Eruption in the Canyon

[Nitro Express]

Roth did sue Van Halen in 2002 based on the restructuring of royalties they negotiated in 1996 with Warner Bros... None of the details of that restructure ever became public though, because Roth dropped the suit without cause sometime later. But at the time, Mike was still very much part of the Van Halen camp and I recall Dave complaining about the Bassplayer™ getting more for songs Dave wrote...

Ah the whole Van Halen thing has been ego, alcohol and drug fueled dysfunction for a very long time. Ted Templeman said he had a hell of a time getting 1984 out. Don Landee even cracked up due to spending too much time with Eddie at 5150. Anyways we enjoyed the unique sonic exploits produced by a madman in his mountain laboratory. So far nobody has been killed but plenty have been screwed over. Only the hangers on and Uber hardcore Fans give a ratt’s ass anymore.

[Nitro Express]

Regarding writing credits:

Do the drum parts compose themselves? No, it was Alex.

And what about the rehearsal efforts? The songs don't compose themselves just on paper and then magically appear on tape.

Al and Mike obviously put in huge amounts of time and rehearsal for the songs to materialize. So why wouldn't they get writing credits?

And it's probable they also contributed ideas and bits and pieces. Listen to MA on the bass. I doubt EVH wrote every note. MA was clearly throwing in his own chops here and there.

If anything, DLR got short changed. He was the primary composer.

You get what you negotiate for. If Dave isn’t getting the royalties he could get it’s because he was a shitty negotiator.

[Nitro Express]

That whole 2000 to early 2007 period was just as you said...sad. Sad to see. Obviously, I wouldn't wish cancer on anybody, nor would I make a 'whatever' comment about a longtime smoker getting it (as in 'whatever, so and so smoked cigarettes and now has cancer, thus fuck him because he deserves what he got'). But as the early 2000s started unwinding, one looked at Ed's general appearance and fucked-up demeanor and - cancer to one side - couldn't help but think Ed was doing all of this to himself in terms of the booze and the (assumed) drug use, neither of which a reasonable person would conclude would be helpful if Ed already had issues with cancer.

Ed's lifestyle was fucking him up to the point where he couldn't even play the older Van Halen material well, never mind any hopes of some cool new tunes being forthcoming. Even that first reunion tour with Roth, Ed was struggling throughout the tour with the basic mechanics of playing the set in terms of his technique and execution. As a fan, it was nice to see Ed pull himself together by the time ADKOT rolled around and remaster that old CVH stuff, but also wistful in a way that Ed had fucked himself up so bad that it took a concerted effort for him to straighten himself up to the point where he was able to decently reproduce old licks live again.

I know revenge when I see it. The guy has more orders than books to sell. It’s called smear Ed and get hopefully what he owes you plus more. People love dirt.

[Nitro Express]

But as Monk made clear in his book, Roth was at least as much of a prick to Mike than the sis'. I recall his issue being the mentioned here, why was Alex getting a cut of Roth's percentages then?

Ha! I bet Mike is selling more sauce than Dave is selling lotion.

[Nickdfresh]

You get what you negotiate for. If Dave isn’t getting the royalties he could get it’s because he was a shitty negotiator.

You don't fucking know that! Dave could have negotiated a sweetheart deal, and they could have fucked him since they had control of the name...

[Nickdfresh]

Ha! I bet Mike is selling more sauce than Dave is selling lotion.

Who the fuck knows. I've never seen either...

[Terry]

Regarding writing credits:

Do the drum parts compose themselves? No, it was Alex.

And what about the rehearsal efforts? The songs don't compose themselves just on paper and then magically appear on tape.

Al and Mike obviously put in huge amounts of time and rehearsal for the songs to materialize. So why wouldn't they get writing credits?

And it's probable they also contributed ideas and bits and pieces. Listen to MA on the bass. I doubt EVH wrote every note. MA was clearly throwing in his own chops here and there.

If anything, DLR got short changed. He was the primary composer.

DLR was the primary composer?

I'd tend to think he, along with Templeman, was one of the primary arrangers.

I'd agree that the songs (obviously) don't compose themselves solely on paper and then magically appear on tape, and far as I can remember I didn't allude to that being the case.

I'd agree in assuming that Al and Mike both put in their fair share of rehearsal time, both during the album pre-production process and the tour rehearsals. Wasn't there myself, but that seems logical. Far as I'm concerned, it took all four members to make CVH work, so it would seem only fitting that all four got writing credits.

[Terry]

The greedy little manager is clearly a woman scorned. If you read his book, did you notice that several times he states "I never stole any money" (paraphrase), and yet he never said anything about being accused by anyone of anything illicit.

Al is a bona fide prick, but maybe there is a reason he took the manager to the accountant for an interrogation, soon after which he was fired.

I wasn't there, and you weren't there. Don't take his word at face value.

He is a woman scorned.

Furthermore, in Sammy's book, he states that the brothers stripped MA of his royalties. Well if MA was stripped of royalties in 1984, how did he get stripped again after Ed Leffler died?

Inconsistencies all around.

I was under the impression that Hagar was referring to the Van Halens in the early 1990s whittling down Mike's percentage even more than it already had been prior to Hagar joining in 1985, including Mike's cut of the touring proceeds.

Far as Monk goes, I wouldn't necessarily take his word (or Roth's, or Eddie's, or Al's, or Hagar's) as the whole truth and nothing but the truth on any given CVH topic: you take what all of them have said (or haven't said) and somewhere in-between all of that one assumes the truth can be found. Far as Rashomon- style inconsistencies between the various takes, I think it was T.S. Eliot who said something along the lines of in-between the Idea and Reality lies the Shadow: who the fuck knows what really happened re: CVH and the behind-the-scenes stuff? I'd even go so far as to say the principals involved might have trouble these days remembering events of 40 years ago accurately: time and memory can play tricks on us all.

[Terry]

I know revenge when I see it. The guy has more orders than books to sell. It’s called smear Ed and get hopefully what he owes you plus more. People love dirt.

To be sure, people love dirt. Can't say I'm above schadenfreude, either. Whatever this guy's motivations - and I'd tend to think you are correct with the profit/revenge angle - I can't say for myself, as a fan of Ed's playing and what it meant to me, that I'd particularly want an in-depth look at the years 2000 through 2006 re: EVH. Just having seen the pics of him during that period and the clips of the 2004 tour the first time around was depressing enough, partly because Ed was spiraling downward and seemingly not giving a shit about it, and partly (and selfishly on my part, I'll freely admit) because the whole period of 1997 through 2007 was a wasted decade where Ed could have been working with Dave and possibly coming up with stuff I actually wanted to hear vs. an album with Cherone, a tour with Cherone, some new Van Hagar tracks, a tour with Hagar and some EVH Trans-Trem Super Sustainer guitar wanking for a porn flick.

But, all of that is spilt milk under the bridge. I eventually got the tour(s) with Dave I had wanted to see for ages, and a Van Halen album with Dave. Both of which amounted to an at times good coda to the CVH era. Wasn't the CVH reunion I wanted to see, and ADKOT was hardly a killer Van Halen album from start-to-finish, but you take what you can get, I suppose. Or not if it doesn't move you.

[Nitro Express]

You don't fucking know that! Dave could have negotiated a sweetheart deal, and they could have fucked him since they had control of the name...

Dave wrote the lyrics. He’s entitled to the publishing money. Ted Templeman said Dave made a huge mistake not negotiating for more but VH went for a four way split.

[Nitro Express]

Who the fuck knows. I've never seen either...

Mikes hot mustard sauce is great. Very hot but perfect if you cut it with some mayo. You can get it on Amazon now.

[Nitro Express]

DLR was the primary composer?

I'd tend to think he, along with Templeman, was one of the primary arrangers.

I'd agree that the songs (obviously) don't compose themselves solely on paper and then magically appear on tape, and far as I can remember I didn't allude to that being the case.

I'd agree in assuming that Al and Mike both put in their fair share of rehearsal time, both during the album pre-production process and the tour rehearsals. Wasn't there myself, but that seems logical. Far as I'm concerned, it took all four members to make CVH work, so it would seem only fitting that all four got writing credits.

Dave writes the lyrics himself. In the music business lyrics are worth a lot. Dave is great at writing lyrics in fact he could make a good living doing just that. Writing lyrics is Dave’s biggest talent.

[Nitro Express]

To be sure, people love dirt. Can't say I'm above schadenfreude, either. Whatever this guy's motivations - and I'd tend to think you are correct with the profit/revenge angle - I can't say for myself, as a fan of Ed's playing and what it meant to me, that I'd particularly want an in-depth look at the years 2000 through 2006 re: EVH. Just having seen the pics of him during that period and the clips of the 2004 tour the first time around was depressing enough, partly because Ed was spiraling downward and seemingly not giving a shit about it, and partly (and selfishly on my part, I'll freely admit) because the whole period of 1997 through 2007 was a wasted decade where Ed could have been working with Dave and possibly coming up with stuff I actually wanted to hear vs. an album with Cherone, a tour with Cherone, some new Van Hagar tracks, a tour with Hagar and some EVH Trans-Trem Super Sustainer guitar wanking for a porn flick.

But, all of that is spilt milk under the bridge. I eventually got the tour(s) with Dave I had wanted to see for ages, and a Van Halen album with Dave. Both of which amounted to an at times good coda to the CVH era. Wasn't the CVH reunion I wanted to see, and ADKOT was hardly a killer Van Halen album from start-to-finish, but you take what you can get, I suppose. Or not if it doesn't move you.

Ed is an eccentric artist with a drinking and drug problem. He’s had problems for a long long time. He just went off the deep end when Valerie left him and I give her credit staying with him as long as she did. You are not really dealing with a guy who is capable of producing albums and tours on a steady basis. He’s kind of mind fucked and not with reality and he holes up in that studio where he rules the world and everything is in his terms. Not the best productive situation.

[Nickdfresh]

The greedy little manager is clearly a woman scorned. If you read his book, did you notice that several times he states "I never stole any money" (paraphrase), and yet he never said anything about being accused by anyone of anything illicit.

What pages?

Al is a bona fide prick, but maybe there is a reason he took the manager to the accountant for an interrogation, soon after which he was fired.

I wasn't there, and you weren't there. Don't take his word at face value.

He is a woman scorned.

Al was a full blown drunk as well as coke user, he was probably blowing the money he was concerned about himself...

Furthermore, in Sammy's book, he states that the brothers stripped MA of his royalties. Well if MA was stripped of royalties in 1984, how did he get stripped again after Ed Leffler died?

Inconsistencies all around.

Sam is full of shit...

[Nickdfresh]

Regarding writing credits:

Do the drum parts compose themselves? No, it was Alex.

And what about the rehearsal efforts? The songs don't compose themselves just on paper and then magically appear on tape.
...

How many song credits did Keith Moon or John Bonham have?