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Thread: What happened when David Lee Roth took over Van Halen

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    What happened when David Lee Roth took over Van Halen

    A not hugely positive story by the legendary UK journalist Malcolm Dome resurrected on the Classic Rock website yesterday.

    https://www.loudersound.com/features...ver-van-halen?

    What happened when David Lee Roth took over Van Halen

    By Malcolm Dome (Classic Rock) a day ago


    It's backstage in Vancouver in 1984, and David Lee Roth is having the time of his life. The other band members? Not so much






    It was Vancouver, May 1984, and Van Halen were in town. One of the biggest bands in the world; their commercial powers, it would seem, having reached hitherto uncharted heights. A moment in history. Yet also a somewhat surprising turning point: not so much the triumph of a band as the dominance of an individual. It was here that I first realised Van Halen simply could not go forward as they were, because David Lee Roth was effortlessly casting a giant shadow over their future.

    I was in town to spend some time in the studio with Swiss cuckoos Krokus as they worked with producer Bruce Fairbairn on new album The Blitz. I was on assignment (how professional) for Kerrang!, which of itself meant there was a problem when the Krokus caucus mentioned that we were all going to see Van Halen on May 1 at the Pacific Coliseum.

    Why? Kerrang! had just published a gossipy, throwaway story of David Lee Roth’s alleged antics with Alex Van Halen’s wife on the latter’s wedding night, and how Eddie Van Halen had mistakenly thought we’d been referring to shenanigans between Diamond Dave and his own wife, and… well, the whole thing got messy, leading to reports reaching then Kerrang! editor Geoff Barton that any Van Halen welcome for Kerrang! could certainly be warm – too warm!

    So I shuffled along to the show, disguised in the office executive beard and shades, hoping the ‘K’ word wouldn’t pass anyone’s lips in the wrong company. But by the end of the night, that was the last thing on my mind. I was simply stunned by two things: firstly, the astonishing, hysterical reaction Van Halen received from 20,000 crazy Canadians. And, secondly, how Van Halen live had become the all-singing, all-dancing David Lee Roth circus.

    On stage, Diamond Dave dominated, as the other band members shrank ever more into the background. Part Chaplin, part Nureyev, part Elvis, part Bugs Bunny, Roth left everyone dumbfounded with his charisma, control, energy and nerve.

    It was, I mumbled to Krokus vocalist Marc Storace, as if we’d just witnessed a Dave Lee Roth solo performance. We were heading backstage at the time, both of us all too aware that walls have ears, as do attentive security hogs, so we were careful not to voice such opinions too vociferously for fear of upsetting the Van Halen brothers and bassist Michael Anthony, the other three quarters of the band who, that fateful evening, seemed to represent only about 20 per cent of the whole.

    But if what had paraded on stage was effectively an ersatz band, that was nothing when compared to the sight that greeted us backstage. In what had been designated a ‘party zone’, Roth had set up speakers in each corner of the room and was acting as MC, DJ, barman and general bon viveur.

    Roth chose the music – which proved to be a broad cross-section of sounds old and new – and was loudly demanding everyone’s attention. Scantily-clad young ladies flossed in and out of the room; if they were lucky they got a few precious seconds of the Diamond’s attention, before being whisked off into a far-flung corner.


    Drinks were flowing at a frightening rate, with bottles of Jack Daniel’s being knocked back as if a flotilla of thirsty vampires had just discovered bourbon was a damned sight better for the complexion than rhesus negative. And through it all, Roth simply did what he did (what he does?) best: commandeered the spotlight. The man was an in-your-face persona on stilts in a room full of shy, retiring metaphorical dwarves.

    So far, so predictable. But this was far from a happy camp. Drummer Alex Van Halen wasn’t anywhere to be seen; he never even made a fleeting diplomatic appearance. Michael Anthony came into the room for all of 30 seconds, flashing a smile that was about as sunny as Bolton on a January afternoon. And Eddie Van Halen sat in one corner, huddled over a drink of indeterminate vintage, while occasionally muttering to band manager Noel Monk.

    Was this really a band that had just taken the mainstream by the seat of its pants and given it a severe hard rocking? Why was it that only Roth looked as if he was having a ball? (And after all, I suppose it was his ball.) After about 45 minutes of watching the Roth cavalcade in full swing, I ambled nonchalantly over (well, as nonchalantly as one can when backstage with a band whose very name dripped with gold and platinum discs) and talked briefly to Eddie Van Halen. The conversation went something like this:

    “Hello Eddie. You must be pleased with tonight’s show?”

    “Yeah.”

    “Great crowd reaction.”

    “Hmmm.”

    “Interesting stage set.”

    Shrug of the shoulders.

    “Are you coming over to tour the UK this time?”

    “Dunno. Depends on the ‘walking ego’…”

    At this point Noel Monk jumped into the conversation, fully aware that the ‘walking ego’ description was aimed in Roth’s direction and anxious to deflect any damage; it was tantamount to washing dirty spandex in a very public situation. But Eddie’s comment was the only time in this rather one-sided ‘chat’ that the guitarist had been anything other than indifferent. And it immediately cemented my belief that here was a band on the verge of a seismic split. Soon after, Eddie made his excuses and left the party.

    Now here’s where it gets a little conspiratorial. By now, only Dave was left to entertain the mixed throng of hangers-on, groupies, record company types, the media and Krokus. Presumably the others had vacated the building? But no.

    Outside in the lengthy corridor that led out of the venue and into reality, four limos were lined up, one for each member of Van Halen. I’d wandered out into this area looking for a loo, and surmised with a keen sense of deduction that, as the cars were still there the other members of the band must still on the premises. So where were they? And was it possible they were having a clandestine meeting sans DLR, because they’d reached the end of their tether with the singer?

    I don’t pretend to know the answer, but the vibe from Eddie Van Halen suggested that Vancouver had proved to be a turning point in the band’s relationship with Roth. Did the vocalist care? Not a bit. Back in the ‘party zone’ he seemed oblivious to any cloak-and-dagger tactics possibly being adopted by the others. And if anyone thought he was just a mouthy buffoon stewing in his own arrogance, then they were badly underestimating him.

    With hindsight, it was clear that Roth had already marked out those members of the Van Halen circle he believed he could trust and who would form part of his inner enclave. Bodyguards, assistants, roadies… the ones with him that night who weren’t treating him as the singer with Van Halen but as David Lee Roth, a circus ringmaster supreme. Whether deliberately or not, Roth was definitely making moves toward separating himself from the Van Halen pack.

    As had been the case ever since the band first burst on the scene some six years previously, Roth was the man making decisions. And if the lifespan of Van Halen with him at the helm was about to expire, then that was because he’d decided to move on. Of course, as we all know, the 1984 album and tour was to be the band’s last with Roth. He used his subsequent debut solo record, the Crazy From The Heat EP, to distance himself from the mothership and go out on his own, looking to further his career both as musician and entertainer.


    For a while Roth totally outflanked his erstwhile bandmates, as his garish videos and mega-watt personality promised to launch him on Hollywood.

    The rest is history, and chronicles a steady decline for the man who would, and should, have been king of all he surveyed. But failure was definitely not on the menu back in that May day so long ago. Back in that Vancouver ‘party room’ Roth didn’t so much as grab your attention as grab it, shake it up and then toss it aside in favour of another plaything. But then that was David Lee Roth: a man who never entered a room when he could gust through it like a tornado that never blew itself out.

    And be sure of one thing, if my retrospective theorising about the state of Van Halen back then is correct: it was Dave who manipulated the situation, not the others. Yes, it was Roth’s game. He decided when it was time to change the rules.

    This feature originally appeared in Classic Rock 64, in February 2004.
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    Dave was the ideal frontman for Van Halen's music on stage: unbeatably entertaining, flashy, hilarious, spectacular... Anyway, he was part of the music too.

    I don't know why at some point Dave's dominance became such a burden for the Brothers. How would Dave have not taken control, given the room they left him?
    That "LSD - Lead Singer Disease" - Eddie would talk about later was another way of describing his own frustration of being unable of leading the ban himelf, due to his introverted self.
    Dave never caught that so-called "disease" as he'd always been that way. It was nothing new.

    David Lee Roth was effortlessly casting a giant shadow over their future
    The Brothers thought the future of the band was for them to become Dave's shadow men, maybe.

    Maybe Dave had views for the band that didn't suit them, too. Or even Dave had already talked to them about his intentions of launching a solo act, which pissed them off... I think it's the case, correctme if I'm wrong.

    As for "ego", I think Ed and Al both have a very big one too, but the difference is they both keep it inside unexpressed. And get jealous and sour.

    Unfortunately, the 1985 split was just inevitable, if things were as they are described in the tale above.
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    I read this article and thought about posting it as well. But the last post-date of 2004 I found very suspicious, as if it were a defense of the Tour of 2004. He has some points, no doubt Dave was a megalomaniac with a vision of being as big as The Beatles and Stones, and I'm sure he was a pain in the ass. But the Halen's leading a band was a road to nowhere, as evidenced by their pre-Dave days where they just stood there and played. And unlike Monk, Dome probably wasn't as privy to, or wouldn't say if he was, the level of drug and alcohol abuse going on exacerbating a lot of the issues by 1983. Dave maybe hogging limelight was one thing, but Ed and Al retreating into a bottle and spoon in their hotel rooms was another...
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    Reminded me of a UK TV documentary roughly around the same time in 2001 which went through the Top 10 Greatest Stadium Rock Bands - I think Van Halen came in at around #4. All the talking heads were like Dome, Kerrang journalists back in the day.

    Watch for the energy drop as Hagar appears singing Jump.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    Reminded me of a UK TV documentary roughly around the same time in 2001 which went through the Top 10 Greatest Stadium Rock Bands - I think Van Halen came in at around #4. All the talking heads were like Dome, Kerrang journalists back in the day.

    Watch for the energy drop as Hagar appears singing Jump.


    Least far as the US was concerned, Van Halen hadn't really become a Stadium Rock Band by the time Roth left, if one is defining a Stadium Rock Band narrowly as a group that can sell out stadiums - am thinking football stadiums with 50,000 + capacity - on the strength of their name alone. Van Halen had played stadium gigs earlier in their career with Roth at the bottom half of the bill, headlined the US Festival at the top of the bill, did Donnington in 1984 and did the 1983 South American tour of football (soccer) stadiums). None of that is the same as Van Halen within the continental US doing 50,000 + American football stadiums as a headlining act.

    I think the next US tour following 1984 had Roth stayed in the band WOULD have been the first with Van Halen as a proper US Stadium Rock act, with the band name alone having the drawing power of the Rolling Stones or The Who or other such bands who by the mid-1980s could fill a US football stadium just by announcing a date there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    I read this article and thought about posting it as well. But the last post-date of 2004 I found very suspicious, as if it were a defense of the Tour of 2004. He has some points, no doubt Dave was a megalomaniac with a vision of being as big as The Beatles and Stones, and I'm sure he was a pain in the ass. But the Halen's leading a band was a road to nowhere, as evidenced by their pre-Dave days where they just stood there and played. And unlike Monk, Dome probably wasn't as privy to, or wouldn't say if he was, the level of drug and alcohol abuse going on exacerbating a lot of the issues by 1983. Dave maybe hogging limelight was one thing, but Ed and Al retreating into a bottle and spoon in their hotel rooms was another...
    Left 100% in control and totally to their own devices, when the Van Halens took complete control of the band we got Gary Cherone/Van Halen III for our troubles, followed years later with a Hagar tour, a few Roth tours, an album made up half of warmed over leftovers, a live album nobody particularly asked for, and a bunch of EVH logo guitar gear. Keeping in mind that with the 1996 debacle and Van Halen III, Ed was ostensibly sober for that period, so one can't blame THAT total misreading of their fanbase on Ed's sobriety (or lack thereof).

    Simply put, when in complete control, Ed and Al made a bunch of bad decisions. The choice to go with Roth in 2007-2015 wasn't so much a decision as it was a case of exhausting all their other bad choices and being unable to keep making them a third time around come 2006. And had Wolfgang not pushed the button on the Roth option in late 2006, doubtless the Van Halen brothers would have hemmed and hawed over doing it themselves for who knows how long?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Least far as the US was concerned, Van Halen hadn't really become a Stadium Rock Band by the time Roth left, if one is defining a Stadium Rock Band narrowly as a group that can sell out stadiums - am thinking football stadiums with 50,000 + capacity - on the strength of their name alone. Van Halen had played stadium gigs earlier in their career with Roth at the bottom half of the bill, headlined the US Festival at the top of the bill, did Donnington in 1984 and did the 1983 South American tour of football (soccer) stadiums). None of that is the same as Van Halen within the continental US doing 50,000 + American football stadiums as a headlining act.

    I think the next US tour following 1984 had Roth stayed in the band WOULD have been the first with Van Halen as a proper US Stadium Rock act, with the band name alone having the drawing power of the Rolling Stones or The Who or other such bands who by the mid-1980s could fill a US football stadium just by announcing a date there.
    It was a kind of funny genre name that seemed to be made up for the show but it did kind of make sense. It was more about big rock rather than bands that actually routinely toured playing stadiums. It was more big heavy rock bands who had at times played stadiums but didn't tour them all the time.

    Had a quick look and the top 5 were

    5 Bon Jovi
    4 GNR
    3 Van Halen
    2 Metallica
    1 Aerosmith

    So not U2, Rolling Stones, The Who, ACDC, Pink Floyd or Foo Fighters who off the top of my head would make more sense as being the top 5 rock bands you might see in a stadium... and most would have been back in 20 years too...
    Last edited by Seshmeister; 05-25-2020 at 08:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    It was a kind of funny genre name that seemed to be made up for the show but it did kind of make sense. It was more about big rock rather than bands that actually routinely toured playing stadiums. It was more big heavy rock bands who had at times played stadiums but didn't tour them all the time.

    Had a quick look and the top 5 were

    Bon Jovi
    GNR
    Van Halen
    Metallica
    Aerosmith

    So not U2, Rolling Stones, The Who, ACDC, Pink Floyd or Foo Fighters who off the top of my head would make more sense as being the top 5 rock bands you might see in a stadium... and most would have been back in 20 years too...
    Admittedly I was being very specific in terms of the definition.

    As you say, though, at least going back to the 1980s and strictly in terms of the United States, I'd certainly put U2, The Rolling Stones, The Who and Pink Floyd as bands who could (and did) regularly play and fill stadiums on the strength of their name alone.

    Van Halen and Metallica did the Monsters Of Rock stadium tour in 1988, but that was a multi-band bill. I don't think Metallica became a stadium act proper until after the Black Album was released in 1991. Perhaps ditto for G n R with the Use Your Illusions albums in 1991.

    Bon Jovi I believe headlined Donnington in the late 1980s as well as the Moscow hard rock whatever the fuck it was in...1989(?). But I don't remember Bon Jovi headlining stadiums in the US in the 1980s.

    Aerosmith had did (if I remember correctly) the Texas and California Jams in the late 1970s. Most of the 1980s for Aerosmith were arenas until 1987/Permanent Vacation, and I don't remember even after Pump came out in 1989 that Aerosmith was headlining stadiums in the US.

    By the time the 1990s rolled around, obviously Metallica, G n R, Bon Jovi (and maybe Aerosmith) could (and in most cases did) fill stadiums stateside.

    AC/DC I know played massive venues in Europe. I don't recall them filling stadiums in the US in the 1980s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    I read this article and thought about posting it as well. But the last post-date of 2004 I found very suspicious, as if it were a defense of the Tour of 2004. He has some points, no doubt Dave was a megalomaniac with a vision of being as big as The Beatles and Stones, and I'm sure he was a pain in the ass. But the Halen's leading a band was a road to nowhere, as evidenced by their pre-Dave days where they just stood there and played. And unlike Monk, Dome probably wasn't as privy to, or wouldn't say if he was, the level of drug and alcohol abuse going on exacerbating a lot of the issues by 1983. Dave maybe hogging limelight was one thing, but Ed and Al retreating into a bottle and spoon in their hotel rooms was another...
    Far as I can gather/guess, by the time 1985 dawned, Dave was hitting his career peak in terms of pop culture relevance. His CFTH ep came out, the promo videos for that were in hyperdrive on MTV rotation. His name was splashed all over various media formats as much as Van Halen's was at that point. It probably was a case of Dave just saying fuck it in terms of dealing with the Van Halens at that point: by all accounts the making of the 1984 album was pretty fractured in terms of the creative process, and Roth and the Van Halens were barely communicating offstage during the tour. The rehearsals for the follow-up album to 1984 weren't going well, and the synth direction Ed was heading toward wasn't one Dave was enthused about.

    As for Ed, come early 1985 he was being raved about as THE rock guitarist in every guitar mag, rock music mag, etc. More than a few of those mags had a slant in their articles that intimated Ed's talent was somewhat compromised from being limited to Van Halen's Party Rock style, of which Roth was the obvious proponent in terms of image. The general critical consensus was that Roth was a showoff clown who couldn't sing worth a shit. Little of this was expressed with that degree of clarity, but the intimations were impossible to miss. I think to a degree Ed bought into all of that, and didn't particularly care for the looney promo videos, or the massive stage productions or being told what to do anymore by Roth, Templeman and Monk.

    Add to all of that the conventional wisdom, expressed by both Roth and Eddie at various points over the years, that Dave and the Van Halens didn't particularly LIKE each other (and that neither of the Van Halens ever really thought Roth was that great of a singer) going as far back as the backyard party/high school auditorium/club days...THEN throw in massive success/drugs/alcohol/ego on top of all of the rest of it...eventually, it all came to a head, and Roth and the Van Halens reached their breaking point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Far as I can gather/guess, by the time 1985 dawned, Dave was hitting his career peak in terms of pop culture relevance. His CFTH ep came out, the promo videos for that were in hyperdrive on MTV rotation. His name was splashed all over various media formats as much as Van Halen's was at that point. It probably was a case of Dave just saying fuck it in terms of dealing with the Van Halens at that point: by all accounts the making of the 1984 album was pretty fractured in terms of the creative process, and Roth and the Van Halens were barely communicating offstage during the tour. The rehearsals for the follow-up album to 1984 weren't going well, and the synth direction Ed was heading toward wasn't one Dave was enthused about.

    As for Ed, come early 1985 he was being raved about as THE rock guitarist in every guitar mag, rock music mag, etc. More than a few of those mags had a slant in their articles that intimated Ed's talent was somewhat compromised from being limited to Van Halen's Party Rock style, of which Roth was the obvious proponent in terms of image. The general critical consensus was that Roth was a showoff clown who couldn't sing worth a shit. Little of this was expressed with that degree of clarity, but the intimations were impossible to miss. I think to a degree Ed bought into all of that, and didn't particularly care for the looney promo videos, or the massive stage productions or being told what to do anymore by Roth, Templeman and Monk.

    Add to all of that the conventional wisdom, expressed by both Roth and Eddie at various points over the years, that Dave and the Van Halens didn't particularly LIKE each other (and that neither of the Van Halens ever really thought Roth was that great of a singer) going as far back as the backyard party/high school auditorium/club days...THEN throw in massive success/drugs/alcohol/ego on top of all of the rest of it...eventually, it all came to a head, and Roth and the Van Halens reached their breaking point.
    Once Dave's CFTH ran its course, VH should've went into an extended break. No studio work until late 1985 or early 1986.

    They needed time away from each other. And if Monk was to be gone, they needed a new manager who could manage the band's personalities in a way to make everyone think that despite creative differences, they were better together than apart.

    The Stones, Queen, etc all went through that sort of thing but kept it together. There was no reason VH could not have done the same.

    And I agree, a new Roth fronted VH album, true follow-up to 1984 by 86 or 87 would've made them stadium giants like other bands of the time.

    But that was not to be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    It was a kind of funny genre name that seemed to be made up for the show but it did kind of make sense. It was more about big rock rather than bands that actually routinely toured playing stadiums. It was more big heavy rock bands who had at times played stadiums but didn't tour them all the time.

    Had a quick look and the top 5 were

    5 Bon Jovi
    4 GNR
    3 Van Halen
    2 Metallica
    1 Aerosmith

    So not U2, Rolling Stones, The Who, ACDC, Pink Floyd or Foo Fighters who off the top of my head would make more sense as being the top 5 rock bands you might see in a stadium... and most would have been back in 20 years too...
    I think you missed one significant band that pretty much set the bar for headlining stadium tours... ZZ Top and their Worldwide Texas Tour the ran from May 1976 thru Dec 1977.

    In addition to the usual music and lights... they featured live vultures, rattlesnakes, buffalo and Texas long-horn cattle. Opening acts included: Lynyrd Skynyrd, Marshall Tucker Band, Blue Öyster Cult, Ted Nugent, Aerosmith, Styx, Santana, and many others.

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    As I said not my list, from a 2001 UK TV show. It's easy to forget how huge ZZ Top were/are but maybe a little off the radar for a UK TV show as they didn't play Europe that much as I remember. Then again neither did Van Halen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    Reminded me of a UK TV documentary roughly around the same time in 2001 which went through the Top 10 Greatest Stadium Rock Bands - I think Van Halen came in at around #4. All the talking heads were like Dome, Kerrang journalists back in the day.

    Watch for the energy drop as Hagar appears singing Jump.


    At 4:53, did he just say "Bette Midler look-alike, Sammy Hagar, replaced him."?

    HA!!!
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