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Thread: Wolfy Talks Vaults

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    I wondered about this when I was editing the video of their last show. Suddenly all the beach balls appeared.


    https://blabbermouth.net/news/wolfga...show/#comments

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    Wolfgang seems understandably opposed to anyone using his father's death to take advantage of releasing material... I get that... but I also have to ask... At what point does the posthumous release no longer represent "taking advantage" of the artist's death or a "cash grab"??

    Not saying give it away... but sharing the magic of this man's music with the millions of those he's already connected and many more who may discover this amazing work... at some point it becomes a gift worth sharing beyond an income stream... When will that be..?

    For the music to live on... it has to be heard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZahZoo View Post
    Wolfgang seems understandably opposed to anyone using his father's death to take advantage of releasing material... I get that... but I also have to ask... At what point does the posthumous release no longer represent "taking advantage" of the artist's death or a "cash grab"??

    Not saying give it away... but sharing the magic of this man's music with the millions of those he's already connected and many more who may discover this amazing work... at some point it becomes a gift worth sharing beyond an income stream... When will that be..?

    For the music to live on... it has to be heard.
    Agreed.

    I think Wolf may be just a little frustrated over all this attention paid to his dad's band which of course is over and done with.

    While he's trying to push his thing.
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    I'm sure it's somewhat of a callused thing to say in the face of such a huge loss, such as a parent, but... opportunity in the entertainment industry comes and goes really quickly. Even more rapidly with today's pace and microsecond attention spans...

    I hope Wolfgang pushes his thing and goes all out soon. The current events have captured global attention. That won't have a long shelf life...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZahZoo View Post
    Wolfgang seems understandably opposed to anyone using his father's death to take advantage of releasing material... I get that... but I also have to ask... At what point does the posthumous release no longer represent "taking advantage" of the artist's death or a "cash grab"??

    Not saying give it away... but sharing the magic of this man's music with the millions of those he's already connected and many more who may discover this amazing work... at some point it becomes a gift worth sharing beyond an income stream... When will that be..?

    For the music to live on... it has to be heard.
    In general terms, I'd agree with all of that.

    I can see Wolfgang's point from his perspective re: releasing the stuff within several months after Ed has just passed would - from where Wolfgang stands - reek of opportunism or a cash grab.

    However, my own personal feeling is that whatever vault stuff which would be worth releasing should have been put out at some point during Roth's 2nd tenure with the band. Perhaps not in 2012 when the band were promoting ADKOT, but certainly in 2015 when they were basically touring as a nostalgia act anyway and not promoting a follow-up new album to ADKOT.

    The fact of the matter is the band had nearly a decade re: Roth's 2nd tenure to prepare such a release, so it's not like they were ever under the gun, time-wise...

    Any prospective vault release is, by this point, so ridiculously overdue that my interest steadily wanes with each passing year.
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    But, at least Wolfgang is being forthright enough to straight out say any fans hoping for such a release shouldn't be hoping for anything soon (if ever).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZahZoo View Post
    Wolfgang seems understandably opposed to anyone using his father's death to take advantage of releasing material... I get that... but I also have to ask... At what point does the posthumous release no longer represent "taking advantage" of the artist's death or a "cash grab"??

    Not saying give it away... but sharing the magic of this man's music with the millions of those he's already connected and many more who may discover this amazing work... at some point it becomes a gift worth sharing beyond an income stream... When will that be..?

    For the music to live on... it has to be heard.
    The guy is still dealing with his dad passing away. I think heís keeping himself busy as part of the process of dealing with it. Who knows what will happen to that huge stash of tapes. Apparently non of it is cataloged or organized and probably a lot of it is random noodling.

    Life goes on. Maybe some of that will come out or Wolfgang gets too busy doing other things and it sits there like most peopleís old home movies and pictures do. I think itís safe to say the best stuff went out on the albums. There might not be anything all that mind blowing in the vault.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    But, at least Wolfgang is being forthright enough to straight out say any fans hoping for such a release shouldn't be hoping for anything soon (if ever).
    How many slides, home movies or photos do you have laying around that you said you would organize or transform to a digital format? Some people love to organize stuff like that and share it. Others never get to it. Those people tend to be the types that like to scrapbook or keep journals. I doubt we will see any of it.

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    If there were a vault release just now does that mean that it could only happen over Ed's dead body?

    It's like the Prince thing, great he's dead so now we get that music he didn't want to release?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZahZoo View Post
    I'm sure it's somewhat of a callused thing to say in the face of such a huge loss, such as a parent, but... opportunity in the entertainment industry comes and goes really quickly. Even more rapidly with today's pace and microsecond attention spans...

    I hope Wolfgang pushes his thing and goes all out soon. The current events have captured global attention. That won't have a long shelf life...
    EVH is a big enough legend that anything of his will stay collectible for a long time. Look at Jimi Hendrix. People would go ape for unheard Hendrix stuff from a vault never before heard.

    Wolfgang doesn’t need the money. He seems to be more into doing his own thing. In fact he said his dad would be pissed at him for focusing on his dad’s stuff and not his own. Plus he might not want to go digging through his dad’s stuff. That can be very painful after a loss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    If there were a vault release just now does that mean that it could only happen over Ed's dead body?

    It's like the Prince thing, great he's dead so now we get that music he didn't want to release?
    I remember Ed talking about those tapes at 5150. Much of it isn’t completed songs. A lot of it is him just playing and recording himself to capture ideas. Maybe with Al keeping a beat on some of it. I’m sure there are some completed songs too but it’s probably a hodge podge of stuff. One thing for sure, none of it is going to come out anytime soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie Velvet View Post
    Agreed.

    I think Wolf may be just a little frustrated over all this attention paid to his dad's band which of course is over and done with.

    While he's trying to push his thing.
    I think the reality is that his father's work is really not his if one is being honest and further more all those fans who really loved what his father did are not getting any younger and if anything Ed's death should be a cue to share what one can when we can
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetstream View Post
    I think the reality is that his father's work is really not his if one is being honest and further more all those fans who really loved what his father did are not getting any younger and if anything Ed's death should be a cue to share what one can when we can
    Wolfgang said his dadís stuff is his now. Sounds like Ed had good lawyers and really had things set up well. I think Jani lives in another house and the lot with 5150 is Wolgangís. Then Wolfgang and Matt Bruck are going to run EVH Gear together.

    Wolfgang said he would have to have his Uncle Al with him as he goes through the shelves of tapes at 5150 because Al would remember things because both him and Ed jammed on a lot of it. I guess some of it was cataloged on an old Radio Shack computer and the disk got wiped. They took it to professionals to see if the data could be recovered but no luck. So there is no record of whatís on the tapes.

    One factor that might make Wolfgang go through the tapes sooner is he needs Al to help him. Al was a heavy smoker like Ed and has had his own health problems. Hate to say it but the chances of losing Al soon are up there because him and Ed were both heavy smokers. That stuff bites you in the ass later in life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    If there were a vault release just now does that mean that it could only happen over Ed's dead body?

    It's like the Prince thing, great he's dead so now we get that music he didn't want to release?
    I think, which is to say I am guessing, it's along the lines of what Nitro said, where a vast bulk of the 5150 vault stuff is largely comprised of audio recordings consisting of Ed playing ideas. Or perhaps guitar and drum jams.

    And as Nitro says, if one looks at Hendrix and the Hendrix posthumous releases, one certainly can't say the absolute bottom of barrel hasn't been scraped several times over in terms of putting out every single bit of audio Hendrix ever recorded that somebody (Alan Douglas, Janie Hendrix, etc.) could get their hands on. All in varying degrees of quality, all in various stages of recording (be it recordings Hendrix did of a private nature to preserve song ideas which were then taken into a studio after his death and had musicians adding parts onto those demos, or tracks that Hendrix had recorded and not mixed or were still awaiting additional overdubs from Hendrix, etc. etc.).

    While avid Hendrix fans clamor for anything, I can't say that as much as I love what Eddie did I'd necessarily want to sit through what must be hundreds of hours of Ed noodling in his home studio, listening to all that stuff trying to separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were.

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    It seems a lot of people assume Ed left everything to Wolfgang... which beyond taking care of his wife, Janie, I would say seems a reasonable assumption for Ed's personal property and the EVH product line.

    But for Ed's share of the Van Halen music business... I have to assume the controlling business interests shift to Alex who has been part of the core since day 1... going back over 45 years. Most likely Wolfgang may inherit a part of his father's interest in the business, but I believe Alex now holds a more predominant role in Van Halen business ownership.

    There's no indication of what Alex's health is today... but he also has two sons and a wife, plus 2 ex's, that stand to inherit Alex's part of the VH empire. Should Alex pass any time soon... that leaves the second generation of Van Halen boys sitting on a musical gold mine.

    Anyone have any idea how close Wolfgang and his cousins Aric and Malcolm are? This scenario could get interesting...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    How many slides, home movies or photos do you have laying around that you said you would organize or transform to a digital format? Some people love to organize stuff like that and share it. Others never get to it. Those people tend to be the types that like to scrapbook or keep journals. I doubt we will see any of it.
    I'd tend to think if we were going to have seen/heard any of that stuff we would have by now, and Ed's passing seemingly hasn't become anything by way of an accelerant to prod the Van Halens into issuing a vault release.

    I mean, there was a five year gap between Van Halen's last tour and Ed's passing. One would have thought that would have been an opportunity to put something together if that was something Eddie wanted to do, keeping in mind that the Van Halens were strategizing scenarios for a 2019 CVH tour - or had at the very least been thinking about a 2019 CVH tour - well into 2018. So one assumes that Ed circa late 2018 still felt well enough to tour at that point.

    I just plain get the feeling Ed never really had a strong desire to put out a vault-based retro release, for whatever reasons.

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    I don't believe Ed had any desire or motivation to put out any of the 5150 vault material... his personal mental position and whatever he deemed quality worthy of sharing was jaded, clouded and steeped in angst towards the fans and his critics...

    But no one knows where Alex sits on all this... a good portion of material in 5150, Alex had a hand in creating. It wasn't all just Ed fucking o around in that studio.

    Now Warner Brother has legal rights to a lot of vault materials from studio recordings to live performance film and audio recordings. They have both the capability and the business means to release that material sooner rather than later... like 4 albums worth that has already been prepped and prepared for release. I'm sure they would want to have a Van Halen family blessing on that stuff... but they also understand market dynamics aren't that favorable sitting on this stuff 5-10 years...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    If there were a vault release just now does that mean that it could only happen over Ed's dead body?

    It's like the Prince thing, great he's dead so now we get that music he didn't want to release?
    I often wonder if Ed was just a relentless perfectionist and never wanted to release live recordings when he didn't have absolute control over the set up or processes or direction. I also wonder how copyright plays into any live recordings like Oakland 1981 or US Fest...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZahZoo View Post
    It seems a lot of people assume Ed left everything to Wolfgang... which beyond taking care of his wife, Janie, I would say seems a reasonable assumption for Ed's personal property and the EVH product line.

    But for Ed's share of the Van Halen music business... I have to assume the controlling business interests shift to Alex who has been part of the core since day 1... going back over 45 years. Most likely Wolfgang may inherit a part of his father's interest in the business, but I believe Alex now holds a more predominant role in Van Halen business ownership.

    There's no indication of what Alex's health is today... but he also has two sons and a wife, plus 2 ex's, that stand to inherit Alex's part of the VH empire. Should Alex pass any time soon... that leaves the second generation of Van Halen boys sitting on a musical gold mine.

    Anyone have any idea how close Wolfgang and his cousins Aric and Malcolm are? This scenario could get interesting...
    I’m just going off of what Wolfgang said. He got his dad’s guitars and him and Matt Bruck are co-managers of EVH Gear. Alex has nothing to do with Ed’s personal property. Business interests are different if Alex is a partner or a share holder. Usually if there are a lot of assets involved you have a prenuptial agreement on marriages. People with big estates have estate planners with specialized lawyers. Very good ones in LA and Ed could afford their services.

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    There's no reason to believe Alex was anything less than a full partner or share holder in Van Halen Inc than Edward...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZahZoo View Post
    I don't believe Ed had any desire or motivation to put out any of the 5150 vault material... his personal mental position and whatever he deemed quality worthy of sharing was jaded, clouded and steeped in angst towards the fans and his critics...

    But no one knows where Alex sits on all this... a good portion of material in 5150, Alex had a hand in creating. It wasn't all just Ed fucking o around in that studio.

    Now Warner Brother has legal rights to a lot of vault materials from studio recordings to live performance film and audio recordings. They have both the capability and the business means to release that material sooner rather than later... like 4 albums worth that has already been prepped and prepared for release. I'm sure they would want to have a Van Halen family blessing on that stuff... but they also understand market dynamics aren't that favorable sitting on this stuff 5-10 years...
    Even when I think of, say, just the concerts filmed by the band - as opposed to the concerts filmed by production companies a la the US Festival - during 1978-1984 for private use/viewing...

    1. Because those concerts contain the band performing songs they recorded while under contract at Warner Brothers, does Warners own the audio portion of those concerts?

    2. Does 'Van Halen' even own their back catalog? Does Warners, or Warner/Chappell music, as administrators of Van Halen's catalog, have the unilateral ability legally to put out 'vault' stuff...referring to the vault stuff which is live renditions of the Van Halen back catalog of studio albums? I dunno...the Tokyo Dome album was released by Warner Brothers, but that was something the band had spearheaded anyway, right?

    3. Was a show like the 1982 Largo concert, which was pro-shot from multiple angles, something that Warner Brothers paid to be filmed at the time, or did Van Halen's management company pay to have it filmed? Who would retain the rights to both the footage and the audio these days? Does Van Halen own the film and only the film and Warners own the audio/music and only the audio/music?

    Seems useless to even sit here pondering this shit...only because it is.

    One would think somebody at Warners would realize in terms of saleability, this stuff isn't gonna retain as high a value as the fan base gets older. One would also tend to think that even if something were to come out in even the next two years, it would probably be something one purchased via downloading as opposed to a tangible, physical dvd or cd.

    Whatever. I got the 6 pack, ADKOT, got the Zero demos and got most of the CVH live footage that has been circulating out there. If nothing else ends up coming out, what I got will do.

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    I believe Warner/Chappell Music owns the master recordings along with all of the live video and audio recordings stored at Pacific Titles archive... includes Oakland 81, Donnington and a ton of other promotional and live recordings. Plus any leftovers, B sides and killing floor materials that went into the whole Van Halen master recording catalog with the exception of ADKOT.

    No idea what contractual release restrictions Warner and Van Halen have worked out as far as what can be released with or without band approval.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZahZoo View Post
    I believe Warner/Chappell Music owns the master recordings along with all of the live video and audio recordings stored at Pacific Titles archive... includes Oakland 81, Donnington and a ton of other promotional and live recordings. Plus any leftovers, B sides and killing floor materials that went into the whole Van Halen master recording catalog with the exception of ADKOT.

    No idea what contractual release restrictions Warner and Van Halen have worked out as far as what can be released with or without band approval.
    Basing what I read in Monk's book, my guess is that is pretty stringent in Van Halen's favor and they can approve or prevent releases. Just a guess...

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    Noone is better at throwing a wet towel on current events than the VH camp.

    I have a feeling that there are no more releases coming from VH for awhile.

    Although, After 5-10 years, without any announcement, they will release half-ass vault release. It will go mostly unnoticed and will be a footnote of the VH catalog.
    Hey Jackass! You need to [Register] or log in to view signatures on ROTHARMY.COM!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsbane View Post
    Noone is better at throwing a wet towel on current events than the VH camp.

    I have a feeling that there are no more releases coming from VH for awhile.

    Although, After 5-10 years, without any announcement, they will release half-ass vault release. It will go mostly unnoticed and will be a footnote of the VH catalog.
    Couldn't agree more. This is the WORST band to be a super fan of. They just do not get it. It looks like Wolfgang will continue that tradition. This is just about the only major band out there that doesn't have an official DVD release of a live show, from their glory days. It will be a travesty for Wolf, Al, Janie, WB, or anyone else making the decisions, to not release material for another 5-10 years. Like I said in another thread, VH fan isn't getting any younger. Ed was 65, not 27 like Hendrix was. I don't understand the mentality of not providing for the fans. Making money off the stuff is just a bonus. Not to mention, if Wolf wants to keep that EVH brand going, releasing material will go a long way to adding to EVH merchandise sales too.

    Wolf really should give Gene Simmons a call. He'd tell him to release everything. Give the fans that fucking made this band as famous as they are, the ability to choose what they want to buy and what they don't.
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    Simmons would have been selling commemorative replica urns for weeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    Simmons would have been selling commemorative replica urns for weeks.
    Fuck yeah! Red, black and white striped ones!

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    Posted on Facebook today by Wolf Van Halen... Filming something Mammoth-y today

    This is in 5150... Here's hoping the vault stuff calls out to him.


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