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Thread: Mammoth WVH Live

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    Mammoth WVH Live

    Wolfgang's first live solo performance from the Kimmel show last nite...

    Great performance! The Kid™ has pipes and can hold his own on guitar. Includes some shots of VH and Uncle Dave in the official video they played behind Mammoth. Good job... promising career for the next gen VH...

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    "You're to Blame" The other song that was debuted on Stern a few weeks ago... plus the Mammoth WVH album cover.

    Solid rockin tune... Impressed with the guitar work on this one.


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    Was that "Live"? It sounded almost too polished to me. If it was live, they killed it.
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    It was live on Kimmel... they fuckin killed it!
    Last edited by ZahZoo; 02-12-2021 at 06:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    Was that "Live"? It sounded almost too polished to me. If it was live, they killed it.
    It could be they have more control of the variables in that small studio space...
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    I recorded it on my DVR, but haven't had a chance to watch and listen to it on my system yet. I'm going to check it out on there. I'm not convinced just from watching it on the computer that it's "live". Super Bowl halftime show "live" maybe, but not really live. I hope I'm wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZahZoo View Post
    "You're to Blame" The other song that was debuted on Stern a few weeks ago... plus the Mammoth WVH album cover.

    Solid rockin tune... Impressed with the guitar work on this one.

    Solid song. If we still had a music industry it probably would get a lot of radio play. What stood out to me is how well everything was mixed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    I recorded it on my DVR, but haven't had a chance to watch and listen to it on my system yet. I'm going to check it out on there. I'm not convinced just from watching it on the computer that it's "live". Super Bowl halftime show "live" maybe, but not really live. I hope I'm wrong.
    Television is a fake medium. Rarely is anything real or live.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    Television is a fake medium. Rarely is anything real or live.
    So, have you watched it? What’s your opinion? Live or Memorex?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    So, have you watched it? What’s your opinion? Live or Memorex?
    I think it was a little of both. They have sophisticated editing and mixing these days. My wife’s nephew works in the business. They can make anyone sound good. I think Wolfgang was live but I think they had a canned track underneath it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    I think it was a little of both. They have sophisticated editing and mixing these days. My wife’s nephew works in the business. They can make anyone sound good. I think Wolfgang was live but I think they had a canned track underneath it.
    Fuck that shit. I can't take any musician seriously that would do that bullshit.

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    The levels of TV miming are

    1) Guitars not plugged in - missing musicians

    2) Drums not miked

    3) Keyboards not plugged in. This one was a good test for years but they routinely now do that too when miming on TV.

    4) Different from the album. This one fooled me for a while until there were 2 identical Ozzy 'live' performances on different TV shows with different vocals and guitar fills from the album proving that sometimes they now go and record a 'live performance' version to air on TV shows.

    My ear isn't good enough to tell if WVH was live there, the two ways to tell are vocals and drum timing but the drummer has an earpiece in which means he could be genuinely playing to a click track if it turns out his timing is too good and I don't know the song well enough to be able to examine the vocals.
    Last edited by Seshmeister; 02-13-2021 at 11:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    Fuck that shit. I can't take any musician seriously that would do that bullshit.

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    Just before the solo the bassist leans in to the mic and sings but it doesn't sound like he's in the mix. So either forgot his cue or Kimmel's crew didn't turn him up.

    Go on Wolf's Twitter and ask, or maybe he'll see this and say "some ASSHOLE says we weren't live!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by twonabomber View Post
    Just before the solo the bassist leans in to the mic and sings but it doesn't sound like he's in the mix. So either forgot his cue or Kimmel's crew didn't turn him up.
    I am suspicious about the backing vocals. There is a bit of defense though that they have that guy at the back with the beard playing extra guitar and singing Foo Fighters style. If they were miming why have the extra guy?

    Double bluff that's why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    Fuck that shit. I can't take any musician seriously that would do that bullshit.
    I attended a bass seminar taught by Jack Casady. Between classes he was answering some questions and one guy goes why was he all wrapped up in a guitar cable on American Bandstand? He said the show wouldn’t let them play live and he was pissed. To protest he wrapped himself up in the guitar cord and threw a stuffed fish on top of the neck of his bass to show what a fraud it was. Ha! Ha!

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    Ha! Ha! Here’s Jack blowing Dick Clark’s scam.
    Last edited by Nitro Express; 02-14-2021 at 04:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    Come on Sesh. You're seriously going to compare this to what these bands try to perpetuate as a "live" performance these days? Do you really believe VH was trying to make ANYONE believe that was a "live" performance?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    The levels of TV miming are

    1) Guitars not plugged in - missing musicians

    2) Drums not miked

    3) Keyboards not plugged in. This one was a good test for years but they routinely now do that too when miming on TV.

    4) Different from the album. This one fooled me for a while until there were 2 identical Ozzy 'live' performances on different TV shows with different vocals and guitar fills from the album proving that sometimes they now go and record a 'live performance' version to air on TV shows.

    My ear isn't good enough to tell if WVH was live there, the two ways to tell are vocals and drum timing but the drummer has an earpiece in which means he could be genuinely playing to a click track if it turns out his timing is too good and I don't know the song well enough to be able to examine the vocals.
    Pretty sure it's a fully live performance with no helping tracks on this one...

    Guitars all cabled, amps on, drums mic'ed... vocals all synced... backing vocals were way back in the mix... timing on the drums was spot on, sound and visual. The guitar lead was spot on with the picking timing and they a had clear close-up shot. Definitely not faked... performed live.

    Now the only thing that's not clear was... was this live when broadcast or a taped live performance. That part only the technical people on the show can verify.

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    I think Wolf's vocals are live...even sounded a bit choked up on the last two lines..
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZahZoo View Post
    Pretty sure it's a fully live performance with no helping tracks on this one...

    Guitars all cabled, amps on, drums mic'ed... vocals all synced... backing vocals were way back in the mix... timing on the drums was spot on, sound and visual. The guitar lead was spot on with the picking timing and they a had clear close-up shot. Definitely not faked... performed live.

    Now the only thing that's not clear was... was this live when broadcast or a taped live performance. That part only the technical people on the show can verify.
    I agree but there could be a bit of help from the sound-desk...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairwrning View Post
    I think Wolf's vocals are live...even sounded a bit choked up on the last two lines..
    His vocals were definitely live, and I like his voice BTW. I think there may be some speculation that things were touched up a bit but basically it was live..

    I'm guessing the guys in the sound desk have some sort of Pro Tools equivalent to clean up live issues but IDK...

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    Maybe it was tweaked before broadcast. Show is recorded at 5 pm LA time.

    I thought Wolf looked a little nervous at first. Understandable since it was his first time on TV as the leader. He'll be okay now that he's got that out of the way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZahZoo View Post
    Now the only thing that's not clear was... was this live when broadcast or a taped live performance. That part only the technical people on the show can verify.
    I would be shocked if it was live when broadcast - there is no need or advantage to do that so why take the risk?

    I think there may have been something going on with the backing vocals but there are some smart live time effects you can use.

    Of course we are nit picking here he did well, and all the feedback I've seen has been positive.
    Last edited by Seshmeister; 02-14-2021 at 09:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    Exactly lol! and same in the Italian tv broadcast.
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    I think its a taped live performance...lol! At first, I was intrigued by WVH and now i am convinced he has EVH talent.

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    ok ok I remember asking my girlfriend at the time (April 19, 1984), is Eddie really playing live? I was so confused...was it the alcool or was it something else ...or maybe the distance from the stage...

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    Quote Originally Posted by So this is love View Post
    I think its a taped live performance...lol! At first, I was intrigued by WVH and now i am convinced he has EVH talent.
    We will see how much rocket sauce Wolf has. Two songs so far. They are solid. Better than a lot of the crap released now. It will be interesting to see what kind of long term fan base he builds. But he came right out of the gate swinging after having to deal with his dad passing away which shows he’s got determination, balls and discipline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    I would be shocked if it was live when broadcast - there is no need or advantage to do that so why take the risk?

    I think there may have been something going on with the backing vocals but there are some smart live time effects you can use.

    Of course we are nit picking here he did well, and all the feedback I've seen has been positive.
    Most of those late night talk shows are not broadcast live... they are pre-recorded the afternoon or evening before airing.

    That performance could have been a single take or the best of multiple. Either way... it appears what we heard was the band playing it for real and not them faking it to a pre-recorded version of the song. There may have been some mix-down in the recording... post performance, maybe. It's not that complex of a tune with any fancy effects added... just straight forward rock guitar, bass, drums and vocals. Damn good... too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post

    Maybe the best music video in the history of mankind..

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    My theory is maybe there was no mike stand available so Dave borrowed a guitar instead rather than stand naked without a prop. Who knows?

    These were different times. Von asked how many people watching would have realized they were miming and I honestly think back in those days way less than half.

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    The music and vocals have late-90s/early-00s vibe. You're To Blame has a Rage b-side flavor at the start... competent musicians, nothing wrong with the music. Just not the type of music I'd listen to anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    My theory is maybe there was no mike stand available so Dave borrowed a guitar instead rather than stand naked without a prop. Who knows?

    These were different times. Von asked how many people watching would have realized they were miming and I honestly think back in those days way less than half.
    That's a sad state of human awareness... fake performances/miming wasn't anything new. I remember arguing with my friends over Dick Clark's American Bandstand and pointing out their damn electric guitars weren't even cabled in the 60's...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZahZoo View Post
    That's a sad state of human awareness... fake performances/miming wasn't anything new. I remember arguing with my friends over Dick Clark's American Bandstand and pointing out their damn electric guitars weren't even cabled in the 60's...
    It’s showbiz. You get a show. Not reality. Not just the music televisions shows. The Wrecking Crew were busy playing on albums of bands that didn’t even play their own songs. Live the girls screamed so loud nobody noticed they couldn’t play. Ha! Ha!

    It’s always been a Hoax.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    Solid song. If we still had a music industry it probably would get a lot of radio play. What stood out to me is how well everything was mixed.
    Agreed.

    Have only heard Distance and You're To Blame from the effort. Both solid efforts. Both mixed well, as I'm assuming the rest of the album is.

    Overall, Wolfgang's/ Mammoth's stuff - what little I've heard so far - to me is professional-sounding and capable, without being exceptional.

    In other words, were it a new pop rock band outta Idaho called Joe Blow And The Shmoes and I saw a clip of them playing either of the two Mammoth tracks I've heard on Kimmel, my reaction would be along the lines of thinking that the material sounded okay to decent. After that, I'd probably forget all about it rather quickly in terms of either of the two tunes being memorable to me. Distance I listened to several times after it was first released, and I honestly must say it hasn't exactly stuck with me. Not saying it stinks by any means...but just on its own merits and not as compared to anything Van Halen did or taking into account that Wolfgang is the kid of, I thought Distance was a decent tune. No more, no less.

    Perhaps there are other tunes on the album that will resonate a bit more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    It’s showbiz. You get a show. Not reality. Not just the music televisions shows. The Wrecking Crew were busy playing on albums of bands that didn’t even play their own songs. Live the girls screamed so loud nobody noticed they couldn’t play. Ha! Ha!

    It’s always been a Hoax.
    Except for Menudo...THEY were the real deal.

    And also...Josie And The Pussycats.

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    Acoustic version of Distance... It appears this was recorded in the same studio/sessions used on Kimmel.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Agreed.

    Have only heard Distance and You're To Blame from the effort. Both solid efforts. Both mixed well, as I'm assuming the rest of the album is.

    Overall, Wolfgang's/ Mammoth's stuff - what little I've heard so far - to me is professional-sounding and capable, without being exceptional.

    In other words, were it a new pop rock band outta Idaho called Joe Blow And The Shmoes and I saw a clip of them playing either of the two Mammoth tracks I've heard on Kimmel, my reaction would be along the lines of thinking that the material sounded okay to decent. After that, I'd probably forget all about it rather quickly in terms of either of the two tunes being memorable to me. Distance I listened to several times after it was first released, and I honestly must say it hasn't exactly stuck with me. Not saying it stinks by any means...but just on its own merits and not as compared to anything Van Halen did or taking into account that Wolfgang is the kid of, I thought Distance was a decent tune. No more, no less.

    Perhaps there are other tunes on the album that will resonate a bit more.
    I see it the same way. They are decent songs but nothing magical about them. Distance was a nice memorial from a son who loved his dad. Where I have the most respect for Wolfgang is he didn't let the tragedy of losing his dad stop him from getting out there and pushing forward. Not easy, especially when you have the luxury and means of not having to do it. The guy could have just hid from the public and did nothing. That would have been easier.

    Ed was a once in a lifetime talent. I think we all remember the first time we heard Eruption or Mean Streets or something else great the guy did. You can count the people who bring that kind of magic to the world on one hand. It's rare as hell and I have no expectations that is going to pass on down to the children.

    Where I have the respect for Wolfgang is he's doing something. Sure he can get on shows because of who his dad was but he's taking advantage of that opportunity during a hard emotional time for him and hey his songs aren't bad. Will Mammoth WVH be around in five years? I have no idea but I wish the guy the best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Except for Menudo...THEY were the real deal.

    And also...Josie And The Pussycats.
    Well who doesn't like a steaming hot bowl of tripe soup? Josie? Meow!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    I see it the same way. They are decent songs but nothing magical about them. Distance was a nice memorial from a son who loved his dad. Where I have the most respect for Wolfgang is he didn't let the tragedy of losing his dad stop him from getting out there and pushing forward. Not easy, especially when you have the luxury and means of not having to do it. The guy could have just hid from the public and did nothing. That would have been easier.

    Ed was a once in a lifetime talent. I think we all remember the first time we heard Eruption or Mean Streets or something else great the guy did. You can count the people who bring that kind of magic to the world on one hand. It's rare as hell and I have no expectations that is going to pass on down to the children.

    Where I have the respect for Wolfgang is he's doing something. Sure he can get on shows because of who his dad was but he's taking advantage of that opportunity during a hard emotional time for him and hey his songs aren't bad. Will Mammoth WVH be around in five years? I have no idea but I wish the guy the best.
    I agree in general terms with all of that: the two tunes I've heard certainly didn't strike me as terrible or less than average. Just taking those two tracks into consideration simply on the merits of the music - inasmuch as one can put Wolfgang's lineage and the Van Halen catalog to one side when listening to the tunes - Mammoth 2021's stuff is okay. Is it good to the point where it would be getting the attention it is had it been created by a band full of unknown musicians? I tend to doubt it, but in the entertainment business you use whatever edge you have to get noticed, and I'm still naive enough to believe that in the end it will be the content of the creation that ensures or denies success, subjective as musical tastes are. In some ways, a "kid of" a famous musician/actor/athlete works against the kid. I mean, were I the kid/relative of someone famous, would I want to go into that same field and have to endure constant comparisons to my famous relative? I dunno...I suppose I'd have to hear what Ziggy Marley, Julian Lennon, Dale Earnhardt Jr or Clint Howard had to say about the topic of double-edged swords re: nepotism...well, maybe not so much Clint Howard...

    I don't wish [Wolfgang] any ill will: if he is doing what he wants to do in terms of making music, good for him. All he can do is create what he wants to create and put it out there. After that, the reaction of the listeners is out of his hands.

    I do like the fact that Wolfgang's music is clearly his own, in that he's obviously not trying to ape the Van Halen sound...taking one of the earlier names Van Halen used in the backyard party days and showing a few images of VH behind the group on the Kimmel appearance strike me more as something Wolfgang did out of love for his father and Van Halen rather than some cynical ploy.
    Last edited by Terry; 02-19-2021 at 10:11 PM.

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