Save me reading this entire thread...
Did we all come to the same conclusion now that we have all of the politics washed away?
1) Masks never worked
2) Vaccines never prevented transmission
3) Could have lessened severity with some strains potentially
4) Vaccines never prevented infection
5) Vaccine mandates were insane
6) Corrupt Pharma wins again
Well fuck, if you're going to comment maybe at least read the first page. "Masks don't work"? Tell that to the South Korean and Taiwanese. Their initial Covid lockdowns and masking regimens indeed resulted in a miniscule transmission rate in the early days. The masks are not about you, they're about other people. Typically something we Westerners don't give a fuck about. They are far from 100% but do statistically reduce community transmission and the initial intent was to prevent overrunning of ICU's. Just because we don't like them, and wear them like assholes with masks slipping off noses and stuff in the West doesn't mean they do not work, it means we don't give a fuck about anyone else but ourselves.....
How would you know? What's your degree in? Your opinion is not fact. I'm pretty sure that there were people that vaxed and never got Covid because of the vaccine. But yes, I was vaxed three times and still got Covid at the end of February. But the only reason I even knew it was because I had been regularly testing in order to see my sick father in the hospital/nursing home. My Covid barley a cold, despite having some "risk factor's)" although my immune system is actually extremely strong, which is a problem actually.2)4) Vaccines never prevented transmission/never prevented infection
3) Could have lessened severity with some strains potentially
But both masking and vaccines were never supposed to be 100% effective nor was there ever a magic silver bullet. They were meant to minimize hospitalization and the horrors that struck Italy in the late winter of 2020 where tens of thousands of older people died nearly simultaneously and the dead were stacked up in hospital corridors next to new patients. So easy to forget that shit conveniently...
How was that insane? If you don't want the Vax, there was no gun to your head to get it. You simply couldn't get certain jobs or conduct business as usual. I was in the US Army, and one day early on we processed through a hallway with two guys firing guns into our arms. They didn't fucking ask "do you mind this polio vaccine being injected into you?" There's always been mandates, like so retards can't send their sickly kids to schools and spread diseases to everyone else because they are superstitious/ignorant anti-science assholes....5) Vaccine mandates were insane
Yay! I wish people actually gave a fuck about "Big/Corrupt Pharma" when it came to advertising bullshit expensive drugs to "ask your doctor about" on TV that are often less effective than the currently available generic drugs. Oh yeah, opioids! But those drugs are kind of fun so no one gives a fuck to truly enact severe reforms needed. We only worry about vaccines based on a partisan POV fanned by bullshit conspiracy theories...6) Corrupt Pharma wins again
The arguments against masks/vaccines/lockdowns is basically like "seatbelts and airbags don't save 100% of car accidents victims, therefore seatbelts and airbags don't work!"
Most other countries this didn't divide on politics. Every sort of government ended up having to do different versions of what happened in the US from dictatorships to commies to super right wing to theocracies.
There are still millions with long Covid and thousands still dying every week. Sure some mistakes were made but drugs saved millions of lives, if you want to have a go at 'Big Pharma' its opioids you need to fight them over not vaccines.
Also conspiracy theory people where are all the people that were supposed to die from the 'untested vaccine'? Seems like that was a hoax. If you want a good conspiracy to get your teeth into go and look into why there were so many posts on social media from Russia in english telling us not to take vaccines...
I think that isn't the right analogy.
More like:
"The Pinto has been tested as the safetest car ever made. Not only will this go down with the Gremlin as the most stylish car in history, but it prevents deaths from rear-end collisions specifically. If you don't buy a Pinto, your employment will be terminated as not having a Pinto is a true marker of irresponsibility and certain disregard for life. We will certainly shame you for choices other than a Pinto in any public way possible. It is a Pinto or nothing moving forward. This is the way"
Did some of you miss the last 8 months? We have discovered with actual proof that:
Vax didn't stop spread, didn;t prevent infection, masks didnt work. People in high positions of power knew this and missated these facts and demanded compliance. We know this to be true now!!! People terminated for not complying are now getting their jobs back.
[QUOTE=Nickdfresh;1962551]Well fuck, if you're going to comment maybe at least read the first page. "Masks don't work"? Tell that to the South Korean and Taiwanese. Their initial Covid lockdowns and masking regimens indeed resulted in a miniscule transmission rate in the early days. The masks are not about you, they're about other people. Typically something we Westerners don't give a fuck about. They are far from 100% but do statistically reduce community transmission and the initial intent was to prevent overrunning of ICU's. Just because we don't like them, and wear them like assholes with masks slipping off noses and stuff in the West doesn't mean they do not work, it means we don't give a fuck about anyone else but ourselves.....
Other things these regions did, that we wouldn't consider because they would have resulted in "vaccine Heasitancy"
- Used nasal sprays to combat severity and perhaps avoid infection altogether
- used drugs like Ivermectin (one of the most effective and safest drugs ever invented). But oif course you likely followed the CNN/MSNBC propaganda
Eat Us And Smile
Cenk For America 2024!!
Justice Democrats
"If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992
Regarding 2 and 3...It is now agreed upon with recent studies and by The CEO of Pfizer that their vaccine (or any other) was never meant to and they never claimed that it prevented infection. Did you miss all of this? Kinda a key point don't you think. This isn't opinion, but now a known fact and from the horse's mouth as well as studies. As far as masks, we can talk all about best of intentions all we want, but there is literally zero evidence or study that proves any effectiveness. The new studies priove the masks didn't help stop the spread. A miracle they were allowed to occur at all given the all-in buy-in from the regimes in power. I remember all too well the early days. I also remember following the data closely and also remembering that 3 months in, the evidence had chancged dramatically. Data wasn't followed. I had Professor friends of mine begging a newspaper to listen to them for a balanced look at the current data. What do you think happenned?
Regarding vaccine mandates, Nickd, are you serious? There was a gun to your head...get vaxxed or lose your job. Really? Here is a great example of the insanity:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mlykQ2SlY5Q
Last edited by Romeo Delight; 05-23-2023 at 11:29 AM.
That is likely true, but many countries tried it because it was soooo safe, and was inexpensive. You missed the part about nasal sprays conveniently, as well as the way CNN and MSNBC portrayed those tryign Ivermectin looking for more proven alternatives.
Also, you forget to mention the vaccines themselves have never been proven effective at prevention or stopping teh spread, so really Ivermectin and the vax share these qualities.
No absolute cure against the corona virus. Zinc if you can get it into your cells is highly effective against viruses. Some physicians think ivermectin helps your body absorb zinc faster. Ivermectin on its own isn’t going to do anything.
Anyways all this shit gets overhyped. The pharmaceutical companies are the biggest advertisers now and so they basically have the media sucking their cocks and Hoojah the local natural health witch doctor always wants to sell you something.
Anyways Ivermectin is considered one of the most important drugs ever developed because of its effectiveness on parasites and is one of the safer drugs.
Anyways the corona virus gets the last laugh and if there is a sure cure we might not ever see it. It would put all those cold medicines out of business.
No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!
All a mask does is keep the saliva from people’s mouths from going airborne. That got overhyped as well. The mask became this magical save all device. I wonder how many people got pneumonia from wearing dirty masks? Anyways people are dumbasses and easily manipulated. That’s the key to getting rich. Manipulate the population. More billionaires were created durning COVID and quite interesting the rich people held Event 201 a few months before a virus came from a lab.
Here’s the big question. Was COVID 19 released on purpose? They knew it was coming. Anyways keep the little people arguing and fleece them.
This (masks not effective against respitory) was also known pre-Covid, and why in the early days masks weren't recoemended
WHO guidelines 2019:
https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/...516839-eng.pdf
Masks became fashionable and demonstrated adherence to power:
"The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks. There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection."
https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr...6207.pub6/full
If we had just followed the data at any point, we would have been so much better off. That is all I am saying in any of this.
Last edited by Romeo Delight; 05-23-2023 at 01:06 PM.
I still see people wearing masks in their car, alone.
Saw a guy wearing a mask riding his bike on the trail the other day.
I know people in certain countries wear masks due to the pollution. I remember a lot of Asians wearing masks during SARS, but even that went away.
I said that all along.
We went to Presque Isle park in Erie that August. PA state park system said we had to wear masks in the park and even IN THE WATER. We rode our bikes less than a quarter mile and saw no one was wearing a mask. Didn't wear it the rest of the day.
Well yeah but it takes a while to go from unhealthy to healthy especially if say you had COPD or asthma when COVID broke out.
I can't remember people being stopped from going outside, did that happen in the US?
Lockdown was to stop hospitals running out of intensive care capacity that was said at the time. A lot. Like every fucking day for months are we still having to go through this?
The current 2023 WHO guidelines are that masks are useful in preventing spread of COVID-19
https://www.who.int/emergencies/dise...covid-19-masks
Do you remember the SWAT team called out in Cali for the person surfing...alone...in the ocean? It was ridiculous
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...ia-cracks-down
Your paper concludes more research is needed.
It's a difficult thing to research. We do know that flu went down steeply during the COVID measures so that strongly suggests that lockdown, masks and increased hand hygiene will have helped with COVID but not exactly how much each did.Authors' conclusions
The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions. There were additional RCTs during the pandemic related to physical interventions but a relative paucity given the importance of the question of masking and its relative effectiveness and the concomitant measures of mask adherence which would be highly relevant to the measurement of effectiveness, especially in the elderly and in young children.
There is uncertainty about the effects of face masks. The low to moderate certainty of evidence means our confidence in the effect estimate is limited, and that the true effect may be different from the observed estimate of the effect. The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks. There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection. Hand hygiene is likely to modestly reduce the burden of respiratory illness, and although this effect was also present when ILI and laboratory‐confirmed influenza were analysed separately, it was not found to be a significant difference for the latter two outcomes. Harms associated with physical interventions were under‐investigated.
There is a need for large, well‐designed RCTs addressing the effectiveness of many of these interventions in multiple settings and populations, as well as the impact of adherence on effectiveness, especially in those most at risk of ARIs.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hs...d-19-pandemic/
I would suspect that lockdown/distancing was by far the most important factor and that was also by far the most inconvenient.
Ah it’s easy. Never let a crisis go to waste and people suck (especially politicians and healthcare executives). That’s what we learned from the pandemic.
I was amazed how much logic went out the window and how divided people got. The shots were experimental but approved due to an emergency. I certainly can understand people’s concern over safety. Why do you care if someone doesn’t get the shot if you believe it works and you took it? If anything people need someone to blame. That’s what it boils down to. Anyways we might have electricity but we haven’t matured beyond the middle ages much and we learned nothing from Nazi Germany. We deserve to get wiped out.
The world is full of ruins of great civilizations. Just a reminder not to believe in our bullshit too much.
They were not experimental they were all put through the standard safety testing before being rolled out to the public.
They were also all put through clinical trials with tens of thousands of people to prove they worked before they were rolled out.
This was all years ago now and you are still spouting the same stuff that isn't true that seems to be a mixture of a movie you saw, something a guy said in a bar and some stuff you read that your aunt posted on her social media.
Yeah but the Pinto wasn't that bad of a car and was no more likely to explode out its asshole after being rear-ended than the equivalent Corolla or Civic. Gremlins were ugly as fuck but are sought out now by collectors. Buffalo Bills fan Pinto Ron has several hundred thousand miles on his Ford Pinto, along with a lot of condiments...
And yes the employment thing is tough, but there have always been jobs that mandatory vaccines were a prerequisite. I can see a factory floor where most are relatively young and in shape being exempted, but then they may have had spouses, parents, immuno-compromised relatives, etc. But education, the military, white collar professions have had either vaccine mandates or just assumes if you graduated secondary schools or college you already were mandated...
Also almost no libertarians at the time seemed to pick up on the fact that they were campaigning for THE GOVERNMENT to force private companies to employ people that they didn't want to i.e. the unvaccinated.
Is that not kind of fucked up?
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