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Thread: Tapes that kill

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    Still piping in the backing vocals and some additional lead vocals.

    I smiled at the comment that 'John5 makes it look easy', it is easy.

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    Nitro, yep acoustic guitars are hard to play well. It’s not a slab with thin strings 1/16” off the frets.
    High end guitars hey?
    I’ve played them all too, and I’ll put my $3k Takamines up against anything twice the price.

    So if Ed didn’t have any acoustics laying around, what’s on spanish fly and could this be magic, in a simple rhyme etc?
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    I hope they are paying J5 well. I assume they are. He looks pretty happy.

    Stephen Pearcy just came out and said they're piping in the bass guitar too!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashstralia View Post
    Nitro, yep acoustic guitars are hard to play well. It’s not a slab with thin strings 1/16” off the frets.
    High end guitars hey?
    I’ve played them all too, and I’ll put my $3k Takamines up against anything twice the price.

    So if Ed didn’t have any acoustics laying around, what’s on spanish fly and could this be magic, in a simple rhyme etc?
    Ed clearly had a few lying around, although I seem to recall he had borrowed the one he used on Spanish Fly from Ted Templeman according to lore (if I'm remembering the story correctly).
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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    There's a big difference in doing something like The Who did with Baba O'Riley.... if you're doing a set list that only has one or two songs with keyboard parts ("Won't Get Fooled Again" being the other one) then it makes sense to use a track for those two songs, rather than hiring a keyboard player & having extra instruments & equipment to haul around all over the planet for what amounts to a very minor portion of the show. Of course even with technology, these things can sometimes go very bad, if the tracks don't sync up with the live instruments....



    On the other hand, Queen has been playing the "opera" section of Bohemian Rhapsody from tape for years, even when Freddie was alive, and they always seemed to pull it off. With all the multi-tracked vocals in that part of the song, it's not hard to guess why. Couldn't reproduce that live... and certainly not with an inferior singer like LAMEbert.

    But there's a big difference between that, and doing what Motley Crue & Kiss are doing with their tapes.... which is covering up for the fact that the old farts simply can't play their own songs anymore.
    Plus, Queen would walk offstage when the taped 'opera' section played, so there was no miming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    Odd thing about Garth Brooks - at least back in his 90s heyday - was that he was working with two entirely different bands. One for the records & one for the road. I'm assuming the studio musicians were on the payroll of either the producer or Capitol Nashville records. His live band always recreated the songs as good or better than the album versions. You definitely knew Garth wasn't using tracks.... though his live album probably had a few overdubs on it, based on the fact that a few of the songs sounded considerably different than the actual live versions heard in concert.
    It was a good show...LOT of musicians onstage, but the sound was spectacular in terms of the mix (keeping in mind this was an outdoor stadium I saw him in) and as near as I can tell everything was being played live by the musicians onstage.

    Like I said, I wasn't a particular fan, but I was impressed. Guy did upwards of 2 & 1/2 hours: a LOT of songs and not an overabundance of in-between song patter, either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    I hope they are paying J5 well. I assume they are. He looks pretty happy.
    He's gone pro on us. No more Beachland shows! lol
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    Vince Neil: Too F A T for love??

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    Didn't look like they were packing 'em in like sardines in Sao Paulo, audience-wise.

    At least Neil managed a stroll across the stage without stumbling or falling off it; with that diminished metric of success, Tubby is hurtling the lowered bar.

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    That's liver damage not all out F A T
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    How far has Robert Fripp fallen from grace recently? Still, even he plays it better.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Didn't look like they were packing 'em in like sardines in Sao Paulo, audience-wise.

    At least Neil managed a stroll across the stage without stumbling or falling off it; with that diminished metric of success, Tubby is hurtling the lowered bar.
    “This was a show for a much smaller venue”, said a friend as soon as we passed through the access gate to Allianz Parque. That’s because the audience at the stadium to witness what was most likely the last time Def Leppard and Mötley Crüe will ever play in Brazil was around 10,000 people, including all sections with tickets on sale. “I’ve seen B series soccer games gather a lot more people”, he added.
    I see the upper sections blocked off, wonder if they ever went on sale or were covered up after weak sales.

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    Billy Sheehan Wasn't on DLR 'Skyscraper' Tour — But His Voice Was

    Veteran bassist Billy Sheehan wasn't on the road with David Lee Roth during the singer's Skyscraper tour —
    but his vocals were.

    The four-string virtuoso, who played on Roth's 1986 full-length solo debut Eat 'Em and Smile and 1988's
    Skyscraper, said pre-recorded backing tracks were one of his final points of contention before exiting the
    band in 1988.

    "My last moments with David Lee Roth [were] in the studio," Sheehan told I'm Music Magazine. "We
    sang all the background vocals for the Skyscraper tour to be on samples for them to use live, which
    went against my grain to start with. And later that day, I had the meeting which ended my relationship
    with Dave. Fortunately, I did not go out on that tour with fake vocals. I did sing on that tour, but I did it
    digitally. I'm very, very much against faking it."


    Full story at:
    https://ultimateclassicrock.com/bill...r-tour-vocals/
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    Wow I didn't know it went back that far.

    Maybe they should have also used tapes of his bass too, I remember Matt Bissonette ducked every difficult bit of Sheehan playing on that tour.... A bit disappointing.

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    I agree with Sheehan. I'm sick of all these bands faking it. If I want to listen to the record, I'll listen to the fucking record. They're taking all the charm of a live show, out of the live show.

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    Mötley Crüe Fake Playing Live, Guitarist Mick Mars Claims In Profits Participation Suit Against Band

    According to a profits participation filing this week (read it here) by the 71-year-old six-stringer today
    in LA Superior Court, Nikki Sixx, Vince Neil and Tommy Lee fake playing and singing their songs while
    on tour. The allegation from the ankylosing spondylitis-suffering Mars not only puts the self-described
    “world’s most notorious band” in a very uncomfortable spotlight, but may also not go down so well
    with the millions of fans paying Sixx, Neil, Lee and new touring guitarist John 5 big bucks to see
    them on tour this year.

    Although Mars had indicated that the 12 U.S. stadium dates would be his last shows while touring,
    the 12 anticipated shows ultimately expanded to 36 shows, and Mars performed at every single
    one of them, in constant pain. Sixx’s gaslighting came to a crescendo during the stadium tour,
    when he, knowing that this was Mars’s last tour as a result of his increasingly painful and debilitating
    AS, and apparently already plotting to force him out of the band and take his shares, repeatedly told
    Mars that he was playing the wrong chords, and that fans were complaining about his playing.

    Astonishingly, Sixx made these claims about Mars’s playing while he (Sixx) did not play a single note
    on bass during the entire U.S. tour. Ironically, 100% of Sixx’s bass parts were nothing but recordings.
    Sixx was seen fist pumping in the air with his strumming hand, while the bass part was playing. In fact,
    a significant portion of Neil’s vocals were also pre-recorded. Even some of Lee’s drum parts were
    recordings. Some fans actually noticed that Lee was walking toward his drum set as they heard
    his drum part begin.

    Full story at:
    https://deadline.com/2023/04/motley-...xx-1235319450/

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    What was the point of hiring John Lowery if they were just going to fake it with tapes? They could have pulled a KISS move and sent a roadie out on stage, dressed up like Mick Mars.

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    I think his point is that he was the only one actually performing live all the time. Sixx was miming all bass parts, vocals were helped probably fading in at out and some of the drumming was helped as per the initial post of this thread.

    Remember it is in a legal document he's saying this so he must be confident they can't deny it/sue him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    I agree with Sheehan. I'm sick of all these bands faking it. If I want to listen to the record, I'll listen to the fucking record. They're taking all the charm of a live show, out of the live show.
    It's not even just old rock geezers anymore, but bands/acts of all ages and all genres faking it. Lip-synching bullshit.

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    It's really sad. From what I understand, Crue's last REAL tour (the farewell thingy) went very well. The shows were apparently good. Then they come back and do pathetic double and triple-billings, eventually losing the only guitarist they ever had and literally playing to tapes. I thought the whole point of their farewell tour was that they wanted to go out while they "could still kick ass"? Now, they're an industry embarrassment.
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    They want to remove Marrs as an "officer of the corporation". How rock and roll!!!
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    The band are countering with stuff like

    In the attached signed declarations, seven crew members offer complaints about Mars's playing in the 2022 tour. Robert Long, the band's production manager since 2007, said in the statement provided by group attorneys to Variety: "When he is off, the band's entire performance suffers. Mick's performance during 'The Stadium Tour' was unworkable and very difficult to manage. It began with the band's rehearsals in April 2022. Mick would consistently forget chords and songs so the band would have to stop and re-teach those parts to Mick to remind him of the arrangements. … Mick's performance issues continued throughout the tour. He would consistently miss notes; play out of tune; play the wrong chords during a song; stay within a chorus of a song and never come out of it; forget the song that he was playing and start a different one; and would get lost in songs. This happened at every show. … Our playback engineer put in cues for Mick so that he would stay on course but he would miss the cues.”


    Tour manager Thomas Reitz declared in his statement that "Mick was struggling, forgetting chords and songs. He was not up to speed with the songs and could not play his solos. The other band members spent hours trying to help Mick. Mick would often get frustrated and confused. I also witnessed the band and crew's frustration with Mick's mistakes first hand during the rehearsals. Mick's issues continued and got worse during the tour. Virtually at every concert, he played the wrong chords, wrong song or would forget what song he was playing. A sound technician would always need to have a backup track ready in case Mick played the wrong song or chord."

    The group's monitor engineer, Scott Megrath, said in his declaration that, at certain points, "I had to make sure that the other band members would not get Mick's feed into their earpieces because that would confuse them and potentially ruin the show. Mick's mistakes happened on numerous occasions and at every show. In my years of experience, I have never seen mistakes like this by a guitarist on stage."
    There is some 'fake history' that Crue were the biggest act of the period with the best musicians among people who weren't around back then. Millennials and even friends of my teenage kids have them on this pedestal which is a bit bizarre. Around 1991 Crue were 3rd top of the bill at festivals. In the circles I was in Mick Mars was seen as decent at coming up with the odd riff but an unusually poor guitarist compared to most others to the point that if I hit a duff note someone in the rest of the band would shout down the mike even at a live gig 'MICK MARS!!'. Now on Facebook groups I see him topping polls of the greatest guitarist of the 80s/90s it's all a bit weird.

    I'm not a hater at all I liked the 2 decent songs they would have on each album back then but the bullshit and lies has been crazy so it must be a bit shocking to the part of their fan base who are 40 and younger that the whole thing doesn't bear up to much close inspection...
    Last edited by Seshmeister; 04-06-2023 at 10:06 PM.

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    I wouldn't see these clowns if you paid me. Fucking Nikki Prixx yells to the hills how he's sober but still can't play his bass live. Retards, die in a plane crash already....

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    The group's monitor engineer, Scott Megrath, said in his declaration that, at certain points, "I had to make sure that the other band members would not get Mick's feed into their earpieces because that would confuse them and potentially ruin the show.
    Presumably because they might then mime the wrong note?

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    So if you strip away the girls who may be singing backing vocals or maybe just miming strippers not a whole lot left...


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    Wonder how recent this pic is


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    Quote Originally Posted by twonabomber View Post
    Wonder how recent this pic is
    Jesus Christ...yeah, they're sure going out "on top"...LMFAO.

    They WERE once a great band...TOO FAST FOR LOVE, SHOUT AT THE DEVIL...most people hated it but I really liked a lot of the material on their reunion LP, GENERATION SWINE. At least they were trying something new.

    But they REALLY should have bowed out with their farewell tour. They are literally pissing on their legacy. I'll bet they're just going to keep running this thing into the ground, eventually losing another original member with more lawsuits...maybe it'll just be Nikki in the end, playing an all-mimed backing track tour, doing the same hits that sound like shit, uglier than ever...

    I had an ex that broke up with me after we lived together for a while. I moved on, eventually met my wife and was happy...but my ex suddenly couldn't accept that I had moved on. She literally for a few years was sending me crazy emails, questioning how I could move on, questioning how I would want to "let us go." She just couldn't see that it was no good...just couldn't see that it was so over and kept trying and trying to just keep it going for so much longer than any sane person would want to try beating a dead horse. She stalked me even after I was engaged to my future wife. SHE JUST COULDN'T SEE THAT SOME THINGS JUST NEED TO END, FOR FUCK'S SAKES!!!

    And that's just what this band is now. I used to really like them. And I still put on TOO FAST FOR LOVE and jump around the room, listening to LIVE WIRE or PUBLIC ENEMY #1. But every year they continue to be bigger and bigger fucking jokes, I just completely lose respect for them and the legacy they're destroying.

    They NEVER were the unique and almost divine experience that original Van Halen or Rush or Deep Purple were. They were kind of a sleazy, loud and fun band that one could not take truly seriously. And they had plenty of lousy moments in their career/catalog. But I never thought they could sink this low.

    Who the fuck are these people still buying tickets?...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikk View Post
    They NEVER were the unique and almost divine experience that original Van Halen or Rush or Deep Purple were. They were kind of a sleazy, loud and fun band that one could not take truly seriously. And they had plenty of lousy moments in their career/catalog. But I never thought they could sink this low.
    Musical equivalent of a summer popcorn movie.

    They were okay on the SOLA tour, which is the last I saw, and as much as I like John 5, I won't go now. Nothing like Feelgood tour or even Gen Swine, there was an energy that tour of "hey, we're back!" even though the album was iffy and they played smaller rooms.

    Probably should have quit in '05. Mars looked awkward onstage that tour, like he had metal rods in his boots holding him up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikk View Post
    It's really sad. From what I understand, Crue's last REAL tour (the farewell thingy) went very well. The shows were apparently good. Then they come back and do pathetic double and triple-billings, eventually losing the only guitarist they ever had and literally playing to tapes. I thought the whole point of their farewell tour was that they wanted to go out while they "could still kick ass"? Now, they're an industry embarrassment.
    The show I saw from that tour was okay, performance-wise. Vince Neil was clearly having trouble in that he looked and sounded winded and sang very few choruses, opting to stick the mic out to the crowd in a gesture to have the audience sing them (a bit like 'hey, asshole, I didn't pay to hear these tone-deaf idiots around me singing your tunes' but whatever) along with the two female backup singer/dancers. It was also audibly obvious at that show that while Mick Mars appeared to be playing live there were backing guitar rhythm tracks being either piped in or someone offstage was playing rhythm guitar.

    Then again, I never considered Motley Crue to be particularly good musicians anyway - even back in the 1980s - so the augmentations weren't surprising.
    Motley Crue were never a band I thought of as great musicians, even back in the 1980s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikk View Post
    Jesus Christ...yeah, they're sure going out "on top"...LMFAO.

    They WERE once a great band...TOO FAST FOR LOVE, SHOUT AT THE DEVIL...most people hated it but I really liked a lot of the material on their reunion LP, GENERATION SWINE. At least they were trying something new.

    But they REALLY should have bowed out with their farewell tour. They are literally pissing on their legacy. I'll bet they're just going to keep running this thing into the ground, eventually losing another original member with more lawsuits...maybe it'll just be Nikki in the end, playing an all-mimed backing track tour, doing the same hits that sound like shit, uglier than ever...

    I had an ex that broke up with me after we lived together for a while. I moved on, eventually met my wife and was happy...but my ex suddenly couldn't accept that I had moved on. She literally for a few years was sending me crazy emails, questioning how I could move on, questioning how I would want to "let us go." She just couldn't see that it was no good...just couldn't see that it was so over and kept trying and trying to just keep it going for so much longer than any sane person would want to try beating a dead horse. She stalked me even after I was engaged to my future wife. SHE JUST COULDN'T SEE THAT SOME THINGS JUST NEED TO END, FOR FUCK'S SAKES!!!

    And that's just what this band is now. I used to really like them. And I still put on TOO FAST FOR LOVE and jump around the room, listening to LIVE WIRE or PUBLIC ENEMY #1. But every year they continue to be bigger and bigger fucking jokes, I just completely lose respect for them and the legacy they're destroying.

    They NEVER were the unique and almost divine experience that original Van Halen or Rush or Deep Purple were. They were kind of a sleazy, loud and fun band that one could not take truly seriously. And they had plenty of lousy moments in their career/catalog. But I never thought they could sink this low.

    Who the fuck are these people still buying tickets?...
    Sort of the definition of a band comprised of meatheads who made it big...bigger than I thought they should have...but I too still enjoy the first two albums...

    It's as you say in that they were this dumb, loud L.A. club band that played dumb, loud, fun rock that one could never take seriously. As twonabomber said, basically disposable fluff a la summer popcorn movie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Sort of the definition of a band comprised of meatheads who made it big...bigger than I thought they should have...but I too still enjoy the first two albums...

    It's as you say in that they were this dumb, loud L.A. club band that played dumb, loud, fun rock that one could never take seriously. As twonabomber said, basically disposable fluff a la summer popcorn movie.
    Nikki Sixx bought a house not too far away from me. This place appeals to outdoors people. I found it odd he would move here because he doesn’t strike me as a skiing, mountain climbing, back packing, fly fishing type guy.

    The Crue had good songs. I never bought one album. It was good background music. I saw them at the US Festival. I thought they were a bit of a KISS rip off. They had a bit of makeup on and Sixx was in platform shoes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    Nikki Sixx bought a house not too far away from me. This place appeals to outdoors people. I found it odd he would move here because he doesn’t strike me as a skiing, mountain climbing, back packing, fly fishing type guy.

    The Crue had good songs. I never bought one album. It was good background music. I saw them at the US Festival. I thought they were a bit of a KISS rip off. They had a bit of makeup on and Sixx was in platform shoes.
    You were at the US Festival??

    I know people love to talk about sloppy VH were at the US Festival...but I have a pretty decent Blu-Ray of it that I put together. It's not polished...but it's still a fun VH gig...even if Dave (and I suspect one or two of the other guys) is totally drunk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    Nikki Sixx bought a house not too far away from me. This place appeals to outdoors people. I found it odd he would move here because he doesn’t strike me as a skiing, mountain climbing, back packing, fly fishing type guy.

    The Crue had good songs. I never bought one album. It was good background music. I saw them at the US Festival. I thought they were a bit of a KISS rip off. They had a bit of makeup on and Sixx was in platform shoes.
    I liked 'em when they first broke big in 1984.

    Then again, I was 13/14 years old. Back then, as you say, a lot of us thought they were ripping KISS off a bit.

    They got lame quick, though. Going 'glam' with that Theater Of Pain record and that lame Home Sweet Home tune...I mean, their image prior was a bit of a joke but at least the music was a bit tougher on the first two records. Ironically, while they got bigger post-Shout, overall I liked their music less and less the longer they stuck around.

    I did think the SOLA track was a good return to form, or at least the Motley sound I had liked circa 1984.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikk View Post
    You were at the US Festival??

    I know people love to talk about sloppy VH were at the US Festival...but I have a pretty decent Blu-Ray of it that I put together. It's not polished...but it's still a fun VH gig...even if Dave (and I suspect one or two of the other guys) is totally drunk.
    That was part of the CVH legend, though: a record setting one-off appearance in terms of the concert fee garnered, yet Van Halen shows up a bit more than half in the bag anyway.

    For years, all I'd seen of that performance was the edited version that aired on Showtime (or Cinemax, or whichever channel aired it). Probably wasn't until the mid-1990s when I stumbled across a VHS bootleg of the entire show for sale in a Mom n' Pop record store that I saw and heard the entire set unedited. A bit rough with some mistakes to be sure (not just Dave, either; Ed and Al played some bum notes here and there), but I'd wager had I been there drunk and stoned none of that would have bothered me in the least.

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    The thing that's been bugging me about this is the more I think about it I don't really understand Nikki Sixx miming. Why would you do that, would it not just make it less fun for him? Usually the miming thing is because you can't do something live you could do in the studio but surely that's not an issue with Motley Crue bass lines?

    The only thing I can think of is that he is having trouble remembering the songs.

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    Not rock is it?

    The minute you go to click tracks the energy has to go. Interesting he doesn't even bother with the feed from Tommy Lee.

    I would say his playing is ok and obviously none of his bandmates are in a position to criticize...

    I have to admit I can see the attraction of that little fellah telling you 'last time' and so on. I was waiting for it to say 'Now collect your check and remember to wipe your ass after shitting in the backstage area.'

    Also surely it's a bit of a giveaway that the dancers backing vocals have male voices.

    Surely the sensible move would be to replace Sixx and Lee with another couple of dancers?
    Last edited by Seshmeister; 04-11-2023 at 10:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    The thing that's been bugging me about this is the more I think about it I don't really understand Nikki Sixx miming. Why would you do that, would it not just make it less fun for him? Usually the miming thing is because you can't do something live you could do in the studio but surely that's not an issue with Motley Crue bass lines?

    The only thing I can think of is that he is having trouble remembering the songs.
    The guy was doing his own radio show not too long ago. He seemed mentally with it. I mean Motley Crue bass lines aren’t like Rush or even the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Play the shit. Miming Motley bass? Is anything more lame than that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    Not rock is it?

    The minute you go to click tracks the energy has to go. Interesting he doesn't even bother with the feed from Tommy Lee.

    I would say his playing is ok and obviously none of his bandmates are in a position to criticize...

    I have to admit I can see the attraction of that little fellah telling you 'last time' and so on. I was waiting for it to say 'Now collect your check and remember to wipe your ass after shitting in the backstage area.'

    Also surely it's a bit of a giveaway that the dancers backing vocals have male voices.

    Surely the sensible move would be to replace Sixx and Lee with another couple of dancers?
    Well with this trans thing being the latest fad, females with manly voices is currently in style.

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