Why Van Hagar Pales In Comparison

[MasonL]

I was in the grocery store a couple days ago and heard "Why Can't This Song Be Over" while shopping and it suddenly hit me: therein lies the reason that Van Hagar sucks. It's wholly acceptable to parents, and therefore children.

All those songs were made with sales and popularity in mind. There was no drive. No desperation, no real convicted, committed passion in the music. It had no spirit. That's why those songs may have sold a lot in its time but are used as background music at the grocery store now. And it makes sense because Sam is a businessman. His concern is selling and being liked by as many people as possible.

I've never heard Classic VH played in a setting like that. I don't even think I've heard Jump in the supermarket, which is inarguably their most commercially appealing track. Because the music was made with heart. They were real artists.

And now it's all caught up with Hagar as he pathetically tries to get a piece of VH's legacy all throughout the press, using Ed's death as the vehicle to do so. He's realized that nobody cares about Van Hagar and is turning everything up to 11 to try and cover up for it. He's a sad, miserable man indeed.

[Nitro Express]

I wan’t to hear House of Pain and Sinner’s Swing in the super market.

[Vinnie Velvet]

The thing that baffles me are those fans who actually prefer Van Hagar over CVH and actually think its better -- yes better.

[ZahZoo]

In order to have balance in the universe... you have to have both good taste and bad taste. Music is not exempt from this natural law of how shit works.

Van Hagar provides ample balance of suckage to offset the amazing greatness of original recipe Van Halen!!

Class dismissed...

[Vinnie Velvet]

I want to know - cause I can't recall - whether there were any VH fans that actually listened to Hagar pre-Van Hagar.

I can remember some digging I Cant Drive 55 in '84 but that's about it.

To be straight up fans of Sam and go see his shows I don't think there was any cross over.

CVH fans were into Ozzy, Sabbath/Dio, Priest, etc

[Seshmeister]

I can remember some digging I Cant Drive 55 in '84 but that's about it.

Which was just a fucking novelty song anyway - sub Weird Al.

[ZahZoo]

I liked the first Montrose album but not for Hagar's singing... the guitar work. Didn't care for any of Hagar's solo material after he left Montrose.

Prior to CVH coming out I was into a lot of the 60's/70's music that preceded them during my middle/high school years in the early 70's... Hendrix, Black Sabbath, Steppenwolf, Bad Company, Led Zeppelin, Motorhead, ACDC, Aerosmith, Deep Purple, Pink Floyd, Skynyrd, Nazareth, ZZ Top, etc...

[Seshmeister]

The thing that baffles me are those fans who actually prefer Van Hagar over CVH and actually think its better -- yes better.

There are also plenty of people that preferred Chris de Burgh or Phil Collins to CVH. Some people like meh beige music usually because they have very limited musical knowledge. They would read Jackie Collins and listen to Van Hagar and it's all fine just irritating that you accidentally have to read about it or have to even put the C in CVH.

[Nitro Express]

I want to know - cause I can't recall - whether there were any VH fans that actually listened to Hagar pre-Van Hagar.

I can remember some digging I Cant Drive 55 in '84 but that's about it.

To be straight up fans of Sam and go see his shows I don't think there was any cross over.

CVH fans were into Ozzy, Sabbath/Dio, Priest, etc

Sam’s best song is One Way to Rock. Probably his best performance as a singer was Heavy Metal. Sam shot his load with those two. Everything else is poodle turds.

[Nitro Express]

Van Halen’s fan base was very broad. They were good enough of a band and fun enough to appeal to a broad audience. You Really Got Me was a huge song in the day and it appealed to people who normally wouldn’t like a hard rock band.

[Nitro Express]

I liked the first Montrose album but not for Hagar's singing... the guitar work. Didn't care for any of Hagar's solo material after he left Montrose.

Prior to CVH coming out I was into a lot of the 60's/70's music that preceded them during my middle/high school years in the early 70's... Hendrix, Black Sabbath, Steppenwolf, Bad Company, Led Zeppelin, Motorhead, ACDC, Aerosmith, Deep Purple, Pink Floyd, Skynyrd, Nazareth, ZZ Top, etc...

And KISS. KISS were the big live rock act of the mid 70’s. All the kids my age wanted to play like Ace Frehley. What was on the radio was soft rock and disco. 78 is when some good stuff started to happen. Punk and New Age were rolling in. Hard Rock was coming back. Some really original and creative stuff was blooming and with MTV we got the 80’s thing which was a fun ride.

[Nitro Express]

Stuff just happens. You have new technology and mediums and social trends. It all combines to create art and something delivers it to the masses. The internet and social media turned the world on it’s head. Not necessarily in good ways. I think it’s fragmented society and brought the worst out of people and are we really informed? It’s created a dysfunctional fantasy world full of whiners.

[Nitro Express]

Toss the phone and party!

[Rikk]

There were many reasons the entire Van Hagar-era was offensive:

1) The lyrics were terrible. I listen to CVH albums and am blown away (first) by what Dave is doing, vocally & lyrically. Afterwards, I start to appreciate the firepower of the rhythm section AND especially the creativity of Eddie's riffs & chords. It's a COMPLETE package. With Van Hagar, the man is boring. Generic. He never has an original thought. I listen to something like GOOD ENOUGH and I don't know what he's trying to say...WELL, he's not trying to say anything. He's literally taking lyrics from other bad hard rock songs and regurgitating them. His melodies are often extremely generic...like he's just finding notes that fit in the key. THUS, when I listen to Van Hagar (which, I'm not going to lie like some people...I still put it on sometimes, especially these last couple of years, to listen to Eddie), I immediately and primarily am listening to the music. Then, I get SAD. I listen to it and lament and think about what it would have been like had Dave sung over some of this music.

2) "Sammy can sing over anything!" So could Dave. It wasn't about "could." It was actually "would." Dave refused to sing over anything. Dave would listen to certain pieces of music and say, "Not good enough." End of story. Sammy has no taste. He just wants to throw anything down (like doing the lyrics for Twister on the hood of the car, running in to sing them and then flying back home) so that he can leave and not be "working" any more.

3) Eddie promised in several interviews when Sammy joined that the band would play "any and all" of the classic Van Halen catalog. He did not lie. It was not his fault (well, it was his fault for continuing to be in a band with a cheesehead) that Sammy refused to sing this stuff. "I need to FEEL the song." I actually think this was bullshit. The guy has never had standards. It's not about "feeling" the song. I just think the guy was fucking lazy. End of story. He couldn't be bothered to learn stuff like LITTLE GUITARS or HOUSE OF PAIN. That said...we can be thankful that he didn't sing this material. Everything he tried, from JUMP (that live album version that came out in the early 90s took everything great about that song and fucking destroyed it...I remember him singing something like, "Jump on, jump on, jump on!"...disgusting) to UNCHAINED...I saw a clip of him desecrating RUNNIN' WITH THE DEVIL from the 2004 "reunion" tour...it was all terrible. He simply didn't "get it." Mind you, Led Zeppelin can be a mysterious, ferocious band. Remember Sammy singing ROCK AND ROLL (Zeppelin) during the LIVE WITHOUT A NET film? (Don't pretend you've never seen it...I bet a majority of the posters here have seen that video.) Hagar sings it and, just like CVH, destroys it.

4) Sammy has a big mouth. The debut and 1984 each sold more than 11 or 12 million copies by the 1990s...who knows where they're at now? (It would be great to get the deluxe box sets everyone else, even Zeppelin, are doing...but not VH...they suck and treat their fans like shit.) CVH sold more than MOST bands in history. And Sam takes little statistics and then runs with them, and then turns them into something else...the guy is apparently worth more than $100 million (well, that's what HE says) and yet, he needs to lie and brag bullshit because of some sick insecurity. Yes, Van Hagar was the only line-up of that band to have No. 1 LPs (all four of Sam's LPs with them)...but not because that line-up is MORE popular. That's bullshit. 1984 was considerably bigger than 5150...and everyone but Sammy knows it. 1984 didn't hit #1 because THRILLER kept beating it, week after week. But charts are all relative...who's selling the most a certain week, and all that. And WHY was 5150 their first #1 album? Because it came off the back of the band's BIGGEST album ever, 1984...people were curious. And yes, the band stayed popular with Sam...but if Dave had never left, the next four albums they sold with him in the band would all have hit #1. They didn't start having #1 albums because Sam joined. They started having #1 albums because 1984 was SO huge and only didn't hit #1 because of THRILLER, the biggest album in the world ever (maybe STILL, if one doesn't count The Eagles' GREATEST HITS, right?) CVH sold something like around 50 million copies. (Actually, I read 57 million a few years ago, though that seems a little high.) Sam's biggest seller with them was 5150, maybe 6 million copies. A real estimate for Sam would be maybe 15 million copies, and that's being generous. Albums like BALANCE still only sold maybe 2 or 3 million copies. ANYWAY, listen to Sam talk...or check out his book (actually, don't...though there are some fun stories of Ed being a drunken nutjob). He makes statements like, "We (Van Hagar) sold more albums than they ever did with Dave," which couldn't be more of a lie. "We (Van Hagar) had #1 hit after #1 hit"...Van Hagar NEVER had a #1 hit. Simply not true. A complete lie on Sam's part. Van Halen (surprisingly) only ever had one #1 hit, and that's JUMP. SO...CVH had a #1 hit. Van Hagar never did. "We were the biggest band in the world"...NEVER with Sam. Ever. Van Halen really only were ONE OF the biggest bands in the world during one period: from 1984-85, on the back of 1984. Sam also says things like, "We sold 100 million albums." As of 2019, Van Halen has sold around 80 million copies worldwide. Yes, the band: VAN HALEN. Not "Van Hagar." They've made 12 studio albums total (so, not counting two compilation albums and two live albums). Hagar the Horrible was on 4 of those studio albums. So, for him to say, "We sold 100 million albums" is like me claiming I've had sex with a famous actress because I once jacked off to her. The guy is about as honest as a politician. A bad one. His big mouth made fans of CVH hate the guy. He's not humble. He's not honest. He had NO respect for the legacy. Look at Ronnie James Dio...sure, he made a few negative comments about Ozzy over the years, but usually only if Ozzy said something about him...and usually he shied away from that. And he was happy to play A TON of classic Sabbath during his tenures in the band...the only time he didn't was when they reunited a few years before his death and called the band HEAVEN AND HELL. That's how most replacement singers SHOULD act. But not Hagar. He literally said in more than one interview that Van Halen was good because of the guitar-playing. He would outright act like Dave butchered these amazing albums and the music was the saving grace. And that's crap...and disrespectful to the legacy of the band he was LUCKY to be part of...and disrespectful to fans.

5) The fans. Look at people who claim they actually prefer Van Hagar. Look at them. Read their words (go to the Links and you can get a real sampling of some of this writing "talent"). They're often illiterate. They say stupid things like, "Dave's lyrics make no sense" or "Dave's lyrics are embarrassing" or "Dave's lyrics are silly." OK...not every word Dave has ever written is perfect. BUT MOST OF 'EM ARE. Take the lyrics of LITTLE GUITARS and then compare them to BLACK 'N' BLUE. BLACK 'N' BLUE is a great instrumental...classic Eddie. Damn, this would have sounded good on 1984. But the lyrics are about sex...unimaginative sex, calling the girl a "bitch" and saying [i]inventive[/] things like "slip 'n' slide" and "push it in." Hagar was the kind of guy who was perfect to write those nameless songs that would fill up soundtracks to sports, beach, high school, teenage drama & bad action movies from the 80s. Faceless songs that all sound the same...NO identity. Nobody remembers these songs. They say NOTHING new. They are, in fact, ALL THE SAME SONG. And to this day, those Van Hagar fans act like these are great lyrics. They think RIGHT NOW is provocative. They think DREAMS is a lyric that makes you think. But it doesn't. I don't like Bon Jovi. I'm sorry. I don't. I think they are generic crap...for soccer moms. Their lyrics are hallmark cards for ex-jocks and cougars. And that's what Hagar is good at. Read the words to COULD THIS BE MAGIC? or LIGHT UP THE SKY or LITTLE GUITARS or THE TROUBLE WITH NEVER or ME WISE MAGIC to a cougar or a soccer mom. These people will get confused. They'll complain that the lyrics should get to the point. AND THAT'S THE POINT. BECAUSE ALL OF SAMMY'S LYRICS GET TO THE POINT IN THE FIRST LINE...and then he makes the point over and over again for the rest of the song, with no variation and nothing else to say. He's probably allergic to foreplay (though, Jesus, I really don't want any details and I really don't want to know). He probably shoots his wad within five seconds and then brags to the girl that he just gave her the best sex she's ever had and that 100 million people have enjoyed having sex with him and nobody on Earth has ever had sex as well as he did. In fact, he probably cheers for himself when he comes. Hagar and Hagar fans are the kind of people who are on the 6th beer and then declare to the other person, "This is awesome...we're getting drunk! COOL!" Uh...thanks for the insight. Not exactly word-trigonometry. As thought-provoking as tar drying on a driveway. These are people who probably think they come up with a new idea when they decide to drink a cold beer in the hot sun. THEY HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER!!

And on and on. I've spent years on this site (taking year-long breaks in recent years before I come back for a week or two) talking about why Hagar fans are sheep (I did not invent that term...FORD did). I've discussed ad nauseum why Hagar and his fans are silly, tiny people. And I try to be honest...I don't write off ALL of that stuff. I like to hear Eddie play. For the last three months of 2020, I listened to a lot of Van Hagar because I listened to a lot of Eddie Van Halen playing guitar. It hasn't even fully hit me that he's truly gone (sort of like it hasn't full hit me that Chris Cornell, one of my favorite singers and songwriters, is dead). I don't hate all Van Hagar. I like a lot of the music. I even like a few things he did on those albums...a FEW things. But for the most part, those albums are lost opportunities...every one of them. Because they could have been making them with Dave. And that's partly his fault too.

I'm still broken up that Eddie is dead. And I'm getting angrier every month that we're STILL not getting any archive releases, even though I know for a fact (after watching Sunset Sound Studios YouTube series) that a 4-CD box set of CVH outtakes, including the 30 Warner Bros. demos completely remixed, was completed by Warner Bros. staff but the band veto'd its release in the mid-00s because they had Hagar briefly back in the band...BUT IT'S STILL SITTING THERE COMPLETED, MIXED, EVERYTHING. I want archive Van Halen releases. I want outtakes. Jams. Solos. And I want live material. I now KNOW it exists. I know there's a pro-shot 1984 video from the Capitol Center that was in Noel Monk's personal collection...just sitting there. I know the band filmed/recorded virtually every show during those multiple tours with Dave from 2007-2015. I want to hear/see some of this stuff. The band is over. WHY THE HELL AREN'T WE GETTING THAT STUFF NOW?

And no MAMMOTH WVH is going to fill that gap. That music isn't Van Halen. Doesn't sound like VH. Frankly, I don't like it. It's dull, generic music. Bloodline does not equal the same brilliance. I don't particular like his singing. His songwriting is really not very good. He's not a particularly interesting guitar-player. And, frankly, he doesn't seem like a very nice guy. It seems like at least once a week, there's another indignant, angry comment toward a fan...he acts like he resents that people love his dad's band so much. I just don't get it. And MAMMOTH WVH is not the sequel to the band VAN HALEN. They don't exist in the same universe. Not even close. He can keep doing his career. Nobody's asking him to be the one who puts together archive releases. Nobody's asking him to mix and compile the studio outtakes or the live material. Nobody's asking him to remaster the 1984 Capitol Center footage. Nobody's asking him to put together a new album from all the instrumentals/jams that his Dad left in the 5150 vaults. OK...maybe the last one, he could/should be involved. But frankly, they should get a producer/engineer to do that...and have said producer/engineer to work with Alex & Mikey (or, I guess Wolfie) on polishing up the rhythm section from 5150 vault material...and then have the producer/engineer be the one to get Dave down to record new vocals on some of this vault stuff.

The point is, I want something. I don't want to sit around waiting for a 500 lb. rich kid (he's not even a kid...he's 31) to do his tours/albums before he deems his dad's legacy worthy of his time. Let a real producer/engineer work on it. Warner Bros. will be more than happy to release it.

But Sam...he has nothing to add to any of that. And his fans probably won't care anyway. SO...please don't let Sam anywhere near these vault materials...

[Nitro Express]

Dave in the early days was a force to be reckoned with. That scream of his was great. I watched an old show from 1978 and was blown away. I forgot just how amazing VH was in the early days. Dave was screaming his ass off.