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Thread: Why Van Hagar Pales In Comparison

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    Post Why Van Hagar Pales In Comparison

    I was in the grocery store a couple days ago and heard "Why Can't This Song Be Over" while shopping and it suddenly hit me: therein lies the reason that Van Hagar sucks. It's wholly acceptable to parents, and therefore children.

    All those songs were made with sales and popularity in mind. There was no drive. No desperation, no real convicted, committed passion in the music. It had no spirit. That's why those songs may have sold a lot in its time but are used as background music at the grocery store now. And it makes sense because Sam is a businessman. His concern is selling and being liked by as many people as possible.

    I've never heard Classic VH played in a setting like that. I don't even think I've heard Jump in the supermarket, which is inarguably their most commercially appealing track. Because the music was made with heart. They were real artists.

    And now it's all caught up with Hagar as he pathetically tries to get a piece of VH's legacy all throughout the press, using Ed's death as the vehicle to do so. He's realized that nobody cares about Van Hagar and is turning everything up to 11 to try and cover up for it. He's a sad, miserable man indeed.
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    I wan’t to hear House of Pain and Sinner’s Swing in the super market.
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    The thing that baffles me are those fans who actually prefer Van Hagar over CVH and actually think its better -- yes better.
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    In order to have balance in the universe... you have to have both good taste and bad taste. Music is not exempt from this natural law of how shit works.

    Van Hagar provides ample balance of suckage to offset the amazing greatness of original recipe Van Halen!!

    Class dismissed...
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    I want to know - cause I can't recall - whether there were any VH fans that actually listened to Hagar pre-Van Hagar.

    I can remember some digging I Cant Drive 55 in '84 but that's about it.

    To be straight up fans of Sam and go see his shows I don't think there was any cross over.

    CVH fans were into Ozzy, Sabbath/Dio, Priest, etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie Velvet View Post

    I can remember some digging I Cant Drive 55 in '84 but that's about it.
    Which was just a fucking novelty song anyway - sub Weird Al.
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    I liked the first Montrose album but not for Hagar's singing... the guitar work. Didn't care for any of Hagar's solo material after he left Montrose.

    Prior to CVH coming out I was into a lot of the 60's/70's music that preceded them during my middle/high school years in the early 70's... Hendrix, Black Sabbath, Steppenwolf, Bad Company, Led Zeppelin, Motorhead, ACDC, Aerosmith, Deep Purple, Pink Floyd, Skynyrd, Nazareth, ZZ Top, etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie Velvet View Post
    The thing that baffles me are those fans who actually prefer Van Hagar over CVH and actually think its better -- yes better.
    There are also plenty of people that preferred Chris de Burgh or Phil Collins to CVH. Some people like meh beige music usually because they have very limited musical knowledge. They would read Jackie Collins and listen to Van Hagar and it's all fine just irritating that you accidentally have to read about it or have to even put the C in CVH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie Velvet View Post
    I want to know - cause I can't recall - whether there were any VH fans that actually listened to Hagar pre-Van Hagar.

    I can remember some digging I Cant Drive 55 in '84 but that's about it.

    To be straight up fans of Sam and go see his shows I don't think there was any cross over.

    CVH fans were into Ozzy, Sabbath/Dio, Priest, etc
    Sam’s best song is One Way to Rock. Probably his best performance as a singer was Heavy Metal. Sam shot his load with those two. Everything else is poodle turds.

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    Van Halen’s fan base was very broad. They were good enough of a band and fun enough to appeal to a broad audience. You Really Got Me was a huge song in the day and it appealed to people who normally wouldn’t like a hard rock band.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZahZoo View Post
    I liked the first Montrose album but not for Hagar's singing... the guitar work. Didn't care for any of Hagar's solo material after he left Montrose.

    Prior to CVH coming out I was into a lot of the 60's/70's music that preceded them during my middle/high school years in the early 70's... Hendrix, Black Sabbath, Steppenwolf, Bad Company, Led Zeppelin, Motorhead, ACDC, Aerosmith, Deep Purple, Pink Floyd, Skynyrd, Nazareth, ZZ Top, etc...
    And KISS. KISS were the big live rock act of the mid 70’s. All the kids my age wanted to play like Ace Frehley. What was on the radio was soft rock and disco. 78 is when some good stuff started to happen. Punk and New Age were rolling in. Hard Rock was coming back. Some really original and creative stuff was blooming and with MTV we got the 80’s thing which was a fun ride.

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    Stuff just happens. You have new technology and mediums and social trends. It all combines to create art and something delivers it to the masses. The internet and social media turned the world on it’s head. Not necessarily in good ways. I think it’s fragmented society and brought the worst out of people and are we really informed? It’s created a dysfunctional fantasy world full of whiners.

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    Toss the phone and party!

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    There were many reasons the entire Van Hagar-era was offensive:

    1) The lyrics were terrible. I listen to CVH albums and am blown away (first) by what Dave is doing, vocally & lyrically. Afterwards, I start to appreciate the firepower of the rhythm section AND especially the creativity of Eddie's riffs & chords. It's a COMPLETE package. With Van Hagar, the man is boring. Generic. He never has an original thought. I listen to something like GOOD ENOUGH and I don't know what he's trying to say...WELL, he's not trying to say anything. He's literally taking lyrics from other bad hard rock songs and regurgitating them. His melodies are often extremely generic...like he's just finding notes that fit in the key. THUS, when I listen to Van Hagar (which, I'm not going to lie like some people...I still put it on sometimes, especially these last couple of years, to listen to Eddie), I immediately and primarily am listening to the music. Then, I get SAD. I listen to it and lament and think about what it would have been like had Dave sung over some of this music.

    2) "Sammy can sing over anything!" So could Dave. It wasn't about "could." It was actually "would." Dave refused to sing over anything. Dave would listen to certain pieces of music and say, "Not good enough." End of story. Sammy has no taste. He just wants to throw anything down (like doing the lyrics for Twister on the hood of the car, running in to sing them and then flying back home) so that he can leave and not be "working" any more.

    3) Eddie promised in several interviews when Sammy joined that the band would play "any and all" of the classic Van Halen catalog. He did not lie. It was not his fault (well, it was his fault for continuing to be in a band with a cheesehead) that Sammy refused to sing this stuff. "I need to FEEL the song." I actually think this was bullshit. The guy has never had standards. It's not about "feeling" the song. I just think the guy was fucking lazy. End of story. He couldn't be bothered to learn stuff like LITTLE GUITARS or HOUSE OF PAIN. That said...we can be thankful that he didn't sing this material. Everything he tried, from JUMP (that live album version that came out in the early 90s took everything great about that song and fucking destroyed it...I remember him singing something like, "Jump on, jump on, jump on!"...disgusting) to UNCHAINED...I saw a clip of him desecrating RUNNIN' WITH THE DEVIL from the 2004 "reunion" tour...it was all terrible. He simply didn't "get it." Mind you, Led Zeppelin can be a mysterious, ferocious band. Remember Sammy singing ROCK AND ROLL (Zeppelin) during the LIVE WITHOUT A NET film? (Don't pretend you've never seen it...I bet a majority of the posters here have seen that video.) Hagar sings it and, just like CVH, destroys it.

    4) Sammy has a big mouth. The debut and 1984 each sold more than 11 or 12 million copies by the 1990s...who knows where they're at now? (It would be great to get the deluxe box sets everyone else, even Zeppelin, are doing...but not VH...they suck and treat their fans like shit.) CVH sold more than MOST bands in history. And Sam takes little statistics and then runs with them, and then turns them into something else...the guy is apparently worth more than $100 million (well, that's what HE says) and yet, he needs to lie and brag bullshit because of some sick insecurity. Yes, Van Hagar was the only line-up of that band to have No. 1 LPs (all four of Sam's LPs with them)...but not because that line-up is MORE popular. That's bullshit. 1984 was considerably bigger than 5150...and everyone but Sammy knows it. 1984 didn't hit #1 because THRILLER kept beating it, week after week. But charts are all relative...who's selling the most a certain week, and all that. And WHY was 5150 their first #1 album? Because it came off the back of the band's BIGGEST album ever, 1984...people were curious. And yes, the band stayed popular with Sam...but if Dave had never left, the next four albums they sold with him in the band would all have hit #1. They didn't start having #1 albums because Sam joined. They started having #1 albums because 1984 was SO huge and only didn't hit #1 because of THRILLER, the biggest album in the world ever (maybe STILL, if one doesn't count The Eagles' GREATEST HITS, right?) CVH sold something like around 50 million copies. (Actually, I read 57 million a few years ago, though that seems a little high.) Sam's biggest seller with them was 5150, maybe 6 million copies. A real estimate for Sam would be maybe 15 million copies, and that's being generous. Albums like BALANCE still only sold maybe 2 or 3 million copies. ANYWAY, listen to Sam talk...or check out his book (actually, don't...though there are some fun stories of Ed being a drunken nutjob). He makes statements like, "We (Van Hagar) sold more albums than they ever did with Dave," which couldn't be more of a lie. "We (Van Hagar) had #1 hit after #1 hit"...Van Hagar NEVER had a #1 hit. Simply not true. A complete lie on Sam's part. Van Halen (surprisingly) only ever had one #1 hit, and that's JUMP. SO...CVH had a #1 hit. Van Hagar never did. "We were the biggest band in the world"...NEVER with Sam. Ever. Van Halen really only were ONE OF the biggest bands in the world during one period: from 1984-85, on the back of 1984. Sam also says things like, "We sold 100 million albums." As of 2019, Van Halen has sold around 80 million copies worldwide. Yes, the band: VAN HALEN. Not "Van Hagar." They've made 12 studio albums total (so, not counting two compilation albums and two live albums). Hagar the Horrible was on 4 of those studio albums. So, for him to say, "We sold 100 million albums" is like me claiming I've had sex with a famous actress because I once jacked off to her. The guy is about as honest as a politician. A bad one. His big mouth made fans of CVH hate the guy. He's not humble. He's not honest. He had NO respect for the legacy. Look at Ronnie James Dio...sure, he made a few negative comments about Ozzy over the years, but usually only if Ozzy said something about him...and usually he shied away from that. And he was happy to play A TON of classic Sabbath during his tenures in the band...the only time he didn't was when they reunited a few years before his death and called the band HEAVEN AND HELL. That's how most replacement singers SHOULD act. But not Hagar. He literally said in more than one interview that Van Halen was good because of the guitar-playing. He would outright act like Dave butchered these amazing albums and the music was the saving grace. And that's crap...and disrespectful to the legacy of the band he was LUCKY to be part of...and disrespectful to fans.

    5) The fans. Look at people who claim they actually prefer Van Hagar. Look at them. Read their words (go to the Links and you can get a real sampling of some of this writing "talent"). They're often illiterate. They say stupid things like, "Dave's lyrics make no sense" or "Dave's lyrics are embarrassing" or "Dave's lyrics are silly." OK...not every word Dave has ever written is perfect. BUT MOST OF 'EM ARE. Take the lyrics of LITTLE GUITARS and then compare them to BLACK 'N' BLUE. BLACK 'N' BLUE is a great instrumental...classic Eddie. Damn, this would have sounded good on 1984. But the lyrics are about sex...unimaginative sex, calling the girl a "bitch" and saying [i]inventive[/] things like "slip 'n' slide" and "push it in." Hagar was the kind of guy who was perfect to write those nameless songs that would fill up soundtracks to sports, beach, high school, teenage drama & bad action movies from the 80s. Faceless songs that all sound the same...NO identity. Nobody remembers these songs. They say NOTHING new. They are, in fact, ALL THE SAME SONG. And to this day, those Van Hagar fans act like these are great lyrics. They think RIGHT NOW is provocative. They think DREAMS is a lyric that makes you think. But it doesn't. I don't like Bon Jovi. I'm sorry. I don't. I think they are generic crap...for soccer moms. Their lyrics are hallmark cards for ex-jocks and cougars. And that's what Hagar is good at. Read the words to COULD THIS BE MAGIC? or LIGHT UP THE SKY or LITTLE GUITARS or THE TROUBLE WITH NEVER or ME WISE MAGIC to a cougar or a soccer mom. These people will get confused. They'll complain that the lyrics should get to the point. AND THAT'S THE POINT. BECAUSE ALL OF SAMMY'S LYRICS GET TO THE POINT IN THE FIRST LINE...and then he makes the point over and over again for the rest of the song, with no variation and nothing else to say. He's probably allergic to foreplay (though, Jesus, I really don't want any details and I really don't want to know). He probably shoots his wad within five seconds and then brags to the girl that he just gave her the best sex she's ever had and that 100 million people have enjoyed having sex with him and nobody on Earth has ever had sex as well as he did. In fact, he probably cheers for himself when he comes. Hagar and Hagar fans are the kind of people who are on the 6th beer and then declare to the other person, "This is awesome...we're getting drunk! COOL!" Uh...thanks for the insight. Not exactly word-trigonometry. As thought-provoking as tar drying on a driveway. These are people who probably think they come up with a new idea when they decide to drink a cold beer in the hot sun. THEY HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER!!

    And on and on. I've spent years on this site (taking year-long breaks in recent years before I come back for a week or two) talking about why Hagar fans are sheep (I did not invent that term...FORD did). I've discussed ad nauseum why Hagar and his fans are silly, tiny people. And I try to be honest...I don't write off ALL of that stuff. I like to hear Eddie play. For the last three months of 2020, I listened to a lot of Van Hagar because I listened to a lot of Eddie Van Halen playing guitar. It hasn't even fully hit me that he's truly gone (sort of like it hasn't full hit me that Chris Cornell, one of my favorite singers and songwriters, is dead). I don't hate all Van Hagar. I like a lot of the music. I even like a few things he did on those albums...a FEW things. But for the most part, those albums are lost opportunities...every one of them. Because they could have been making them with Dave. And that's partly his fault too.

    I'm still broken up that Eddie is dead. And I'm getting angrier every month that we're STILL not getting any archive releases, even though I know for a fact (after watching Sunset Sound Studios YouTube series) that a 4-CD box set of CVH outtakes, including the 30 Warner Bros. demos completely remixed, was completed by Warner Bros. staff but the band veto'd its release in the mid-00s because they had Hagar briefly back in the band...BUT IT'S STILL SITTING THERE COMPLETED, MIXED, EVERYTHING. I want archive Van Halen releases. I want outtakes. Jams. Solos. And I want live material. I now KNOW it exists. I know there's a pro-shot 1984 video from the Capitol Center that was in Noel Monk's personal collection...just sitting there. I know the band filmed/recorded virtually every show during those multiple tours with Dave from 2007-2015. I want to hear/see some of this stuff. The band is over. WHY THE HELL AREN'T WE GETTING THAT STUFF NOW?

    And no MAMMOTH WVH is going to fill that gap. That music isn't Van Halen. Doesn't sound like VH. Frankly, I don't like it. It's dull, generic music. Bloodline does not equal the same brilliance. I don't particular like his singing. His songwriting is really not very good. He's not a particularly interesting guitar-player. And, frankly, he doesn't seem like a very nice guy. It seems like at least once a week, there's another indignant, angry comment toward a fan...he acts like he resents that people love his dad's band so much. I just don't get it. And MAMMOTH WVH is not the sequel to the band VAN HALEN. They don't exist in the same universe. Not even close. He can keep doing his career. Nobody's asking him to be the one who puts together archive releases. Nobody's asking him to mix and compile the studio outtakes or the live material. Nobody's asking him to remaster the 1984 Capitol Center footage. Nobody's asking him to put together a new album from all the instrumentals/jams that his Dad left in the 5150 vaults. OK...maybe the last one, he could/should be involved. But frankly, they should get a producer/engineer to do that...and have said producer/engineer to work with Alex & Mikey (or, I guess Wolfie) on polishing up the rhythm section from 5150 vault material...and then have the producer/engineer be the one to get Dave down to record new vocals on some of this vault stuff.

    The point is, I want something. I don't want to sit around waiting for a 500 lb. rich kid (he's not even a kid...he's 31) to do his tours/albums before he deems his dad's legacy worthy of his time. Let a real producer/engineer work on it. Warner Bros. will be more than happy to release it.

    But Sam...he has nothing to add to any of that. And his fans probably won't care anyway. SO...please don't let Sam anywhere near these vault materials...
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    Dave in the early days was a force to be reckoned with. That scream of his was great. I watched an old show from 1978 and was blown away. I forgot just how amazing VH was in the early days. Dave was screaming his ass off.

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    I have a friend who is a casual Van Halen fan. I think he owns the Best Of CD and that's it. Anyway, if he comes over and I happened to have some random CVH deep cut or even Dave's solo stuff playing in the background from the PC he always asks: "What VAN HALEN song is this? Sounds cool."

    If some reason it happens to be Van Hagar song (since I have those too on my PC) he asks something like "... Is THIS Van Halen? Or Whitesnake?" He doesn't recognise Hagar's voice out of every other 80s bands singers but he immediately knows Roths.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikk View Post
    They've made 12 studio albums total (so, not counting two compilation albums and two live albums). Hagar the Horrible was on 4 of those studio albums. So, for him to say, "We sold 100 million albums" is like me claiming I've had sex with a famous actress because I once jacked off to her.


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    I think Sam does all this "rock n roll roadshow" crap now, with literally a video with another celebrity releasing every week as they're drinking tequila, to overcompensate for the fact that his music didn't really contribute anything. Generic. Made to sell and appease the record companies and critics. Dave always talked about "having the spirit" as an artist. Sam's heart was in the idea of being an artist, not actually being one. He's got a lot of toys and money and publicity but he's an empty soul. It's such a shame that the Brothers wasted 10 years tooling around with that sellout, particularly when they called it "Van Halen."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MasonL View Post
    I think Sam does all this "rock n roll roadshow" crap now, with literally a video with another celebrity releasing every week as they're drinking tequila, to overcompensate for the fact that his music didn't really contribute anything. Generic. Made to sell and appease the record companies and critics. Dave always talked about "having the spirit" as an artist. Sam's heart was in the idea of being an artist, not actually being one. He's got a lot of toys and money and publicity but he's an empty soul. It's such a shame that the Brothers wasted 10 years tooling around with that sellout, particularly when they called it "Van Halen."
    They should have went with "Van Hagar" when WB suggested it.

    But of course the brothers knew re-establishing a band name is hard work and it had the chances of imploding upon release but keeping their established band name wasn't.

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    Another “Roth era destroys Hagar era, end of discussion” discussion. Sam ain’t the only one who can’t let things go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heater View Post
    Another “Roth era destroys Hagar era, end of discussion” discussion. Sam ain’t the only one who can’t let things go.
    Sam is a HUGE attention whore. He never disappoints. He's going to run his mouth again and again making a fool out of himself and giving us plenty of stuff to laugh about. He's going to be in his 80's soon enough. He's going to be real pathetic then trying to act cool and shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    Sam is a HUGE attention whore. He never disappoints. He's going to run his mouth again and again making a fool out of himself and giving us plenty of stuff to laugh about. He's going to be in his 80's soon enough. He's going to be real pathetic then trying to act cool and shit.
    He has looked desperate for quite a while. I wonder how much he really communicated with Ed when they “made up”. The riff Ed gave him in that dream is……something. Before Ed died, the way he was angling to get back in, reminds me of the way Sebastian Bach is still holding out for a reunion with his old band……

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heater View Post
    Another “Roth era destroys Hagar era, end of discussion” discussion. Sam ain’t the only one who can’t let things go.
    ...Says the guy who comes and trolls at a Roth website...

    Your post reminded me that my house is cold and I need to turn on the heat, Heater.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heater View Post
    The riff Ed gave him in that dream is……something.
    Yeah, that was a pretty fucked-up news story. I couldn't believe he claimed such a thing.

    If Sam has such a great life, why is he calling Alex FIVE TIMES since Eddie died?

    Why can't he do an interview without talking about Van Halen AGAIN and AGAIN?

    Just the other day, he started talking about how the TWISTER song he and Eddie did that never got released needs to come out. It didn't get released back then because Eddie thought his lyrics were terrible...something about "I want to touch your shining star" or something. All I know is, when I've been with a chick, I wasn't looking for a shining star. The lights were usually out and no star was shining up the room...fucking douchebag.

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    Ed didn't give Sammy a riff from the other side of the grave... sheesh. Hagar had a brain fart... associated it to Edward and created a convenient reality. Delusion at it's best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikk View Post
    ...Says the guy who comes and trolls at a Roth website...

    Your post reminded me that my house is cold and I need to turn on the heat, Heater.
    Good one. Glad you finally took the third “k” off your name…..you don’t need it…..some things are quite obvious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZahZoo View Post
    Ed didn't give Sammy a riff from the other side of the grave... sheesh. Hagar had a brain fart... associated it to Edward and created a convenient reality. Delusion at it's best.
    Sam lost me when he said he was visited by a group of aliens called The Nine and they downloaded stuff into his mind. I’ve been all over the world including Antarctica. I even camped out in a lava tube for a week. I’ve seen the curve of the earth from the summit of a tall mountain, I’ve been in jungles, I’ve been under the ocean. I’ve been in forrests so thick Sasquatch should be there but he never showed up. Aliens? Never saw any. Reptile people? Nope. But Sam see’s all sorts of things. The freakiest things I’ve ever seen were usually at parties during my mis-spent youth. Ski-resort towns over New Years can get pretty freaky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie Velvet View Post
    I want to know - cause I can't recall - whether there were any VH fans that actually listened to Hagar pre-Van Hagar.

    I can remember some digging I Cant Drive 55 in '84 but that's about it.

    To be straight up fans of Sam and go see his shows I don't think there was any cross over.

    CVH fans were into Ozzy, Sabbath/Dio, Priest, etc
    I never ran across anyone pre-Van Hagar who was a Hagar fan.

    Hagar had some Gold records prior to VOA, so obviously he had some fans, but none I knew.

    Difference between Van Halen with Roth and what followed was Van Halen lost the fury when Dave left. Even the Van Halen stuff with Hagar that was harder edged seemed like the band was making an effort to rock, rather than a natural energy.

    I think a lot of that I can put down to Van Halen as a band...they got as big as they were ever going to get with the 1984 album and tour. That level of success is what they worked so hard toward for a decade, and after they reached that summit the band kinda coasted and got lazy to a degree, perhaps because by then they could get away with it. The band didn't want to work as hard or as often once they reached the apex.

    Once Dave and Ted were no longer in the fold there was nobody left to challenge Ed and perhaps make the comment that a given bit of music could be better or wasn't quite up to snuff or needed some work. Thus, you got a bunch of Van Hagar stuff that sounded from top-to-bottom like the entire group was going through the motions.
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    To be honest early Van Halen was a very high energy act. I watched a show from 1978 and Roth was just screaming his ass off and Ed was just blazing. Night after night for nine months and then time to record a new album during two weeks. That ain’t going to hold up year after year. You are going to slow down and be more tame. That’s what happened. VH aged but it didn’t age well. Especially after the Hagar fungus latched onto it.

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    It could well have been the case where even if Roth had stayed on in 1985 that Van Halen wouldn't have been able to sustain the same level of quality those fist 6 albums had. I'm not sure Ed's synth pop leanings and Roth's showtune leanings would have necessarily meshed well. You look at other even bigger rock acts and see where there was a creative peak followed by a lot of material in later years that didn't quite measure up. The Rolling Stones come to mind. The Who by the time Who Are You rolled around or Led Zeppelin when In Through The Out Door was released were unable to put out albums that didn't have filler on them.

    I'd like to think had Roth stayed in 1985 the band could have come up with a few more great albums. But at least the band went out on top.

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    There was a dip in energy.

    They had all aged a bit and got over that youthful desire to shove what they had in your face and basically explode in sound. Listen to especially the first three albums - they are explosive. They are made of pure energy.

    But eventually EVH wanted to play keyboards. He wanted to opt out of the gunslinger guitar thing that was just hotting up in the early to mid 80s and would signal this in interviews by saying things like his favourite guitarist was ... they guy who played guitar with Bryan Adams, etc.

    Then there was Hagar, who was even older and you could say, set in his ways. He was almost 40 by then, which at the time seemed quite old. The peak of his energy on record was 'Good Rockin' Tonight' with Montrose, recorded in '73. Twelve years later he had been through a whole MOR career, half a dozen albums or so, on Capitol Records.

    Then there was the songs. The combination of DLR and EVH worked because they came from different places in terms of what they listened to. DLR used to say that the way he sang - and more important the kind of vocal melodies he came up with - was not like what someone who listened to the same stuff as Ed listened to would come up with. So there was a particular blend of influences that went into the songs.

    With Hagar, it was a different blend and he was already pretty middle of the road, so ... bring on the fucking ballads. No surprise there.

    It pales cos as an entity it is older and staler and has basically been neutered. So, as much as I can say it is all down to Hagar, it is also just that real vital rock 'n' roll is mostly a young person's game. Young and hungry. And for VH type of high enery music that matters.

    By 85-86 that was all in the past.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    It could well have been the case where even if Roth had stayed on in 1985 that Van Halen wouldn't have been able to sustain the same level of quality those fist 6 albums had. I'm not sure Ed's synth pop leanings and Roth's showtune leanings would have necessarily meshed well. You look at other even bigger rock acts and see where there was a creative peak followed by a lot of material in later years that didn't quite measure up. The Rolling Stones come to mind. The Who by the time Who Are You rolled around or Led Zeppelin when In Through The Out Door was released were unable to put out albums that didn't have filler on them.

    I'd like to think had Roth stayed in 1985 the band could have come up with a few more great albums. But at least the band went out on top.
    In the early days Van Halen except for Mike were single guys. You become a different person when you get married and have nice things at home and your curiosity of what’s out there has been satisfied. Dave was worried the marriages would hurt the band’s image and steal the fire. Ed got pissed because Dave didn’t want wives on the road.
    Last edited by Nitro Express; 11-13-2022 at 10:55 PM.

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    Dave likened the Van Hagar backstage to a yacht club. Ha! Ha!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    It could well have been the case where even if Roth had stayed on in 1985 that Van Halen wouldn't have been able to sustain the same level of quality those fist 6 albums had. I'm not sure Ed's synth pop leanings and Roth's showtune leanings would have necessarily meshed well. You look at other even bigger rock acts and see where there was a creative peak followed by a lot of material in later years that didn't quite measure up. The Rolling Stones come to mind. The Who by the time Who Are You rolled around or Led Zeppelin when In Through The Out Door was released were unable to put out albums that didn't have filler on them.

    I'd like to think had Roth stayed in 1985 the band could have come up with a few more great albums. But at least the band went out on top.
    Could you imagine Dave singing Dreams or Love Walks In? Ha! Ha! It would be funny as hell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    Could you imagine Dave singing Dreams or Love Walks In? Ha! Ha! It would be funny as hell.
    Thank God Dave stuck with those hard hitting metal songs, Just a Gigolo, California Girls, Goin’ Crazy…..you know, ones that were too heavy for Fair Warning.

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    I'd like to think had Roth stayed in 1985 the band could have come up with a few more great albums. But at least the band went out on top.[/QUOTE]—Nitro

    None of Roth’s solo albums were anything to write home about, fairly cliche, in fact, which makes sense as by the time 1984 rolled around Dave was an absolute cliche himself. Do you really think Ed’s music would’ve been that different if Roth hadn’t walked? Come on.

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    I tend to agree with both of Heater's posts.
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    Ed's adaptation to Roth's sense of melody and vice-versa would have been different compared to the crap he churned out with Hagar. This is evident in the 2 new songs released on the Best Of record with Dave.

    Dave's creative timing signatures and melodic sense are far more technically complex than the simpleton nonsense Hagar writes. That's the difference...

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    Quote Originally Posted by VHscraps View Post
    There was a dip in energy.

    They had all aged a bit and got over that youthful desire to shove what they had in your face and basically explode in sound. Listen to especially the first three albums - they are explosive. They are made of pure energy.

    But eventually EVH wanted to play keyboards. He wanted to opt out of the gunslinger guitar thing that was just hotting up in the early to mid 80s and would signal this in interviews by saying things like his favourite guitarist was ... they guy who played guitar with Bryan Adams, etc.

    Then there was Hagar, who was even older and you could say, set in his ways. He was almost 40 by then, which at the time seemed quite old. The peak of his energy on record was 'Good Rockin' Tonight' with Montrose, recorded in '73. Twelve years later he had been through a whole MOR career, half a dozen albums or so, on Capitol Records.

    Then there was the songs. The combination of DLR and EVH worked because they came from different places in terms of what they listened to. DLR used to say that the way he sang - and more important the kind of vocal melodies he came up with - was not like what someone who listened to the same stuff as Ed listened to would come up with. So there was a particular blend of influences that went into the songs.

    With Hagar, it was a different blend and he was already pretty middle of the road, so ... bring on the fucking ballads. No surprise there.

    It pales cos as an entity it is older and staler and has basically been neutered. So, as much as I can say it is all down to Hagar, it is also just that real vital rock 'n' roll is mostly a young person's game. Young and hungry. And for VH type of high enery music that matters.

    By 85-86 that was all in the past.
    Good points all around. By the mid-80's Ed was in the state of sit around and listen to the old lady. I still think, however, that his use of keyboards could have resulted in great music with Roth on board. Because Dave never settled down or got married. He was always in tune with the lifestyle of it. Even listening to Jump-there's a lot more bite and edge to that song than the keyboard crap that comes from 5150 and OU812.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heater View Post
    Good one. Glad you finally took the third “k” off your name…..you don’t need it…..some things are quite obvious.
    LMAO!! Is that why you think I'm called RIKK?? You obviously eat Special K and see Ks in your sleep. I have a canvas of MLK's "I have a dream" speech in the stairwell leading to my mancave, but you think I'm K because of the KKK?

    Whatever floats your boat, weirdo. I need to turn on the heater again.

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