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Thread: Why Van Hagar Pales In Comparison

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    Sam lost me when he said he was visited by a group of aliens called The Nine and they downloaded stuff into his mind. I’ve been all over the world including Antarctica. I even camped out in a lava tube for a week. I’ve seen the curve of the earth from the summit of a tall mountain, I’ve been in jungles, I’ve been under the ocean. I’ve been in forrests so thick Sasquatch should be there but he never showed up. Aliens? Never saw any. Reptile people? Nope. But Sam see’s all sorts of things. The freakiest things I’ve ever seen were usually at parties during my mis-spent youth. Ski-resort towns over New Years can get pretty freaky.
    NITRO, I truly believe you've seen all of these things. And I also truly believe you've never seen aliens who ended up downloading a number into your brain.

    But HAGAR, he seems to see and know a lot of things with little effort. Aliens? Methinks he got hit in the face one too many times during his boxing days, during which he was the best boxer in the world and had 100 million knockouts...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZahZoo View Post
    Ed didn't give Sammy a riff from the other side of the grave... sheesh. Hagar had a brain fart... associated it to Edward and created a convenient reality. Delusion at it's best.
    Indeed. Anybody who couldn't bother to call someone up while alive and send them a riff to sing to WOULD NOT then put real effort into appearing beyond the grave to send a riff to someone he knew would do nothing with it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MasonL View Post
    Good points all around. By the mid-80's Ed was in the state of sit around and listen to the old lady. I still think, however, that his use of keyboards could have resulted in great music with Roth on board. Because Dave never settled down or got married. He was always in tune with the lifestyle of it. Even listening to Jump-there's a lot more bite and edge to that song than the keyboard crap that comes from 5150 and OU812.
    Agreed.

    They certainly would've continued in that fashion.

    However, by 1985 the music that Ed was coming up with for whatever reason lost the fire. And Dave had trouble with it. And he most likely attributed it to the drug and alcohol abuse Ed was into.

    Its one thing to socially drink or do blow while on tour its another thing to be boozing all day when a guy like Dave wanted to get going on the new record.

    There were several things that led to the collapse of course.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heater View Post
    Thank God Dave stuck with those hard hitting metal songs, Just a Gigolo, California Girls, Goin’ Crazy…..you know, ones that were too heavy for Fair Warning.
    Ah, but you're making another mistake, Heatee...most of the honest posters at this site (AND THAT'S ONE THING I LIKE ABOUT THIS SITE COMPARED TO THE LINKS IS THAT PEOPLE TEND TO BE HONEST) do not claim that Dave's solo career was as excellent as the 6-pack...many would say that both parties fucked up big time when they parted.

    I personally don't listen to CRAZY FROM THE HEAT very often...I have to be in a special 80s nostalgia mood to put that one on.

    I do listen to EAT 'EM AND SMILE a good amount. That was a killer band...great songs. But I'M EASY and THAT'S LIFE (I actually love Sinatra's original...I'm a Sinatra fan, shoot me) are pretty skippable.

    But no one has ever played to me a Van Hagar track that rocks as uncompromisingly as SHYBOY. And yeah, make fun of it...but I like GOIN' CRAZY. It's a bit cheesy...but I like it.

    Generally, Dave's solo career is the mixed bag that Van Hagar's discography is...but I am honest in at least stating I have still put the Van Hagar records on in some sort of remembrance of Eddie since 2000...

    But the Dave solo stuff has..."moments"...I remember telling POJO that SENSIBLE SHOES is maybe my favorite Dave song...ever. I remember waiting for him to laugh at me and he agreed...it's the shit.

    There ain't one song like SENSIBLE SHOES in the Van Hagar catalog.

    (I remember around October 2020, my wife and I were making dinner...VH was playing on the ol' iTunes...FEELIN' by Van Hagar was playing...my wife was quietly stirring the ground meat in the frying pan when she jerked her head upright and stammered, "Politicians...smoking crack?...what the hell is this idiot singing about? Put on PANAMA or something!!" ...I laughed. I could never have married a woman who actually thought I CAN'T DRIVE 55 was a folk-hero anthem.)

    I love YANKEE ROSE, but the production kills it. Eddie knew how to use the keyboard as a bed instrument...it was there to provide the riff and give you something to sing on. Old school VH fans will shit on me...but I consider JUMP and I'LL WAIT just as much classic Van Halen songs as anything else. YANKEE ROSE was ruined by cheesy keyboard overdubs...a guitar song in which the producer chooses to overdub hockey arena keyboard overdubs under the guitar riff to add 80s commercial value. YANKEE ROSE needs a guitar-heavy remix...BUT FUCK YOU IF YOU DON'T THINK YANKEE ROSE IS A GREAT SONG...CUZ IT IS.

    David Lee Roth needed Van Halen almost as much as Van Halen needed him.

    But if one listens to some of Dave's work with John 5...take a listen to DLR BAND from 1998...I was one of maybe 20,000 people who bought that album. But it is a killer, intense 51-minutes of blues-rock music with zip. That album tore VHIII a new asshole...knocked it out in the first round.

    I had a rare listen to VHIII recently...heard the song ONE I WANT. Gary sings, "Black man, he's looking for justice"...I found that pretty disgusting. Is that all black people do? Run around looking for justice? I thought some of them just try and raise a family and live their lives? Most black friends I have certainly mention unequal treatment by cops or years of racism/segregation in this country...but "looking for justice" is not what makes up their sole experience in America...though it would be just if they felt that way. "White man...tryin' to get a tan"...I did an ancestry-test: I am 35% Swedish, 10% Norwegian, 5% Scottish, 35% Armenian, 5% Egyptian, 5% a bunch of stuff...the second-half of stuff won and I don't need a tan. And my wife is Irish, French, German, Scottish, English...she sure needs a tan but doesn't ever mention it or go to tanning salons. I get what Gary is trying to sing, but it's just moronic...for so many reasons. He's making a list of different kinds of "man" and summing up their existence, experience and passion in little two-to-five-word slogans...as if it's somehow innovative and intelligent lyric-writing...and it comes out dumber than even anything Cheesehead ever wrote. And then Gary sings, "Ape man, ain't nobody's uncle..." Seriously, is that what Van Halen lyrics became reduced to? Unsubtle attacks on evolution-theory? Why is this idiot (who sang that awful MORE THAN WORDS song) writing lyrics on a Van Halen album?

    I like Whitesnake. I like Def Leppard fine. I even like Mötley Crüe. I outgrew most of this music by my teens and started listening to punk rock. By my late-teens, I outgrew most of the punk rock because I started seeking bands with greater musicianship (but still listen to my old DEAD KENNEDYS records and a few other things). I still drag out my Whitesnake records from the late-70s/early-80s because Blackmore is still my favorite guitar-player (right up there with Eddie and, yes, Ace Frehley...still love him) and I'm addicted to all things in the Deep Purple family tree.

    BUT...Van Halen always transcended all this stuff for me. Those six records were on another level. When the lyrics seemed dumb, they were winking. When they didn't seem dumb but just existed, they were LITTLE GUITARS or LOSS OF CONTROL...or sometimes they were just steeped in the blues, like THE FULL BUG or TAKE YOUR WHISKEY HOME... They say Roth didn't write love songs? IN A SIMPLE RHYME is a love song. But there's nothing generic about it.

    Dave lost the writing partner who inspired him to write things like LITTLE GUITARS or ROMEO DELIGHT when the band broke up in 1985. Eddie lost the writing partner who had to be driven around in his car with the instrumental blasting from the car speakers until the right lyrics came out. He traded Roth in for a singer who was happy to write the lyrics on the hood of the car sitting in the driveway, in a rush because the "singer" had a plane to catch. That's the difference. I don't think Sammy had the ability to write lyrics like Dave's if he tried. But occasionally, Sammy could write something that at least sounded inspired. Y'know, MARCHING TO MARS is actually not a bad song. The lyrics aren't great but at least they're better than most anything he wrote at 5150 (I may be biased because he wrote that song with Mickey Hart and I'm an unapologetic Dead fan...so is Dave, I believe).

    Some people on here claim that Sam never did a damn thing in his life. They've certainly earned that opinion. Me? I think his tequila is damned good...I drank a good amount one night and enjoyed the taste, had a helluva buzz going and then had a pretty weak hangover the next morning (the best booze, in my humble opinion, doesn't lay on the worst hangovers...if you stay pure and stick with one poison). Also, Montrose has a hallowed spot in my 6,000+ CD collection and massive iTunes catalog (I don't like streaming, sorry...I make my own radio station in my home and I also like liner notes). Montrose's debut LP is a pure slab of amazing 70s hard rock, Templeman honing his skills to become the amazing producer he would become for the six-pack half-a-decade later. Hagar sounds young, hungry, inspired...he CANNOT write great lyrics, but the lyrics aren't particularly embarrassing. MAKE IT LAST, ROCK CANDY, BAD MOTOR SCOOTER, ROCK THE NATION (ok, the title of that one makes me cringe) are great hard rock songs. There's a reason Cheesehead still plays these songs all the time in his sets. They really are good. I even think some of the tracks on his first handful of late-70s solo albums are ok...you have to search for them among all the generic hard rock, but there are some good tunes. I even remember some unique Van Morrison cover he does (not a Van Morrison song I remember from one of Van's many 1970s LPs) that I like.

    Point is: I've done my research. I live to listen to all kinds of music and find the gems in the dust. Hagar has done things here and there that he has nothing to be embarrassed about. But for the most part, he did most of the pretty-good things he did before he ever walked into 5150.

    I will say that LITTLE WHITE LIES, off said MARCHING TO MARS album, is also a pretty good slab of rock/blues...lyrically, he's got nothing to be embarrassed about...those brothers sure screwed him over. And musically, it's a pretty-damn good piece of work...the arrangement, in which the electric guitars keep threatening to crunch and finally do on the last verse...that's some pretty good work. I remember FORD way back in the day admitting that this isn't a bad piece o' work.

    Point is, on a Roth site...with Van Halen the most important thing Roth did during his entire career...talking Sam vs. Dave is a tried-and-true conversation that will never die. And I've always veered towards the side that does not pretend everything is so cut-and-dry. I know what I like. I know what's true. I'm not one of those Roth fans who has mp3s of every single radio show Dave did in 2006 and listens to them religiously. I listen to his solo albums, but I don't put them on nearly as often as I put on classic Van Halen (though I listen to SENSIBLE SHOES, SHYBOY, anything off DLR BAND with pretty large regularity). And I take NO SHAME in enjoying Montrose's debut LP. I have the 2nd Montrose LP, but I don't think I've ever listened to it the whole way through...I could be wrong.

    I come to Rotharmy because I really enjoy the music conversation...AND because I like a lot of the people who STILL (thank God) post here. Since MAX died, I get a twinge of sadness when I'm at this place because I was so used to knowing he'd be here talking about all things "stellar" and posting some great new recipe... He and I were true friends in real life. I probably logged 500+ hours on the phone with that guy. We were really close back in the day. There's a deep guilt I still live with that I never phoned him those last few weeks of his life...I think he just went faster than I thought he was going to...but in retrospect, I had enough of a warning, and I'm just going to have to live with the guilt of that one. But yeah, we were friends. I talked him through his breaking up with his wife. We talked personal stuff...but we couldn't help ourselves and still spent 60% of those 500+ phone hours talking...music. Including Van Halen.

    **AND...anyone making fun of people for still debating Roth vs. Cheesehead here need to REMIND THEMSELVES that they've taken the time to go to a Roth site to criticize people for having said conversation. Which is the bigger waste of time? Having the conversation OR trolling those having the conversation?**

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZahZoo View Post
    Ed's adaptation to Roth's sense of melody and vice-versa would have been different compared to the crap he churned out with Hagar. This is evident in the 2 new songs released on the Best Of record with Dave.

    Dave's creative timing signatures and melodic sense are far more technically complex than the simpleton nonsense Hagar writes. That's the difference...
    What Dave did with ME WISE MAGIC still blows my mind...26 (holy shit!) years later. I remember hearing that song for the first time, thinking, "Ed's music is nothing like the music he wrote on the six-pack. It's way more complex...almost like challenging the singer to come up with anything to sing on this. But somehow, Dave came up with the goods! How the hell did Dave think of these melodies?"

    The chorus to ME WISE MAGIC sadly never gets spoken about the way things like PANAMA do (don't get me wrong...PANAMA is amazing). But that ME WISE MAGIC chorus is...all these years later...still stunning! I really wanted them to pull that song out during the reunion years...but even I can see that it would have been a bitch to pull out live. And the masses that came to those Dave/VH tours 2007-2015 were waiting for RUNNIN' WITH THE DEVIL and JUMP, not ME WISE MAGIC.

    It's a shame. Imagine how great Van Halen's 1998 album would have been had the brothers' egos not have been so bloody huge in the mid-90s. When VHIII bombed as big as it did, it knocked Ed's ego down a notch or twenty...and he became a chemical mess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heater View Post
    Do you really think Ed’s music would’ve been that different if Roth hadn’t walked? Come on.
    I do sincerely think that the album 5150 wouldn't have musically been THAT different. I think Dave would've rejected a couple of things...but for the most part, it would have been the same music.

    The problem was what was chosen to sing on it. GET UP would have been a stunner had Dave been around for it.

    The argument made here by many of us, Heater, is that the six-pack was where it's at. I don't just blame Ed for the band being over after that. I think Dave's ego was so enormous that he went and did a really stupid thing: he left the band. He should've stuck around.

    Some fans knock 1984 for the new sounds on it. I love it...it was my first VH album. I was eight-years-old. I love that through all the new sounds Ed was producing, he and Dave worked at it and found a meeting place and made a brilliant album.

    Dave made a ton of mistakes after he left the band...he DID become a self-parody.

    But I listen to ME WISE MAGIC and think, wow...that's the sound. They did it. It took 12 years...but they did it.

    And A DIFFERENT KIND OF TRUTH, I don't listen to it the way I listen to newer albums by some vintage acts and sort of pretend to like it because I'm nostalgic. I genuinely love A DIFFERENT KIND OF TRUTH. In fact, it's not my 7th-favorite VH album. It's probably my 4th or 5th-favorite VH album. I listen to STAY FROSTY, OUTTA SPACE, BEATS WORKIN', SHE'S THE WOMAN, CHINA TOWN, YOU AND YOUR BLUES, BULLETHEAD, HONEYBABYSWEETIEDOLL, BIG RIVER, BLOOD AND FIRE and genuinely enjoy them the same way I enjoy those early albums. No irony. No apology. No pretending.

    And anytime idiots like Eddie Trunk try and whine that so much of the music on that album is "old songs," I wonder just how much these people know anything about the band's history. They were recycling old riffs and music on all of those albums...even the Sammy ones. TAKE ME BACK from BALANCE is based on a pre-1978 piece of music Ed had tried with Dave. Point is, I don't care. It's Van Halen. It's a new (well, it WAS new in 2012) Van Halen album. Most of Dave's lyrics are new. And I like them. Yes, he needed them to make an album like that. And they needed him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie Velvet View Post
    However, by 1985 the music that Ed was coming up with for whatever reason lost the fire. And Dave had trouble with it. And he most likely attributed it to the drug and alcohol abuse Ed was into.
    And now I'll agree with Vinnie and almost contradict my earlier argument. YES...another reason for the band's downfall was Ed just coming up with some stuff that lost the fire.

    Ain't nobody gonna tell me that SUCKER IN A 3-PIECE is a band truly inspired. That song is a...jam...at best. I'm sure they had a ton of stuff like that just sitting in the vault during the Dave years. But they clearly didn't release stuff this uninspired during those years. There's nothing memorable in that thing. I've heard it enough times over the past decades...and it's one of those rare Van Halen songs that I could not sing back to you the riff or anything Hagar is singing unless I went to listen to it again. It's completely unmemorable. How that did not end up an outtake is unreal.

    I'm also a huge LITTLE FEAT fan. Great, great band. Musicianship unrivaled. But their cover of APOLITICAL BLUES is truly unmemorable. They lost any of the danger that's in the original song and sounded like a poor bar band. How did that thing get released?

    None of us can know for sure...it's possible Dave would have heard the music for SUCKER IN A 3-PIECE and turned it into something great. We'll never know. But I listen to songs like CAN'T STOP LOVIN' YOU or MAN ON A MISSION and am just plain shocked that this ever left the recording studio onto a real album. It's really generic, boring stuff.

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    I never cared for Steve Vai’s tone much. On the Dave albums it sounds like an 80’s video game. But it kinda goes with the cartoonish songs and videos. I listen to that early solo Dave stuff for a good laugh. Yankee Rose and Going Crazy are funny songs. Vai’s video game tone works.
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    Rock and Roll is sonic junk food.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikk View Post
    I do sincerely think that the album 5150 wouldn't have musically been THAT different. I think Dave would've rejected a couple of things...but for the most part, it would have been the same music.

    The problem was what was chosen to sing on it. GET UP would have been a stunner had Dave been around for it.
    Ok I agree. But let's be honest, Ed on 5150 is for the most part lazy.

    What was he doing on Get Up?
    I just went on youtube and listened to it as it had been years since I last heard it.

    Its not even a riff and that standard finger tapping solo. It sounded more of a parody of Eddie than actually him. Throw in Hagar and his lame attempt to put together lyrics under a faster tempo song and its so bad. Like really bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie Velvet View Post
    Ok I agree. But let's be honest, Ed on 5150 is for the most part lazy.

    What was he doing on Get Up?
    I just went on youtube and listened to it as it had been years since I last heard it.

    Its not even a riff and that standard finger tapping solo. It sounded more of a parody of Eddie than actually him. Throw in Hagar and his lame attempt to put together lyrics under a faster tempo song and its so bad. Like really bad.
    I'll give you that: GET UP is nothing particularly original.

    But that's not the one that I think is particularly shameful...GOOD ENOUGH is the one I think is really derivative. It's just a bad hard rock riff...any idiot could sing something on it. And did!

    Again, Dave could've taken that and done something great with it.

    Think about it: PANAMA is great because Dave came up with great stuff on it. Without the vocals, hooks & melodies, PANAMA could've sounded like a lot of 80s hard rock. There's a reason it's timeless...

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    Yup it's all about the vocal melodies especially in a band where the music was usually being written first.

    Roth would have made Get Up and Good Enough way better. Then you have a few Foreigner songs for the housewives and total shit like Inside. The biggest Van Hagar album 5150 massively overachieved it's pretty mediocre and if it hadn't been coming off 1984 and a wave of people wanting to play guitar like Eddie Van Halen it would have sold a fraction of what it did.

    Every Van Hagar album sold fewer than the previous one and it was all a massive decline from 1984.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    Every Van Hagar album sold fewer than the previous one and it was all a massive decline from 1984.
    I cannot believe this does not get pointed out enough. IT'S FUCKING TRUE, INNIT?? Every single Van Hagar album sold less than the predecessor. There's a good reason for that.

    And while I've been admitting that I've listened to ALL Van Halen since Eddie died, one album I have NOT put on is that fucking FOR UNLAWFUL CARNAL KNOWLEDGE. That is the album that is the absolute pits, in my opinion. That album actually got put into the Sheep Pen at one point (an album, not a poster!). Eddie is positively sleepwalking on this one. The riffs, the solos...everything is mid-paced and boring. No imagination.

    Christ, even BALANCE and the dreaded VH III had better guitar-playing on them than F.U.C.K. did...and they fucking sucked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie Velvet View Post
    Ok I agree. But let's be honest, Ed on 5150 is for the most part lazy.

    What was he doing on Get Up?
    I just went on youtube and listened to it as it had been years since I last heard it.

    Its not even a riff and that standard finger tapping solo. It sounded more of a parody of Eddie than actually him. Throw in Hagar and his lame attempt to put together lyrics under a faster tempo song and its so bad. Like really bad.
    Hellooooo Baybeeeeee! Rrrrow Rrrrrow Weeee Weeee Weeee Dah Dah Da Da Da Wee Wee

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    If you could turn cheese, glitter and anal lube into sound it would be Van Hagar.

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    Hi. I’m Sammy Hagar and I was the lead singer in Van Halen. Alex has a stick up his ass. It’s all his fault why I can’t attention whore while riding on an Eddie Van Halen tribute float pimping my booze brands.

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    I don’t know who’s more lame. Sammy Hagar or his fans. I doubt there’s anyone in the audience who weighs under 200 pounds. Just a fat mass of smelly human chowder full of artery clogging Sammy chow and ethanol from a dirty Mexican distillery ran by cartel owned slaves.

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    Sammy is so proud all his shit comes from a third world narco state ran by thugs. Nothing runs in Mexico without a shakedown. Buy Hagar crap you fund gangsters.

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    The biggest gangster being Sammy himself. He won’t shoot you but he will kill you or at least make you seriously ill with stuff he calls his music. It might even cause some to develop homosexual fantasies. The dude must have escaped from a government lab.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie Velvet View Post
    Ok I agree. But let's be honest, Ed on 5150 is for the most part lazy.

    What was he doing on Get Up?
    I just went on youtube and listened to it as it had been years since I last heard it.

    Its not even a riff and that standard finger tapping solo. It sounded more of a parody of Eddie than actually him. Throw in Hagar and his lame attempt to put together lyrics under a faster tempo song and its so bad. Like really bad.
    Hagar would have had no clue what to do on stuff like I'm The One, Sinner's Swing, As Is, or Hot for Teacher. No clue whatsoever. They would've turned out like Source of Infection, one of the worst songs ever written. Just screeching over the music and ruining what good is left from Ed's guitar playing.

    Just goes to show how important those melodies. I can't stand when people say "it's all about Eddie anyways, it doesn't matter who's singing." Uh, yes it does. Inspired melodies like Panama make that song timeless compared to a generic, can't even hum it to you off the top of my head vocal like Good Enough. And from then on in the Spam era, it was generic, uninspired, made to sell garbage. FUCK is so bland.
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    I want to thank you guys for providing a lot of excellent reading material in this thread.

    I'm old, so I was listening to Montrose (thanks to a friends older brother with Mindblower speakers in his car. Anyone remember those?) before VH was known nationwide. I liked Montrose. I saw Hagar open for Boston on March 8, 1979 at Henry Levitt Arena in Wichita, KS. It wasn't Montrose, but he had a pretty fucking good band. Gary Pihl on guitar and Bill Church on bass. It wouldn't be fair to say every piece of material Hagar came out with, was shit. Like Rikk or someone else posted, he's got some decent stuff. Even Dave complemented his longevity way back in 2002 on the Radio Rodeo tour, when they were doing the Dave and Sam tour. Speaking of the Radio Rodeo tour, I still think Dave's version of "Tin Cup Chalice" from the WRIF studio is nothing short of stellar. It was almost like one upping the Jimmy Buffet wannabe at his own game. I have to believe that was calculated. If not, still brilliant.

    As far as his pre Van Hagar solo material, he's got some decent stuff in that catalogue too. I took a hit of acid and attended the VOA show. He sat literally right in front of me on the edge of the stage and played "Bad Motor Scooter" on a slide guitar. My hobby in those days, and actually still today, was taking concert photo's. I didn't think enough of Hagar to even take my camera. Looking back, I'm actually shocked I didn't. I was front row and probably should have taken pictures. It was an okay show.

    I am by no means a huge fan of Dave's material for the first few years after VH, nor am I a huge fan of most of the Van Hagar era material. There are a few songs I like from each, but rarely listen to either. I think both incarnations rode the wave of 1984. I was not happy with the selection of Vai as Dave's guitarist. I am a riff guy. I like riffs more than solo's. I think the solo is more icing on the cake of the riff. For me, Vai just wasn't consistently a great riffer. I just don't think he had the right chemistry with Dave, and maybe even the rest of the band. Vai has never been able to last in a true band format and for good reason. He's a solo guy. There are a few killer tunes though. I wish Dave had selected Steve Stevens, or maybe even an unknown. I love the DLR Band album and think this is his best post VH album. Well, it's a toss up between that and ALAE.

    Dave and Clichegar both have their share of cheesy stuff. But the first 6 and then the 7th Van Halen albums are in a league of their own. Dave has openly stated he doesn't care for "Me Wise Magic". I think that may just be from the sour taste in his mouth for getting ditched right after, for Cherone. "Me Wise Magic" is a killer tune. I wonder if he has changed his opinion of it now that all this time has passed, and so has Ed? Dave and Ed had a chemistry that neither were able to duplicate without each other. Yes, they both made some good music without each other, but nothing close to what the original Van Halen did.

    As I mentioned earlier, I am old. I am in fact getting to the desperate stage where I fucking want an official video release of a live show, from the glory days. 1984 or before. Shame on that fucking Wolfgang for caring more about his own career, than his Father's legacy. Like someone else said, he could absolutely turn the process over to someone that is more than capable of handling it. But hey, this is a dumbfuck that has no idea what a true band is. Even after all this touring, his "band" isn't good enough for him, to go into the studio and record an album. Mr Big Shot has to do it all himself. He must pay them well otherwise I have to believe they would bail. Frankly, his music sucks. I'd rather listen to Clichegar than the generic shit he comes up with. Yes, I would love to hear all the stuff in the vault too, but I have been longing for an official live video release, forever. For fucks sake. I can go get a live concert video from virtually every band ever, but this one. Why is that? Those old live shows are fucking LEGEND! HEY WOLFGANG, QUIT BEING A SPOILED WHINY CUNT AND GIVE VAN HALEN FANS WHAT THEY WANT! It's fucking sad that you want to be more like your Dad, but are nothing but a clone of your miserable Mom.

    Sorry for rambling on and being all over the map, but you guys have all made some interesting posts in this thread. Well, everyone but NickDelusional. He's too busy posting stupid political shit, than to be bothered with anything VH related.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasonL View Post
    Hagar would have had no clue what to do on stuff like I'm The One, Sinner's Swing, As Is, or Hot for Teacher. No clue whatsoever. They would've turned out like Source of Infection, one of the worst songs ever written. Just screeching over the music and ruining what good is left from Ed's guitar playing.

    Just goes to show how important those melodies. I can't stand when people say "it's all about Eddie anyways, it doesn't matter who's singing." Uh, yes it does. Inspired melodies like Panama make that song timeless compared to a generic, can't even hum it to you off the top of my head vocal like Good Enough. And from then on in the Spam era, it was generic, uninspired, made to sell garbage. FUCK is so bland.
    Agreed on all points.

    Interesting you mention As Is.

    As far as a more recent example of Dave and Ed's chemistry and its clearly all there in that song. Only Dave could put together words like that to Ed's fast boogie. Hagar couldn't. I mean no singer could. Only Dave.

    Which is what made the CVH albums and ADKOT so great.

    Even Ed himself always complimented on how Dave could somehow manage to throw in melodies and lyrics to some of his more 'out there' music.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    I want to thank you guys for providing a lot of excellent reading material in this thread.

    I'm old, so I was listening to Montrose (thanks to a friends older brother with Mindblower speakers in his car. Anyone remember those?) before VH was known nationwide. I liked Montrose. I saw Hagar open for Boston on March 8, 1979 at Henry Levitt Arena in Wichita, KS. It wasn't Montrose, but he had a pretty fucking good band. Gary Pihl on guitar and Bill Church on bass. It wouldn't be fair to say every piece of material Hagar came out with, was shit. Like Rikk or someone else posted, he's got some decent stuff. Even Dave complemented his longevity way back in 2002 on the Radio Rodeo tour, when they were doing the Dave and Sam tour. Speaking of the Radio Rodeo tour, I still think Dave's version of "Tin Cup Chalice" from the WRIF studio is nothing short of stellar. It was almost like one upping the Jimmy Buffet wannabe at his own game. I have to believe that was calculated. If not, still brilliant.

    As far as his pre Van Hagar solo material, he's got some decent stuff in that catalogue too. I took a hit of acid and attended the VOA show. He sat literally right in front of me on the edge of the stage and played "Bad Motor Scooter" on a slide guitar. My hobby in those days, and actually still today, was taking concert photo's. I didn't think enough of Hagar to even take my camera. Looking back, I'm actually shocked I didn't. I was front row and probably should have taken pictures. It was an okay show.

    I am by no means a huge fan of Dave's material for the first few years after VH, nor am I a huge fan of most of the Van Hagar era material. There are a few songs I like from each, but rarely listen to either. I think both incarnations rode the wave of 1984. I was not happy with the selection of Vai as Dave's guitarist. I am a riff guy. I like riffs more than solo's. I think the solo is more icing on the cake of the riff. For me, Vai just wasn't consistently a great riffer. I just don't think he had the right chemistry with Dave, and maybe even the rest of the band. Vai has never been able to last in a true band format and for good reason. He's a solo guy. There are a few killer tunes though. I wish Dave had selected Steve Stevens, or maybe even an unknown. I love the DLR Band album and think this is his best post VH album. Well, it's a toss up between that and ALAE.

    Dave and Clichegar both have their share of cheesy stuff. But the first 6 and then the 7th Van Halen albums are in a league of their own. Dave has openly stated he doesn't care for "Me Wise Magic". I think that may just be from the sour taste in his mouth for getting ditched right after, for Cherone. "Me Wise Magic" is a killer tune. I wonder if he has changed his opinion of it now that all this time has passed, and so has Ed? Dave and Ed had a chemistry that neither were able to duplicate without each other. Yes, they both made some good music without each other, but nothing close to what the original Van Halen did.

    As I mentioned earlier, I am old. I am in fact getting to the desperate stage where I fucking want an official video release of a live show, from the glory days. 1984 or before. Shame on that fucking Wolfgang for caring more about his own career, than his Father's legacy. Like someone else said, he could absolutely turn the process over to someone that is more than capable of handling it. But hey, this is a dumbfuck that has no idea what a true band is. Even after all this touring, his "band" isn't good enough for him, to go into the studio and record an album. Mr Big Shot has to do it all himself. He must pay them well otherwise I have to believe they would bail. Frankly, his music sucks. I'd rather listen to Clichegar than the generic shit he comes up with. Yes, I would love to hear all the stuff in the vault too, but I have been longing for an official live video release, forever. For fucks sake. I can go get a live concert video from virtually every band ever, but this one. Why is that? Those old live shows are fucking LEGEND! HEY WOLFGANG, QUIT BEING A SPOILED WHINY CUNT AND GIVE VAN HALEN FANS WHAT THEY WANT! It's fucking sad that you want to be more like your Dad, but are nothing but a clone of your miserable Mom.

    Sorry for rambling on and being all over the map, but you guys have all made some interesting posts in this thread. Well, everyone but NickDelusional. He's too busy posting stupid political shit, than to be bothered with anything VH related.
    Dave actually did go to Steve Stevens first. He offered him the gig.

    Stevens of course ended up not accepting it and said that he was committed to Billy Idol so declined the offer from Dave.

    That's when Dave went to Vai. Vai wasn't his first choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    The biggest gangster being Sammy himself. He won’t shoot you but he will kill you or at least make you seriously ill with stuff he calls his music. It might even cause some to develop homosexual fantasies. The dude must have escaped from a government lab.
    See the Aryan bozo with the red guitar
    Parachute on the White House lawn
    Gonna bomb the commies with his air guitar
    So dumb he can't drive 55

    Like Bing Crosby before them
    GOVERNMENT MUSIC
    Too idiotic to be real
    GOVERNMENT MUSIC
    You want it loud?
    We'll make sure it goes nowhere
    So you won't get ideas

    - Dead Kennedys
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie Velvet View Post
    Dave actually did go to Steve Stevens first. He offered him the gig.

    Stevens of course ended up not accepting it and said that he was committed to Billy Idol so declined the offer from Dave.

    That's when Dave went to Vai. Vai wasn't his first choice.
    I know, but for whatever reason, they didn't get together. Maybe Stevens just didn't want to try to live up to basically being Ed's replacement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    I know, but for whatever reason, they didn't get together. Maybe Stevens just didn't want to try to live up to basically being Ed's replacement.
    Yeah who knows. But I believe him when he says he was committed to Idol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie Velvet View Post
    Yeah who knows. But I believe him when he says he was committed to Idol.
    ...except for the fact that he bailed on Idol after one more album. Though they would reunite several years later, of course. And in those years in between, Stevens worked with Vince Neil of all people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    ...except for the fact that he bailed on Idol after one more album. Though they would reunite several years later, of course. And in those years in between, Stevens worked with Vince Neil of all people.
    Replacing Mick Mars is not exactly the same as replacing EVH...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    I want to thank you guys for providing a lot of excellent reading material in this thread.

    I'm old, so I was listening to Montrose (thanks to a friends older brother with Mindblower speakers in his car. Anyone remember those?) before VH was known nationwide. I liked Montrose. I saw Hagar open for Boston on March 8, 1979 at Henry Levitt Arena in Wichita, KS. It wasn't Montrose, but he had a pretty fucking good band. Gary Pihl on guitar and Bill Church on bass. It wouldn't be fair to say every piece of material Hagar came out with, was shit. Like Rikk or someone else posted, he's got some decent stuff. Even Dave complemented his longevity way back in 2002 on the Radio Rodeo tour, when they were doing the Dave and Sam tour. Speaking of the Radio Rodeo tour, I still think Dave's version of "Tin Cup Chalice" from the WRIF studio is nothing short of stellar. It was almost like one upping the Jimmy Buffet wannabe at his own game. I have to believe that was calculated. If not, still brilliant.

    As far as his pre Van Hagar solo material, he's got some decent stuff in that catalogue too. I took a hit of acid and attended the VOA show. He sat literally right in front of me on the edge of the stage and played "Bad Motor Scooter" on a slide guitar. My hobby in those days, and actually still today, was taking concert photo's. I didn't think enough of Hagar to even take my camera. Looking back, I'm actually shocked I didn't. I was front row and probably should have taken pictures. It was an okay show.

    I am by no means a huge fan of Dave's material for the first few years after VH, nor am I a huge fan of most of the Van Hagar era material. There are a few songs I like from each, but rarely listen to either. I think both incarnations rode the wave of 1984. I was not happy with the selection of Vai as Dave's guitarist. I am a riff guy. I like riffs more than solo's. I think the solo is more icing on the cake of the riff. For me, Vai just wasn't consistently a great riffer. I just don't think he had the right chemistry with Dave, and maybe even the rest of the band. Vai has never been able to last in a true band format and for good reason. He's a solo guy. There are a few killer tunes though. I wish Dave had selected Steve Stevens, or maybe even an unknown. I love the DLR Band album and think this is his best post VH album. Well, it's a toss up between that and ALAE.

    Dave and Clichegar both have their share of cheesy stuff. But the first 6 and then the 7th Van Halen albums are in a league of their own. Dave has openly stated he doesn't care for "Me Wise Magic". I think that may just be from the sour taste in his mouth for getting ditched right after, for Cherone. "Me Wise Magic" is a killer tune. I wonder if he has changed his opinion of it now that all this time has passed, and so has Ed? Dave and Ed had a chemistry that neither were able to duplicate without each other. Yes, they both made some good music without each other, but nothing close to what the original Van Halen did.

    As I mentioned earlier, I am old. I am in fact getting to the desperate stage where I fucking want an official video release of a live show, from the glory days. 1984 or before. Shame on that fucking Wolfgang for caring more about his own career, than his Father's legacy. Like someone else said, he could absolutely turn the process over to someone that is more than capable of handling it. But hey, this is a dumbfuck that has no idea what a true band is. Even after all this touring, his "band" isn't good enough for him, to go into the studio and record an album. Mr Big Shot has to do it all himself. He must pay them well otherwise I have to believe they would bail. Frankly, his music sucks. I'd rather listen to Clichegar than the generic shit he comes up with. Yes, I would love to hear all the stuff in the vault too, but I have been longing for an official live video release, forever. For fucks sake. I can go get a live concert video from virtually every band ever, but this one. Why is that? Those old live shows are fucking LEGEND! HEY WOLFGANG, QUIT BEING A SPOILED WHINY CUNT AND GIVE VAN HALEN FANS WHAT THEY WANT! It's fucking sad that you want to be more like your Dad, but are nothing but a clone of your miserable Mom.

    Sorry for rambling on and being all over the map, but you guys have all made some interesting posts in this thread. Well, everyone but NickDelusional. He's too busy posting stupid political shit, than to be bothered with anything VH related.
    I, too, want an official live video. Fuck them when they claim that only three songs were filmed in Oakland in '81. At the very least, the Capitol Center '84 show was sitting in Noel Monk's possessions. It was in an inventory. Something needs to get released.

    VON, I have a pretty stellar version of US FESTIVAL I burned on Blu-ray from YouTube. There is also an excellent copy of Capitol Center '82 and the South American shows have pretty good copies on YouTube now...all way better than the stuff I used to have on VHS. VERY watchable quality.

    I just watched Venezuela '83 (I think it was) one weekend morning with my eight-year-old daughter last week. This girl is the bomb...she's taking guitar lessons and she really listens to music. (She just watched the Zeppelin O2 concert a few weeks ago with my wife and my buddy in our home theater...she sat in my lap when they did STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN and just gazed up at the screen.)

    Point is, I know it sucks as we all get older, my friend, that there's nothing official...but there's a LOT of good VH stuff to check out on YouTube right now.

    I am personally putting together a sort of VH ANTHOLOGY Blu-ray series from all the great footage I've found on YouTube. I've watched a few great shows from the 2012 tour in my home theater...fans putting together multi-cam edits of shows on the A DIFFERENT KIND OF TRUTH Tour. It's good stuff...VERY watchable. There's also a pretty good multi-cam of the band's very last show at the Hollywood Bowl, sync'd to soundboard sound. If I'm not mistaken, one of our posters here put this together.

    Yeah, it sucks there's nothing official. And I want a surround-sound OFFICIAL home release more than pretty much anything else in release-land for ANY band (except maybe a set of Dave-era outtakes). But I'd be happy to post some links to great YouTube stuff if you want.

    Also, the Fresno '78 and '79 shows are amazing...in true HD. The quality is pretty stunning...I don't know how the cat who filmed these got such quality (and sound) in the venue. He also filmed a STREET SURVIVORS-era Lynyrd Skynyrd show (when they were a real band), AC/DC with Bon and a bunch of other great stuff.

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    Also, VON, I agree with you. That first Montrose album was fucking good stuff. I listened to it for the first time maybe 20 years ago and couldn't believe it was Cheesehead. It's a seriously good 70s hard rock album. I was born in the mid-70s...but in my twenties, I started getting into all sorts of 70s rock...like Foghat, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Rick Derringer... I didn't start realizing that Hagar actually had some pretty good solo stuff until more recently...though most of that stopped for me some years before he got in Van Halen. His 70s stuff definitely isn't bad.

    FORD, I am also (however) a huge Dead Kennedys fan. Too bad about DH. I got the IN GOD WE TRUST EP in 1986 and never looked back. I was 11.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twonabomber View Post
    Replacing Mick Mars is not exactly the same as replacing EVH...
    You got that right.

    I think John 5 is an ultra-talented guitar-player and I have to say, I find it disappointing that he is going to be spending his time playing in Mötley Crüe. It's not that I don't like that band...it's just that they are (for me) long done. They already did their Farewell Tour. Do they really need to tour this thing into the ground?

    I'm not going to pretend that John has a busy career making music with Dave...but dammit, they were making good music together.

    And I echo VON and stand by what I said earlier: DLR BAND is Dave's best album. I was so depressed when VH III came out. Then DLR BAND hit us hardcore fans and things felt ok again. It definitely proved that Dave would've had the chops had the reunion gone forward.

    I remember a buddy of mine would not listen to any song but LITTLE TEXAS for like a month straight. It's one of those Dave solo songs that sits up there with almost anything in the Six-Pack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikk View Post
    You got that right.

    I think John 5 is an ultra-talented guitar-player and I have to say, I find it disappointing that he is going to be spending his time playing in Mötley Crüe. It's not that I don't like that band...it's just that they are (for me) long done. They already did their Farewell Tour. Do they really need to tour this thing into the ground?

    I'm not going to pretend that John has a busy career making music with Dave...but dammit, they were making good music together.

    And I echo VON and stand by what I said earlier: DLR BAND is Dave's best album. I was so depressed when VH III came out. Then DLR BAND hit us hardcore fans and things felt ok again. It definitely proved that Dave would've had the chops had the reunion gone forward.

    I remember a buddy of mine would not listen to any song but LITTLE TEXAS for like a month straight. It's one of those Dave solo songs that sits up there with almost anything in the Six-Pack.
    DLR Band is awesome and deserves a re-release (a proper release) from WB.

    I was one of the very few who bought the CD back in '98 and so glad I did. Its classic Dave. All the elements he brought to CVH are there on this album.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikk View Post
    You got that right.

    I think John 5 is an ultra-talented guitar-player and I have to say, I find it disappointing that he is going to be spending his time playing in Mötley Crüe. It's not that I don't like that band...it's just that they are (for me) long done. They already did their Farewell Tour. Do they really need to tour this thing into the ground?

    I'm not going to pretend that John has a busy career making music with Dave...but dammit, they were making good music together.

    And I echo VON and stand by what I said earlier: DLR BAND is Dave's best album. I was so depressed when VH III came out. Then DLR BAND hit us hardcore fans and things felt ok again. It definitely proved that Dave would've had the chops had the reunion gone forward.

    I remember a buddy of mine would not listen to any song but LITTLE TEXAS for like a month straight. It's one of those Dave solo songs that sits up there with almost anything in the Six-Pack.

    Any guy who mixes Hee Haw with Satan can’t be bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    See the Aryan bozo with the red guitar
    Parachute on the White House lawn
    Gonna bomb the commies with his air guitar
    So dumb he can't drive 55

    Like Bing Crosby before them
    GOVERNMENT MUSIC
    Too idiotic to be real
    GOVERNMENT MUSIC
    You want it loud?
    We'll make sure it goes nowhere
    So you won't get ideas

    - Dead Kennedys
    You mean the US Capitol lawn. The White House doesn’t have dome on top. The worst crime is Sammy is wearing parachute pants in that picture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    You mean the US Capitol lawn. The White House doesn’t have dome on top. The worst crime is Sammy is wearing parachute pants in that picture.
    Possibly the worst album cover in history...

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    Yeah, Jello might have messed up that lyric.... but it's punk rock, so "White House lawn" has less syllables than "US Capitol Lawn" so maybe he just went with the one that fit the rhythm of the song better?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Halen View Post
    I tend to agree with both of Heater's posts.
    I don't at all.

    Singing big band covers is nothing like creating new cheesy AOR MOR Foreigner ballads and even if Roth had went with the music to Love Walks In (which I really doubt) or Dreams (more likely but doubtful) with different vocal melodies and lyrics the songs would be unrecognisable.

    Every Roth solo album is better than every Van Hagar album. I was about to say the same thing about Van Halen and Roth solo - you will disagree but I think EEAS is better than Diver Down.
    Last edited by Seshmeister; 11-15-2022 at 10:20 PM.

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    I'd give my left nut to hear "Eat Thy Neighbor", the alleged Dave version of "Summer Nights" that made it to premix demo before he left...
    Hey Jackass! You need to [Register] or log in to view signatures on ROTHARMY.COM!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie Velvet View Post
    Dave actually did go to Steve Stevens first. He offered him the gig.

    Stevens of course ended up not accepting it and said that he was committed to Billy Idol so declined the offer from Dave.

    That's when Dave went to Vai. Vai wasn't his first choice.
    I have so much nostalgia for that time and that summer when EEAS came out that it's difficult to wonder what would have happened with Stevens.

    I only discovered the Steve Stevens Vince Neil thing recently when looking up Rebel Yell because I'm playing it at a charity covers band thing next week, I don't know how I missed it it at the time. It was 1993 not 1986 and who knows how much he influenced the song writing. I think it's likely a Steve Stevens EEAS would have been more like CVH than the Vai one, less exciting to guitarists and possibly more commercially successful. Who knows though....


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    I'd give my left nut to hear "Eat Thy Neighbor", the alleged Dave version of "Summer Nights" that made it to premix demo before he left...
    Me too. If Hagar the Horrible is telling the truth in his latest interview rant, they are currently going through the archives... It would be fascinating if EAT THY NEIGHBOR got released...

    We can all hope and dream.

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