Why Van Hagar Pales In Comparison

[Vinnie Velvet]

Maybe it was planned and Ed's death delayed the release. It's been 2 1/2 years, if they put it out that first year it would scream cash grab. It still might.

The market for Van Hagar just isn't as strong as for CVH.

You can compare the streaming numbers for both and its pretty clear I think. Even the day Ed passed, the top VH albums and songs streamed were all from CVH with exception to Why Cant this Be Love.

[Terry]

Maybe it was planned and Ed's death delayed the release. It's been 2 1/2 years, if they put it out that first year it would scream cash grab. It still might.

But the continual re-releasing of previously released material was taking place well before Ed passed away - to be fair, Van Halen are far from the only band to have this done with their back catalogue - so this latest one is just a continuum.

Which, I dunno if Alex has ultimate control or has to approve of such releases or if WB/Rhino, as you say, has unilateral control over the back catalogue and can issue said re-releases at their discretion.

At least with BOV1 and BOBW the band cooked up some new tracks to accompany the reselling of old material. All these other "remastering" reissues (again, Van Halen obviously not the only band to do this)...honestly, I have as yet to hear a remastered reissue that sounded appreciably better than older versions. Yeah, obviously going from vinyl to cd one can hear a difference, but when a back catalog has been reissued from one cd version to another and then another...I don't hear much difference (if any). Maybe I just have shit in my ears, but the Van Halen cds I bought in the late 1990s still sound fine to me.

People are clearly free to buy what they want, but I've already bought vinyl, cassette and (for some albums) 2 cd versions...for the same fucking Van Halen album! Love that band as much as anybody, but just don't feel the need to keep repurchasing the back catalog. I get that the upcoming LRHRN release is a limited release that will appeal to niche collectors, but in general terms I never bought a ticket on the "fabulous new digital remastered version!" bullshit train.

As always, I blame Sammy Hagar: even if he had nothing to do with it, it's clearly his fault.

[Terry]

The vocal 'melody' is a complete failure. It's barely a song. Being as super kind as I can to Hagar it would have been quite challenging to write a good melody to it and as a lazy mediocre talent there wasn't a prayer he was ever going to manage it. They should have just left it as an instrumental. Roth probably could have managed because that was his real super talent that is rarely mentioned - the super experienced producer on ADKOT did but most people miss it.

A Van Hagar version of Hot For Teacher, I'm The One, Romeo Delight any of those songs would just have been guitar demonstrations not great songs that people still love 40 years later.

Agreed 100% that lyrically and vocally the track doesn't work, but as you say with Hagar...Hagar only had so much game and the limitations of his talent lyrically and in terms of crafting melody...all of that was baked into the cake before he joined Van Halen...Hagar couldn't raise his game up any higher. Not so much out of laziness but because his middle of the road AOR...er...'style' was as good as it was ever gonna get in the runup years to him hooking up with the band.

Look...the loveline is NEVER straight and narrow UNLESS your love is tried and true...(man, I feel ashamed for even knowing just the opening lyrics)

[Seshmeister]

[i]"He continued: “Back then, Eddie and I were doing these crazy acrobatics where I would sing crazy lines, and he'd go nuts on the guitar. When I was in Van Halen, at least in the early days, it was all about having fun.” Hagar added that his latest album, Crazy Times, didn’t include any “silly lyrics,” emphasizing: “I hate to say I did that in Van Halen, but I did.”

Ok I went and had a look at the new poetry of Hagar now that he is taking his lyric writing seriously and not "goofing around" any more.

You may have to prepare yourself in advance for the wonderful use of language, the really profound moments when he brilliantly points out things a lesser artist could never express so beautifully. You may even find that a friend or family member asks you why you are tearing up at the sheer emotion this genius can convey through his art.

Crazy Times

Song by Sammy Hagar and The Circle


Let's put our hands together and pray for rain
To wash us down
Wash us down
To wash us down
Then let the sun come out and shine again
Shining down
Shining down
Just shining down

Baby, what's the worry?
Someday we're all gonna die
Everybody's in a hurry
In these crazy times, yeah

That half-full glass, is empty now
It's upside down
Upside down
It's empty now
We got so jaded, fat and faded
In these crazy times
These crazy times

Baby, what's the worry?
You know we're all gonna die
Everybody's in a hurry
It's these crazy times, yeah
These crazy timеs
Crazy times
Oh

Now baby, what's the worry?
Someday wе all gonna die
Everybody's in a hurry
In these crazy times

Huh
Yeah
Huh
Hey

In these crazy times
These crazy times
Crazy times

[Vinnie Velvet]

Agreed 100% that lyrically and vocally the track doesn't work, but as you say with Hagar...Hagar only had so much game and the limitations of his talent lyrically and in terms of crafting melody...all of that was baked into the cake before he joined Van Halen...Hagar couldn't raise his game up any higher. Not so much out of laziness but because his middle of the road AOR...er...'style' was as good as it was ever gonna get in the runup years to him hooking up with the band.

Look...the loveline is NEVER straight and narrow UNLESS your love is tried and true...(man, I feel ashamed for even knowing just the opening lyrics)

Holy mother of hell are those lyrics bad.

Van Hagar was a complete castration of the brilliance of CVH. Even Ed's guitar wizardry couldn't save it.

[Vinnie Velvet]

But the continual re-releasing of previously released material was taking place well before Ed passed away - to be fair, Van Halen are far from the only band to have this done with their back catalogue - so this latest one is just a continuum.

Which, I dunno if Alex has ultimate control or has to approve of such releases or if WB/Rhino, as you say, has unilateral control over the back catalogue and can issue said re-releases at their discretion.

At least with BOV1 and BOBW the band cooked up some new tracks to accompany the reselling of old material. All these other "remastering" reissues (again, Van Halen obviously not the only band to do this)...honestly, I have as yet to hear a remastered reissue that sounded appreciably better than older versions. Yeah, obviously going from vinyl to cd one can hear a difference, but when a back catalog has been reissued from one cd version to another and then another...I don't hear much difference (if any). Maybe I just have shit in my ears, but the Van Halen cds I bought in the late 1990s still sound fine to me.

People are clearly free to buy what they want, but I've already bought vinyl, cassette and (for some albums) 2 cd versions...for the same fucking Van Halen album! Love that band as much as anybody, but just don't feel the need to keep repurchasing the back catalog. I get that the upcoming LRHRN release is a limited release that will appeal to niche collectors, but in general terms I never bought a ticket on the "fabulous new digital remastered version!" bullshit train.

As always, I blame Sammy Hagar: even if he had nothing to do with it, it's clearly his fault.

Funny van-halen.com hasn't even made mention of the RHRN vinyl release or the rest of Van Hagar getting the rerelease treatment.

Although I wouldn't put so much stock in the VH website. However, whenever Alex wants to deliver a message on Ed's birthday or the anniversary of his death he's done so via the website.

That can be a sign that the Van Hagar remasters are purely driven by WB/Rhino.

[FORD]

If they want to release a live album (on vinyl or otherwise) fuck that Van Hagar shit, they should be releasing a "40th Anniversary US Festival" live album right around Memorial Day.

And release the video too, of course.

[Von Halen]

The market for Van Hagar just isn't as strong as for CVH.

I wonder if they'll even sell all 7500.

Can you imagine a Dave era live album from 1984 or before being limited to 7500? It would break the internet!

[Vinnie Velvet]

I wonder if they'll even sell all 7500.

Can you imagine a Dave era live album from 1984 or before being limited to 7500? It would break the internet!

That's right. It would never be a limited sell. The demand is too high.

[FORD]

I seem to remember the vinyl version of ADKOT selling out within a week or so, and that album barely had any promotion.

[Terry]

I seem to remember the vinyl version of ADKOT selling out within a week or so, and that album barely had any promotion.

Really?

I seem to recall quite a bit of promotion for the album and the tour, including (of all things in 2012) commercials on tv in my area.

[Terry]

Holy mother of hell are those lyrics bad.

Van Hagar was a complete castration of the brilliance of CVH. Even Ed's guitar wizardry couldn't save it.

True enough, although Ed's shitty synth pop didn't help matters any: guitar wizard but mediocre keyboardist.

Maybe Sam Halen could have used more tuba...

[Vinnie Velvet]

True enough, although Ed's shitty synth pop didn't help matters any: guitar wizard but mediocre keyboardist.

Maybe Sam Halen could have used more tuba...

I was amazed how they managed to sell that many copies though with clearly an inferior to CVH and different product. Sound wise, image wise, everything was different.

I guess 5150 appealed to a whole new demographic than the original CVH fanbase. But also it sold lots on name only too. Van Halen brand was too hot at the time, especially coming off of 1984.

[Terry]

I was amazed how they managed to sell that many copies though with clearly an inferior to CVH and different product. Sound wise, image wise, everything was different.

I guess 5150 appealed to a whole new demographic than the original CVH fanbase. But also it sold lots on name only too. Van Halen brand was too hot at the time, especially coming off of 1984.

5150 was successful in commercial terms.

As you say, though, a certain amount of that success was inherited. To be fair, Hagar had just come off his biggest solo success with VOA, which had went platinum. Doubtless in 1986, it'd be reasonable to assume a percentage of the million or so people who bought the VOA album would have an interest in checking out Van Halen with Hagar in it. Van Halen were coming off 1984, which was a huge success. When Roth left, it'd be excessive to believe that everybody who had been a fan of the band prior to Hagar was totally 100% adverse to checking out the band without Dave.

I think you're right also that the 5150 sound did have an appeal to people who perhaps weren't as huge on Van Halen when Roth was in it...people who really only became aware of the band when Jump as a single had the massive success that it did,

It was telling that after 5150 each subsequent Van Hagar album sold less than the previous one. That tells me that the longer Hagar stuck around, the less people were interested in the band as the years went by. Contrast that with BOV1, where all it took was a couple new tunes with Roth and the implied promise of a Roth reunion for a greatest hits album to outsell the last studio album Van Halen did with Hagar.

[Seshmeister]

Really?

I seem to recall quite a bit of promotion for the album and the tour, including (of all things in 2012) commercials on tv in my area.

There was some advertising but my recollection is zero promotion from the band, no TV interviews, no radio interviews, Only a single video with a very small budget and most people think a poor choice.

Clearly there was a deliberate decision there to avoid any risk of fighting and just get through the tour(s) without it falling to bits.

In hindsight I think it was was mistake and that they could have stuck Roth out there on the talk shows and Stern and everything without him making a misstep but ADKOT was still a top 10 album in the rock charts at least and the tour is where 95% of the money is these days and they did well on that.