What If The Bible Is Really True? Parts 1 & 2

[Nitro Express]

This facility in Washington state is interesting. I visited it last year. They are actually trying to measure ripples in space time. There are two more. One in Puerto Rico and one in Australia.

http://www.ligo-wa.caltech.edu/

[Blaze]

While were talking about unprovable theories, questionable science, descriptive qualities of God and while Nick is asking me to STFU I guess because of my theories of how to reduce war.

I think the many holy books are a historical event of eons. I think time lines where smashed together into the "word of God" that the word of God is a collective memory of time and space. Theory keep in mind.

I think we have been totally destroyed as a advanced civilization many times before, but at least once. Scattered to the four corners, or rather there were pockets of survivors in locations, maybe just one location but I doubt that because there is too much migration patterns of ancient man. I think we do not have record of this with the exception of the collective memory because like today most things would be gone in a few eons. That if there were only pockets of humans left in a few locations we would loose much of our brain trust in a few generations by shear survival.

Where and how we as self replicating being came to exist... that is still theory. Other than the fact , for the most part, have ears, eyes, nose, mouth, and what nots, we all are very different. There has been no real information on how we became so different. Sure it is said that environment play a rule into it. However, if that was the baseline fact why did people that live close to water not grow useful items like webbed feet.

As for God, as humans, I do not think we are able to grasp conceptually God. God is beyond human reasoning, at this point. Moreover, if we ever can, we will no longer be human.

[Seshmeister]

This facility in Washington state is interesting. I visited it last year. They are actually trying to measure ripples in space time. There are two more. One in Puerto Rico and one in Australia.

http://www.ligo-wa.caltech.edu/

Sorry to sound cynical but it's only a matter of time before someone starts a thread on the space shuttle and you reply 'well when I flew Columbia...'

[Seshmeister]

While were talking about unprovable theories, questionable science, descriptive qualities of God and while Nick is asking me to STFU I guess because of my theories of how to reduce war.

I think the many holy books are a historical event of eons. I think time lines where smashed together into the "word of God" that the word of God is a collective memory of time and space. Theory keep in mind.

I think we have been totally destroyed as a advanced civilization many times before, but at least once. Scattered to the four corners, or rather there were pockets of survivors in locations, maybe just one location but I doubt that because there is too much migration patterns of ancient man. I think we do not have record of this with the exception of the collective memory because like today most things would be gone in a few eons. That if there were only pockets of humans left in a few locations we would loose much of our brain trust in a few generations by shear survival.

Where and how we as self replicating being came to exist... that is still theory. Other than the fact , for the most part, have ears, eyes, nose, mouth, and what nots, we all are very different. There has been no real information on how we became so different. Sure it is said that environment play a rule into it. However, if that was the baseline fact why did people that live close to water not grow useful items like webbed feet.

As for God, as humans, I do not think we are able to grasp conceptually God. God is beyond human reasoning, at this point. Moreover, if we ever can, we will no longer be human.

That's interesting but have you ever looked into the flying spaghetti monster?

[Blaze]

That's interesting but have you ever looked into the flying spaghetti monster?

Actually, I have. I did not memorize much of it however. It's it just a rework of the Bible?

[Dr. Love]

You clearly are not familiar with Captain Mosey and the 8 I'd rather you didn'ts.

[hambon4lif]

That's interesting but have you ever looked into the flying spaghetti monster?

I almost forgot the fact that Sesh is a Pastafarian.

[Blaze]

You clearly are not familiar with Captain Mosey and the 8 I'd rather you didn'ts.

to test Pastafarians' faith—parodying certain biblical literalists.

^ a b c Van Horn, Gavin; Lucas Johnston (2007). "Evolutionary Controversy and a Side of Pasta: The Flying Spaghetti Monster and the Subversive Function of Religious Parody". GOLEM: Journal of Religion and Monsters 2 (1). Retrieved 2009-12-19.:tongue0011:

[sadaist]

I almost forgot the fact that Sesh is a Pastafarian.

Does that mean he worships this guy?

[FORD]

Chef Boyardee would probably be the Antispaghettimonster. If you have eaten his crappy products, you know why.....

[Nitro Express]

Chef Boyardee would probably be the Antispaghettimonster. If you have eaten his crappy products, you know why.....

Some cable food show did a documentary on Chef Boyardee. He was an actual person but they changed the spelling on his real Italian name to be more easy to pronounce. During WWI the US military was looking for high carbohydrate rations. Chef Boyardee convinced them he could can spaghetti and the soldiers would enjoy it. He got the contract and spaghetti in a can was born. Before that the only people who ate spaghetti in the US were the Italian immigrants. The soldiers liked the spaghetti rations so much they continued to eat it when they got home and a new staple food was born. The Boyardee came out with his boxed spaghetti.

That being said all the Italians I know would beat you silly for serving the shit at dinner.

[Nitro Express]

My question is how many wives does the spaghetti monster have? Also, if we are born in god's image how come we don't look like spaghetti? Also, do I have to wear spaghetti underwear to get into the spaghetti kingdom?

[sadaist]

Chef Boyardee would probably be the Antispaghettimonster. If you have eaten his crappy products, you know why.....

Well. I liked it as a kid. I tolerate it as an adult. It makes for a really cheap & fast meal so I always have a can or 2 of raviolis in the house. I've eaten much worse. Get them on sale and it's not a bad thing for $1.

[Hardrock69]

I'll be damned....never knew Chef Boyardee was a real dude. And if it were not for WWII, we would not have Spaghetti-Os, lol.

Eetsa BLASPHEEM-A!

[Hardrock69]

Been a good while since I have had REAL lasagne. I LOVE Italian food. When I was visiting London some years ago, my girlfriend and I went to some kickass Italian restaurante in Kensington (I think) and had it the REAL way, with real egg noodles and everything.

Was not that expensive.....amazingly, as we were served by a small army of waiters in tuxedos......and I looking like the usual rocker in my motorcycle jacket.

Mmmmmm....Italian....

[SunisinuS]

I'll be damned....never knew Chef Boyardee was a real dude. And if it were not for WWII, we would not have Spaghetti-Os, lol.

Eetsa BLASPHEEM-A!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorton%27s_of_Gloucester

[Nitro Express]

I don't think I had one bad meal in Italy.

[Hardrock69]

Does not surprise me. Food is the national pastime there. That, and drinking wine and fucking, lol. But then, those have been the national pastime for over 2,000 years, lol.

Someday I hope to be able to travel to Rome. Will have to win the lottery to be able to do so though.

[Nitro Express]

Rome is one of my favorite cities. The people are nice and it actually has kind of a small town vibe to it. It's fun to walk around at night or ride a Vespa around. I think it's more romantic than Paris. You could make some great deals before the lira was replaced by the euro. We pretty much bought out the Gucci store in those days and Italian leather was reasonable. Not now.

[Hardrock69]

Well, I would surely dig travelling there with a hot chick!

[Hardrock69]

Bet that fucking city is one HAUNTED motherfucking place, as much horror and violence has gone down there over the centuries.

[Nitro Express]

Bet that fucking city is one HAUNTED motherfucking place, as much horror and violence has gone down there over the centuries.

I never found it creepy or haunted. I've been to Rome several times once when I was pretty young. There were all sorts of stray cats that would roam around the old Roman ruins of the forum. So it was playing with stray cats and not creepy ghosts of Nero or Caligula or their many victims running around.

I think all this ghost business is just people's minds playing games on them. When I was in college I worked nights at a funeral home and had to close up at night. I never saw anything. One time the eye lid stays on a corpse slipped and his eye popped open. That scared me. That happened once at a viewing and people thought the person was alive. they put these plastic velcro things under the eye lids to keep them closed. Dead people pretty much don't cause too much trouble but if you let your mind get psyched out on all that stuff in movies and on television then you will feel and see all sorts of shit. It's mind games.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

I never found it creepy or haunted. I've been to Rome several times once when I was pretty young.

[hideyoursheep]

A copy/paste thread....started by Brian....that exposes his own hypocrisy....




You'd better HOPE the Bible isn't true, brian....or you'll be bunking with UBL.

[binnie]

Looking at what the industry charges for medicine and care it's all about money more than helping anyone. So you are back to making an informed decision yourself on who to trust basically. It's amazing all the different opinions you get from various doctors. At the end of the day you have to choose someone's advice.

Yes, you may very well get different opinions from different doctors. But the fact stands that they are DOCTORS. If I had 2 opinions from 2 different doctors, and opinion from the little old lady down the road and an opinion from my car mechanic, all of those opinions would not be equally valid.

[binnie]

Bet that fucking city is one HAUNTED motherfucking place, as much horror and violence has gone down there over the centuries.

Rome is actually one of the most beautiful places in the world. Pretty awe-inspiring, actually.

[Satan]

You'd better HOPE the Bible isn't true, brian....or you'll be bunking with UBL.

Nah, probably not. Osama's a permanent resident of the BCE wing of Hell, a very special realm of eternal torment. Brian may be one of the BCE's biggest fans, but I doubt he's on their payroll.

[Nitro Express]

Rome is actually one of the most beautiful places in the world. Pretty awe-inspiring, actually.

What I like about it is the new is mixed with the old in this wonderful hodgepodge. It really is the eternal city and is very unique. Hot summer days but the nights are wonderful there. It's a great summer night city.

[fifth element]

definitely a place that i would like to visit one day.

[Hardrock69]

Hey Nitro, perhaps you have never experienced any paranormal activity, but I have. And there are numerous reports by people who work guarding the ruins of the Colosseum at night where they say they have heard a lot of strange shit when nobody else was around.

[Blaze]

She wants to travel to Rome to do it on the dome.
She is going to call St. Peter, St. Peter
Then he is going to eat 'er
The pope will go ballistic.
When the Eagle lands.
Oh Michael Michael, the poor pope says
Lord have mercy ole Michael is dead.


Then then she is going to the dome.
Lord Lord the papal guards
There with the rapier penetrated.
Into the lung to take the breath away.

Blood on the dome
Lord come home.

Oberst Ordered.
Pull your baton
bludgeon him!
Bludgeon him!

As they drown in the holy see.
It was always meant to be.
There is no nature here.
Mother Mary, Mother Mary.
Oh where was
Oh where was

Come with me, my love.
Let us swim in the deep Holy See
It is our destiny.

To this man she doth honor
To this man she doth honor

[Nitro Express]

Hey Nitro, perhaps you have never experienced any paranormal activity, but I have. And there are numerous reports by people who work guarding the ruins of the Colosseum at night where they say they have heard a lot of strange shit when nobody else was around.

I had a near death experience where I found myself out of my body feeling like a million bucks. I sort of did the Nikki Sixx thing but it was accute bronchitus instead of heroin. So I would be the first to admit we are more than just a physical body. That being said, I just haven't experienced a lot of this paranormal stuff people are always talking about. I think in many cases people kind of see what they want to see. Or the creepiness of a place kind of sikes people out. I know people who have had some scary experiences with Ouiji boards and stuff like that. I never messed around with that stuff.

[Nitro Express]

You can climb up to the top of St. Peter's dome. I did it. I thought the Vatican would be pretty regulated and closed but it was amazingly pretty open. You could wonder around in quite a few places there. One chick passed out and started going into a seizure and two Swiss guards in full garb came to the rescue. It was pretty damn funny to see these dudes in helmets, stripes, armor giving medical assistance. Then the guys in the blazers showed up.

[Hardrock69]

Further evidence the New Testament is a fraud:

http://freethoughtnation.com/contrib...ers-bogus.html

Bible scholar: New Testament books and letters bogus

Monday, 16 May 2011 15:48

Some 80 years after lawyer Joseph Wheless wrote his classic Forgery in Christianity, it seems some - or at least one - mainstream scholars are catching up to the fact that the New Testament is not what it appears to be and what hundreds of millions have been taught around the world for the past 2,000 or so years.

Published in 1930, Wheless's work - which was a major influence on my own after I found it on a bookshelf some 20 years ago - essentially consists of quoting the authoritative Catholic Encyclopedia's admissions against interest about the New Testament books and epistles, as well as the writings of the early Church fathers. Although the Catholic Encyclopedia ("CE") does not go so far as to admit that Christianity itself is forged, its editors were fairly honest in their scholarly analyses of some of the individual texts. Obviously, in order to maintain the party line and their vocations, CE editors couldn't go so far as New Testament scholar Dr. Bart Ehrman has done in his new book Forged: Writing in the Name of God, but even he doesn't go as far as Wheless did, which was to call the entire gospel tale into question, including the very historicity of its main character, Jesus Christ.

Yet, Ehrman's hat in the ring of scholarship basically proving textual forgery is a step in the right direction. If one truly studies the literature from the Mythicist School beginning at the latest in the 18th century, one will find as much merit in it as in this "new" analysis of many New Testament texts as forged. It's just a very small step, really, when one realizes how much of the NT is bogus and how little credible, scientific evidence exists that the gospel tale actually took place when and where claimed or that its main characters were even "historical."

The Christ Conspiracy

[The Christ Conspiracy] In 1999, my mythicist book The Christ Conspiracy was published, detailing the same research, which, again, actually dates back several centuries, the reason the CE wrote about it. In Christ Con - which has been read by tens of thousands over the past decade+ since its release - I included a chapter entitled, "The Holy Forgery Mill," in which I stated (24):

From the very beginning of our quest to unravel the Christ conspiracy, we encounter suspicious territory, as we look back in time and discover that the real foundation of Christianity appears nothing like the image provided by the clergy and mainstream authorities.

I went on to describe the atmosphere of fraud that pervaded the founding of the Christian religion, including wholesale forgery of numerous texts, such as not only the "apocryphal" or noncanonical writings but also many of the canonical New Testament books themselves. I quoted Wheless (94) thus:

The gospels are all priestly forgeries over a century after their pretended dates.

I then proceeded to provide numerous proofs of this statement, as well as evidence showing that other canonical texts such as several "Pauline" epistles were known not to have emanated from the apostle's own hand, such as the three "Pastorals" or epistles to Timothy and Titus, as well as Hebrews. The supposed authorship of the books of Acts and Revelation is likewise highly questionable, despite claims to the contrary, as these texts also do not appear in the literary record until the last half of the second century, neither quoted nor noticed at all by any Christian or other writer before that time. I further included the opinion that the epistles of James, John and Peter were likewise bogus, appearing in the literary/historical record decades after their purported dates and so patently forged in the name of the apostles in order to give authority to doctrines and positions that did not even exist until the second century.

To reiterate, none of this scholarship is new; it's just the typical catch-up game being played by somewhat mainstream academics following on the heels of "radicals" and laymen, although many of the pioneers in this field of Bible criticism have been professional theologians and New Testament scholars, as my copious quoting reveals.

Since the publication of The Christ Conspiracy, I have written several more books with expanded scholarship demonstrating this contention concerning the forged books of the New Testament, including Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled, Who Was Jesus? Fingerprints of The Christ and Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection. Needless to say, none of the points made by Ehrman is new to me and, while his details may differ, all of them can be found in my books, published years ago.

"There were a lot of people in the ancient world who thought that lying could serve a greater good," says Ehrman

Ehrman's contention of rampant lying in antiquity is precisely correct, especially as concerns Christianity, a fact I demonstrate repeatedly in The Christ Conspiracy. Indeed, such fraud is the Christ conspiracy, extending not just to the Christian texts but also to the gospel tale itself, which is clearly based largely upon the myths and sayings of pre-Christian cultures such as the Greek, Roman, Egyptian, European and Indian. This latter contention I also demonstrate in my books and articles revealing numerous mythical motifs that were worked into the gospel story, along with Old Testament "messianic prophecies" that were used as blueprints in the creation of the Christ myth.

Needless to say, with all the heat I've taken over the past 15+ years online since I began publishing my mythicist articles, including and especially "The Origins of Christianity," which began this entire endeavor, it's good to see mainstream scholarship finally catching up and exposing the truth. Now, if professional scholars can just take that last little step onto the solid ground of recognizing the gospel story as fiction rather than history, we will all be better off.

Half of New Testament forged, Bible scholar says

A frail man sits in chains inside a dank, cold prison cell. He has escaped death before but now realizes that his execution is drawing near.

“I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come,” the man – the Apostle Paul - says in the Bible's 2 Timothy. “I have fought the good fight. I have finished the race. I have kept the faith.”

The passage is one of the most dramatic scenes in the New Testament. Paul, the most prolific New Testament author, is saying goodbye from a Roman prison cell before being beheaded. His goodbye veers from loneliness to defiance and, finally, to joy.

There's one just one problem - Paul didn't write those words. In fact, virtually half the New Testament was written by impostors taking on the names of apostles like Paul. At least according to Bart D. Ehrman, a renowned biblical scholar, who makes the charges in his new book “Forged.”

“There were a lot of people in the ancient world who thought that lying could serve a greater good,” says Ehrman, an expert on ancient biblical manuscripts.In “Forged,” Ehrman claims that:

* At least 11 of the 27 New Testament books are forgeries.

* The New Testament books attributed to Jesus' disciples could not have been written by them because they were illiterate.

* Many of the New Testament's forgeries were manufactured by early Christian leaders trying to settle theological feuds.

Were Jesus' disciples 'illiterate peasants?'

Ehrman's book, like many of his previous ones, is already generating backlash. Ben Witherington, a New Testament scholar, has written a lengthy online critique of “Forged.”...

Will the real Paul stand up? Ehrman reserves most of his scrutiny for the writings of Paul, which make up the bulk of the New Testament. He says that only about half of the New Testament letters attributed to Paul – 7 of 13 - were actually written by him.

Paul's remaining books are forgeries, Ehrman says. His proof: inconsistencies in the language, choice of words and blatant contradiction in doctrine.

For example, Ehrman says the book of Ephesians doesn't conform to Paul's distinctive Greek writing style. He says Paul wrote in short, pointed sentences while Ephesians is full of long Greek sentences (the opening sentence of thanksgiving in Ephesians unfurls a sentence that winds through 12 verses, he says).

“There's nothing wrong with extremely long sentences in Greek; it just isn't the way Paul wrote. It's like Mark Twain and William Faulkner; they both wrote correctly, but you would never mistake the one for the other,” Ehrman writes.

The scholar also points to a famous passage in 1 Corinthians in which Paul is recorded as saying that women should be “silent” in churches and that “if they wish to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home.”

Only three chapters earlier, in the same book, Paul is urging women who pray and prophesy in church to cover their heads with veils, Ehrman says: “If they were allowed to speak in chapter 11, how could they be told not to speak in chapter 14?”

Why people forged

Forgers often did their work because they were trying to settle early church disputes, Ehrman says. The early church was embroiled in conflict - people argued over the treatment of women, leadership and relations between masters and slaves, he says.

“There was competition among different groups of Christians about what to believe and each of these groups wanted to have authority to back up their views,” he says. “If you were a nobody, you wouldn't sign your own name to your treatise. You would sign Peter or John.”

So people claiming to be Peter and John - and all sorts of people who claimed to know Jesus - went into publishing overdrive. Ehrman estimates that there were about 100 forgeries created in the name of Jesus' inner-circle during the first four centuries of the church.

Witherington concedes that fabrications and forgeries floated around the earliest Christian communities....

Ehrman, of course, has another point of view. “Forged” will help people accept something that it took him a long time to accept, says the author, a former fundamentalist who is now an agnostic.

The New Testament wasn't written by the finger of God, he says – it has human fingerprints all over its pages.

“I'm not saying people should throw it out or it's not theologically fruitful,” Ehrman says. “I'm saying that by realizing it contains so many forgeries, it shows that it's a very human book, down to the fact that some authors lied about who they were.”

[chefcraig]

Stephen Hawking: Heaven is "a fairy story"

CBS NEWS

Physicist Stephen Hawking believes there is no afterlife, and that the concept of heaven is a "fairy story" for people who fear death.

In an interview published in the Guardian, Hawking - author of the bestselling "A Brief History of Time" - said that when the brain ceases to function, that's it.

"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail," he told the Guardian's Ian Sample. "There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark."

Hawking, 69, who has survived for nearly five decades with a motor neurone disease that doctors believed would kill him while he was still in his early 20s, said he does not fear death. He also said that having lived with the prospect of death from his incurable illness has ultimately led him to enjoy life more.

"I'm not afraid of death, but I'm in no hurry to die. I have so much I want to do first," he said.

Hawking was the target of criticism from religious circles when his most recent book, "The Grand Design," argued that there was no need for a creator to explain the universe's existence.

In the Guardian interview - conducted in advance of his lecture at this week's Google Zeitgeist meeting in London, where he will address the question: "Why are we here?" - Hawking rejects an afterlife and emphasizes the need for people to realize their full potential on Earth.

When asked what is the value of knowing why are we here, Hawking replied, "The universe is governed by science. But science tells us that we can't solve the equations, directly in the abstract. We need to use the effective theory of Darwinian natural selection of those societies most likely to survive. We assign them higher value."

When asked what he found most beautiful in science, Hawking said, "Science is beautiful when it makes simple explanations of phenomena or connections between different observations. Examples include the double helix in biology, and the fundamental equations of physics."

Hawking said that our existence is down to pure chance, and that one's goal should be to "seek the greatest value of our action."

[Seshmeister]

Say for example there were some sort of spirit thing going on and that's what black matter was made up of.

Even if that were true how would it work if you died after having dementia for a few years? Over 50% of people over 85 have dementia of some sort.

That would mean unless some sort of magic ghostie or spaghetti monster stepped in taking you back in time then you would continue into eternity or the spirit world or whatever as an idiot hole. By that reasoning you would want to die young. In fact if you compare eternity to the short human life the only sensible thing to do would be to kill yourself right away in case your mind got damaged before death.

[chefcraig]

Say for example there were some sort of spirit thing going on and that's what black matter was made up of...
That would mean unless some sort of magic ghostie or spaghetti monster stepped in taking you back in time then you would continue into eternity or the spirit world or whatever as an idiot hole. By that reasoning you would want to die young. In fact if you compare eternity to the short human life the only sensible thing to do would be to kill yourself right away in case your mind got damaged before death.

Yet it is easier to believe that once dead, you get a fresh start in order to set right the generally absurd, fucked-up drama your life has become. Children do not have need of such devices, so only "adults" could want or need to come up with such a redemptive concept. In this way, if you are a drunkard, a pederast, an adulterer, an axe murderer or some other variant of less than wonderful yet totally irresponsible example of human behavior, you get an imagined free pass to set things right, a place where everyone loves you and all is jolly. This also helps those with a crippling sense of self doubt, so that their imagined flaws, including an unsightly zit in the middle of their foreheads, will magically disappear and everything will be just as it is supposed to be. Whatever the fuck that means.

[Seshmeister]

My kids are going through a strange phase where they don't believe in god but they do believe in the tooth fairy.

Theologically it's quite close to Scientology.

[chefcraig]

Yet the entire idea of religion comes from the idea of "redemption", a concept that, given even casual scrutiny, holds water like a fucking cheese-grater. Somewhere along the line, people get the notion that their life has become unjustly fractured, even though the laws of nature, science and good old fashioned common sense prove this not to be the case. Rather than accepting responsibility for their own actions, they decide that they have been wronged somehow, and set out to "put things right". As a result, we get Hollywood screenplays like Rocky, where a man feels the need to prove himself to people as a worthwhile human being, even though he has made some drastically bone-headed vocational choices in his lifetime.

It's just stupid. Rather than addressing the various flaws and correcting them in one's life, people expect a clean slate in the next one in order to start again fresh. It is highly unlikely that that one gets a reset button upon death, and to imagine one to exist is to reduce life itself to an online game of Space Invaders, where if you are losing, you simply shut the damned thing off and start over again. Such an expectation not only cheapens whatever the so-called afterlife might be (if there is one), it points out the inherently flawed thinking taking place in the current one.

[Seshmeister]

I'm seriously beginning to think that the world is run by clinical psychopaths but that is a whole other thread.