Stand Your Ground Doesn't Equal Neighborhood (Death Squad) Watch

[MUSICMANN]

dude, regardless of whether or not the kid was a thug, the fact (and this is a FACT) is that he was doing nothing wrong until zimmerman got involved. now, maybe the kid then began assaulting zimmerman. maybe zimmerman did act in self defense. but without zimmerman ignoring the dispatcher's statement not to get involved, trayvon would've lived through that night.

and by the way...if stand your ground law works for zimmerman, then it should work for trayvon, too. man in a car following you at night could make anybody reasonably afraid, thereby authorizing force, according to the florida law...

You're right, the law should work both ways. Here's the most important fact about that though. I've already posted this once and it is a simple truth of this whole situation. If Zimmerman was the aggressor first and then the teen became the aggressor for standing his ground, the moment that thought became a reality in his mind, he should have took a step back and just went back to that old saying. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight, and if all you have is your fists and they could have a knife or a gun, it's best to turn and run. Another truth is that this hold your ground law, does nothing but make even more people carry weapons, so this will happen again.

[sadaist]

dude, regardless of whether or not the kid was a thug, the fact (and this is a FACT) is that he was doing nothing wrong until zimmerman got involved.

Where did you get this fact? I have HEARD that he was just walking home with Skittles & Iced Tea. I do not KNOW this as FACT.

Please tell us how you KNOW he was doing nothing wrong.



was he looking in car windows for something to steal on the way home? Was he on someone elses property poking around on the way home? Was he looking in house windows on his way home?

We know absolutely nothing really about that night.

[sadaist]

And a lot of times someone is in all honesty doing nothing wrong but just appear suspicious due to circumstances...time of night, clothing, location, etc...

An officer or neighborhood watch type might ask...."hey man, what's up? Everything cool? Whatcha doing out here?"

And you answer. Yeah man, all good. Just walking back home to catch the 2nd half of the game. Thanks for checking though.

Done


unfortunately not everyone asked a simple question responds that way. If he were even asked anything. Fuck you man. Who the fuck are you? It's none of your damn business. Etc. Instigators. And I personally have been asked the above question 100's of times when out at night. No big thing. But then, I'm not really looking to talk back to people to prove I'm tough. I avoid confrontation whenever possible. Not everyone does though.

Again...just talking random things here. Have ZERO idea what happened this night.

[ELVIS]

Too bad more people can't be as honest as you...

Nice post, Sadist...

[Nickdfresh]

Where did you get this fact? I have HEARD that he was just walking home with Skittles & Iced Tea. I do not KNOW this as FACT.

Please tell us how you KNOW he was doing nothing wrong.



was he looking in car windows for something to steal on the way home? Was he on someone elses property poking around on the way home? Was he looking in house windows on his way home?

We know absolutely nothing really about that night.

Um, firstly it is innocent until proven guilty:

Zimmerman was not a police officer and had no business acting like one.

-He and the police have already shown to be liars.

-If you listen to the tape, Zimmerman states that he looks to be up to no-good, and is looking around (something anyone might do on a night walk.

It just smacks of demonizing the kid and reaching for a reason why it was okay to kill him. No one contends the kid was breaking into a house or raping some girl, about the only reasons I can think of where a civilian has the right to intervene with potentially deadly force. And yes, if you listen to the tape, Zimmerman sounds like a complete yahoo-jerkoff with his statement about how these guys "always get away." Fuck him! Who deputized him and told him it was alright to worry about things that don't effect him?..

[Jagermeister]

This thread cracks me up.

[jhale667]

Um, firstly it is innocent until proven guilty:

Zimmerman was not a police officer and had no business acting like one.

-He and the police have already shown to be liars.

-If you listen to the tape, Zimmerman states that he looks to be up to no-good, and is looking around (something anyone might do on a night walk.

It just smacks of demonizing the kid and reaching for a reason why it was okay to kill him. No one contends the kid was breaking into a house or raping some girl, about the only reasons I can think of where a civilian has the right to intervene with potentially deadly force. And yes, if you listen to the tape, Zimmerman sounds like a complete yahoo-jerkoff with his statement about how these guys "always get away." Fuck him! Who deputized him and told him it was alright to worry about things that don't effect him?..

Exactly. There's been NO indication given, other than Zimmerman's clearly biased statement, that Martin was doing anything wrong - and even Zimmerman's statement doesn't support the assertion. More like it supports the assertion that Zimmerman was looking for a reason to start sh*t.

[DLR Bridge]

I saw a picture of a guy holding a sign that read, "It's called neighborhood watch. You don't need a gun to watch." Simple and to the point. Zimmerman is chickenshit wrapped in skin.

[ELVIS]

Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman: What Happened?

Link!

An arguer on Facebook caused me listen to and to read the transcripts of all the calls to police the night Trayvon Martin died. Since I’ve gone to that effort, figured I might as well post my two cents here. Note: that’s exactly what this post is worth when compared to the real world impact on these two people: two cents.

First off, this is entirely based on the calls to police, not at all based on police reports based on Zimmerman’s statements. Anything he told police is suspect, since he had just shot and killed a person; if he had committed a crime he would have extraordinarily high incentives to lie to the police to cover it up.

What was Zimmerman’s motivation to call police? In the call, he never said that Martin was checking out or even looking at houses. He said “This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about.” That was the ENTIRE reason Zimmerman provided for calling the police.

It was raining hard. Zimmerman saw Martin next to the clubhouse, which provided cover from the rain. If you were caught in a rainstorm, would you not also seek shelter? How many options for that do you think there were in that townhouse community? Was Martin’s behavior suspicious? He was reportedly “walking around looking about” next to the clubhouse. Would it have been less suspicious if he had stood still?

Put yourself there. You’re walking home. It starts to pour down rain. You duck under the cover of the clubhouse, because it’s the most obvious cover you can see. You’re 17 and bored, so you walk around checking the place out, looking in the windows because it’s unfamiliar to you. Then you see an SUV slowly drive up nearby. You can’t tell what the person inside is doing. Maybe you move closer to see if you can tell if he’s watching you. You decide that he is. Maybe he’s a child molester. Maybe it’s somebody who intends you some other harm. You don’t know. Maybe you’re scared by this. What do you do?

When Zimmerman says that Martin runs, you can hear on the tape that Zimmerman gets out of his vehicle and starts running after him. The police operator tells him not to do that. Zimmerman says okay. But he keeps pursuing him, despite the rain. Near the end of the call, 90 seconds later, Zimmerman asks the operator that rather than meet at his parked SUV, have the responding police call him, and he’ll let them know where he is. Clearly, not only had he disregarded the instruction NOT to follow to that point, but he had no intention of returning to his vehicle. My guess is that he continued to pursue Martin until he got jumped.

If you were Zimmerman, and you were told by the police not to follow but did so anyway, and the physical evidence proves this (the shooting occurred away from your vehicle, though I haven’t seen anything showing exactly where), how would you explain it? OF COURSE you might say that you were on your way back to your vehicle. But the evidence indicates that Zimmerman continued his pursuit for at least 90 seconds after being told to stop, and at that point had no intention of returning to his vehicle.

So we’ve got a 17-year-old kid, who thinks somebody might be watching him, running away from the situation and probably seeing Zimmerman following him. At this point, Martin’s suspicions that the guy in the SUV meant him harm seem to be confirmed. Did Zimmerman ask Martin what he was doing there? No. Did he call out to tell Martin to stop running? Not in the first 99 seconds of the pursuit. I think Zimmerman made no effort to communicate with Martin, and the outcome would likely have been different if he had.

Could Martin have called out for help? Yes. Could he have have banged on doors? Yes. But in an unfamiliar place, ambushing the person you think is hunting you is an understandable reaction. My guess is that Martin surprised Zimmerman and quickly overpowered him. The cries for help described and heard on 911 calls I think were Zimmerman’s, as Martin had the advantage. Right up until the moment he was shot in the chest.

I know nothing of the Florida laws that apply to this case. It may be that technically no crime was committed, despite the obvious and enormous injustice.

If the criminal law provides no relief, Martin’s parents likely have a civil case, as Zimmerman seems responsible for Trayvon’s death. From the moment of Zimmerman’s call to police, the proximate cause of the deadly encounter was Zimmerman ignoring the police instruction not to follow. If he had not pursued Martin, there would have been no shooting. Period.

Like I said, that’s two cents worth, a guess, nothing more. We should all reserve judgment pending more information.

[jhale667]

Bottom line: Zimmerman had absolutely NO reason to follow Martin, and anything that happened as a result of him not waiting for the authorities to arrive is either directly or indirectly HIS fault.

[ELVIS]

Bottom line: Zimmerman had absolutely NO reason to follow Martin, and anything that happened as a result of him not waiting for the authorities to arrive is either directly or indirectly HIS fault.

I agree with that...

What I don't agree with is the media, the president and black celebretards making this case about racism and white on black crime...

[chefcraig]

Bunnies are dignified beings??

I raised rabbits as a kid, and I know damn well that ain't the truth.

And that pretty much sums up my overall view of this bizarrely botched and irresponsibly reported fiasco: It has now boiled down to a discussion on the dignity of bunny rabbits.

[ELVIS]

Can't we all just get along ??

[jhale667]

I agree with that...

What I don't agree with is the media, the president and black celebretards making this case about racism and white on black crime...

Obama said nothing wrong, I'm sick of people mischaracterizing his statement. And it was the right-wing media that wrongly tried to demonize this kid (writing "WTF" on a locker became "graffiti", etc - which lead to the idiotic "thug in training" school of non-thought). Zimmerman would totally get away with this were it not for the attention the left brought to this case.

[ELVIS]

Obama should have said nothing at all...