Marco Rubio Florida School Shooting

[Seshmeister]

It occurred to me probably some proper academic research has been done on this rather than me just shooting my mouth off so I looked it up and I was half right.

It seems to have been 50% due to locking everyone up in prison and 50% Roe v Wade 20 years earlier.

http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/LevittUnderstandingWhyCrime2004.pdf

[jacksmar]

This is such an old man point of view.


What caused the big drop in the 1990s? Video games or Bill Clinton? Or maybe abortions of unwanted future scumbags 18 years earlier kicking in but that's not something you'll ever hear a US politician admit.

sesh, you are really gullible. It's embarrassing.

That crime rate chart doesn't even begin to tell anyone the truth. HillBilly caused the crime rate to drop. REMEMBER: WJC was the first black president.

So WJC talked to his Attorney General JR and the two of them decided to move Part I crimes to Part II crimes based on race and location. Had something to do with Vernon Jordan.

Eventually police departments across the US quit reporting. The data local PD's were turning in was changed to fit the narrative.

It goes on today. Under Kenyan Houseboy BHOle, you had to look really hard to the nationality of the perp.

Keep the socialist flame burning. It's expected of TARDOs

[ZahZoo]

This is such an old man point of view.

Violent crime is lower now than it was when you were at school. The time you describe with the 'unused' knives and guns was one of the most violent in US history.

Video games probably reduce crime because you don't get so many bunches of disaffected youths hanging about bored outside looking for trouble, they are indoors pretending to kill each other online.

See that big fucking spike when you were a teenager (no I don't mean the one during the Depression. )


What caused the big drop in the 1990s? Video games or Bill Clinton? Or maybe abortions of unwanted future scumbags 18 years earlier kicking in but that's not something you'll ever hear a US politician admit.

Sesh... face it. You are no longer a young man yourself. May be time to adjust your delivery perspective...

I think you misunderstood my point... I clearly stated my time as a kid was much more violent and crime ridden than today. Statistical crime rates per capita today are significantly below what they were when both you and I were kids. No question about it.

Those committing crimes and who they are targeting has changed measurably though comparing then and now... we were discussing the matter of mass shootings with high capacity weapons in schools by students. A crime element that didn't exist back then...

I don't believe gaming nor Slick Willie Clinton had a damn thing to do with the drop in overall crime statistics. That shift is/was more directly tied to civil rights, race relations, hate crimes and a huge shift in the social conscientiousness in how treat each other broadly across the US. Today's violent crime is most concentrated in large cities, by younger age groups and directly tied to economic factors, the drug trade and warring within races.

Specific to these school shootings... I was making a correlation to a combination of mental illness, social isolation and potentially gaming may have had a contributing factor. It's just a thought... I'm no expert. Just an "old guy" chatting with other old guys looking at what existed then and now...

[jacksmar]

That shift is/was more directly tied to civil rights, race relations, hate crimes and a huge shift in the social conscientiousness in how treat each other broadly across the US.

ZZ, if you've filled out a lottery slip, that's all a sheriff''s dept. had to do in the late 80's and early 90's. It had age, race, gender, city, county, and basically Part I or Part II crime on the data slip provided back to FBI. It identified the victim in the same fashion. Fill in the circle. This worked fine and the data was 98% accurate. You could do pie charts, bar graphs, and real numbers per capita for example.

This worked until Vernon Jordan decided the circle was biased. That's a fact.

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https://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/22/us/some-experts-fear-political-influence-on-crime-data-agencies.html

The dispute about control of crime statistics and research came into the open recently after a Justice Department official leaked a major report by the Bureau of Justice Statistics to The Associated Press. The report was the bureau's annual study of the crime rate and had been held up for two months awaiting review by senior Justice Department officials, employees familiar with it say. The report showed a 9 percent decrease in violent crimes. Not one of these people has raised an accusation that this report, or any other, has been skewed.

Although it might seem arcane, the crime victims' survey was ''always hot news in the Justice Department'' and in the Clinton White House, Mr. Chaiken said, because data showing a drop in crime were beneficial to the administration.

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[Nickdfresh]

This is such an old man point of view.

Violent crime is lower now than it was when you were at school. The time you describe with the 'unused' knives and guns was one of the most violent in US history.

Video games probably reduce crime because you don't get so many bunches of disaffected youths hanging about bored outside looking for trouble, they are indoors pretending to kill each other online.





See that big fucking spike when you were a teenager (no I don't mean the one during the Depression. )





What caused the big drop in the 1990s? Video games or Bill Clinton? Or maybe abortions of unwanted future scumbags 18 years earlier kicking in but that's not something you'll ever hear a US politician admit.

Some have speculated that the return of suburbanites to big cities in itself is a deterrent effect as it's harder to be a scumbag with a lot more people on the streets...

[Nickdfresh]

ZZ, if you've filled out a lottery slip, that's all a sheriff''s dept. had to do in the late 80's and early 90's. It had age, race, gender, city, county, and basically Part I or Part II crime on the data slip provided back to FBI. It identified the victim in the same fashion. Fill in the circle. This worked fine and the data was 98% accurate. You could do pie charts, bar graphs, and real numbers per capita for example.

This worked until Vernon Jordan decided the circle was biased. That's a fact.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/22/us/some-experts-fear-political-influence-on-crime-data-agencies.html

The dispute about control of crime statistics and research came into the open recently after a Justice Department official leaked a major report by the Bureau of Justice Statistics to The Associated Press. The report was the bureau's annual study of the crime rate and had been held up for two months awaiting review by senior Justice Department officials, employees familiar with it say. The report showed a 9 percent decrease in violent crimes. Not one of these people has raised an accusation that this report, or any other, has been skewed.

Although it might seem arcane, the crime victims' survey was ''always hot news in the Justice Department'' and in the Clinton White House, Mr. Chaiken said, because data showing a drop in crime were beneficial to the administration.

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So basically you don't trust the idiots that you voted for and their Justice Dept.?

The fact is that you were THREE TIMES more likely to die a violent death in Colonial and Revolutionary America than you are today....

[Nitro Express]

Sesh... face it. You are no longer a young man yourself. May be time to adjust your delivery perspective...

I think you misunderstood my point... I clearly stated my time as a kid was much more violent and crime ridden than today. Statistical crime rates per capita today are significantly below what they were when both you and I were kids. No question about it.

Those committing crimes and who they are targeting has changed measurably though comparing then and now... we were discussing the matter of mass shootings with high capacity weapons in schools by students. A crime element that didn't exist back then...

I don't believe gaming nor Slick Willie Clinton had a damn thing to do with the drop in overall crime statistics. That shift is/was more directly tied to civil rights, race relations, hate crimes and a huge shift in the social conscientiousness in how treat each other broadly across the US. Today's violent crime is most concentrated in large cities, by younger age groups and directly tied to economic factors, the drug trade and warring within races.

Specific to these school shootings... I was making a correlation to a combination of mental illness, social isolation and potentially gaming may have had a contributing factor. It's just a thought... I'm no expert. Just an "old guy" chatting with other old guys looking at what existed then and now...

I think gaming has more to do with it than we admit. I was talking to an ex cop friend of mine and he said games and a lack of being taught right from wrong makes kids tend to be more violent. Saw an example of this yesterday. One of the kids in our neighborhood pulled a knife on his brother when a fight broke out over some popcorn. Now like I said, where I grew up everyone had a knife on them. Usually a nice lock blade. We never pulled our knifes even when we got into fist fights. You just didn't go there. Now kids go there immediately over who gets more popcorn. They really seem to be out of touch with how dangerous things like knives are. Why? They play with weapons on a game console. Something doesn't seem to register in their minds that a knife and an accident with one mind kill your brother and sure you are pissed at him at the moment but it nowhere justifies pulling a knife on him. We had knives and we had guns. I could have caused lots of carnage with my semiautomatic Browning shotgun I had as a kid. So could the other kids. Never happened. Why? We weren't playing violent video games and getting our reality messed up that way. We had discipline in the home and parents who taught us right from wrong. It all starts in the mind. I don't care what hardware you have available to you. Something has gone wrong where it wasn't wrong before.

It would be interesting to see what would happen to the murder rate if we legalized drugs. When I lived in Syracuse and Rochester, New York most the shootings were over drugs or turf wars. We created those problems by making booze illegal. It got better when prohibition was repealed. But then you have the for profit prison system to feed and certain agencies like their under the table money. Wells Fargo and HSBC are more than happy to launder the money and the FBI is more than happy to turn a blind eye to it.

[Nitro Express]

I grew up in very similar times with knives and guns everywhere... school violence consisted of fist fights. Most of which quickly degraded to pathetic wrasslin matches as nobody was very good at throwing punches to begin with.

I believe the problem with game consoles is the immersion factor and all that simulated violence has no consequences. Most kids don't end up emulating that shit in real life... but for the weak minded and mentally unstable it's not a good environment for them to spend significant time engaged in. That's a differing factor today that wasn't present growing up in the 60's & 70's as a kid.

Also especially in the 60's due to the civil rights movement and anti-war flareups... the US was a pretty dangerous place to live and grow up. People were making bombs and blowing up shit, killing people and even those who were supposed to be on the good side of the law were pretty brutal and violent. I recall the images and news reports from that era... it was much more violent with dire consequences than anything kids in the US have grown up with since... If you acted out inappropriately back then... society was swift, brutal and unforgiving in dishing out justice!

I shot skeet in high school. I had a very expensive over under shotgun and didn't want to leave it in my truck. the vice principal was a family friend and so I asked if I could keep my shotgun in his office. Sure no problem. I had a case for it but after the last class I went down to the principal's office, got my shotgun and walked down the school halls with it and headed for the skeet range. Different times indeed.

[Nitro Express]

Haha! That's exactly how those fights ended. Wrestling on the ground and good thing nobody knew how to throw a punch. Someone might actually have gotten really hurt. The girl fights were the most vicious. They would pull each other's hair and scratch each other like cats. Sounded like a cat fight too.

[jacksmar]

So basically you don't trust the idiots that you voted for and their Justice Dept.?

The fact is that you were THREE TIMES more likely to die a violent death in Colonial and Revolutionary America than you are today....

PROF TARDO, I believe you. I was talking to Mr Whoopee about that very issue...

[Nickdfresh]

I think gaming has more to do with it than we admit. I was talking to an ex cop friend of mine and he said games and a lack of being taught right from wrong makes kids tend to be more violent. Saw an example of this yesterday. One of the kids in our neighborhood pulled a knife on his brother when a fight broke out over some popcorn. Now like I said, where I grew up everyone had a knife on them. Usually a nice lock blade. We never pulled our knifes even when we got into fist fights. You just didn't go there. Now kids go there immediately over who gets more popcorn. They really seem to be out of touch with how dangerous things like knives are. Why? They play with weapons on a game console. Something doesn't seem to register in their minds that a knife and an accident with one mind kill your brother and sure you are pissed at him at the moment but it nowhere justifies pulling a knife on him. We had knives and we had guns. I could have caused lots of carnage with my semiautomatic Browning shotgun I had as a kid. So could the other kids. Never happened. Why? We weren't playing violent video games and getting our reality messed up that way. We had discipline in the home and parents who taught us right from wrong. It all starts in the mind. I don't care what hardware you have available to you. Something has gone wrong where it wasn't wrong before.

It would be interesting to see what would happen to the murder rate if we legalized drugs. When I lived in Syracuse and Rochester, New York most the shootings were over drugs or turf wars. We created those problems by making booze illegal. It got better when prohibition was repealed. But then you have the for profit prison system to feed and certain agencies like their under the table money. Wells Fargo and HSBC are more than happy to launder the money and the FBI is more than happy to turn a blind eye to it.

We do in fact have a legalized drug industry, the American pharmaceutical industry which has basically got a way with exacerbating the opiod crisis by lobbying to avoid any curtail. But I do think legalization of drugs and this is one area where actual 'socialism' might work with a gov't drug distribution system that empathizes treatment and forces people to take classes to get their drugs - this is already being done with success in Portugal...

[Seshmeister]

So basically you don't trust the idiots that you voted for and their Justice Dept.?

The fact is that you were THREE TIMES more likely to die a violent death in Colonial and Revolutionary America than you are today....

So now you're blaming the British Empire?

[Nitro Express]

We do in fact have a legalized drug industry, the American pharmaceutical industry which has basically got a way with exacerbating the opiod crisis by lobbying to avoid any curtail. But I do think legalization of drugs and this is one area where actual 'socialism' might work with a gov't drug distribution system that empathizes treatment and forces people to take classes to get their drugs - this is already being done with success in Portugal...

At the end of the day it all comes down to corruption in the government. Opiod's are a government regulated drug and as you stated all the pharmaceutical companies have to do is bribe the politicians. So even with regulation we have a big fail. Whether it's regulated capitalism or a socialist program ran out of the government it all boils down to who is regulating things. If too many people can be bought off then you are back to the same problem. Maybe it's not a drug problem but a bribery problem. The Chinese solved their opium problem by killing the users and the dealers. Maybe the only realistic way to solve things is to have a dictatorship that is anti-drug and bring the hammer down. Not that we want to go there but that might be the reality.

[Nickdfresh]

So now you're blaming the British Empire?

Well, the root of all evil you know

[Nitro Express]

As far as empires go the British probably ran the best one. Not squeaky clean by any means but certainly better than anything the Spanish or French were running.