Rolling Stone - Wolf & Ed

[Nitro Express]

Yeah they had Summer Nights before the Cabo taco head got the big break and turned Van Halen gay.

[Terry]

I believe Dave did work on Summer Nights or whatever they were calling it before it became that. And maybe Good Enough as Ed had the general riff from one of the tracks he did for the Wild Life.

Summer Nights was good far as the instrumentation went.

It's sort of hard for me to speculate which 5150 tracks could have lent themselves to the CVH treatment, because that whole 5150 album always sounded terrible to me in terms of how it was mixed. But, yeah, Summer Nights and perhaps the 5150 track itself were the two on that album I could imagine CVH turning into something worthwhile. Good Enough and Get Up were okay in terms of the instrumentation. Maybe those also could have worked up with Dave and turned into decent CVH tunes.

[Terry]

Yeah they had Summer Nights before the Cabo taco head got the big break and turned Van Halen gay.

I can't remember if it was in Dave's CFTH book or an interview or what, but I sort of recall Dave saying that the first album Van Halen did with Hagar had the benefit of them using whatever demos and rehearsals CVH had undertaken in preparation for the follow up to 1984 and using that stuff as a springboard or template for the 5150 album.

[Terry]

Yeah they had Summer Nights before the Cabo taco head got the big break and turned Van Halen gay.

Oh, that band top to bottom turned so PG-13 safe overnight after Hagar joined, it was shocking at the time.

It wasn't just Hagar, either. The music by and large lost a sense of urgency and edge. Maybe that was where Ed's head was at the time. I dunno. The band after Dave left...after the first 5150 single (Why Can't This Be Love?) came out in advance of the album...suddenly Van Halen became safe for the prudish, preppy snob high school girls who never put out - not even for their non-pot smoking jock high school boyfriends (maybe a little light petting strictly above the waist and over the shirt) - all of a sudden that crowd deemed Van Halen with Hagar to be acceptable. That crowd would literally say the band improved after Dave left.

The transition had sort of began 2 years prior with the Jump single, but at least that was followed up with Panama and Hot For Teacher. There wasn't any mistaking what Dave was singing about re: HFT, and it wasn't about Hallmark top 40 love sentiments...or Dreams.

[Von Halen]

I believe one of those sappy tracks presented to Dave in '85 was Dreams.

Yeah I would've said wtf to that as well.

Come on man. We are stretching it here. Dave had just come out with an EP with "Easy Street", "California Girls", "Just A Jigolo" and "Coconut Grove" on it. I doubt he was turning his nose up at much Ed brought to the table. If anything, I'd suspect Dave felt like anything Ed brought to the party, he could turn into a masterpiece.

[Seshmeister]

There were a couple of songs that it's rumored Dave had been given the music too already, from memory I think one was Summer Nights. Entirely different song with Dave coming up with the vocal melody (and lyrics) rather than the Hagar/Foreigner hybrid they ended up with.

Almost 40 years old and he's writing

Ain't no way I'm sittin' home tonight
I'll be out until the mornin' light
Just a hangin' 'round in the local parkin' lot
Oh, checkin' out all the girls, see what they got
Yeah they love it, when me an' the boys
Wanna play some love with them human toys
We wind 'em up n' let 'em go
Whoa oh yeah, whoa yeah, woo

Icky even then...

[Vinnie Velvet]

Come on man. We are stretching it here. Dave had just come out with an EP with "Easy Street", "California Girls", "Just A Jigolo" and "Coconut Grove" on it. I doubt he was turning his nose up at much Ed brought to the table. If anything, I'd suspect Dave felt like anything Ed brought to the party, he could turn into a masterpiece.

Ok I agree with ya but just the instrumentation of Dreams seemed even more sappier than say I'll Wait. I'm just saying its possible Dave didn't like the music.

[Vinnie Velvet]

I also recall Dave saying that he had worked on "...half of that album" when asked about 5150 in interviews.

Based on the timeline.....I think they started working in the studio sometime in February 1985.

March-April, they worked on it some more but many arguments, etc. At this point Ed didn't want to work with Ted anymore. Donn of course was there.

My understanding is that Monk was let go in April 1985? I think so.

So CVH really started to unravel during the months of May-June....and sometime it was in maybe late summer Dave had that meeting with Ed and said its not working out etc.

[Terry]

There were a couple of songs that it's rumored Dave had been given the music too already, from memory I think one was Summer Nights. Entirely different song with Dave coming up with the vocal melody (and lyrics) rather than the Hagar/Foreigner hybrid they ended up with.

Almost 40 years old and he's writing

Ain't no way I'm sittin' home tonight
I'll be out until the mornin' light
Just a hangin' 'round in the local parkin' lot
Oh, checkin' out all the girls, see what they got
Yeah they love it, when me an' the boys
Wanna play some love with them human toys
We wind 'em up n' let 'em go
Whoa oh yeah, whoa yeah, woo

Icky even then...

It never got any better from there, just as what he brought to Van Halen wasn't an upgrade from what he had been doing prior.

He could never raise his game even after he joined Van Halen, not even in comparison to Roth but just his own lyrics on their own terms. He never had any game to raise beyond what he was already doing before he joined Van Halen.

[Vinnie Velvet]

Oh, that band top to bottom turned so PG-13 safe overnight after Hagar joined, it was shocking at the time.

It wasn't just Hagar, either. The music by and large lost a sense of urgency and edge. Maybe that was where Ed's head was at the time. I dunno. The band after Dave left...after the first 5150 single (Why Can't This Be Love?) came out in advance of the album...suddenly Van Halen became safe for the prudish, preppy snob high school girls who never put out - not even for their non-pot smoking jock high school boyfriends (maybe a little light petting strictly above the waist and over the shirt) - all of a sudden that crowd deemed Van Halen with Hagar to be acceptable. That crowd would literally say the band improved after Dave left.

The transition had sort of began 2 years prior with the Jump single, but at least that was followed up with Panama and Hot For Teacher. There wasn't any mistaking what Dave was singing about re: HFT, and it wasn't about Hallmark top 40 love sentiments...or Dreams.

Dave was 100 percent right when he said in his book that the "chemistry turned rotten" which is why I truly believe if CVH took a hiatus and everyone did their own thing, including Dave and his movie deal and let Ed noodle with his idea of doing an album with various singers (a solo effort), it would've been good for the band.

They desperately needed time away from each other and a break from the touring which just amplified drink and drug usage.

[Terry]

Well, in 1985 they got that time they desperately needed away from each other.

Maybe if they took an extended break from each other following the conclusion of the 1984 tour the band would have lasted longer than it did.

Then again, they could have taken that break then ended up right where they were in early 1985 attitude-wise when they were rehearsing for their 7th album anyway.

By all accounts, Ed had pretty much reached the end of the line with Roth even before the 1984 album was released, much less the tour that followed. They all put their best faces on come showtime for the 1984 tour.

I have a feeling that Dave might not have been 100% aware of how fed up Eddie was with him as was the actual case come spring 1985. Maybe Roth was 100% aware but figured it was just Eddie bitching and it wasn't anything that was going to ultimately be fatal far as the band breaking up.

I dunno. Always felt like there was unfinished business with CVH, because they broke up while they were still on top. Felt that way to me at the time, anyway. Van Halen at the time was my favorite band. They had just come off one of their biggest selling albums, their biggest single and a sold-out tour. How could they, you know, break up?

Now, my perspective is that clearly there wasn't any unfinished business. Van Halen had those 6 years and 6 albums with Roth, and that was it. Bit of a tease in 1996, but they couldn't put it together beyond the 2 tracks. Yeah, Roth eventually rejoined in late 2006 and the band sans Anthony started touring again, but it was nostalgia at that point. Reverberations or echoes of when Van Halen had peaked decades ago. The ADKOT album was nostalgia. You'd get a few nostalgic glimmers here and there during 2007-2015 of how fucking great CVH had once been, but Van Halen ended in 1985. Didn't want them to at the time, and I can't say if they ended for the right reasons or not, but Van Halen ended in 1985.

But you know, 6 great albums in 6 years isn't a bad legacy or whatever you want to call it. 6 great albums that still resonate with me to this day.

[Vinnie Velvet]

Well, in 1985 they got that time they desperately needed away from each other.

Maybe if they took an extended break from each other following the conclusion of the 1984 tour the band would have lasted longer than it did.

Then again, they could have taken that break then ended up right where they were in early 1985 attitude-wise when they were rehearsing for their 7th album anyway.

By all accounts, Ed had pretty much reached the end of the line with Roth even before the 1984 album was released, much less the tour that followed. They all put their best faces on come showtime for the 1984 tour.

I have a feeling that Dave might not have been 100% aware of how fed up Eddie was with him as was the actual case come spring 1985. Maybe Roth was 100% aware but figured it was just Eddie bitching and it wasn't anything that was going to ultimately be fatal far as the band breaking up.

I dunno. Always felt like there was unfinished business with CVH, because they broke up while they were still on top. Felt that way to me at the time, anyway. Van Halen at the time was my favorite band. They had just come off one of their biggest selling albums, their biggest single and a sold-out tour. How could they, you know, break up?

Now, my perspective is that clearly there wasn't any unfinished business. Van Halen had those 6 years and 6 albums with Roth, and that was it. Bit of a tease in 1996, but they couldn't put it together beyond the 2 tracks. Yeah, Roth eventually rejoined in late 2006 and the band sans Anthony started touring again, but it was nostalgia at that point. Reverberations or echoes of when Van Halen had peaked decades ago. The ADKOT album was nostalgia. You'd get a few nostalgic glimmers here and there during 2007-2015 of how fucking great CVH had once been, but Van Halen ended in 1985. Didn't want them to at the time, and I can't say if they ended for the right reasons or not, but Van Halen ended in 1985.

But you know, 6 great albums in 6 years isn't a bad legacy or whatever you want to call it. 6 great albums that still resonate with me to this day.

I agree on all points.

Just a sad reminder of what could’ve been.

They all fucked it up in my opinion. Al would’ve lived his dream of his band being as big as Led Zeppelin.

As they certainly were charting in that direction.

Monk by early ‘85 was already looking to book stadium shows cause the demand for VH was just so big at the time. They just couldn’t keep playing multiple arena nights. The next logical step was stadiums.

And they also could’ve expanded their footprint in Europe and built upon their popularity in South America.

But the Van Halen’s didn’t want to tour outside North America for too long and Dave didn’t like playing stadiums.

Dumbasses. All of them.

[Terry]

I agree on all points.

Just a sad reminder of what could’ve been.

They all fucked it up in my opinion. Al would’ve lived his dream of his band being as big as Led Zeppelin.

As they certainly were charting in that direction.

Monk by early ‘85 was already looking to book stadium shows cause the demand for VH was just so big at the time. They just couldn’t keep playing multiple arena nights. The next logical step was stadiums.

And they also could’ve expanded their footprint in Europe and built upon their popularity in South America.

But the Van Halen’s didn’t want to tour outside North America for too long and Dave didn’t like playing stadiums.

Dumbasses. All of them.

In commercial terms, it seemed like there was nowhere to go but up for Van Halen in early 1985. Especially after the success of the 1984 album and the Jump single, which broadened the audience in popular terms. All those CFTH videos catapulted Roth into probably his biggest limelight moment of pop culture stardom. 1984-1985 was the year Van Halen/Roth crested the wave.

I'm not sure the band even then were quite at the point where they could have sold out stadiums across the US solely on the strength of their name alone along the lines of Zeppelin in 1977 or the Stones in 1981. Maybe. Maybe not. If not, they were close. Perhaps more likely in 1985 would have been a tour part large arenas, part stadiums (same as Zep '77 / Stones '81), with the stadium gigs having a name opening act.

Yeah, probably ego, ambition and various pills, powders and potions all combined to halt Van Halen's ascent to even greater commercial heights. I don't really consider the failure of that coming to pass as much of a shame as the music ending.

[Kristy]

I'll give some credence to the F A T little Wolf Man defending his family name. At the same time it's his family name that got him to where he is today without much in the way of paying any doooos. Because paying doooos is what the music biz is all about. The F A T Wolf Boy has some talent but there nothing original or groundbreaking about it like was the case with his daddy. The dude plays tiresome trad rock with a pinch of pseudo-metal here and there. He will not carry on any legacy of the family name but live off his percentage of Eddie's royalties become another F A T southern Californian trust fund shithead once his record contract runs day.

Look for him to go on his mother's food show as the F A T kid who "eats healthy"

[Nitro Express]

Wolfe doesn’t drink or smoke but he’s been obese his whole life. He was even fat when he was little. He probably already has signs of heart disease. Type 2 diabetes isn’t far off. I’ve seen people like Wolf drop dead in their early 50’s from both.

Wolf is just there. Sure he might beat the drums better than his dad did and he might construct whole songs, write lyrics and sing but there’s no magic or wow factor to it. Like many schmucks Wolf seems to use social media for both a psychiatrist and a punching bag. Not smart. Anyways will he be around in ten years? If he is nobody will care. *yawn*