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  • cadaverdog
    ROTH ARMY SUPREME
    • Aug 2007
    • 8955

    Originally posted by PETE'S BROTHER
    pretty sure they killed babies
    I'm pretty sure cocksucking by males was frowned upon though.
    Beware of Dog

    Comment

    • Seshmeister
      ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

      • Oct 2003
      • 35192

      Actually no...



      The 'Two-Spirit' People of Indigenous North Americans

      by Walter L Williams



      We-Wa, a Zuni Two Spirit, weaving.Native Americans have often held intersex, androgynous people, feminine males and masculine females in high respect. The most common term to define such persons today is to refer to them as "two-spirit" people, but in the past feminine males were sometimes referred to as "berdache" by early French explorers in North America, who adapted a Persian word "bardaj", meaning an intimate male friend. Because these androgynous males were commonly married to a masculine man, or had sex with men, and the masculine females had feminine women as wives, the term berdache had a clear homosexual connotation. Both the Spanish settlers in Latin America and the English colonists in North America condemned them as "sodomites".

      We-Wa, a Zuni Two Spirit.Rather than emphasising the homosexuality of these persons, however, many Native Americans focused on their spiritual gifts. American Indian traditionalists, even today, tend to see a person's basic character as a reflection of their spirit. Since everything that exists is thought to come from the spirit world, androgynous or transgender persons are seen as doubly blessed, having both the spirit of a man and the spirit of a woman. Thus, they are honoured for having two spirits, and are seen as more spiritually gifted than the typical masculine male or feminine female.

      Therefore, many Native American religions, rather than stigmatising such persons, often looked to them as religious leaders and teachers. Quite similar religious traditions existed among the native peoples of Siberia and many parts of Central and southeast Asia. Since the ancestors of Native Americans migrated from Siberia over 20,000 years ago, and since reports of highly respected androgynous persons have been noted among indigenous Americans from Alaska to Chile, androgyny seems to be quite ancient among humans.

      A Two Spirit.Rather than the physical body, Native Americans emphasised a person's "spirit", or character, as being most important. Instead of seeing two-spirit persons as transsexuals who try to make themselves into "the opposite sex", it is more accurate to understand them as individuals who take on a gender status that is different from both men and women. This alternative gender status offers a range of possibilities, from slightly effeminate males or masculine females, to androgynous or transgender persons, to those who completely cross-dress and act as the other gender. The emphasis of Native Americans is not to force every person into one box, but to allow for the reality of diversity in gender and sexual identities.

      Most of the evidence for respectful two-spirit traditions is focused on the native peoples of the Plains, the Great Lakes, the Southwest, and California. With over a thousand vastly different cultural and linguistic backgrounds, it is important not to overgeneralise for the indigenous peoples of North America. Some documentary sources suggest that a minority of societies treated two-spirit persons disrespectfully, by kidding them or discouraging children from taking on a two-spirit role. However, many of the documents that report negative reactions are themselves suspect, and should be evaluated critically in light of the preponderance of evidence that suggests a respectful attitude. Some European commentators, from early frontier explorers to modern anthropologists, also were influenced by their own homophobic prejudices to distort native attitudes.

      Another photograph of We-Wa, a Zuni two-spirit, weaving. Two-spirit people were respected by native societies not only due to religious attitudes, but also because of practical concerns. Because their gender roles involved a mixture of both masculine and feminine traits, two-spirit persons could do both the work of men and of women. They were often considered to be hard workers and artistically gifted, of great value to their extended families and community. Among some groups, such as the Navajo, a family was believed to be economically benefited by having a "nadleh" (literally translated as "one who is transformed") androgynous person as a relative. Two-spirit persons assisted their siblings' children and took care of elderly relatives, and often served as adoptive parents for homeless children.

      A Two Spirit known as We-Wa.A feminine male who preferred to do women's work (gathering wild plants or farming domestic plants) was logically expected to marry a masculine male, who did men's work (hunting and warfare). Because a family needed both plant foods and meat, a masculine female hunter, in turn, usually married a feminine female, to provide these complementary gender roles for economic survival. The gender-conforming spouse of two-spirit people did not see themselves as "homosexual" or as anything other than "normal".

      In the 20th-century, as homophobic European Christian influences increased among many Native Americans, respect for same-sex love and for androgynous persons greatly declined. Two-spirit people were often forced, either by government officials, Christian missionaries or their own community, to conform to standard gender roles. Some, who could not conform, either went underground or committed suicide. With the imposition of Euro-American marriage laws, same-sex marriages between two-spirit people and their spouses were no longer legally recognised. But with the revitalisation of Native American "red power" cultural pride since the 60s, and the rise of gay and lesbian liberation movements at the same time, a new respect for androgyny started slowly re-emerging among American Indian people.

      Because of this tradition of respect, in the 90s many gay and lesbian Native American activists in the United States and Canada rejected the French word berdache in favour of the term two-spirit people to describe themselves. Many non-American Indians have incorporated knowledge of Native American two-spirit traditions into their increasing acceptance of same-sex love, androgyny and transgender diversity. Native American same-sex marriages have been used as a model for legalising same-sex marriages, and the spiritual gifts of androgynous persons have started to become more recognised.

      Walter L Williams is the author of The Spirit and the Flesh (Boston: Beacon Press) and is Professor of Anthropology, History and Gender Studies at the University of Southern California.

      His most recent book is "Two Spirits: A Story of Life with the Navajo"

      Comment

      • Nitro Express
        DIAMOND STATUS
        • Aug 2004
        • 32797

        Someone should make a movie about Native American faggots. They already did a couple gay cowboy movies. No gay Indian movies. That's discrimination.
        No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

        Comment

        • DONNIEP
          DIAMOND STATUS
          • Mar 2004
          • 13373

          Originally posted by Seshmeister
          So what you're saying is...you're a homosaxual? Well, I guess that's ok. So long as you have a manly looking boyfriend. Like Burt Reynolds or Magnum. And so long as y'all don't hold hands and hug and kiss. Cause that's gayer than hell.
          American by birth. Southern by the grace of God.

          Comment

          • Angel
            ROTH ARMY SUPREME
            • Jan 2004
            • 7481

            Originally posted by WARF
            If you're black/white any color. They should do a screening of intelligence, background check etc etc

            If you're not a piece of shit, then you can stay ... If NOT exterminate.
            You do realize you're signing your own death warrant right?
            "Ya know what they say about angels... An angel is a supernatural being or spirit, usually humanoid in form, found in various religions and mythologies. Plus Roth fan boards..."- ZahZoo April 2013

            Comment

            • Angel
              ROTH ARMY SUPREME
              • Jan 2004
              • 7481

              Originally posted by cadaverdog
              Horseshit. They let thousands of draft dodgers live there during the Viet Nam war. If they decided to reinstate the draft here Id be willing to bet they'd let draft dodgers stay there again.
              That was a different time, and draft dodgers weren't government sponsored. Hell, it was a completely different system then. If the draft was reinstated, the current government would probably accept them. Harper's government wouldn't have. He sent a few deserters back...
              "Ya know what they say about angels... An angel is a supernatural being or spirit, usually humanoid in form, found in various religions and mythologies. Plus Roth fan boards..."- ZahZoo April 2013

              Comment

              • Seshmeister
                ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

                • Oct 2003
                • 35192

                Originally posted by DONNIEP
                So what you're saying is...you're a homosaxual?
                I never played the saxophone in my life!

                Comment

                • SunisinuS
                  Crazy Ass Mofo
                  • May 2010
                  • 3301

                  Young People crack me up. So a background check at 24 means you won't change your mind at 25?

                  You thought control police place faith in bullshit and don't care about danger. Lock up everybody you nubs. Starting with you.

                  Can't Control your Future. Can't Control your Friends. The women start to hike their skirts up. I didn't have a clue. That is when I kinda learned how to smile a lot. One Two Three Fouir fun ter thehr fuur.

                  Comment

                  • Angel
                    ROTH ARMY SUPREME
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 7481

                    Originally posted by WARF
                    Exactly.
                    They're DEAD!
                    Just like we will be!
                    THEY ARE NOT DEAD!!!! Well, those guys are, but not their ancestors.

                    WTF? I always see First Nations people in the US making comments about people saying they're all dead and don't get it.

                    Newsflash WARF. They didn't kill all the Indians...
                    "Ya know what they say about angels... An angel is a supernatural being or spirit, usually humanoid in form, found in various religions and mythologies. Plus Roth fan boards..."- ZahZoo April 2013

                    Comment

                    • Angel
                      ROTH ARMY SUPREME
                      • Jan 2004
                      • 7481

                      Originally posted by PETE'S BROTHER
                      pretty sure they killed babies
                      That would very much depend on which tribe they were from. Many tribes revere children and the punishment for harming a child is banishment from the community.
                      "Ya know what they say about angels... An angel is a supernatural being or spirit, usually humanoid in form, found in various religions and mythologies. Plus Roth fan boards..."- ZahZoo April 2013

                      Comment

                      • SunisinuS
                        Crazy Ass Mofo
                        • May 2010
                        • 3301

                        Originally posted by cadaverdog
                        Horseshit. They let thousands of draft dodgers live there during the Viet Nam war. If they decided to reinstate the draft here Id be willing to bet they'd let draft dodgers stay there again.

                        Look up Desmond Doss you one direction thinker. If it was not for people standing up for their conscious you would not be able to have your mommy continue to breastfeed you in public.



                        He fought for all of us that did not want to kill people for political manipulation to serve honorably as Medics. Medal of Honor Winner....just so you could fight for George Bush.

                        Look it up. How smart brave people don't pick up a gun for a king.

                        Bleh. You can love your Country and Embiggen dem people...without having a small dick and no balls just so you say you carry a gun. Get your fucking Camero out of my front lawn you small dick Machismo-less dumb fuck. Like any of us want you sitting in Judgment with your Gun on what we were doing in that restaurant you idiot "open carry" uneducated ignorant dumbfuck. Put down your gun and put up your dukes like a real man. A grandmother in a wheel-chair can shoot somebody. Fucking Pussy.

                        Only Putin, Kim, and grandmothers threaten people in a war of ideas with guns. Get Bent nub...or show up. Eating meat, carrying a gun, and destroying the planet makes you neither a leader nor a good guy. False bravery behind a gun is over fer yer.
                        Last edited by SunisinuS; 01-21-2016, 01:35 AM.
                        Can't Control your Future. Can't Control your Friends. The women start to hike their skirts up. I didn't have a clue. That is when I kinda learned how to smile a lot. One Two Three Fouir fun ter thehr fuur.

                        Comment

                        • Angel
                          ROTH ARMY SUPREME
                          • Jan 2004
                          • 7481

                          Originally posted by cadaverdog
                          I'm pretty sure cocksucking by males was frowned upon though.
                          Wrong again. Two-spirited people were highly regarded. Many medicine men were two-spirit (gay). A lot of tribes had 4 genders...
                          "Ya know what they say about angels... An angel is a supernatural being or spirit, usually humanoid in form, found in various religions and mythologies. Plus Roth fan boards..."- ZahZoo April 2013

                          Comment

                          • SunisinuS
                            Crazy Ass Mofo
                            • May 2010
                            • 3301

                            There is a village in South America where men grow up female and until 13 don't turn into males...via BIOLOGY.

                            Weird. Freaky. But Natural. The village does not hurt these kids. But you others in your "infinite wisdom" think only about what your pappy taught you in North Carolina.

                            Idiots. Look it up.

                            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/scie...s-aged-12.html *

                            You act like you want to help the world, but you are so ignorant of how it works. Why not instead...cut off little girls clits to save what Freud and Masters and Johnson says about your Id? You make Daesh Proud.



                            I am so sick of these "men" that offer nothing to the world except small dicks and denigration and guns.

                            Fuck You. Become a leader or crawl back into your Manifesto. Become a real Man: Kind, loving, smart, educated and giving. That might just be too hard for you.


                            You talk about Black Men not being an example: Why don't you White Men show up without your needledick overcompensation for what "life didn't give you" and make the world a better place with YOUR example?

                            If the "White Man" didn't start this whole mess....why don't you be the White Man that starts the healing?










                            *“By a quirk of chance Dr Imperato’s research was picked up by the American pharmaceutical giant, Merck. They used her discovery to create a drug called finasteride, which blocks the action of 5-α-reductase.

                            “It is now widely used to treat benign enlargement of the prostate and male pattern baldness. For which, I’m sure, many men are truly grateful.”**

                            **Except the hateful homophobes.
                            Last edited by SunisinuS; 01-21-2016, 02:06 AM.
                            Can't Control your Future. Can't Control your Friends. The women start to hike their skirts up. I didn't have a clue. That is when I kinda learned how to smile a lot. One Two Three Fouir fun ter thehr fuur.

                            Comment

                            • cadaverdog
                              ROTH ARMY SUPREME
                              • Aug 2007
                              • 8955

                              Originally posted by SunisinuS
                              Look up Desmond Doss you one direction thinker. If it was not for people standing up for their conscious you would not be able to have your mommy continue to breastfeed you in public.
                              All I did was state a fact. Canada harbored draft dodgers during the Viet Nam war and would probably do it again in response to Angel saying Canada didn't accept refugees from the U S. I can only assume the rest of your ramblings are the end result of overindulging in alcohol.
                              BTW I drive a pick up truck, not a Camaro.
                              Beware of Dog

                              Comment

                              • cadaverdog
                                ROTH ARMY SUPREME
                                • Aug 2007
                                • 8955

                                Originally posted by Angel
                                Wrong again. Two-spirited people were highly regarded. Many medicine men were two-spirit (gay). A lot of tribes had 4 genders...
                                No wonder them redskins kept getting their asses kicked by the white man. They were all a bunch of limp wristed sperm burpers.
                                Beware of Dog

                                Comment

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