Vaccine Anyone?

**Seshmeister** · 05-23-2023, 05:53 PM

They were not experimental they were all put through the standard safety testing before being rolled out to the public. 

They were also all put through clinical trials with tens of thousands of people to prove they worked before they were rolled out.

This was all years ago now and you are still spouting the same stuff that isn't true that seems to be a mixture of a movie you saw, something a guy said in a bar and some stuff you read that your aunt posted on her social media.

**Nickdfresh** · 05-23-2023, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by Romeo Delight

I think that isn't the right analogy.

More like:

"The Pinto has been tested as the safetest car ever made. Not only will this go down with the Gremlin as the most stylish car in history, but it prevents deaths from rear-end collisions specifically. If you don't buy a Pinto, your employment will be terminated as not having a Pinto is a true marker of irresponsibility and certain disregard for life. We will certainly shame you for choices other than a Pinto in any public way possible. It is a Pinto or nothing moving forward. This is the way"

Yeah but the Pinto wasn't that bad of a car and was no more likely to explode out its asshole after being rear-ended than the equivalent Corolla or Civic. Gremlins were ugly as fuck but are sought out now by collectors. Buffalo Bills fan Pinto Ron has several hundred thousand miles on his Ford Pinto, along with a lot of condiments...

And yes the employment thing is tough, but there have always been jobs that mandatory vaccines were a prerequisite. I can see a factory floor where most are relatively young and in shape being exempted, but then they may have had spouses, parents, immuno-compromised relatives, etc. But education, the military, white collar professions have had either vaccine mandates or just assumes if you graduated secondary schools or college you already were mandated...

**Seshmeister** · 05-23-2023, 06:23 PM

Also almost no libertarians at the time seemed to pick up on the fact that they were campaigning for THE GOVERNMENT to force private companies to employ people that they didn't want to i.e. the unvaccinated.

Is that not kind of fucked up?

**Romeo Delight** · 05-23-2023, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh

Yeah but the Pinto wasn't that bad of a car and was no more likely to explode out its asshole after being rear-ended than the equivalent Corolla or Civic. Gremlins were ugly as fuck but are sought out now by collectors. Buffalo Bills fan Pinto Ron has several hundred thousand miles on his Ford Pinto, along with a lot of condiments...

And yes the employment thing is tough, but there have always been jobs that mandatory vaccines were a prerequisite. I can see a factory floor where most are relatively young and in shape being exempted, but then they may have had spouses, parents, immuno-compromised relatives, etc. But education, the military, white collar professions have had either vaccine mandates or just assumes if you graduated secondary schools or college you already were mandated...

I kinda liked the Gremlin

**Seshmeister** · 05-23-2023, 06:35 PM

**Romeo Delight** · 05-23-2023, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by Seshmeister

They were not experimental they were all put through the standard safety testing before being rolled out to the public. 

They were also all put through clinical trials with tens of thousands of people to prove they worked before they were rolled out.

This was all years ago now and you are still spouting the same stuff that isn't true that seems to be a mixture of a movie you saw, something a guy said in a bar and some stuff you read that your aunt posted on her social media.

Have you spent any time understanding how clinical trials work?

They reject "troublesome" results as "non compliant" Net effect is side effects are grossly understated at a minimum, and gross negligence is the more likely effect. If you examine any of the judgements against pharma over the years, you would understand better what type of behaviours are more likely. Do the work my friend before talkign about things you aren't familiar with.

Dr. Aseem Malhotra goes through what typically happens in the pharma and medical profession, with, surprise suprise, $$$$$ driving drug approvals and policy, disregarding data. He discusses Statin Drugs here, and touches on Covid - Joe Rogans Episode #1979.

If you don;t like Joe Rogan, Dr. Malhotra has written on this subject.

Aseem Malhotra - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aseem_Malhotra

Any deep dive on the "approvals" for these vaccines shows they are highly suspect at best, thoroughly corrupt more likely:

Covid-19: Researcher blows the whistle on data integrity issues in Pfizer’s vaccine trial

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635

Revelations of poor practices at a contract research company helping to carry out Pfizer’s pivotal covid-19 vaccine trial raise questions about data integrity and regulatory oversight. Paul D Thacker reports In autumn 2020 Pfizer’s chairman and chief executive, Albert Bourla, released an open letter to the billions of people around the world who were investing their hopes in a safe and effective covid-19 vaccine to end the pandemic. “As I’ve said before, we are operating at the speed of science,” Bourla wrote, explaining to the public when they could expect a Pfizer vaccine to be authorised in the United States.1 But, for researchers who were testing Pfizer’s vaccine at several sites in Texas during that autumn, speed may have come at the cost of data integrity and patient safety. A regional director who was employed at the research organisation Ventavia Research Group has told The BMJ that the company falsified data, unblinded patients, employed inadequately trained vaccinators, and was slow to follow up on adverse events reported in Pfizer’s pivotal phase III trial. Staff who conducted quality control checks were overwhelmed by the volume of problems they were finding. After repeatedly notifying Ventavia of these problems, the regional director, Brook Jackson (video 1), emailed a complaint to the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Ventavia fired her later the same day. Jackson has provided The BMJ with dozens of internal company documents, photos, audio recordings, and emails. Video 1 Whistleblower Brook Jackson tells The BMJ about her experience working on the Pfizer covid-19 vaccine trial On its website Ventavia calls itself the largest privately owned clinical research company in Texas and lists many awards it has won for its contract work.2 But Jackson has told The BMJ that, during the two weeks she was employed at Ventavia in September 2020, …

FDA oversight of clinical trials is “grossly inadequate,” say experts

https://www.bmj.com/content/379/bmj.o2628

Covid-19 vaccines and drugs were developed at “warp speed” and now experts are concerned that the US Food and Drug Administration inspected too few clinical trial sites. Maryanne Demasi reports On 25 September 2020, the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) received a complaint by Brook Jackson who had been working for Ventavia Research Group, a Texas based company hired to run clinical trials for Pfizer’s covid-19 mRNA vaccine. Jackson, a regional director, had witnessed problems at three trial sites she was overseeing and complained to an FDA inspector about a range of problems including falsified data, unblinded patients, and inadequately trained vaccinators who were slow to follow up on adverse events. “I thought that the FDA was going to swoop in and take care of everything. What I was reporting was so important,” Jackson told The BMJ . The FDA did not, however, inspect the trial sites in question. This lack of oversight was not an isolated case, The BMJ has learnt. Regulatory documents show that only nine out of 153 Pfizer trial sites1 were subject to FDA inspection before licensing the mRNA vaccine. Similarly, only 10 out of 99 Moderna trial sites2 and five of 73 remdesivir trial sites3 were inspected. Now, facing a backlog of site inspections, experts have criticised the FDA’s oversight of clinical trials, describing it as “grossly inadequate.” They say the problem, which predated covid-19, is not limited to a lack of inspections but also includes failing to notify the public or scientific journals when violations are identified—effectively keeping scientific misconduct from the medical establishment. The FDA is “endangering public health” by not being candid about violations that are uncovered during clinical trial site inspections, says David Gortler, a pharmacist and pharmacologist who worked as an FDA medical reviewer between 2007 …

Page not available - PMC

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7996517/

**Seshmeister** · 05-23-2023, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by Romeo Delight

Have you spent any time understanding how clinical trials work?

They reject "troublesome" results as "non compliant" Net effect is side effects are grossly understated at a minimum, and gross negligence is the more likely effect. If you examine any of the judgements against pharma over the years, you would understand better what type of behaviours are more likely. Do the work my friend before talkign about things you aren't familiar with.

Dr. Aseem Malhotra goes through what typically happens in the pharma and medical profession, with, surprise suprise, $$$$$ driving drug approvals and policy, disregarding data. He discusses Statin Drugs here, and touches on Covid - Joe Rogans Episode #1979.

If you don;t like Joe Rogan, Dr. Malhotra has written on this subject.

Aseem Malhotra - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aseem_Malhotra

Any deep dive on the approvals for these vaccines shows they are highly suspect at best, thoroughly corrupt more likely

After looking at that Wiki page I think I prefer Rogan to that guy.

There is a lot wrong with medical research and pharma making false claims about drug efficacy especially around them running lots of studies until they get a favorable one.

If you want to dig into it then there was an excellent book on it Bad Pharma by Ben Goldacre which came out 10 years ago and as far as I know nothing much has been done about it since.

Bad Pharma by Ben Goldacre – review

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/oct/17/bad-pharma-ben-goldacre-review

I don't think it's relevant to the approval of the COVID vaccines though and I'm willing to stick out my neck and trust all the medical associations and public health departments in all the countries of the world v. The Ploppi diet guy.

**Romeo Delight** · 05-23-2023, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by Seshmeister

After looking at that Wiki page I think I prefer Rogan to that guy.

There is a lot wrong with medical research and pharma making false claims about drug efficacy especially around them running lots of studies until they get a favorable one.

If you want to dig into it then there was an excellent book on it Bad Pharma by Ben Goldacre which came out 10 years ago and as far as I know nothing much has been done about it since.

Bad Pharma by Ben Goldacre – review

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/oct/17/bad-pharma-ben-goldacre-review

I don't think it's relevant to the approval of the COVID vaccines though and I'm willing to stick out my neck and trust all the medical associations and public health departments in all the countries of the world v. The Ploppi diet guy.

Say what you will, but his work on Statins was brave and correct. These should never have been used in the manner they were. The approval system for Drugs is highly flawed. At least be somewhat aware...

He was correct about Statin drugs and at significant cost and risk to his career...he has integrity and risked it all to do the right thing. Imagine if others did too? So much is broken here. Your faith in the existing approval system is misguided.

Page not available - PMC

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4513492/

**Seshmeister** · 05-23-2023, 07:14 PM

Well be somewhat aware that these guys go on Joe Rogan and some of the stuff they say is true and then they add a bunch of cherry picked things and convincingly may add some wrong things and no one especially not Rogan has the time or knowledge to fully fact check them. Look at the paragraph on Wiki who are always pretty meticulous about avoiding libel with living people.

Malhotra initially campaigned in favour of taking the COVID vaccine.[12][3] Later however, he campaigned against the use of COVID mRNA vaccines[13] contrary to the available evidence.[14] In November 2021, Malhotra appeared on GB News to discuss an abstract for an academic poster published by Steven Gundry and which the American Heart Association had warned may contain "potential errors". Malhotra claimed that the abstract supported "a significantly increased risk from 11% at five years, the risk of heart attack, to 25%." after taking mRNA vaccines against COVID-19. Full Fact warned that "Serious concerns have been raised as to the quality of the research".[69]

In September 2022, Malhotra publicly campaigned against the use of COVID mRNA vaccines.[13] An AFP factcheck warned of his claims: "This is false; experts say his research misleads on the risks of vaccination by cherry-picking evidence and relying on flawed studies, and public health authorities agree the benefits of the shots outweigh the risks."[3]

The Editor of The Lancet, Richard Horton, reported on a presentation by Malhotra 7 November 2022 at a public meeting organised by the Association of Naturopathic Practitioners at Friends Meeting House, London.

'Malhotra's method of argument deserves scrutiny to understand why it persuades some people. Frame one's view as the reluctant endpoint of a personal journey. Quote respected scientists. Stand up to corporates. Place oneself firmly on the side of patients. Emphasise well described concerns about the presentation of research evidence. Allude to correlations. Make the call for access to raw data an issue of trust and transparency.

After the meeting descended into chaos, Horton observed that 'this descent into unreason is what happens when you inflame public anxieties. It needs to stop.'Frank Han, a pediatric cardiologist, reviewed Malhotra's 20 claims in the presentation and concluded the majority were unsupported by scientific evidence.

On 13 January 2023, during a BBC interview on the prescription of statins, Malhotra made unprompted claims about excess cardiac deaths and Covid vaccines. The BBC apologized that these claims were not challenged at the time.[72] The British Heart Foundation and scientific experts including noted immunologist Peter Openshaw subsequently refuted the claims.

All these people saying he is wrong aren't Big Pharma or corporations, they are academics, independent clinical scientists and charities.

**Nickdfresh** · 05-23-2023, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by Romeo Delight

Regarding 2 and 3...It is now agreed upon with recent studies and by The CEO of Pfizer that their vaccine (or any other) was never meant to and they never claimed that it prevented infection. Did you miss all of this? Kinda a key point don't you think. This isn't opinion, but now a known fact and from the horse's mouth as well as studies. As far as masks, we can talk all about best of intentions all we want, but there is literally zero evidence or study that proves any effectiveness. The new studies priove the masks didn't help stop the spread. A miracle they were allowed to occur at all given the all-in buy-in from the regimes in power. I remember all too well the early days. I also remember following the data closely and also remembering that 3 months in, the evidence had chancged dramatically. Data wasn't followed. I had Professor friends of mine begging a newspaper to listen to them for a balanced look at the current data. What do you think happenned?

Regarding vaccine mandates, Nickd, are you serious? There was a gun to your head...get vaxxed or lose your job. Really? Here is a great example of the insanity:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mlykQ2SlY5Q

Nice fucking Youtube video of some dumb fucking Canadian inbred, SICENCE!!! No, I guess I missed that, feel free to link any peer reviewed studies!

**Seshmeister** · 05-23-2023, 07:21 PM

They never made it to Europe but I knew I had heard of the Pinto before - connected to James Bond - it was the flying car in The Man With The Golden Gun.

**Seshmeister** · 05-23-2023, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by Romeo Delight

I always wondered who "Kristy" was..

Who knows but it's not an alias of another user just fucking with everyone.

**Seshmeister** · 05-23-2023, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by Romeo Delight

Any deep dive on the "approvals" for these vaccines shows they are highly suspect at best, thoroughly corrupt more likely:

Covid-19: Researcher blows the whistle on data integrity issues in Pfizer’s vaccine trial

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635

Revelations of poor practices at a contract research company helping to carry out Pfizer’s pivotal covid-19 vaccine trial raise questions about data integrity and regulatory oversight. Paul D Thacker reports In autumn 2020 Pfizer’s chairman and chief executive, Albert Bourla, released an open letter to the billions of people around the world who were investing their hopes in a safe and effective covid-19 vaccine to end the pandemic. “As I’ve said before, we are operating at the speed of science,” Bourla wrote, explaining to the public when they could expect a Pfizer vaccine to be authorised in the United States.1 But, for researchers who were testing Pfizer’s vaccine at several sites in Texas during that autumn, speed may have come at the cost of data integrity and patient safety. A regional director who was employed at the research organisation Ventavia Research Group has told The BMJ that the company falsified data, unblinded patients, employed inadequately trained vaccinators, and was slow to follow up on adverse events reported in Pfizer’s pivotal phase III trial. Staff who conducted quality control checks were overwhelmed by the volume of problems they were finding. After repeatedly notifying Ventavia of these problems, the regional director, Brook Jackson (video 1), emailed a complaint to the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Ventavia fired her later the same day. Jackson has provided The BMJ with dozens of internal company documents, photos, audio recordings, and emails. Video 1 Whistleblower Brook Jackson tells The BMJ about her experience working on the Pfizer covid-19 vaccine trial On its website Ventavia calls itself the largest privately owned clinical research company in Texas and lists many awards it has won for its contract work.2 But Jackson has told The BMJ that, during the two weeks she was employed at Ventavia in September 2020, …

FDA oversight of clinical trials is “grossly inadequate,” say experts

https://www.bmj.com/content/379/bmj.o2628

Covid-19 vaccines and drugs were developed at “warp speed” and now experts are concerned that the US Food and Drug Administration inspected too few clinical trial sites. Maryanne Demasi reports On 25 September 2020, the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) received a complaint by Brook Jackson who had been working for Ventavia Research Group, a Texas based company hired to run clinical trials for Pfizer’s covid-19 mRNA vaccine. Jackson, a regional director, had witnessed problems at three trial sites she was overseeing and complained to an FDA inspector about a range of problems including falsified data, unblinded patients, and inadequately trained vaccinators who were slow to follow up on adverse events. “I thought that the FDA was going to swoop in and take care of everything. What I was reporting was so important,” Jackson told The BMJ . The FDA did not, however, inspect the trial sites in question. This lack of oversight was not an isolated case, The BMJ has learnt. Regulatory documents show that only nine out of 153 Pfizer trial sites1 were subject to FDA inspection before licensing the mRNA vaccine. Similarly, only 10 out of 99 Moderna trial sites2 and five of 73 remdesivir trial sites3 were inspected. Now, facing a backlog of site inspections, experts have criticised the FDA’s oversight of clinical trials, describing it as “grossly inadequate.” They say the problem, which predated covid-19, is not limited to a lack of inspections but also includes failing to notify the public or scientific journals when violations are identified—effectively keeping scientific misconduct from the medical establishment. The FDA is “endangering public health” by not being candid about violations that are uncovered during clinical trial site inspections, says David Gortler, a pharmacist and pharmacologist who worked as an FDA medical reviewer between 2007 …

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7996517/

I'll maybe have a look at these especially the 3rd as I was given Moderna.

I did totally know at the time that the vaccines lessened the effects but didn't stop you getting it. Surprised you were surprised to be honest, I think that was well known over here at least.

**twonabomber** · 05-23-2023, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by Seshmeister

They never made it to Europe but I knew I had heard of the Pinto before - connected to James Bond - it was the flying car in The Man With The Golden Gun.

Not a Pinto. That was an AMC Matador coupe.

**FORD** · 05-23-2023, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by twonabomber

NickD wants to know what your degree is in...

Don't need a degree to know the difference between a parasite and a virus. I learned that in jr high biology.

Vaccine Anyone?

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment