Stomp Box Addiction? Compulsive FX Disorder? You decide......

[chefcraig]

Anyone wanna see Pagey at his worst, look at video of the ARMS Benefit with Clapton, Beck, Page, etc. where he does an instrumental version of Stairway To Heaven.....the solo is so butcheringly awful he should have just stopped playing and left the stage.....and it is quite obvious the other heavyweight players on the stage were VERY aware of it.

Not only his playing, but his appearance and mannerisms were deeply disturbing as well. He looked to be about 90 pounds soaking wet (which he was, as he was sweating profusely) and was doing all of these exaggerated movements that were an embarrassing parody of his former self.

All in all, the guy was a selfish, self-absorbed junkie, and had been one since sometime in 1976. This explains why there is little if any footage of the band after that time on the Led Zeppelin DVD, save for the Knebworth show in 1979. Even then, you can see several parts where Plant is looking at Page in pure disgust, and where the singer pretty much just gives up at the end, blowing all of the vocal ques in "Whole Lotta Love." Plant) generally looks like he rather be anywhere else than on the stage, and of course Page already was in another universe entirely.

And don't get me started on the 1985 Live Aid or the 1988 Atlantic Records shows. How he managed to clean himself up a few months later for the outstanding Outrider tour I'll never know.

[Kristy]

But seriously...you make it sound like JP is in the same group as SH come on people......Jimmy Page guitarist of one of the best band in Rock history along with the mighty VH...poking fun at JP is like making fun of EVH in my book...You cannot disrespect the guitar gods

Are you on dope? The two are not comparable but for sake of argument, I will anyway.

For one, Jimmy Page does have talent. He has to to be able to pull of the blatant thievery such as he did. His "chops" as a guitar player were marginal at best and thus hardly worth "respect." Page came from a sheltered white English suburban background (as did all of the members of Zep) who, like most white players who appreciated black/blues music never completely understood it; he managed to keep his audience just as ignorant and maintained it by flying Zeppelin (pun intended) under the plagiarist radar for years. If I am to ever give that limey rat bastard any credit it would be in the way Page handled Zeppelin as a businessman more than musician. Of course, a lot of Zep's success did lie with Peter Grant who shred business tactics gave Zeppelin that lewd reputation they were so know for off stage. Page definitively knew how to run Zep like a corporation. He thumbed his nose at the top brass of Atlantic Records never allowing any one of them in a session or give any criticism or input. In fact, Page went to great lengths to draw out contracts to keep record execs out of his doings as long as they sold records. Page also shut out "hangers on", groupies, even family members and allowed for little democratic process when it came to the rest of band's ideas to present themselves. Plant said it himself that Zep was "purely Jimmy's band and that the rest of us were just the missing pieces he needed to fill in his attitude." It's no surprise Plant has no interest in a Zeppelin reunion.

Page was/is an asshole and by rights had to be to keep Zeppelin as popular as he did. Problem with him (as with the rest of the Zeppelin) is that Page let his own success fuck him up: drugs, alcohol, lawsuits for his plagiarism, and a dwindling lack of ideas from 'Physical Graffiti' onwards. To me, all but the first Zep record were recorded poorly with bad mixes and horrible overdubs. Their last album is by far the most ear fatigue listening bag of shit I've ever heard, garbled nonsense made by a junkie fuckwit still disillusioned by the notion that he had something left in him to say. He did not and has not ever since.

Eddie, on the other hand, also came from a white suburban sheltered lifestyle, but unlike Page, came out with a sound that was unheard of before. Eddie never really revolutionized guitar playing but he did in the way of electric guitar tone. Eddie built his own axe from the ground up, he took the instrument to a new level in a way that shocked many people in that the guitar didn't have to play the same role as it always did (especially in a power trio setup). Eddie was/is a thief, too but unlike Page was vociferous abut who he stole from and instead of recycling his influences, he took what he liked, revamped it and tossed out the rest. Unlike Page, Eddie was not a good businessman with VH instead opting for focusing his interest in the playing rather than the money. Eddie made some horrible decisions: the hiring of Hagar, refusing payment for playing on Michel Jackson's record, and then the abomination that was VH III comes to mind. In fact it was Hager alone that literally destroyed anything that was pure about VH, turning the band into another bunch of overpaid rockstar scum and VH went to fun to just another shitty corporate-influenced machine selling their souls to the likes of Pepsi for fuck's sake. That was really the end of VH as far I am concerned.

Like Page, Eddie was a fuck up. Again, drugs, drink, cancer and even a failed marriage took the best out of him (he never really played the same since). Unilke Page, Eddie alienated his hard core fan base remaining reclusive and a wee bit angry as a result. The VH 2004 Tour was a god damn joke, a last hurrah for the Sammy's bank account and VH's credibility. Even with this new album (which leaves me unsettled), finds Eddie attempting to redeem himself and he seems to have the right attitude to make it through. And finally, every VH album (yes, including the Sammy years) were well recorded, produced and mixed as to any shitty, hissy ear fatigue crap that was Zeppelin. At least VH put some god damn thought process into the making of a record!

So you see they are not "gods" but rather fuck up alcoholics and junkies who are not immune to criticisms for their mistakes in life. Eddie is a musical genius but is also an asshole. Jimmy Page is just an asshole.

[Nitro Express]

"Jimmy Page plays like he has a broken hand or something. He's a great producer and Led Zeppelin I and II are very good albums but I've never seen Jimmy Page play well live." --Eddie Van Halen--

Led Zeppelin were managed by mobsters. Bill Graham had a nasty run in with them. Led Zeppelin was playing at a show Graham was promoting. They wanted a lot of money in cash in advance. Graham had to go to several banks to get the cash and then when he arrived, Zeppelin's manager was there with heavily armed drug thugs who wanted to be paid. The money was for the drugs. Then one of Graham's roadies told some kid breaking into a backstage area to get lost. It turned out it was John Bonham's son and Zeppelin's manager and Bonham demanded to see the roadie. When the roadie entered the trailer they locked the door so Bill Graham couldn't get in and worked his roadie over almost killing him. Bill Graham who was a holocaust survivor said the thuggery he saw backstage at that Led Zeppelin show reminded him of Nazi Germany. They band and their management had that mentality and they were just plain thugs believing them to be above the law and decency. Bill Graham swore he would do all he could to keep that band from ever coming to the San Francisco Bay area ever again. Clearly the band had ties to some well connected criminal organizations and felt they had license to abuse and do whatever they wanted.

[Kristy]

Page was always a pop-sloppy guitar player. Fuck him. I hope he dies a painful death and soon.

[Etienne]

But seriously...you make it sound like JP is in the same group as SH come on people......Jimmy Page guitarist of one of the best band in Rock history along with the mighty VH...poking fun at JP is like making fun of EVH in my book...You cannot disrespect the guitar gods

I like Led Zeppelin's studio recordings. All of them. They are groundbreaking.

Live? There are many documents which show a Jimmy Page who plays sloppy live, mostly in the lead passages.

Nonetheless, one of the most important rock bands of history.

[DLR Bridge]

I like Led Zeppelin's studio recordings. All of them. They are groundbreaking.

Live? There are many documents which show a Jimmy Page who plays sloppy live, mostly in the lead passages.

Nonetheless, one of the most important rock bands of history.

Sloppy in glorious fashion on the How The West Was Won CD. Love it.

[Kristy]

I like Led Zeppelin's studio recordings. All of them. They are groundbreaking.

Live? There are many documents which show a Jimmy Page who plays sloppy live, mostly in the lead passages.

Nonetheless, one of the most important rock bands of history.

I see. "Groundbreaking" you say? In what way? In that all Zep recordings should be placed in a deep grave and left there never to see the light of day ever again?

[DLR Bridge]

Regarding the effects set up at the top, there is a guy known as Static who plays for the kick ass band, Ours who has a similar set up. Saw him use it a couple of times. The guy builds up a crescendo of delayed loops of sounds that really is interesting live. Very hypnotic.

[Etienne]

I see. "Groundbreaking" you say? In what way? In that all Zep recordings should be placed in a deep grave and left there never to see the light of day ever again?

1. Because the sound of the band wasn't heard before. The early recordings.

2. You can hear in almost every modern, post Zep, rock riff influences by Jimmy Page. Especially in Van Halen.

[Kristy]

1. Because the sound of the band wasn't heard before. The early recordings.

2. You can hear in almost every modern, post Zep, rock riff influences by Jimmy Page. Especially in Van Halen.

Okay, you are on drugs.

Their sound was heard before. I'd say try listening to any artist on the Chess Record label first before saying such an absurdity.

As for Eddie being influenced by Page...please, see a therapist.

[So this is love]

Are you on dope? The two are not comparable but for sake of argument, I will anyway.

For one, Jimmy Page does have talent. He has to to be able to pull of the blatant thievery such as he did. His "chops" as a guitar player were marginal at best and thus hardly worth "respect." Page came from a sheltered white English suburban background (as did all of the members of Zep) who, like most white players who appreciated black/blues music never completely understood it; he managed to keep his audience just as ignorant and maintained it by flying Zeppelin (pun intended) under the plagiarist radar for years. If I am to ever give that limey rat bastard any credit it would be in the way Page handled Zeppelin as a businessman more than musician. Of course, a lot of Zep's success did lie with Peter Grant who shred business tactics gave Zeppelin that lewd reputation they were so know for off stage. Page definitively knew how to run Zep like a corporation. He thumbed his nose at the top brass of Atlantic Records never allowing any one of them in a session or give any criticism or input. In fact, Page went to great lengths to draw out contracts to keep record execs out of his doings as long as they sold records. Page also shut out "hangers on", groupies, even family members and allowed for little democratic process when it came to the rest of band's ideas to present themselves. Plant said it himself that Zep was "purely Jimmy's band and that the rest of us were just the missing pieces he needed to fill in his attitude." It's no surprise Plant has no interest in a Zeppelin reunion.

Page was/is an asshole and by rights had to be to keep Zeppelin as popular as he did. Problem with him (as with the rest of the Zeppelin) is that Page let his own success fuck him up: drugs, alcohol, lawsuits for his plagiarism, and a dwindling lack of ideas from 'Physical Graffiti' onwards. To me, all but the first Zep record were recorded poorly with bad mixes and horrible overdubs. Their last album is by far the most ear fatigue listening bag of shit I've ever heard, garbled nonsense made by a junkie fuckwit still disillusioned by the notion that he had something left in him to say. He did not and has not ever since.

Eddie, on the other hand, also came from a white suburban sheltered lifestyle, but unlike Page, came out with a sound that was unheard of before. Eddie never really revolutionized guitar playing but he did in the way of electric guitar tone. Eddie built his own axe from the ground up, he took the instrument to a new level in a way that shocked many people in that the guitar didn't have to play the same role as it always did (especially in a power trio setup). Eddie was/is a thief, too but unlike Page was vociferous abut who he stole from and instead of recycling his influences, he took what he liked, revamped it and tossed out the rest. Unlike Page, Eddie was not a good businessman with VH instead opting for focusing his interest in the playing rather than the money. Eddie made some horrible decisions: the hiring of Hagar, refusing payment for playing on Michel Jackson's record, and then the abomination that was VH III comes to mind. In fact it was Hager alone that literally destroyed anything that was pure about VH, turning the band into another bunch of overpaid rockstar scum and VH went to fun to just another shitty corporate-influenced machine selling their souls to the likes of Pepsi for fuck's sake. That was really the end of VH as far I am concerned.

Like Page, Eddie was a fuck up. Again, drugs, drink, cancer and even a failed marriage took the best out of him (he never really played the same since). Unilke Page, Eddie alienated his hard core fan base remaining reclusive and a wee bit angry as a result. The VH 2004 Tour was a god damn joke, a last hurrah for the Sammy's bank account and VH's credibility. Even with this new album (which leaves me unsettled), finds Eddie attempting to redeem himself and he seems to have the right attitude to make it through. And finally, every VH album (yes, including the Sammy years) were well recorded, produced and mixed as to any shitty, hissy ear fatigue crap that was Zeppelin. At least VH put some god damn thought process into the making of a record!

So you see they are not "gods" but rather fuck up alcoholics and junkies who are not immune to criticisms for their mistakes in life. Eddie is a musical genius but is also an asshole. Jimmy Page is just an asshole.

I did not say they were saint in anyways....talentwise (totally dig the songs they've written) for me these two guys are up there and they are GUITAR GODS...Now for the rest of your post I agree somewhat you but that was not the point of my comment...

[So this is love]

"Jimmy Page plays like he has a broken hand or something. He's a great producer and Led Zeppelin I and II are very good albums but I've never seen Jimmy Page play well live." --Eddie Van Halen--

Led Zeppelin were managed by mobsters. Bill Graham had a nasty run in with them. Led Zeppelin was playing at a show Graham was promoting. They wanted a lot of money in cash in advance. Graham had to go to several banks to get the cash and then when he arrived, Zeppelin's manager was there with heavily armed drug thugs who wanted to be paid. They money was for the drugs. Then one of Graham's roadies told some kid breaking into a backstage area to get lost. It turned out it was John Bonham's son and Zeppelin's manager and Bonham demanded to see the roadie. When the roadie entered the trailer they locked the door so Bill Graham couldn't get in and worked his roadie over almost killing him. Bill Graham who was a holocaust survivor said the thuggery he saw backstage at that Led Zeppelin show reminded him of Nazi Germany. They band and their management had that mentality and they were just plain thugs believing them to be above the law and decency. Bill Graham swore he would do all he could to keep that band from ever coming to the San Francisco Bay area ever again. Clearly the band had ties to some well connected criminal organizations and felt they had license to abuse and do whatever they wanted.

I am well aware of Ed's comment it was in GW. As for the history bit, this world we live right now is not any different just being runned in a more hypocrit way.

[Kristy]

(totally dig the songs they've written)

I do too. As in burying them - especially the Hagar years.

[Nitro Express]

Page was always a pop-sloppy guitar player. Fuck him. I hope he dies a painful death and soon.

He always looked like a dork on stage. First he wore sweaters on stage and then he went even gayer than that by going with those hideous dragon suits.

[Etienne]

Okay, you are on drugs.

Their sound was heard before. I'd say try listening to any artist on the Chess Record label first before saying such an absurdity.

Give me an example, please. So we can investigate it track per track.