COS 1984 Article

[FORD]

Well, Dave wrote some "dirty old man" lyrics on YFLM, but at least he did it with a little class....

She needed classical music
Or she couldn't make love at all
And I was up there frequently
And bringin' down the walls

Drop dead bombshell
Clean-cut classy gal
She was a good pal

And if you turned up the volume
You could hear her demons call
She'd say, "Fuck me like Chopin
Or don't fuck me at all."

Tell me what you want
And I'll take the scenic route
Tell me what you want
With your filthy little mouth

How 'bout a little Henry Miller
With your Huckleberry Finn
Assume the position, honey
Let's begin

I'd bet Sammy doesn't know who Chopin or Henry Miller are. And he probably only knows Huck Finn from some movie he saw when he was a kid.

[Terry]

I think age comes into it too and I thought it at the time.

When Hagar was writing lyrics like that on 5150 he was 39 which seemed like your old man cat calling your fellow students - creepy.

By the time Roth was that age he was writing the YFLM album not Everybody Wants Some.

When I first heard Good Enough, right off the bat I remember thinking Hagar was copping a Roth, and getting it wrong. It came across as inauthentic. Then, as Vinnie Velvet mentioned, 2 albums later he's churning out drivel like Black And Blue, with a Dr.Suess rhyme scheme and all the charm of a Motley Crue tune. And along the lines of what you say, Sesh, such basic 'let's fuck' lyrics are perhaps understandable from a hair metal meathead frontman in his early 20s. Hagar is in his late 30s to mid 40s by this point: clearly he has little in the arsenal other than Hallmark Moon/June-level aspirational sentiments or 'let's fuck' tunes to offer.

With Roth, there was some subtlety and wit there, even when he was in his 20s fronting CVH. Naturally, those qualities sailed right over Hagar's head, so when he tried to mimic Dave in terms of approach he fell into the same trap a lot of those post-CVH LA bands did when they were borrowing from what CVH did, where the guitar players took the flash of Eddie's style without - for a large part - the great songwriting hooks and riffs and the lead singers got the base sexual elements Dave projected without the sense of humor.

[Nickdfresh]

I always thought Hagar's entire career was copping other people and being inauthentic - hopping on any trend that came along from dewy-pop lovy wuvy songs to tired rockers rather than doing anything innovative or interesting....

[Vinnie Velvet]

When I first heard Good Enough, right off the bat I remember thinking Hagar was copping a Roth, and getting it wrong. It came across as inauthentic. Then, as Vinnie Velvet mentioned, 2 albums later he's churning out drivel like Black And Blue, with a Dr.Suess rhyme scheme and all the charm of a Motley Crue tune. And along the lines of what you say, Sesh, such basic 'let's fuck' lyrics are perhaps understandable from a hair metal meathead frontman in his early 20s. Hagar is in his late 30s to mid 40s by this point: clearly he has little in the arsenal other than Hallmark Moon/June-level aspirational sentiments or 'let's fuck' tunes to offer.

With Roth, there was some subtlety and wit there, even when he was in his 20s fronting CVH. Naturally, those qualities sailed right over Hagar's head, so when he tried to mimic Dave in terms of approach he fell into the same trap a lot of those post-CVH LA bands did when they were borrowing from what CVH did, where the guitar players took the flash of Eddie's style without - for a large part - the great songwriting hooks and riffs and the lead singers got the base sexual elements Dave projected without the sense of humor.

Great post.

And that's what separates CVH from all the other bands that tried to copy them - including Van Hagar!

[Terry]

I always thought Hagar's entire career was copping other people and being inauthentic - hopping on any trend that came along from dewy-pop lovy wuvy songs to tired rockers rather than doing anything innovative or interesting....

Certainly applies to his solo career in the late 1970s/early 1980s. Very derivative of what other bands did in terms of guitar work (riffs, hooks, etc.). Haven't listened beyond a few tunes to his post-Van Hagar stuff (nor do I intend to) but I'd be hard-pressed to imagine as a solo artist he has gotten any better. There wasn't anything Chickenfoot did that smacked of being particularly innovative to my ears in terms of songwriting even when Satriani was playing with them. Then again, Satriani has always been more of a technician than a composer when I consider his overall career.

The two things Hagar was involved with that approached quality were Montrose and Van Hagar. Each of those bands had some decent to good moments, but to my ears said moments all had to do with what was going on in instrumental terms rather than the vocals or lyrics...and Hagar really wasn't responsible for the instrumental moments either of those bands had, quality or otherwise.

[Igosplut]

Nothing like trying to pour cold water on something that was just a Damn good time 35 years in the rear view mirror.

[ZahZoo]

That's the problem with today's culture. Things like comedy (which is what the HFT video is) especially suffers because of it.

Yeah, I'm thinking we'll soon be calling this the butt-hurt era...

Sadly... what many considered harmless, satirical comedy during their younger days... it's now being seriously classified as harmful racism, sexism, oppression, whatever negative label you want to apply to it. If you give it some sincere thought... in some cases, maybe these things we innocently thought were harmless... were not.

The challenge I question... Should one be made to feel guilty for the cultural things now deemed inappropriate in the time period they grew up in..?

I have no plans to fucking apologize to anyone for growing up in the 60's/70's/80's...

[Terry]

Yeah, I'm thinking we'll soon be calling this the butt-hurt era...

Sadly... what many considered harmless, satirical comedy during their younger days... it's now being seriously classified as harmful racism, sexism, oppression, whatever negative label you want to apply to it. If you give it some sincere thought... in some cases, maybe these things we innocently thought were harmless... were not.

The challenge I question... Should one be made to feel guilty for the cultural things now deemed inappropriate in the time period they grew up in..?

I have no plans to fucking apologize to anyone for growing up in the 60's/70's/80's...

Which, I mean...CVH was never considered kid-safe or family-friendly entertainment back in the day, for starters. And even just a casual glance at the top music acts of the last 15 years from the point of view of an old geezer such as myself...I mean, it's not like exploiting sexuality to sell records/tv shows/movies has exactly tapered off in any way with the new century: does one really need to go back nearly 4 decades to make that argument?

[Seshmeister]

Well also we could start a thread on creepy misogynist lyrics way way worse than Van Halen.

For example

Run for Your Life

The Beatles



Well, I'd rather see you dead, little girl
Than to be with another man
You better keep your head, little girl
Or you won't know where I am

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand, little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl

Well, you know that I'm a wicked guy
And I was born with a jealous mind
And I can't spend my whole life
Trying just to make you toe the line

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand, little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl

Let this be a sermon
I mean everything I've said
Baby, I'm determined
And I'd rather see you dead

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand, little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl

I'd rather see you dead, little girl
Than to be with another man
You better keep your head, little girl
Or you won't know where I am

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand, little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl

Na, na, na
Na, na, na
Na, na, na
Na, na, na

Songwriters: John Lennon / Paul Mccartney

[FORD]

Admittedly not one of John's best. Hard to believe he's the same guy who wrote "Imagine".
Actually, the song was directly inspired by Elvis Presley's "Baby Let's Play House", which has the following verse.....

Now listen to me, baby
Try to understand.
I'd rather see you dead, little girl,
Than to be with another man.
Now baby,
Come back, baby, come.
Come back, baby, come.
Come back, baby, I wanna play house with you.

[FORD]

I always thought Hagar's entire career was copping other people and being inauthentic - hopping on any trend that came along from dewy-pop lovy wuvy songs to tired rockers rather than doing anything innovative or interesting....

I don't think he ever got over his Robert Plant fetish. Not that he ever sounded remotely like Plant, but he tried to look like him. And even that last band of his was essentially a Zep cover band, right down to having Jason Bonham as a drummer. I'll bet Sammy is insanely jealous of the kid from Greta Van Fleet who actually CAN sing like Plant.

[ZahZoo]

Which, I mean...CVH was never considered kid-safe or family-friendly entertainment back in the day, for starters. And even just a casual glance at the top music acts of the last 15 years from the point of view of an old geezer such as myself...I mean, it's not like exploiting sexuality to sell records/tv shows/movies has exactly tapered off in any way with the new century: does one really need to go back nearly 4 decades to make that argument?

Most of the content of popular music, especially in the last 60 years, has been more of a reflection of the life/culture of 20-30 year olds... never kid safe... generally teen appealing... but considering the age range and content it's actually deeply "family-friendly" in the sense that all that partying and sex, sooner or later, leads to babies and the starting of... a family!

I'd deem that wholesome and the butt-hurt folks should be damn thankful that their existence sprang from the anthem of Everybody Wants Some and Girls Gone Wild...

[chuckjitsu]

Didn't have a problem with the lyrics in 1984, don't have a problem with them now. And is "steak-headed sexuality" all you got? Get the fuck out of here with that. If you want "steak-headed sexuality", hold my beer and i'll get Sam on the phone for you.

[ZahZoo]

Didn't have a problem with the lyrics in 1984, don't have a problem with them now. And is "steak-headed sexuality" all you got? Get the fuck out of here with that. If you want "steak-headed sexuality", hold my beer and i'll get Sam on the phone for you.

Never heard the term "steak-headed sexuality"... googled it. Came up empty.

Is this something better grilled or smoked..?

[Seshmeister]

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=steakhead