MA Reveals When He First 'Came To The Conclusion' That DLR Was 'Bipolar'

[Heater]

Dave wasn't thrilled with either Jump or I'll Wait. Ed didn't think much of the covers Roth did on his CFTH EP.

All the principals agree that the rehearsals in the spring of 1985 for the follow-up to the 1984 album didn't go well. The personality clashes over the years could be worked through when everyone was basically on the same page musically. Once Roth and Ed started finding less common ground on a musical level, doubtless all the other non-musical issues got exacerbated.

It was almost as if they had done all they would be able to together at that level. Maybe that area of Ed’s musical well was dry which is why his stylings were changing. Interesting that Dave wasn’t thrilled with Jump, more interesting is that he essentially spent the next 27 years singing that very song, as a country song, a big band/orchestra version, even in a techno dj rave version….he sang it a lot.

I love the original incarnation. The second has some excellent music as well, not necessarily the riff driven bangers initially associated with the band, but some strong songs. The big difference between the two, at least to me, is when you are sitting at a red light blaring some VH, if someone pulls up next to you, you carry on. If you are playing VH mach2 and you see someone pull up next to you, you turn it down.

[Nickdfresh]

If Roth had stayed what would their next few albums have been like? Ed wrote the music, and that was the music he was writing then. And were any of Dave’s albums, or any of his SONGS, for that matter, on par with the initial 6 VH albums?

5150 would have been a better album at least, can't say what would follow as yes the main problem was Ed sequestering himself at his studio of that name effectively minimizing band interaction and cutting down a lot on Dave's input...

I'd give part of my swollen left nut to hear what might have been "Eat Thy Neighbor" (ultimately "Summer Nights")...

[nick500]

5150 would have been a better album at least, can't say what would follow as yes the main problem was Ed sequestering himself at his studio of that name effectively minimizing band interaction and cutting down a lot on Dave's input...

I'd give part of my swollen left nut to hear what might have been "Eat Thy Neighbor" (ultimately "Summer Nights")...

I would say yes, the albums would have been better. Dave was a lot pickier with regard to song selection.
Some of the obvious rehash stuff on 5150 would never have made the cut with him. The synths would not have been an issue. It worked so why he would be against it now? Why Dave quit is beyond me.
Didn't they start Dreams with him?

[Nitro Express]

5150 would have been a better album at least, can't say what would follow as yes the main problem was Ed sequestering himself at his studio of that name effectively minimizing band interaction and cutting down a lot on Dave's input...

I'd give part of my swollen left nut to hear what might have been "Eat Thy Neighbor" (ultimately "Summer Nights")...

5150 was originally built to be a sound proof practice space for Ed. It was never intended to be the band’s home base. Ed had Donn Landee buy some used equipment and install it to record samples but when Ed discovered you could record a whole album 5150 became more than that and I think that was a major factor in breaking up the band.

It was not a great studio. The control room was cramped and Al had to use electronic drums because the recording space was small. One reason 1984 has a unique drum sound. Ted Templeman hated recording there.

[Nitro Express]

I would say yes, the albums would have been better. Dave was a lot pickier with regard to song selection.
Some of the obvious rehash stuff on 5150 would never have made the cut with him. The synths would not have been an issue. It worked so why he would be against it now? Why Dave quit is beyond me.
Didn't they start Dreams with him?

Ted Templeman went with Dave because Dave had a better feel for the audience. The Van Halen’s were savants which most talented musicians tend to be.

[Nitro Express]

As talented as Eddie was, I don’t think he would have become famous without Dave. Dave understood promotion and showmanship better. I think it’s unrealistic to think egos that big could stay together once success came. Dave wanted to take full advantage of 1984’s success. Being impatient he did Crazy From the Heat and the success from that made him create his own band which was great but doing that destroyed Van Halen. Sammy Hagar woul be a side note of the 70’s and 80’s if Dave didn’t Persue his own interests. There would be no Cabo Wabo because that started with Van Halen. So Dave made Sam by default.

[Nitro Express]

Most successful acts last five years. That’s about how long Van Halen lasted.

[Terry]

Most successful acts last five years. That’s about how long Van Halen lasted.

It's one of things where at the time the split was announced in 1985 it seemed like CVH had more juice in the tank. While it might seem to be just a rationalization - because the band split - it may well be that the band didn't have any juice left in the tank. Eddie and Dave just couldn't paper over their differences on either a personality level or a musical level. Or didn't want to, which amounted to the same thing.

It is true that most successful rock acts don't last very long, and even the ones that do defy the 5-10 year rule tend to exist in band name only. For every band like Rush who managed to crank out good material beyond a decade with the same/definitive lineup there are far more brand bands who might still be out there touring but have few (if any) members of their definitive lineup and haven't come up with anything decent on a creative level in decades.

Van Halen as it was when they were at their peak managed to come up with 6 fantastic albums. There were tensions between Roth and the Van Halens even before Roth joined the band...may well be another rationalization, but it was perhaps more amazing that lineup stayed together as long as they did.

[Nitro Express]

The guys in Rush were actually friends. It was more than a working relationship. You have that plus three guys who are passionate about what they do and they keep it going. That’s very rare.

[Von Halen]

Rammstein has had the same 6 members for what, 20 something years at least? Extremely rare not to have replaced at least one member.

Van Halen had 6 great albums. I'd like to think had Dave stayed, they'd have had at least 10. Some will argue the 4 with Clichegar are also great, so they do have 10 great albums under the Van Halen name. As a whole, I don't think the Van Hagar albums have stood the test of time nearly as well as the Van Halen albums. My girlfriend is a Dave era fan. But she's more of a fan of the more popular tunes. When we are cruising in the dune buggy and I have the playlist on the 6 pack, she will hear a song she's never heard or rarely heard and every time will go "Wow, that's another great song." Really, the only song I skip in the whole playlist, is "Jump". I didn't like it the first time I ever heard it, and I still don't like it. I can close my eyes and go back to the first time it was played on the radio. I was so disappointed. My buddies razzed the shit out of me too. But then, the rest of the album came out. Wow. To come out with an album like that, and then break up the band after the tour. A fucking travesty. It's just a shame the way it all played out. I have to believe they all have their regrets. I believe even Ed had regrets. They did so much between 78 and 84, and so little between 2007 and 2015 new music wise. I don't think Ed ever believed the sands of time were running out. Then boom. They did. Quickly.

Man, I'm still devastated over the break up after 1984. I'm still devastated Ed is gone.

[Vinnie Velvet]

They desperately needed a break from all things VH by 1985. And especially a break from each other.

Many bands of the era had done this. To release creative tension you allow band members to go out and do solo projects but making sure the band was still unified. VH just didnt have that strong of a management team to foster something like that. Noel did what he could but he wasn't great at dealing with the strong personalities. Van Hagar would've imploded long before '96 but Leffler was good at keeping it together.

So lets say the CVH break happened the way it should've....let Dave do CFTH and his movie. Heck, let Eddie do more tv soundtracks and even do some songs with various singers for his solo album. Allow Alex to get sober.

Then by 1987 reconvene and pump out the follow up to 1984 by 1988.

[Nitro Express]

They desperately needed a break from all things VH by 1985. And especially a break from each other.

Many bands of the era had done this. To release creative tension you allow band members to go out and do solo projects but making sure the band was still unified. VH just didnt have that strong of a management team to foster something like that. Noel did what he could but he wasn't great at dealing with the strong personalities. Van Hagar would've imploded long before '96 but Leffler was good at keeping it together.

So lets say the CVH break happened the way it should've....let Dave do CFTH and his movie. Heck, let Eddie do more tv soundtracks and even do some songs with various singers for his solo album. Allow Alex to get sober.

Then by 1987 reconvene and pump out the follow up to 1984 by 1988.

Good call. What VH got with Sammy was a great manager. Probably the main reason they had any success. Notice VH fell apart after that manager died.

[Seshmeister]

It is true that most successful rock acts don't last very long, and even the ones that do defy the 5-10 year rule tend to exist in band name only. For every band like Rush who managed to crank out good material beyond a decade with the same/definitive lineup there are far more brand bands who might still be out there touring but have few (if any) members of their definitive lineup and haven't come up with anything decent on a creative level in decades.

Even Rush started at early Van Halen creativity level and ended at well, end Van Halen creativity level. Rush released 10 studio albums in their first decade, 5 in the second, 2 in the 3rd and 2 in the last.

[Seshmeister]

The guys in Rush were actually friends. It was more than a working relationship. You have that plus three guys who are passionate about what they do and they keep it going. That’s very rare.

Plus a lot less cocaine than Van Halen. I don't think it's a helpful drug for band unity and long term friendships.

In the 90s bands moved on to heroin and then instead of cocaine egos causing bands to split up the problem became band members not being able to function or just plain dying.

[FORD]

Good call. What VH got with Sammy was a great manager. Probably the main reason they had any success. Notice VH fell apart after that manager died.

Leffler was probably a decent enough manager for them. Since we already have the Rush comparisons in this thread though, their manager seemed to work for them too... which is ironic, since he destroyed any other band he touched. That would be our old friend Ray Danniels, of course.