Dave & Dave Unchained VH Podcast

[Terry]

Unamed VH insider sources is much like the good ol PENTHOUSE FORUM. You knew it was bullshit but you read it anyways and enjoyed it.

Starting in 1996, guessing what might be happening behind the scenes was more entertaining than what the band were actually doing.

During the CVH era, the music was so good I didn't really wonder much what was going on behind the curtain. I just assumed it was a non-stop party.

I never wondered in the least what was taking place offstage during the Hagar years at the time, because who gave a shit?

[Terry]

Anyways Van Halen the band died in 1984. Everything that came after paled in comparison. By the time Roth got back fronting them he was too old and really the only reason to see them was to see Eddie play but for most the 2000's that wasn't even worth seeing. At least Ed had one good tour before he went. It was like seeing Babe Ruth hit one last home run.

I'd say Ed had two good tours before he went (the last two), but your Babe Ruth analogy is spot-on. Ed was able to muster enough discipline and self-restraint to replicate what he had done 25 years ago, and for that characterization to be deemed a success only illustrates how far the downward spiral was before Ed managed to pull out of the tailspin.

And, yeah, those guys just waited way too long to get it together. When all those rumors started circulating in 2018 about the band maybe (finally) getting something together with Anthony, my own reaction was the same in that it was too late. Keeping in mind that I was utterly stoked in 1996 of the chance that CVH would fully reunite, and went to see them on the first two Roth reunion tours. By 2018, Dave was a decade past the point where he could have brought what was needed to make a CVH reunion worth seeing.

[ZahZoo]

I'd say Ed had two good tours before he went (the last two), but your Babe Ruth analogy is spot-on. Ed was able to muster enough discipline and self-restraint to replicate what he had done 25 years ago, and for that characterization to be deemed a success only illustrates how far the downward spiral was before Ed managed to pull out of the tailspin.

And, yeah, those guys just waited way too long to get it together. When all those rumors started circulating in 2018 about the band maybe (finally) getting something together with Anthony, my own reaction was the same in that it was too late. Keeping in mind that I was utterly stoked in 1996 of the chance that CVH would fully reunite, and went to see them on the first two Roth reunion tours. By 2018, Dave was a decade past the point where he could have brought what was needed to make a CVH reunion worth seeing.

One of the things that insider mentioned was around 2018 or 2019 Wolfgang was done with Van Halen, the band, and wanted to do his own thing. I believe that opened the door for Ed and/or Al to consider bringing Michael Anthony back into the game. Prior to that... I don't think Ed had any desire to do a damn thing with the band unless it was working with Wolfgang.

[Terry]

Miles Copeland said the biggest enemy of an act is themselves. Acts self destruct and often a manager can't stop it; especially, if it's substance abuse issues which Van Halen was having problems with. But you make a great point. I always maintained what kept Van Halen going for a bit was they got great management when Sammy's manager took over and look at what happened to that band when that manager passed away.

Van Halen couldn't manage it's way out of a paper bag on it's own.

One certainly can't say that Leffler was unable to guide the band through years that proved to be far more deleterious for Van Halen's contemporaries, in terms of keeping the band as commercially viable as they had been during the Roth years. The record sales waned, but that may well have been the case even if Roth had stayed with the band.

"Oh, yeah? Hey, fuck that, you closet Red Spammula lover! If Dave had stayed with band, Van Halen would have been the biggest thing ever, and by the early 1990s they would have been selling out the entire country of Brazil when they played there!!"

Yeah, well, by the time YFLM came out, Dave could barely get...well, he still COULD get arrested, but not because his record sales were in the stratosphere. So, it doesn't necessarily follow that had Roth stayed in the band they would have been doing better business than with Hagar. Maybe, but not definitely.

And when the Van Halens finally did take over stewardship of the band after Hagar departed, what were the choices made? A quickie with Roth that was probably a bad move from the start, in the sense that if the Van Halens never intended to do a full-length album and a tour with Roth they would have been better off not even bothering with a couple new tracks: nobody likes a tease if it never leads to full contact. After that debacle, we got a milk ad, then...Gary Cherone. Then a bunch of monetizing of the EVH logo on everything from guitar gear to shoestrings. Perhaps not an unwise business decision, but it cheapened what was left of the image. Then, a few half-baked (even by Sam Halen standards) tracks for the second greatest hits album in under a decade.

But after 2000, 'Van Halen' to me seemed less of a band than a brand, anyway, and that was true even after Dave rejoined.

[Terry]

One of the things that insider mentioned was around 2018 or 2019 Wolfgang was done with Van Halen, the band, and wanted to do his own thing. I believe that opened the door for Ed and/or Al to consider bringing Michael Anthony back into the game. Prior to that... I don't think Ed had any desire to do a damn thing with the band unless it was working with Wolfgang.

I don't think so, either re: Wolfgang. It felt to me at the time and still feels now that Ed basically liked playing with his kid, and Wolfgang was sensible enough to realize that come 2006 what people still wanted to see from Van Halen above all else was Roth back in the band. So, we got about the best we could from the band in realistic terms. Personally, I think even as late as 2007 a CVH reunion would have been viable, in that I would have still been interested in seeing it.

But, whatever. We got what we got. It's all 'roads not taken' and moot now, anyway.

[Nitro Express]

Classic Van Halen was a non-stop party. But when Alex starts seeing giant penises growing out of the walls and Ed is doing so much coke dust clouds float out of his clothes like Pigpen, it’s time to take a break and tidy things up a bit.

[Nitro Express]

I'd say Ed had two good tours before he went (the last two), but your Babe Ruth analogy is spot-on. Ed was able to muster enough discipline and self-restraint to replicate what he had done 25 years ago, and for that characterization to be deemed a success only illustrates how far the downward spiral was before Ed managed to pull out of the tailspin.

And, yeah, those guys just waited way too long to get it together. When all those rumors started circulating in 2018 about the band maybe (finally) getting something together with Anthony, my own reaction was the same in that it was too late. Keeping in mind that I was utterly stoked in 1996 of the chance that CVH would fully reunite, and went to see them on the first two Roth reunion tours. By 2018, Dave was a decade past the point where he could have brought what was needed to make a CVH reunion worth seeing.

I will give Janie Ed’s second wife credit for turning him around. He got something from her he wasn’t getting from the others. The man was really happy finally and you could see it. He was having the time of his life the last time I saw him play.

[Nitro Express]

One certainly can't say that Leffler was unable to guide the band through years that proved to be far more deleterious for Van Halen's contemporaries, in terms of keeping the band as commercially viable as they had been during the Roth years. The record sales waned, but that may well have been the case even if Roth had stayed with the band.

"Oh, yeah? Hey, fuck that, you closet Red Spammula lover! If Dave had stayed with band, Van Halen would have been the biggest thing ever, and by the early 1990s they would have been selling out the entire country of Brazil when they played there!!"

Yeah, well, by the time YFLM came out, Dave could barely get...well, he still COULD get arrested, but not because his record sales were in the stratosphere. So, it doesn't necessarily follow that had Roth stayed in the band they would have been doing better business than with Hagar. Maybe, but not definitely.

And when the Van Halens finally did take over stewardship of the band after Hagar departed, what were the choices made? A quickie with Roth that was probably a bad move from the start, in the sense that if the Van Halens never intended to do a full-length album and a tour with Roth they would have been better off not even bothering with a couple new tracks: nobody likes a tease if it never leads to full contact. After that debacle, we got a milk ad, then...Gary Cherone. Then a bunch of monetizing of the EVH logo on everything from guitar gear to shoestrings. Perhaps not an unwise business decision, but it cheapened what was left of the image. Then, a few half-baked (even by Sam Halen standards) tracks for the second greatest hits album in under a decade.

But after 2000, 'Van Halen' to me seemed less of a band than a brand, anyway, and that was true even after Dave rejoined.

Hell. I enjoyed Eat Em and Smile. Skyscraper was good too. It was great to see Dave climbing mountains and going crazy on stage while Van Hagar did the 5150 walk like they all had a stick up their ass.

[Terry]

I will give Janie Ed’s second wife credit for turning him around. He got something from her he wasn’t getting from the others. The man was really happy finally and you could see it. He was having the time of his life the last time I saw him play.

It feels true enough that both Wolfgang and Janie were very supportive. In the end, doubtless it came down to Ed turning it around for himself in terms of holding onto his sobriety, which I'm assuming he did. But, yeah, when I saw him in 2012 he was grinning throughout the show and hitting all the classic licks and executing his parts with precision. Which is all I really wanted to see and hear. It's one thing to chide Van Halen here online for the trainwreck they were at points in the 2000s, but it wasn't fun at all in 2008 to pay decent money and watch Ed unable to perform well.

[Terry]

Hell. I enjoyed Eat Em and Smile. Skyscraper was good too. It was great to see Dave climbing mountains and going crazy on stage while Van Hagar did the 5150 walk like they all had a stick up their ass.

Oh, to be sure. I enjoyed EEAS. Skyscraper a bit less. I liked ALAE. YFLM had a few good tracks on it.

On a personal level, even though I found Dave's solo output from 1985-1993 uneven, on the whole I enjoyed it far more than what Van Halen did from 1986-1995...very little of which I enjoyed, and what I did enjoy tended to be restricted to what Eddie was doing. Even with Hagar in the band, Eddie still managed to come up with a couple of things I liked from a guitar standpoint on each Van Hagar album.

None of which is to say that Van Halen with Hagar didn't have a pretty good degree of commercial success. While they didn't sell as many albums as they did with Dave, it'd be disingenuous to claim - whatever my personal taste - that Van Halen with Hagar was a flop strictly in commercial terms.

[ZahZoo]

The guys at DLR Cast cover this insider deal and some other great stuff...

https://thedlrcast.podbean.com/?action=openPodcast&podcastId=pbblog8954859&podcastIdTag=ehqdp

[FORD]

Mitch Malloy was in Great White?? I thought Great White didn't exist without their Robert Plant wannabe singer? And I can't even remember that guy's name, so that tells you how memorable he was. They really should have given up after the fire.

[FORD]

As far as the question of Al's involvement in the VH songwriting..... these guys seem to think Al is the one who helped Eddie "shape" the riffs into songs. Al may have had a part in that, but he clearly didn't do it on his own, or else the songs on VDIII wouldn't have been such a fucking mess. Van HALEN songs & Van Hagar songs were "shaped" somewhat differently, which obviously means Dave & played a major part in that "shaping".

[FORD]

The Beavis & Butthead clip referenced in the episode......

[FORD]

"Paradise sucks! Huh huh huh huh"