Dems In Disarray

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  • Warham
    DIAMOND STATUS
    • Mar 2004
    • 14589

    Dems In Disarray

    BY JAMES TARANTO
    Tuesday, December 6, 2005 3:26 p.m. EST

    Dems in Disarray
    The Chicago Tribune brings a useful reality check on the politics of Iraq:

    Sen. Barack Obama said Monday that the Democratic Party was unlikely to reconcile its differences and reach a unified strategy for Iraq, conceding: "The politics and the policy of this may not match perfectly."

    As Democrats work to win control of Congress in the 2006 elections, Obama (D-Ill.) said a cacophony of views over the Iraq war threatens to divide the party once again.

    "It is arguable that the best politics going into '06 would be a clear succinct message: 'Let's bring our troops home,' " Obama said. "It's certainly easier to communicate and I think would probably have some pretty strong resonance with the American people right now, but whether that's the best policy right now, I don't feel comfortable saying it is."

    On the other hand, San Antonio's WOAI-AM reports that party chairman Howard Dean is embracing defeat:

    Saying the "idea that we're going to win the war in Iraq is an idea which is just plain wrong," Democratic National Chairman Howard Dean predicted today that the Democratic Party will come together on a proposal to withdraw National Guard and Reserve troops immediately, and all US forces within two years. . . .

    "I've seen this before in my life. This is the same situation we had in Vietnam. Everybody then kept saying, 'just another year, just stay the course, we'll have a victory.' Well, we didn't have a victory, and this policy cost the lives of an additional 25,000 troops because we were too stubborn to recognize what was happening."

    An e-mail from John Kerry's* "campaign" that popped into our e-mailbox this morning struck a decidedly different tone. It declared, "Each move they make we'll meet head on. We'll act quickly, decisively, and we won't yield an inch." Needless to say, Kerry referred not to America's enemies but to Republican fund-raising efforts.

    It's important to keep in mind what is behind all the talk about Vietnam. The outcome of that war was a defeat for America, but it was a triumph for those who wanted America to withdraw. It was bad for the Democratic Party, which has lost elections far more often than not since splintering over the war in 1968, but it was a triumph for those Democrats who advocate a form of isolationism based on the premise that America is morally tainted. Those folks are still around, as New York's Daily News reports:

    Anti-war activists furious with Sen. Hillary Clinton are vowing to bird-dog her everywhere she goes, starting with a swanky Manhattan fund-raiser tonight.

    Clinton's letter last week clarifying her position on Iraq--which included rejecting a timetable for withdrawal--fanned the anger of some war opponents, who decided to launch a campaign against New York's junior senator.

    "We're calling it Bird-Dog Hillary," said Medea Benjamin of the peace group Codepink.

    The left-wing isolationists reached their apogee with the nomination of George McGovern in 1972, the same year the Democratic Party, at the presidential level, reached its nadir. Since then, they have won elections only when foreign policy receded as an issue: after the withdrawal from Vietnam (1976) and after the Cold War was won (1992 and 1996). Democrats, in short, thrive on the illusion of peace. That's why they're increasingly rooting openly for defeat in Iraq: They hope that a relatively quiet few years will follow, which would be good for their short-term political fortunes.

    Presumably the reality of peace would suit Democratic interests as well as the illusion. That is, as with the Cold War, a clear victory would help the Democrats politically by neutralizing the issue of their foreign-policy fecklessness. Too bad the party's small but noisy anti-American base makes it untenable for the party's pols to take an unambiguously pro-American position.

    * The haughty, French-looking Massachusetts Democrat, who by the way alleges that U.S. troops are "terrorizing kids and children" in Iraq. But he supports the troops!

  • Nickdfresh
    SUPER MODERATOR

    • Oct 2004
    • 49567

    #2
    You missed this great op-ed piece.

    Comment

    • LoungeMachine
      DIAMOND STATUS
      • Jul 2004
      • 32576

      #3
      So it's open season on slanted op-ed pieces now!!!


      Oh boy, Oh boy, Oh boy.
      Originally posted by Kristy
      Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
      Originally posted by cadaverdog
      I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

      Comment

      • Warham
        DIAMOND STATUS
        • Mar 2004
        • 14589

        #4
        How's the party faithful supposed to decide who to follow when every member of the elected Democrats are going in a different direction on the war?

        Comment

        • Nickdfresh
          SUPER MODERATOR

          • Oct 2004
          • 49567

          #5
          Originally posted by Warham
          How's the party faithful supposed to decide who to follow when every member of the elected Democrats are going in a different direction on the war?
          Sort of like the Republican party.

          Comment

          • Warham
            DIAMOND STATUS
            • Mar 2004
            • 14589

            #6
            OK, so who's the Republican version of Howard Dean?

            Comment

            • Nickdfresh
              SUPER MODERATOR

              • Oct 2004
              • 49567

              #7
              Originally posted by Warham
              OK, so who's the Republican version of Howard Dean?
              I don't know what you mean by that...

              But one Republican (who invented the term Freedom Fries BTW) has been advocating that the US "declare victory, and bring the troops home" for some time now.

              And even those for this quagmire, er, War, how can they be happy how it's being run?

              How Walter Jones Grew a Conscience

              By Jan Frel, AlterNet. Posted June 22, 2005.

              After some soul-searching about the war in Iraq, the North Carolina congressman made one of the most staggering political about-faces seen in Washington since George W. Bush took office.
              Walter Jones Conscience
              Rep. Walter Jones with Marines stationed at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina.

              In the heady atmosphere of war lust and post-9/11 New Patriotism that subsumed Washington in March 2003, GOP House Representative of North Carolina Walter B. Jones made a stand. Jones told the press that he hoped his effort to rename French fries, "Freedom Fries," in the House cafeterias would prompt visitors "to think of the thousands of military members overseas who are there for you, for me, and for the freedom of millions of people they never know personally."

              It was the high-water mark in the Campaign to Hate France, a key splinter project of the Let's Get Iraq effort.

              Two years later, Rep. Jones told North Carolina's big daily, the Raleigh News & Observer, that he wished the Freedom Fries incident "had never happened" and that Congress "must be told the truth" about the Iraq war.

              Soon after, Jones stood with two of the most liberal Democratic representatives in Congress -- Dennis Kucinich and Neil Abercrombie -- and the Republican isolationist and libertarian Ron Paul to introduce legislation calling for the president to announce a withdrawal timetable by the end of this year. In other words, Walter Jones made one of the most staggering about-faces seen in Washington since George W. Bush took office.

              What happened?

              Mainstream newspapers and cable television's take on Jones' declaration so far has not gone much deeper than a kind of mild bewilderment. The surface-level political analysis on Jones that has made the progressive rounds goes something like this: shrewd, canny Republican realizes that calling for Iraq pullout is means of political survival in upcoming tumultuous 2006 elections, gets headstart against primary challengers. That analysis applies to the new posture Republican Senator Chuck Hagel struck, when he said a few days ago that the United States was "losing" in Iraq. Hagel intends to run for president and wants to distinguish himself from the pack.

              But if re-election was the motivating principle behind Walter Jones' change of heart, you'd expect to find that his district -- North Carolina's 3rd -- was a swing district that narrowly went for Bush in November; that it was at the vanguard of dropping public opinion on Iraq; and that the county chairs, party activists and local residents had all been pressuring him to make a stand and call for withdrawal of the troops.

              Nothing of the sort.

              Jones' district is one of the most militarized in the country, if not the most. Sixty thousand veterans live in the 17 counties that make up his constituency, which on average voted at a mid-60s percentage level for Bush last November. There are three Marine bases that house thousands of active servicemen and their families; about 43,000 military and 5,000 civilians at Camp Lejeune in Onslow County; Cherry Point, the world's largest Marine Corp air station and Craven County's largest employer, which pumps $500 million annually into the economy; and Seymour Johnson Air Force Base which employs around 4,000 military and 500 civilians in Wayne County.

              You can't be pro-military spending or patriotic enough for a congressional district like this. So no surprise then, that Walter Jones has a spot on the House Armed Services Committee or that he waded neck-deep in the propaganda effort to go to war in Iraq. Beside his Freedom Fries stunt, Jones has brilliantly shepherded his three garrisons out of Rumsfeld's massive base closure plans, presented to Congress this year.

              Until recently, Jones was well-liked and respected by local Republican officials. The Republican county chairs I spoke with in his district told me they were caught flat-footed by his transformation. Steve Tyson, chair of Craven County (home of Cherry Point), told me he thought "it was more surprise than anything else for residents," whose reaction was this made him look "weak" on the military.

              Bob Pruett, chair of neighboring Carteret County, and a 25-year veteran of the Marine Corps, said he was overwhelmed by the number of people who called him after Jones made his remarks. He said the general reaction wasn't that Jones called for the withdrawal of troops -- "which all of us of course want as soon as possible" -- but that it "sent the wrong message to the enemy" and worried veterans there might be a return to the Vietnam situation. "Some veterans were incensed," he said.

              Marty Orgonis, the Republican chair of Onslow County -- which hosts Camp Lejeune -- said that no one in the local party's 57-person committee wanted a vendetta with Jones, but they felt on the whole that his judgment was "misguided and premature." One of Onslow County's commissioners last week went on local television and fumed, calling for Jones to resign. He later withdrew the request. Orgonis told me that if Jones continued down the track he'd taken, things "could get out of hand."

              Johnny Rouse, the Democratic chair of Pitt County -- which gave Kerry the closest margin over Bush in last November, 53-47 -- said the local reaction of Republican officials and area residents was more about supporting the president in a time of war. Rouse, himself a veteran, said while about half the residents of his county were against the war, the issue "goes beyond politics in a way. Everyone here believes that the duty of a congressman is to support the president in a time of war, and that's what the troops need to hear."

              This was the consensus of every political official I spoke to, and the substance of remarks from troops quoted in local media reports in the aftermath of Jones' statements.

              So if it wasn't local political pressure, what made Jones change his mind about the war?

              For most of us, Iraq is at worst an unpleasant reality TV show. Even for most politicians in Washington, it's a problem they've so far been able to throw public funds at with the hope it will go away or improve, muttering out the sides of their mouths in public about the "lack of progress," and in private, despairing like the rest of us.

              But it's become too much for Jones. Iraq has subsumed Jones' political and private life on the Hill and in his district, a consequence of the ubiquitous military presence there. Perhaps more than any other politician in Washington, Jones has witnessed exactly what the Iraq policy he helped shape has done to the lives of the people he's supposed to represent.

              A congressional staffer who works closely with Walter Jones' office right now told me that Jones changed his mind about Iraq after some "difficult soul searching," and that the "growing gap" between the truth about Iraq that plays out in his district and the Republican party line he's supposed to toe in committee hearings has taken a "terrible toll on him." When I asked Jones' press secretary what led to the shift, she told me it was a combination of "the top-secret briefings, researching the issues, and talking to families."

              In every single direction, Iraq is staring at Walter Jones in the face, and it's turned him into an emotional wreck. Jones hangs photographs of the fallen soldiers from his district at the entrance to his congressional offices, and their eyes meet his every time he enters the offices. More than 100 Marines from Camp Lejeune have lost their lives; Jones has written letters to the 1,300 family members who survive them. Mix in the closed-door sessions he attends with generals and intelligence experts telling him every single thing is going wrong, the despair of wives and children on the bases who have seen tours of duty extended, and the disquiet, misery and injuries of the returned combat veterans. Jones still talks about the funeral he attended two years ago of Sgt. Michael Bitz, who never saw the birth of his twin sons.

              The Raleigh News and Observer article that broke the story in May about Jones' switch on Iraq also reveals that he "is quicker to tears than to laughter" and that he's been trying to build a memorial to the dogs that have helped U.S. servicemen in war:

              He flips through a book dog handlers gave him, leafing past stylized drawings of animals leading their masters through danger. He starts to read, then catches himself. "I better not read this now," he says. "I never get through it without crying."

              It isn't just the book about war dogs, it's anything at all. This isn't about politics; it's personal, and utterly emotional. Walter Jones can't lie about Iraq anymore. He's worked in the beating heart of this rotten American war effort for almost three years, and he's complicit in all of it. It's enough to make a congressman cry.

              Jan Frel has worked as an editor for AlterNet and TomPaine.com, and occasionally posts entries on MyDD.

              Comment

              • Wayne L.

                #8
                Democrats are in disarray because they have a lunatic party chairman named Howard Dean who probably blew their chances in 06 & 08 with his MISGUIDED political rhetoric but they never learn from past elections.

                Comment

                • ashstralia
                  ROTH ARMY ELITE
                  • Feb 2004
                  • 6566

                  #9
                  yaaaay!!! wayne's back!!

                  i missed you, wayne.
                  how's that foot thing going?

                  Comment

                  • Wayne L.

                    #10
                    How is IT going for you ashtralia?

                    Comment

                    • ashstralia
                      ROTH ARMY ELITE
                      • Feb 2004
                      • 6566

                      #11
                      ooops! sorry. back on topic in




                      3













                      2














                      1.....\M/

                      Comment

                      • ashstralia
                        ROTH ARMY ELITE
                        • Feb 2004
                        • 6566

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Wayne L.
                        How is IT going for you ashtralia?
                        all's good, mate.
                        we're heading into summer!!!!

                        Comment

                        • FORD
                          ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                          • Jan 2004
                          • 59648

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Warham
                          OK, so who's the Republican version of Howard Dean?
                          In the current Republican party?

                          NOBODY

                          But if you're looking for a Republican against the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq, how about Poppy Bush?
                          Eat Us And Smile

                          Cenk For America 2024!!

                          Justice Democrats


                          "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                          Comment

                          • Warham
                            DIAMOND STATUS
                            • Mar 2004
                            • 14589

                            #14
                            Bring me a quote where he says we shouldn't have went in, and maybe I'll agree with you.

                            Comment

                            • LoungeMachine
                              DIAMOND STATUS
                              • Jul 2004
                              • 32576

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Warham
                              Bring me a quote where he says we shouldn't have went in, and maybe I'll agree with you.
                              Are you kidding???


                              HE PUT IT IN HIS FUCKING BOOK

                              paraphrasing = " being an occupying force in Baghdad would be a major mistake, and leave us in a quagmire for years"

                              I'm sure FORD / Turk will post the exact quote.
                              Originally posted by Kristy
                              Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
                              Originally posted by cadaverdog
                              I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

                              Comment

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