Guess the Germans Didn't Learn Their Lesson

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  • Lqskdiver
    Sniper
    • Jun 2004
    • 763

    Guess the Germans Didn't Learn Their Lesson

    Time Garbage


    Friday, Nov. 10, 2006
    Exclusive: Charges Sought Against Rumsfeld Over Prison Abuse
    A lawsuit in Germany will seek a criminal prosecution of the outgoing Defense Secretary and other U.S. officials for their alleged role in abuses at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo
    By ADAM ZAGORIN

    Just days after his resignation, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is about to face more repercussions for his involvement in the troubled wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. New legal documents, to be filed next week with Germany's top prosecutor, will seek a criminal investigation and prosecution of Rumsfeld, along with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, former CIA director George Tenet and other senior U.S. civilian and military officers, for their alleged roles in abuses committed at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison and at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

    The plaintiffs in the case include 11 Iraqis who were prisoners at Abu Ghraib, as well as Mohammad al-Qahtani, a Saudi held at Guantanamo, whom the U.S. has identified as the so-called "20th hijacker" and a would-be participant in the 9/11 hijackings. As TIME first reported in June 2005, Qahtani underwent a "special interrogation plan," personally approved by Rumsfeld, which the U.S. says produced valuable intelligence. But to obtain it, according to the log of his interrogation and government reports, Qahtani was subjected to forced nudity, sexual humiliation, religious humiliation, prolonged stress positions, sleep deprivation and other controversial interrogation techniques.

    Lawyers for the plaintiffs say that one of the witnesses who will testify on their behalf is former Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, the one-time commander of all U.S. military prisons in Iraq. Karpinski — who the lawyers say will be in Germany next week to publicly address her accusations in the case — has issued a written statement to accompany the legal filing, which says, in part: "It was clear the knowledge and responsibility [for what happened at Abu Ghraib] goes all the way to the top of the chain of command to the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld ."

    A spokesperson for the Pentagon told TIME there would be no comment since the case has not yet been filed.

    Along with Rumsfeld, Gonzales and Tenet, the other defendants in the case are Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence Stephen Cambone; former assistant attorney general Jay Bybee; former deputy assisant attorney general John Yoo; General Counsel for the Department of Defense William James Haynes II; and David S. Addington, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff. Senior military officers named in the filing are General Ricardo Sanchez, the former top Army official in Iraq; Gen. Geoffrey Miller, the former commander of Guantanamo; senior Iraq commander, Major General Walter Wojdakowski; and Col. Thomas Pappas, the one-time head of military intelligence at Abu Ghraib.

    Germany was chosen for the court filing because German law provides "universal jurisdiction" allowing for the prosecution of war crimes and related offenses that take place anywhere in the world. Indeed, a similar, but narrower, legal action was brought in Germany in 2004, which also sought the prosecution of Rumsfeld. The case provoked an angry response from Pentagon, and Rumsfeld himself was reportedly upset. Rumsfeld's spokesman at the time, Lawrence DiRita, called the case a "a big, big problem." U.S. officials made clear the case could adversely impact U.S.-Germany relations, and Rumsfeld indicated he would not attend a major security conference in Munich, where he was scheduled to be the keynote speaker, unless Germany disposed of the case. The day before the conference, a German prosecutor announced he would not pursue the matter, saying there was no indication that U.S. authorities and courts would not deal with allegations in the complaint.

    In bringing the new case, however, the plaintiffs argue that circumstances have changed in two important ways. Rumsfeld's resignation, they say, means that the former Defense Secretary will lose the legal immunity usually accorded high government officials. Moreover, the plaintiffs argue that the German prosecutor's reasoning for rejecting the previous case — that U.S. authorities were dealing with the issue — has been proven wrong.

    "The utter and complete failure of U.S. authorities to take any action to investigate high-level involvement in the torture program could not be clearer," says Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights, a U.S.-based non-profit helping to bring the legal action in Germany. He also notes that the Military Commissions Act, a law passed by Congress earlier this year, effectively blocks prosecution in the U.S. of those involved in detention and interrogation abuses of foreigners held abroad in American custody going to back to Sept. 11, 2001. As a result, Ratner contends, the legal arguments underlying the German prosecutor's previous inaction no longer hold up.

    Whatever the legal merits of the case, it is the latest example of efforts in Western Europe by critics of U.S. tactics in the war on terror to call those involved to account in court. In Germany, investigations are underway in parliament concerning cooperation between the CIA and German intelligence on rendition — the kidnapping of suspected terrorists and their removal to third countries for interrogation. Other legal inquiries involving rendition are underway in both Italy and Spain.

    U.S. officials have long feared that legal proceedings against "war criminals" could be used to settle political scores. In 1998, for example, former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet — whose military coup was supported by the Nixon administration — was arrested in the U.K. and held for 16 months in an extradition battle led by a Spanish magistrate seeking to charge him with war crimes. He was ultimately released and returned to Chile. More recently, a Belgian court tried to bring charges against then Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon for alleged crimes against Palestinians.

    For its part, the Bush administration has rejected adherence to the International Criminal Court (ICC) on grounds that it could be used to unjustly prosecute U.S. officials. The ICC is the first permanent tribunal established to prosecute war crimes, genocide and other crimes against humanity.
  • LoungeMachine
    DIAMOND STATUS
    • Jul 2004
    • 32576

    #2
    Sure hope he isn't tortured.....
    Originally posted by Kristy
    Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
    Originally posted by cadaverdog
    I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

    Comment

    • Nickdfresh
      SUPER MODERATOR

      • Oct 2004
      • 49219

      #3
      Bump!

      Why does this guy want to "####" "Time magazine?" :confused:

      Comment

      • ODShowtime
        ROCKSTAR

        • Jun 2004
        • 5812

        #4
        germany can still suck the US's balls no matter how scummy rummy is.

        They're right about one thing though, we SHOULD be doing something about his crimes. He's criminally negligent if nothing else.
        gnaw on it

        Comment

        • DavidLeeNatra
          TOASTMASTER GENERAL
          • Jan 2004
          • 10715

          #5
          Originally posted by ODShowtime
          germany can still suck the US's balls no matter how scummy rummy is.

          They're right about one thing though, we SHOULD be doing something about his crimes. He's criminally negligent if nothing else.
          suck balls? thank god we learned something from the past and kept our asses out of iraq...

          the US break every human right...they should invade themselfes...
          Roth Army Icon
          First official owner of ADKOT (Deluxe Version)

          Comment

          • LoungeMachine
            DIAMOND STATUS
            • Jul 2004
            • 32576

            #6
            Originally posted by DavidLeeNatra
            suck balls? thank god we learned something from the past and kept our asses out of iraq...

            the US break every human right...they should invade themselfes...

            Exactly.


            We pretend to hold the world's High Moral Standards, and yet invade sovereign nations, torture humans, and weild the world's largest cache of WMD.

            Yeah, we're the good guys these days

            The Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld Regime will go down in history as one of the most reviled of the 21st Century.




            As much as I'm proud of most of our US history, [slavery and native genocide notwithstanding] and ALL of our armed services, I'm personally, and deeply ashamed of our president and his cohorts.
            Originally posted by Kristy
            Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
            Originally posted by cadaverdog
            I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

            Comment

            • DEMON CUNT
              Crazy Ass Mofo
              • Nov 2004
              • 3242

              #7
              Guess the Germans Didn't Learn Their Lesson? What the fuck?

              This thread should be called "I Guess the Americans Didn't Learn The Lesson That Germany Did."

              I hope Rummy goes down hard. I am ashamed of all the death and destruction this man has caused in the name of America.
              Banned 01/09/09 | Avatar | Aiken | Spammy | Extreme | Pump | Regular | The View | Toot

              Comment

              • DavidLeeNatra
                TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                • Jan 2004
                • 10715

                #8
                wow...I made a political statement and nobody called me a "nazi" or yelled "SIEG HEIL" or "PANZER MARSCH", yet...

                I have been to afghanistan and I have seen hundreds and hundreds of detroyed russian tanks in the desert...you simply CAN'T win over there...same with the iraq...
                Roth Army Icon
                First official owner of ADKOT (Deluxe Version)

                Comment

                • DavidLeeNatra
                  TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 10715

                  #9
                  some pics of our visit:





                  Roth Army Icon
                  First official owner of ADKOT (Deluxe Version)

                  Comment

                  • FORD
                    ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                    • Jan 2004
                    • 58828

                    #10
                    I hope every last member of the BCE is made to pay for their war crimes eventually.
                    Eat Us And Smile

                    Cenk For America 2024!!

                    Justice Democrats


                    "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                    Comment

                    • LoungeMachine
                      DIAMOND STATUS
                      • Jul 2004
                      • 32576

                      #11
                      Originally posted by FORD
                      I hope every last member of the BCE is made to pay for their war crimes eventually.

                      Preferably on this earth.



                      first
                      Originally posted by Kristy
                      Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
                      Originally posted by cadaverdog
                      I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

                      Comment

                      • Nitro Express
                        DIAMOND STATUS
                        • Aug 2004
                        • 32798

                        #12
                        Originally posted by DavidLeeNatra
                        suck balls? thank god we learned something from the past and kept our asses out of iraq...

                        the US break every human right...they should invade themselfes...
                        The Bush Administration invaded themselves, they stuck their heads straight up their asses.
                        No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                        Comment

                        • Hardrock69
                          DIAMOND STATUS
                          • Feb 2005
                          • 21888

                          #13
                          They need to pay for their crimes.

                          Period.

                          ALL of them.

                          Comment

                          • Nickdfresh
                            SUPER MODERATOR

                            • Oct 2004
                            • 49219

                            #14
                            Rummy should be tried for criminal negligence and manslaughter...

                            Comment

                            • Nickdfresh
                              SUPER MODERATOR

                              • Oct 2004
                              • 49219

                              #15
                              And BTW, how is it Time's fault? What did they do dummycon?

                              Comment

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