Here Come The Republican Bailouts Again

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • LoungeMachine
    DIAMOND STATUS
    • Jul 2004
    • 32576

    Here Come The Republican Bailouts Again

    Your source for Minnesota news today. Read articles, view photos or watch videos about news in Minneapolis, St. Paul, Duluth, St. Cloud, Rochester, and beyond.


    Paul Krugman: Here come the bailouts

    Feds are worried that bank failures could end up pulling the entire economy into ruin.

    By Paul Krugman

    Last update: March 17, 2008 - 5:58 PM


    O.K., here it comes: The unthinkable is about to become the inevitable.

    Last week, Robert Rubin, the former Treasury secretary, and John Lipsky, a top official at the International Monetary Fund, both suggested that public funds might be needed to rescue the U.S. financial system. Lipsky insisted that he wasn't talking about a bailout. But he was.

    It's true that Henry Paulson, the current Treasury secretary, still says that any proposal to use taxpayers' money to help resolve the crisis is a "non-starter." But that's about as credible as all of his previous pronouncements on the financial situation.

    So here's the question we really should be asking: When the feds do bail out the financial system, what will they do to ensure that they aren't also bailing out the people who got us into this mess?

    Let's talk about why a bailout is inevitable.

    Between 2002 and 2007, false beliefs in the private sector -- the belief that home prices only go up, that financial innovation had made risk go away, that a triple-A rating really meant that an investment was safe -- led to an epidemic of bad lending. Meanwhile, false beliefs in the political arena -- the belief of Alan Greenspan and his friends in the Bush administration that the market is always right and regulation always a bad thing -- led Washington to ignore the warning signs.

    By the way, Greenspan is still at it: accepting no blame, he continues to insist that "market flexibility and open competition" are the "most reliable safeguards against cumulative economic failure."

    The result of all that bad lending was an unholy financial mess that will cause trillions of dollars in losses. A large chunk of these losses will fall on financial institutions: commercial banks, investment banks, hedge funds and so on.

    Many people say that the government should let the chips fall where they may -- that those who made bad loans should simply be left to suffer the consequences. But it's not going to happen. When push comes to shove, financial officials -- rightly -- aren't willing to run the risk that losses on bad loans will cripple the financial system and take the real economy down with it.

    Consider what happened last Friday, when the Federal Reserve rushed to the aid of Bear Stearns.

    Nobody expects an investment bank to be a charitable institution, but Bear has a particularly nasty reputation. As Gretchen Morgenson of the New York Times reminds us, Bear "has often operated in the gray areas of Wall Street and with an aggressive, brass-knuckles approach."

    Bear was a major promoter of the most questionable subprime lenders. It lured customers into two of its own hedge funds that were among the first to go bust in the current crisis. And it's a bad financial citizen: the last time the Fed tried to contain a financial crisis, after the collapse of Long-Term Capital Management in 1998, Bear refused to participate in the rescue operation.

    Bear, in other words, deserved to be allowed to fail -- both on the merits and to teach Wall Street not to expect someone else to clean up its messes.

    But the Fed rode to Bear's rescue anyway, fearing that the collapse of a major investment bank would cause panic in the markets and wreak havoc with the wider economy. Fed officials knew that they were doing a bad thing, but believed that the alternative would be even worse.

    As Bear goes, so will go the rest of the financial system. And if history is any guide, the coming taxpayer-financed bailout will end up costing a lot of money.

    The U.S. savings and loan crisis of the 1980s ended up costing taxpayers 3.2 percent of G.D.P., the equivalent of $450 billion today. Some estimates put the fiscal cost of Japan's post-bubble cleanup at more than 20 percent of G.D.P. -- the equivalent of $3 trillion for the United States.

    If these numbers shock you, they should. But the big bailout is coming. The only question is how well it will be managed.

    As I said, the important thing is to bail out the system, not the people who got us into this mess. That means cleaning out the shareholders in failed institutions, making bondholders take a haircut, and canceling the stock options of executives who got rich playing heads I win, tails you lose.

    On Sunday, news broke that JPMorgan Chase will buy Bear for a pittance. That's an O.K. resolution for this case -- but not a model for the much bigger bailout to come. Looking ahead, we probably need something similar to the Resolution Trust Corporation, which took over bankrupt savings and loan institutions and sold off their assets to reimburse taxpayers. And we need it quickly: things are falling apart as you read this.



    Originally posted by Kristy
    Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
    Originally posted by cadaverdog
    I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?
  • blonddgirl777
    ROCKSTAR

    • Mar 2005
    • 5805

    #2
    When the Chimp. got elected the first time, the "Toronto Globe and Mail" had his chimpy face on the cover with 2 words;
    "WAR"
    and
    "BANCRUPTCY"

    The only question was; "When?"...


    It will be terribly hard for the next party elected, to pick up that mess...
    That is IF, the next party actually wants to pick it up!
    http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...oman-movie.jpg
    Originally posted by Nitro Express
    ... What erases the linger of horniness more than Al Quaida? Then blondegirl can post some new hot dudes and stir a new wave of horniness...
    Originally posted by Jérôme Frenchise
    [B]... Cooking, I mean Cooking, is men's field...
    http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...i_triangle.jpg
    Originally posted by VanHalener
    ... Fight the Good Fight and Win!...
    Originally posted by FORD
    ... And let's face it, if mothers (except Chelsea Clinton's) ruled this world, there would be no goddamned war in the first place...

    Comment

    • Matt White
      • Jun 2004
      • 20569

      #3
      DE-REGULATE BANKING

      When has ANYTHING been de-regulated that the AMERICAN tax payer hasn't had to bend over and grab his ankles?

      Comment

      • Deklon
        Roadie
        • Jul 2007
        • 103

        #4
        People actually still read Paul Krugman? He's been predicting an impending devastatig recession for 7 years. Since recessions happen (for a reason) about every ten years, he may be right this time. Genius!

        It's funny how his column rips the gov't for a bailout like this, but then says. "...fearing that the collapse of a major investment bank would cause panic in the markets and wreak havoc with the wider economy. Fed officials knew that they were doing a bad thing, but believed that the alternative would be even worse."

        Paul Krugman, come on now/

        Comment

        • kwame k
          TOASTMASTER GENERAL
          • Feb 2008
          • 11302

          #5
          I’m glad you've made a reference to the S&L scandal of the 80’s.

          McCain’s involvement in the S&L scandal, remember The Keaton 5?


          Neil Bush’s Silverado Savings and Loan fiasco and the culpability of Jeb Bush and George Bush Sr in little Neil’s ventures.



          You know what’s funny is basically the same home lending practices in the S&L meltdown are similar to the current Sub-prime meltdown.

          We’ve been getting fucked by the same people, the same way for so long I just wish they would try another “position” just for the sake of variety.
          Last edited by kwame k; 03-17-2008, 10:09 PM.
          Originally posted by vandeleur
          E- Jesus . Playing both sides because he didnt understand the argument in the first place :D

          Comment

          • ULTRAMAN VH
            Commando
            • May 2004
            • 1480

            #6
            Nice opinion missive, Lounge. Guess its okay to post far left libby op-eds. We need some fair minded moderators on this site. Anything with a Conservative view point gets dumped or edited by you and Ford. The two of you need to be demoted. If that is not possible, then The Frontline should be renamed The Far Left Gazzette.

            Comment

            • LoungeMachine
              DIAMOND STATUS
              • Jul 2004
              • 32576

              #7
              LMMFAO

              Poor baby...

              For starters, Genius... FORD hasn't been a mod in this forum for over a YEAR. You really are clueless, you know that?

              Second, I ALWAYS end up posting in, and discussing my threads, op/ed or not. You on the other hand love to post and run.

              Unfortunately, Kwame stole my thunder, as I too was going to bring up the S and L debacle that Reagen brought us, and that Neil BUSH and John MCCAIN were involved in.


              At some point, you're just going to HAVE to come to grips with the fact that as much as you love to throw around terms like "Spendocrats" here.... IT'S YOUR OWN REPUBLICAN PARTY that has fucked us over with regards to the economy time and time again...

              Here's a thought... instead of whining about me again, let's hear YOUR defense of this bailout?

              Originally posted by Kristy
              Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
              Originally posted by cadaverdog
              I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

              Comment

              • kwame k
                TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                • Feb 2008
                • 11302

                #8
                Sorry for stealing your thunder, Lounge.

                Calling all Conservatives:
                What I don’t understand is how you feel bailing out Bears Stern and thousands of employees losing their jobs as a good thing.

                Are you just sucking on the teat of information provided by Rush Limbaugh or other far right opinion TV/Talk shows for your spoon feed information?

                When the government spends Millions/Billions of dollars to bail out the greedy CEO’s and decision makers who ruined Bear Stearns but will never probably face indictment or culpability for their actions. You feel “they’re nice guys who just made a mistake” let them keep Millions in salary, give them a bonus and send them on their merry way.

                Let’s look at the Human factor shall we, since The Re-Pubic-cans are Compassionate Conservatives.
                Let’s see what happens to people “who did nothing more than show up to work on a Monday Morning”.

                “On Monday, CNBC television news, citing unnamed sources, reported that JPMorgan Chase, which agreed on Sunday to buy Bear for $240 million, expected to cut about half of Bear's 14,000 employees.
                Like other Americans, some of them would face a parched jobscape as the U.S. economy weakens and the cost of living rises. The U.S. unemployment rate in February was 4.8 percent and payrolls fell by 63,000, the second straight month of payrolls decline.”




                Now to be Fair and Balanced let’s see what’s happened to some of Bears Ex’s or “Breaking up is hard to do”:
                Mr. Spector:

                “Bear Stearns Cos on Wednesday disclosed that former co-President Warren Spector, who resigned under pressure in August, will walk away with more than $23 million in capital accumulation plan awards but will not receive a severance package.
                The value of his unvested CAP units and stock options were worth $45 million in March, according to the company's annual proxy.”


                What a bitch no severance package! I wonder how much he’ll get on unemployment.

                James Cayne:

                “NEW YORK (Reuters) - Bear Stearns Cos Inc. leader James Cayne, under fire for the collapse of two hedge funds, will step down as chief executive and hand that role to the company's star investment banker, Alan Schwartz, the company said on Tuesday.
                Cayne will remain as chairman of the fifth largest U.S. investment bank, which suffered its first loss ever in the fourth quarter because of subprime mortgages.”


                Well he’ll probably have to change offices and titles now. Life’s a bitch for Jimmy Boy.

                “James E. Cayne, Bear Stearns’s former chief executive and one of its largest individual shareholders, will most likely walk away with a little more than $13.4 million, the value of his Bear stock holdings, according to James F. Redda & Associates. Those would have been worth $1.2 billion in January 2007, when Bear’s stock was trading at a $171.51. Mr. Cayne has taken home more than $232 million in salary, bonus and other pay between 1993 and 2006, the time period for which there is publicly available data, according to Equilar, an as an executive compensation research firm.”
                Professional rich asshole: Nice work if you can get it. Nothing like corporate welfare. After getting a $30 billion federal bailout (Billi...


                Remember Jimmy Boy is still The Chairman but you know my heart goes out to the guy. Only $13.4 million! I guess these CEO’s are learning that Corporate Powerbrokers are not going to reward bad performances any more.

                You leftie liberal Lounge how dare you post an article like that!
                Originally posted by vandeleur
                E- Jesus . Playing both sides because he didnt understand the argument in the first place :D

                Comment

                • blonddgirl777
                  ROCKSTAR

                  • Mar 2005
                  • 5805

                  #9
                  Originally posted by LoungeMachine
                  ... let's hear YOUR defense of this bailout?...
                  ... Waiting...
                  http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...oman-movie.jpg
                  Originally posted by Nitro Express
                  ... What erases the linger of horniness more than Al Quaida? Then blondegirl can post some new hot dudes and stir a new wave of horniness...
                  Originally posted by Jérôme Frenchise
                  [B]... Cooking, I mean Cooking, is men's field...
                  http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...i_triangle.jpg
                  Originally posted by VanHalener
                  ... Fight the Good Fight and Win!...
                  Originally posted by FORD
                  ... And let's face it, if mothers (except Chelsea Clinton's) ruled this world, there would be no goddamned war in the first place...

                  Comment

                  • blonddgirl777
                    ROCKSTAR

                    • Mar 2005
                    • 5805

                    #10
                    Originally posted by ULTRAMAN VH
                    ... Conservative view point...


                    ... The Frontline should be renamed The Far Left Gazzette.

                    "Conservative"?
                    The Republican party is behond conservative...
                    "Destructive" is more like it!


                    And what do you expect from a political forum at a David Lee Roth site?
                    Although I am not for editing or any other kinds of censorship, I think that if you want to chit-chat with some Busheeps, you will have to join the "Rush Limbaugh Army"!
                    http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...oman-movie.jpg
                    Originally posted by Nitro Express
                    ... What erases the linger of horniness more than Al Quaida? Then blondegirl can post some new hot dudes and stir a new wave of horniness...
                    Originally posted by Jérôme Frenchise
                    [B]... Cooking, I mean Cooking, is men's field...
                    http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...i_triangle.jpg
                    Originally posted by VanHalener
                    ... Fight the Good Fight and Win!...
                    Originally posted by FORD
                    ... And let's face it, if mothers (except Chelsea Clinton's) ruled this world, there would be no goddamned war in the first place...

                    Comment

                    • blonddgirl777
                      ROCKSTAR

                      • Mar 2005
                      • 5805

                      #11
                      Originally posted by kwame k
                      Sorry for stealing your thunder, Lounge....
                      Hey you!
                      Quit stealing our thunders! L.O.L.
                      (At least, I know I'm not the only one)...

                      Seriously, it's nice to read your posts.
                      http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...oman-movie.jpg
                      Originally posted by Nitro Express
                      ... What erases the linger of horniness more than Al Quaida? Then blondegirl can post some new hot dudes and stir a new wave of horniness...
                      Originally posted by Jérôme Frenchise
                      [B]... Cooking, I mean Cooking, is men's field...
                      http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...i_triangle.jpg
                      Originally posted by VanHalener
                      ... Fight the Good Fight and Win!...
                      Originally posted by FORD
                      ... And let's face it, if mothers (except Chelsea Clinton's) ruled this world, there would be no goddamned war in the first place...

                      Comment

                      • ULTRAMAN VH
                        Commando
                        • May 2004
                        • 1480

                        #12
                        Well kwami, I have no quarrel with you and the homework you did on this topic is impressive. I agree that these bail outs are a nightmare, especially for the middle class taxpayer. Yes I am a Conservative but it does not mean I agree with the policies of the current administration. I think both parties are tearing this country to pieces, which is why I threw my support toward Ron Paul. As far as Lounge Queen goes, he moderates the Frontline like a dictatorship, and that was the point I was trying to make in my earlier post.

                        Comment

                        • ULTRAMAN VH
                          Commando
                          • May 2004
                          • 1480

                          #13
                          Originally posted by blonddgirl777
                          "Conservative"?
                          The Republican party is behond conservative...
                          "Destructive" is more like it!


                          And what do you expect from a political forum at a David Lee Roth site?
                          Although I am not for editing or any other kinds of censorship, I think that if you want to chit-chat with some Busheeps, you will have to join the "Rush Limbaugh Army"!
                          I expect a fair playing field. It pisses me when someone of far left ilk decides he doesn't like a certain post or thread and takes the liberty of editing it or dumping it. How would you like it if Lounge edited your post's and threads. Oh and just because I have conservative values, I am a Busheep? Gee, you're not narrow minded. Um Mrs, Hitler before you brand me and send me off to the killing fields, maybe you should do a little more homework on what I stand for.

                          Comment

                          • Nickdfresh
                            SUPER MODERATOR

                            • Oct 2004
                            • 49563

                            #14
                            Originally posted by ULTRAMAN VH
                            I expect a fair playing field. It pisses me when someone of far left ilk decides he doesn't like a certain post or thread and takes the liberty of editing it or dumping it. How would you like it if Lounge edited your post's and threads. Oh and just because I have conservative values, I am a Busheep? Gee, you're not narrow minded. Um Mrs, Hitler before you brand me and send me off to the killing fields, maybe you should do a little more homework on what I stand for.
                            That's all fine and well, and you may have a point (for once)...

                            But the only op-eds I've ever dumped have been the ones that are completely hair-brained and off-topic...

                            And I don't even doing anything of the sort recently, except for Savicki's link-spam...

                            Comment

                            • kwame k
                              TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                              • Feb 2008
                              • 11302

                              #15
                              Originally posted by ULTRAMAN VH
                              Well kwami, I have no quarrel with you and the homework you did on this topic is impressive.
                              Thanks man.
                              Both parties are flawed. Special interest and corporate greed runs rampant on both sides. It’s that old saying “The lesser of two evils”. No one party is perfect. We all fall short of the glory brothers and sisters.

                              Whether or not you agree with me, personally, doesn’t take away your right to your opinion. If anyone can show me “facts” as to why a certain point of view I may have is incorrect, I’m willing to concede the point. If you can’t and you’re just spouting off party line rhetoric, that’s when the locker room mentality and mud slinging starts with me. The gloves are off. That’s my view of the term “sheep” I see thrown around here.

                              I will not take what is said by anyone as fact until I can research enough of the data to come to an informed opinion. Everyone should do the same.

                              Comments have been made about the Conservative view not being allowed around here. I personally welcome the debate. Convince me why I am wrong and bring references/links to back up your POV.

                              Other than that let's agree to disagree but remember I'm always right :D
                              Originally posted by vandeleur
                              E- Jesus . Playing both sides because he didnt understand the argument in the first place :D

                              Comment

                              Working...