PDA

View Full Version : CBS Stands By Bush-Guard Memos



DLR'sCock
09-11-2004, 12:50 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/06/politics/main641481.shtml

CBS Stands By Bush-Guard Memos
By CBS/AP
CBSNews.com

Friday 10 September 2004



VIDEO
QuickTime
Broadband | DialUp
Windows Media
Broadband | DialUp

Questions have been raised about the authenticity of newly unearthed memos acquired by CBS News that say President Bush's National Guard commander believed Mr. Bush was shirking his duties.
The network is defending the authenticity of the memos, which were obtained by CBS News' "60 Minutes," saying experts who examined the memos concluded they were authentic documents produced by Mr. Bush's former commander, Lt. Col. Jerry Killian.

In a statement, CBS News said it stands by its story.

"This report was not based solely on recovered documents, but rather on a preponderance of evidence, including documents that were provided by unimpeachable sources, interviews with former Texas National Guard officials and individuals who worked closely back in the early 1970s with Colonel Jerry Killian and were well acquainted with his procedures, his character and his thinking," the statement read.

"In addition, the documents are backed up not only by independent handwriting and forensic document experts but by sources familiar with their content," the statement continued. "Contrary to some rumors, no internal investigation is underway at CBS News nor is one planned."

CBS News Anchor Dan Rather says many of those raising questions about the documents have focused on something called superscript, a key that automatically types a raised "th."

Critics claim typewriters didn't have that ability in the 1970s. But some models did. In fact, other Bush military records already released by the White House itself show the same superscript – including one from 1968.

Some analysts outside CBS say they believe the typeface on these memos is New Times Roman, which they claim was not available in the 1970s.

But the owner of the company that distributes this typing style says it has been available since 1931.

Document and handwriting examiner Marcel Matley analyzed the documents for CBS News. He says he believes they are real. But he is concerned about exactly what is being examined by some of the people questioning the documents, because deterioration occurs each time a document is reproduced. And the documents being analyzed outside of CBS have been photocopied, faxed, scanned and downloaded, and are far removed from the documents CBS started with.

Matley did this interview with us prior to Wednesday's "60 Minutes" broadcast. He looked at the documents and the signatures of Col. Killian, comparing known documents with the colonel's signature on the newly discovered ones.

"We look basically at what's called significant or insignificant features to determine whether it's the same person or not," Matley said. "I have no problem identifying them. I would say based on our available handwriting evidence, yes, this is the same person."

Matley finds the signatures to be some of the most compelling evidence.

Reached Friday by satellite, Matley said, "Since it is represented that some of them are definitely his, then we can conclude they are his signatures."

Matley said he's not surprised that questions about the documents have come up.

"I knew going in that this was dynamite one way or the other. And I knew that potentially it could do far more potential damage to me professionally than benefit me," he said. "But we seek the truth. That's what we do. You're supposed to put yourself out, to seek the truth and take what comes from it."

Robert Strong was an administrative officer for the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam years. He knew Jerry Killian, the man credited with writing the documents. And paper work, like these documents, was Strong's specialty. He is standing by his judgment that the documents are real.

"They are compatible with the way business was done at that time," Strong said. "They are compatible with the man I remember Jerry Killian being. I don't see anything in the documents that's discordant with what were the times, the situation or the people involved."

Killian died in 1984.

Strong says the highly charged political atmosphere of the National Guard at the time was perfectly represented in the new documents.

"It verged on outright corruption in terms of the favors that were done, the power that was traded. And it was unconscionable from a moral and ethical standpoint. It was unconscionable," Strong said.

The president's service record emerged as an issue during the 2000 race and again this winter. The Killian documents revived the issue of Mr. Bush's time in uniform after weeks in which Democratic challenger John Kerry, a decorated Vietnam combat veteran, has faced questions over his record as a Navy officer and an anti-war protester.

The questions about Mr. Bush's service center on how Mr. Bush got into the Guard and whether he fulfilled his duties during a period from mid-1972 to mid-1973.

What the Killian memos purport to show is that Mr. Bush defied a direct order to appear for a physical exam, that his performance as an officer was lacking in other ways and that Mr. Bush used family connections to try to quash any inquiry into his lapses.

In a separate revelation, the Boston Globe this week reported that Mr. Bush promised to sign up with a Boston-area unit when he left his Texas unit in 1973 to attend Harvard Business School. Mr. Bush never signed up with a Boston unit.

-------

ELVIS
09-11-2004, 01:24 PM
It was a fake!

The voters believe it was a fake!

End of story!

End of Kerry!

..and hopefully.. end of Dan Rather !!


:elvis:

FORD
09-11-2004, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
It was a fake!

The voters believe it was a fake!

End of story!

End of Kerry!

..and hopefully.. end of Dan Rather !!

http://www.acousticguitar.com/issues/ag92/GearImage92.gif
Dreeeeeeeeeeeeeeam
Dream dream dreeeam
Dreeeeeeeeeeeeeeam
Dream dream dreeeam...

BigBadBrian
09-11-2004, 03:40 PM
Hell yes CBS stands by their story. They are laughing stocks. :D :D :D

FORD
09-11-2004, 04:28 PM
Further scrutiny lessens doubts on Bush memos
Some skeptics now say IBM typewriter could have been used

- Francie Latour, Michael Rezendes, Boston Globe
Saturday, September 11, 2004



After CBS News trumpeted newly discovered documents Wednesday that referred to a 1973 effort to "sugar coat" President Bush's service record in the Texas Air National Guard, the network almost immediately faced charges that the memos were forgeries with typography that was not available on typewriters used at that time.

But specialists interviewed by the Globe and some other news organizations say the specialized characters used in the documents, and the type format, were common to electric typewriters in wide use in the early 1970s, when Bush was a first lieutenant.

Philip Bouffard, a forensic document examiner in Ohio who has analyzed typewritten samples for 30 years, had expressed suspicions about the documents in an interview with the New York Times, one in a wave of similar media reports. But Bouffard told the Globe Friday that after further study, he now believed the documents could have been prepared on an IBM Selectric Composer typewriter available at the time.

Analysts who have examined the documents focus on several facets of their typography, among them the use of a curved apostrophe, a raised, or superscript, "th," and the proportional spacing between the characters -- spacing that varies with the width of the letters. In older typewriters, each letter was allotted the same space.

Those who doubt the documents say those typographical elements would not have been commonly available at the time of Bush's service. But such characters were common features on electric typewriters of that era, the Globe determined through interviews with specialists and examination of documents from the period. In fact, one such raised "th," used to describe a Guard unit, the 187th, appears in a document in Bush's official record the White House made public this year.

Meanwhile, "CBS Evening News" Friday night explained how it had sought to authenticate the documents, focusing primarily on its examiner's conclusion that two of the records were signed by Bush's guard commander, Lt. Col. Jerry Killian. CBS also said other sources -- among Killian's friends and colleagues -- verified that the content of the documents reflected Killian's views at the time.

One of them, Robert Strong, a Guard colleague, said the language in the documents was "compatible with the way business was done at that time. They are compatible with the man I remember Jerry Killian being."

But William Flynn, a Phoenix document examiner cited in a Washington Post report Friday, said he had not changed his mind because he did not believe that the proportional spacing between characters, and between lines, in the documents obtained by CBS was possible on typewriters used by the military at the time.

Flynn said his doubts were also based on his belief that the curved apostrophe was not available on electric typewriters at the time, although documents from the period reviewed by the Globe show it was. He acknowledged that the quality of the copies of the documents he examined was poor.

The controversy over the authenticity of the documents has all but blocked out discussion of their content. They say Killian was under pressure to "sugar coat" Bush's record, and Bush refused a direct order to take a required medical examination and discussed how he could skip drills.

Bouffard, the Ohio document specialist, said that he had first dismissed the Bush documents because the letters and formatting of the memos did not match any of the 4,000 samples in his database. But Friday, Bouffard said that he had not considered the IBM Selectric Composer. Once he compared the memos to Selectric Composer samples, Bouffard said, his view shifted.

In the Times interview, Bouffard had also questioned whether the military would have used the Composer, a large machine. But Friday he provided a document indicating that as early as April 1969 the Air Force had completed service testing for the Composer, possibly in preparation for purchasing the typewriters.

As for the raised "th" that appears in the Bush memos, Bouffard said that custom characters on the Composer's metal typehead ball were available in the 1970s.

"You can't just say that this is definitively the mark of a computer," Bouffard said.

link (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/09/11/MNGO68NEKR1.DTL&type=printable)

ELVIS
09-11-2004, 04:35 PM
While you liberals continue to worry about what George Bush and John Kerry did 30 years ago, we conservatives will look forward to what we're going to do in the next 4 years...

See ya!

:D

DLR'sCock
09-11-2004, 04:36 PM
The technology was available at the time...but not prevalent. Once again smoke and mirrors from the Bush admin switches the debate to the authenticity and not the content...

John Ashcroft
09-11-2004, 04:39 PM
Why in the hell would any administration respond to the contents of fake documents???

I mean come on dude, get serious here.

DLR'sCock
09-11-2004, 04:56 PM
Why would the citiznes of the US and the rest of the world respond to a fake President????

ELVIS
09-11-2004, 06:01 PM
Typical liberal no answer...

DLR'sCock
09-11-2004, 06:03 PM
Typical, doesn't get it...

John Ashcroft
09-11-2004, 06:50 PM
And I'm still waiting for that recount that makes algore the President...

ELVIS
09-11-2004, 06:51 PM
Why do you liberals always answer questions with questions ??

The conservatives on this board answer the questions that come at us...

FORD
09-11-2004, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
Why do you liberals always answer questions with questions ??


I can think of a Liberal who did exactly that when the hypocritical right wingers of His time asked Him loaded questions.....

If it worked for Him, it's good enough for me.

wraytw
09-11-2004, 09:20 PM
What's that you say, Cock? You're out of kool-aid?

DLR'sCock
09-12-2004, 12:20 PM
Don't you guys have a cross to burn somewhere?

BigBadBrian
09-12-2004, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by DLR'sCock
Don't you guys have a cross to burn somewhere?

You can start dreaming of 2008 now, Cock. Dan Rather has killed John Kerry's chances. :gulp:

DLR'sCock
09-12-2004, 02:47 PM
No???? It's not cross burning day for you guys??? Come Oh, I forgot, maybe it's gaybashing day for you guys?????

FORD
09-12-2004, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by DLR'sCock
No???? It's not cross burning day for you guys??? Come Oh, I forgot, maybe it's gaybashing day for you guys?????

Nah, they never bash gays on the Sabbath. I think this is wife beating day.

Warham
09-12-2004, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Nah, they never bash gays on the Sabbath. I think this is wife beating day.

What are you guys doing here? Aren't you supposed to be out hugging trees? :D

ELVIS
09-12-2004, 04:23 PM
I don't know what you guys are getting at with cross burning and gay bashing...:confused:

John Ashcroft
09-12-2004, 04:50 PM
A little trick they learned from Robert KKK Byrd.

JCOOK
09-13-2004, 01:17 PM
When are you libs gonna stop with that tired bullshit its fucking old and tired.

JCOOK
09-13-2004, 01:20 PM
Whats' wrong with you people look on your calendar.... today is bash the handicapped day.

Jesus Christ
09-13-2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by FORD
I can think of a Liberal who did exactly that when the hypocritical right wingers of His time asked Him loaded questions.....

If it worked for Him, it's good enough for me.

Verily, My son :)

ELVIS
09-13-2004, 01:43 PM
Verily, you're retarted...:rolleyes:

JCOOK
09-13-2004, 01:48 PM
I recall that certain liberal telling people that there would some hellish consequences if they did not repent.

Figs
09-13-2004, 02:41 PM
"Boy my heart is growling"

wraytw
09-13-2004, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
I don't know what you guys are getting at with cross burning and gay bashing...:confused:

Neither do they. :)

BITEYOASS
09-13-2004, 08:18 PM
Something tells me that Alzheimers is starting to affect some of the staff at CBS. Look at how old each of the reporters on 60 minutes are for crying out loud?!?!? 20 years from now they'll probably have to hire a taxedermist to keep them erect during the introduction. Since in there wills, it requires CBS to keep them on 60 minutes for eternity! LOL:D

freak
09-13-2004, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by John Ashcroft
A little trick they learned from Robert KKK Byrd.

Ahhh! The pride and joy of my home state.

It really amuses me when they refer to him as "The Conscience of the Senate".

John Ashcroft
09-13-2004, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by freak
Ahhh! The pride and joy of my home state.

It really amuses me when they refer to him as "The Conscience of the Senate".

Nah, they may actually have it right with all of the pork-barrel spending eminating from that pit...

FORD
09-13-2004, 09:22 PM
Byrd is one of the few Senators of either party with the balls to stand up to these unelected fascist pieces of shit in the White House. If he weren't so damned old, he could run for President.

freak
09-13-2004, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Byrd is one of the few Senators of either party with the balls to stand up to these unelected fascist pieces of shit in the White House. If he weren't so damned old, he could run for President.

Nope. The hometown good-old-boy has skeletons in his closet that would make a Kennedy quake with fear ;)

John Ashcroft
09-13-2004, 09:42 PM
Yeah, but liberals are willing to excuse such "youthful indiscretions" in the name of their own acquiescence of power.

Even 9 out of 10 "white ******" dems will agree on this one...

ELVIS
09-14-2004, 01:11 AM
:D

Sgt Schultz
09-14-2004, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by FORD
Byrd is one of the few Senators of either party with the balls to stand up to these unelected fascist pieces of shit in the White House. If he weren't so damned old, he could run for President.

Byrd is a dottering old fool who rambles on about his dog on the Senate floor - but even HE knows how the Electoral College works, even though most Democrats don't seem to be able to grasp the concept. Also too bad that hysterical Dems who cry "fascist" don't get a chance to talk to people who have actually lived under Fascism, or better yet, get to live under Facsit rule.

Warham
09-14-2004, 02:39 PM
It's the libs favorite word right now, Schultz.

JCOOK
09-14-2004, 02:54 PM
Ford and Cock-- what do you guys have to say about the Gentleman from West Virginia who used to be in the Klan? Hmm this should be good.

Figs
09-14-2004, 02:55 PM
uhhhhh...

alsip
09-14-2004, 03:01 PM
As a registered Republican and supporter of President Bush, I must admit I am in agreement w/your characterization of Ashcroft. a disgrace to our Federal Gov't.

John Ashcroft
09-14-2004, 03:36 PM
Hey, easy now!

Beaten by a dead person, yes. KKK recruiter, no.

FORD
09-14-2004, 10:26 PM
I suppose the BCE spinmeisters will claim this is "forged" too........

FORD
09-14-2004, 10:26 PM
And this.......

ELVIS
09-14-2004, 10:28 PM
No, but that Dan Rather bullshit is and you know it...

conmee
09-14-2004, 10:33 PM
Not to change subjects, but where are the Chappaquidick documents like that... I wonder if they scanned the toe-tag of that poor girl... just wondering how the hell these kinds of things get found, scanned in, and published on a website... god, I hope that Visa receipt for the Real Doll sex manequin I purchased last year doesn't end up sinking my political career in the next decade... lmao

Icon.

conmee
09-14-2004, 10:35 PM
Figs,

That's the kinda secretary, er... administrative assistant I want working (for) me over... lmao

Icon.

diamondD
09-14-2004, 10:59 PM
I don't think anyone was denying that stuff FORD, so what's your point?

wraytw
09-14-2004, 11:07 PM
He doesn't have one. He has to change the subject because he knows the documents are fakes.

Big Train
09-15-2004, 02:50 AM
Its a very popular liberal song and dance number "The Misdirection". You know, question the questioner, introduce irrelevant items to the discussion, put random fake documents in...and shake it all about...

John Ashcroft
09-15-2004, 08:08 AM
Heh heh heh... You got it dude.

It's all in the playbook.

DrMaddVibe
09-15-2004, 08:34 AM
Somebody mention lynchin'?

Why can't we have fun like the good ol days!

John Ashcroft
09-15-2004, 08:37 AM
Heh heh heh...

That's a great pic! If Byrd were a Republican, there'd already be billboards of it.

ELVIS
09-15-2004, 08:51 AM
That's true...