Gene Simmons backs up claim why Hagar VH was better

[Ga y Cherone]

More from genesimmons.com:

More Gene...

"Gene said "You're wrong. Although I prefer the Roth era VH, the fans voted for the Hagar VH version. With Hagar, they became twice as big."

and...

Response from Gene:

"Sales per album go to Hagar. Ticket sales for concerts go to Hagar. I'm right."

I mean, who's gonna gonna argue with Gene?:confused:

[Carmine Raguzza]

The Golden Gloves Champion of Milwaukee thats who! Bring it on Gene!

[bueno bob]

I will. Gene needs to check his numbers again, because he doesn't know shit from shinola. Roth era VH has outsold Van Hagar - the numbers are there, it doesn't take a fucking genius to figure it out.

Then again, nobody's ever accused Gene Simmons of being a genius...nor have they accused him of actually having two bits worth of brains...if he had either, Kiss would have DIED MERCIFULLY long, long ago...

[Sarge]

Sammy probably told him that he has sold 100 million more albums than ROTH

[Figs]

He just doesn't feel like looking it up. VH's official website shows all the album sales.

5 Van Hagar albums (including a live album w/Roth tunes) - 18 million
VH1 and 1984 - 20 million with the first album getting minimal airplay (at first)



I like Gene & Paul - even though they do and say a lot of bullshit
I like Eddie & Fredo - even though they do and say a lot of bullshit

[Thetruthbaby]

I'm a Kiss fan but Gene is wrong. The RIAA lists VH's album sales for everyone to see. If you add them up you'll see. ROTH 34 MILLION, Hagar 18 million. End of story.

[Ga y Cherone]

How do Gene and Sammy come up with their numbers pertaining to album sales? They state their claims like it's fact.

[Vinnie Velvet]

Gene may be a successful business man, but who says he can count numbers??

That's why he has an accountant.

[Kelly]

Even if Van Hagar did outsell Roth era Van Halen, how would that make them better? If better is determined by record sales then isn't N'Sync better than them both? (I have no idea about the volume of sales, by the way, and don't care).

I would judge "better" by quality of songs and Roth era wins hands down there!

Of course, Gene Simmons probably would define better as record sales, so there ya go.

[BackInAction]

Originally posted by Ga y Cherone
How do Gene and Sammy come up with their numbers pertaining to album sales? They state their claims like it's fact.

He may take into consideration that the "Roth era" albums have been on sale for a much longer time that the "Hagar" stuff. And the fact that people loose shit and buy something again...and again. And that there were no CD's originally for the roth albums, so people bought the CD when it was avalible...and the remasters...

It's kinda logical that the albums that have been on sale for many more years would outsell those that have been on sale for half the time.

I'd like to see how may roth albums were sold from day one up to the split. I think it would be a much more fair comparison.

Oh, and none of the numbers on RIAA or VH's website count overseas sales, which were huge for both eras, especially the hagar stuff.

[Roth & Roll]

Originally posted by bueno bob
Then again, nobody's ever accused Gene Simmons of being a genius...nor have they accused him of actually having two bits worth of brains

LOL! No shit!
Anyone who watched him blow the $100 question on "Celebrity Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?" after bragging to Regis about being a teacher before joining KISS can attest to the fact that Gene is a dumbass.

[Terry]

Originally posted by Kelly
Even if Van Hagar did outsell Roth era Van Halen, how would that make them better? If better is determined by record sales then isn't N'Sync better than them both? (I have no idea about the volume of sales, by the way, and don't care).

I would judge "better" by quality of songs and Roth era wins hands down there!

Of course, Gene Simmons probably would define better as record sales, so there ya go.

Classic Van Halen fans have both record sales and the quality of music on their side in what is basically a non-argument in terms of classic Van Halen vs. the two other versions.

Simmons is clearly ignorant of the facts.

End of story.

[Thetruthbaby]

The whole switching to CD from vinyl or cassette doesn't really hold much ground either since CD's didn't become the largest way to deliver music to consumers until around 1990. Throughout the 80's (EVEN 88' & 89') cassettes were still VERY popular so 5150 & OU812 BOTH benefitted from re-purchase over the years and since 5150 is VHagar's biggest selling album it's stupid to act like only the Roth era albums were re-purchased. I always go by this---- in its first year and a half of release 1984 sold well over 5 MILLION copies whereas 5150 only sold a little over 3 million copies. Now as of 2004 1984 has sold 10 MILLION and 5150 only 6 million. VHALEN were at their peak with ROTH. This can not be debated if you just look at the numbers.

[BackInAction]

Originally posted by Thetruthbaby
The whole switching to CD from vinyl or cassette doesn't really hold much ground either since CD's didn't become the largest way to deliver music to consumers until around 1990. Throughout the 80's (EVEN 88' & 89') cassettes were still VERY popular so 5150 & OU812 BOTH benefitted from re-purchase over the years and since 5150 is VHagar's biggest selling album it's stupid to act like only the Roth era albums were re-purchased. I always go by this---- in its first year and a half of release 1984 sold well over 5 MILLION copies whereas 5150 only sold a little over 3 million copies. Now as of 2004 1984 has sold 10 MILLION and 5150 only 6 million. VHALEN were at their peak with ROTH. This can not be debated if you just look at the numbers.

So...you base your point on sales of just 2 albums and I'm looking at the whole picture...and MY argument doesn't hold ground? WTF?

[Thetruthbaby]

Yes you're a moron if you think that VHagar didn't benefit significantly from re-purchases. It's all in my post, the numbers don't lie. VH were at their sales peak with ROTH and they NEVER reached that plateau again. Learn to live with it dufus. They lost almost half of the sales they enjoyed when 5150 came out. And 5150 & OU812 are the 2 biggest selling albums of the VHagar catalog and both benefited significantly from re-purchase. Game Over, thanks for playing.

[BackInAction]

Originally posted by Thetruthbaby
Yes you're a moron if you think that VHagar didn't benefit significantly from re-purchases. It's all in my post, the numbers don't lie. VH were at their sales peak with ROTH and they NEVER reached that plateau again. Learn to live with it dufus. They lost almost half of the sales they enjoyed when 5150 came out. And 5150 & OU812 are the 2 biggest selling albums of the VHagar catalog and both benefited significantly from re-purchase. Game Over, thanks for playing.

Wow, you're a dumbass. I didn't say Hagar didn't benifit from repurchases, but I'm sure that roth did more. Read the whole point before responding to it, you know, so you won't sound so stupid.

If you're telling me that the roth era didn't benifit from repurchaces and remasters moreso than the hagar era, then you're a complete fucking tool.

Hagar Remasters...oh yeah, there aren't any...

Roth era albums on CD on original release... there aren't any

[Thetruthbaby]

As dumb as a bag of hammers. Listen you genetic defective, VH have sold roughly 2 times as many albums with ROTH as they have with hagar. The entire hagar catalog will be re-mastered and released very soon and we'll see what happens. There was a report on Melodicrock that stated that VH 1 had outsold 5150 since soundscan began back in 91' by around a half million copies. That hagar shit will never catch the ROTH fronted material. Don't even get me started on the multitude of FAILURES for this current tour or the complete lack of interest in the 3 new tracks from vhagar on this greatest hits set. When ROTH came back in 96' and did 2 songs what happened assfuck-- I'LL TELL YOU. A NUMBER 1 ALBUM which has now gone triple platinum. Songs on the radio frequently, stations getting loads of requests. In comparison with no excitement for this drivel they recently put out. Pollstar did an article in 96' that stated that they projected VH's tour with ROTH to be bigger than the Eagles attendance wise. VH's legacy is with ROTH. Only a brain dead person would debate. Why don't you go over to the links where they actually believe the shit you're shoveling.

[Parnelly]

Gene can take that big old tongue and stick it right up his own ass. He apparently has no clue and would think that william hong sounded good with the sisters. Fuck Gene and his lame clothing line and everything else with his name face or logo on it. Hes just as bad as the Red Rooster.FUCK.
DLR FUCKIN RULES.

[interceptor]

Gene, as you have all already pointed out, is totally full of shit. I've heard him say more than once something like "Some bands, like AC-DC and Van Halen", start out huge, shake up their lineup and then they get bigger. Anyone that is a fan of rock music IMHO can see through that statement as a cheap excuse to try and justify why Gene and Paul shit on Ace and Peter and have shaken up their own lineup so much. Nice try Gene, we're not buyin it....or your fuckin' coffin, either.

[Halen High]

Originally posted by BackInAction
He may take into consideration that the "Roth era" albums have been on sale for a much longer time that the "Hagar" stuff. And the fact that people loose shit and buy something again...and again. And that there were no CD's originally for the roth albums, so people bought the CD when it was avalible...and the remasters...

It's kinda logical that the albums that have been on sale for many more years would outsell those that have been on sale for half the time.

I'd like to see how may roth albums were sold from day one up to the split. I think it would be a much more fair comparison.

Oh, and none of the numbers on RIAA or VH's website count overseas sales, which were huge for both eras, especially the hagar stuff.

No, the Hagar stuff was never huge overseas. 5150 and OU812 did well in Australia but were certainly not huge. In fact, Van Halen's impact in overseas markets dropped dramatically after Dave left. With Sammy, they rarely ventured out of the US and for good reason. By the time 'Balance' came out they were even reduced to support act for Bon Jovi in Europe.

[scottydabodi]

Hagar Sympathizers should FUCK OFF.... sounds like Simmons is becoming one too, so fuck him. Dave or the Grave, asshole, and if you don't like it, you know where your dinner hangs.

[Matt White]

Simmons is just hatin' DAVE because the DIAMOND called him out in "CRAZY FROM THE HEAT". No more, no less. Simmons is a back-stabbing opportunist who ONLY looks out for GENE SIMMONS. KISS hasn't mattered in almost 30 years, who CARES what he has to say?!?!

FUCK YOU Van Hagar!!!!

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by BackInAction
Hagar Remasters...oh yeah, there aren't any...

There's a good reason why they've waited so long to do it.

Lack of interest.

Besides, the currently available CDs of the Hagar catalog already have the original packaging from the first pressing original vinyls and cassettes, 5150 and up, so what would be the point?

The Roth era Van Halen albums, when originally put onto CD, lacked a lot of pictures and additional liner notes, so on and so forth, that were on the original pressing of the vinyls and cassettes, so in addition to this AND exponentially expanding the sound and production quality, cutting tape hiss and analog source limitations, there was a damn good reason to reissue the Roth catalog.

In so far as Hagars output is concerned, there are really only 2 albums that could be any improved upon, and that would be 5150 and OU812. Remember though, that the liner notes won't be any different, the lyrics are already there, and the sound doesn't need to be tweaked as much because the production quality and the sound of the whole Hagar catalog 1991 and after isn't going to be expanded on exponentially or improved in any dramatic sense.

For those reasons, there really isn't any great reason to reissue albums like F.U.C.K., Balance, and the live album. There isn't a bunch of material to add to make it look like it was an original pressing of the vinyl onto CD for 5150 and OU812, and for later albums it's non-existant because it's already there in the CDs you can go buy right now. And, as explained, there's not a lot to do with anything after OU812 soundwise.

I will say, without any uncertainty, that OU812 could benefit from a better mix, though...how that mix escaped the studio and made it into the ears of the public is beyond me, but it's a slipshod production job at best...sound quality is awful.

[Matt White]

5150's BIGGEST problem is that it is a PILE OF SHIT. Terrible lyrics, uninspired guitar playing, electronic drums, and (surprise surprise) NO bass. ou812, incredibly enough, is EVEN worse.:lol:
ONLY the SHEEP & a charlatan like Simmons would try and argue that Van Hagar were bigger than and sold more product than THE MIGHTY VAN HALEN. No basis in reality.
Thanks for stopping by the DAVID LEE ROTH ARMY, the REAL NO SPIN ZONE.


DAVE OR THE GRAVE MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!

[Panamark]

Someone should post the album sales directly from the
official site for Gene. Would be interesting to see him have to
admit he was wrong :)

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Panamark
Someone should post the album sales directly from the
official site for Gene. Would be interesting to see him have to
admit he was wrong :)

He'd just tell you that, beings as he's Gene Simmons and all, he's not wrong. He'd tell you that he was in every store in America from 1978 to 2004 and saw how many Van Halen records were sold at all times and therefore he's right, because he's Gene Simmons and therefore MUST be right

:rolleyes:

[Panamark]

Gene is a real bitch..

I heard him throw a hissy fit on Radio here, after they dedicated
an hour to his recent solo album, then made the cardinal sin of
playing a "KISS" song. You should have heard him. He spat the
dummy and stormed out of the studio.. What a wanker..

[BIG GOOSE]

Originally posted by Halen High
No, the Hagar stuff was never huge overseas. 5150 and OU812 did well in Australia but were certainly not huge. In fact, Van Halen's impact in overseas markets dropped dramatically after Dave left. With Sammy, they rarely ventured out of the US and for good reason. By the time 'Balance' came out they were even reduced to support act for Bon Jovi in Europe.

This is very true !!
I never heard any new VHagar on Sydney radio after "Dreams".They died in Australia after 5150.

[Ga y Cherone]

Oversea sales, hmmm? Looks like Van Halen wasn't big in Europe but just as recent as last year, Van Halen circa 5150 was being played in Japan. Not only were the tunes being played at the hotspots but the muzak from 5150 was being programmed into the games at the arcade. I heard casio versions of "Dreams" to "Love Walks In" on that game where you operate a claw to pick up a stuffed animal.

Most of the young folk in the nightlife scene know the name Van Halen.

Sayonara.

[EAST COAST]

fact is, which was aluded to by some post, gene is threatened by dave. as is steven tyler, and many other singers but those two bands in particular. you know who was the happiest when dave bailed? every other big band, bon jovi, asmith, kiss,deflepard, all the big names knew they were not, could not, measure up,in terms of album sales, tours,posters, magazine covers, the whole deal. fuck off non realists your make believe scenerios are rediculously laughable. just because you wish it to be true doesnt make it that way. luckily for me, i chose the cream of the crop decades ago..... DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER

[Coyote]

Originally posted by Halen High
No, the Hagar stuff was never huge overseas. 5150 and OU812 did well in Australia but were certainly not huge. In fact, Van Halen's impact in overseas markets dropped dramatically after Dave left. With Sammy, they rarely ventured out of the US and for good reason. By the time 'Balance' came out they were even reduced to support act for Bon Jovi in Europe.

True dat. Although, if you request a VH song here, your choices are "Jump", "Panama", or "Can't Stop Loving You".

[TongueNGroove]

Originally posted by BackInAction
He may take into consideration that the "Roth era" albums have been on sale for a much longer time that the "Hagar" stuff. And the fact that people loose shit and buy something again...and again. And that there were no CD's originally for the roth albums, so people bought the CD when it was avalible...and the remasters...

It's kinda logical that the albums that have been on sale for many more years would outsell those that have been on sale for half the time.

I'd like to see how may roth albums were sold from day one up to the split. I think it would be a much more fair comparison.

Oh, and none of the numbers on RIAA or VH's website count overseas sales, which were huge for both eras, especially the hagar stuff.


Couldn't have said it better myself. Plus there is no reason to "Remaster" the Hagar era, it was recorded with top notch equipment that hasnt changed much since the 90's.

Yah I just love how you guys compare the sales of an album that's 10 years old with one that is 20 years old, brilliant.

[Matt White]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
Couldn't have said it better myself. Plus there is no reason to "Remaster" the Hagar era, it was recorded with top notch equipment that hasnt changed much since the 90's.

Yah I just love how you guys compare the sales of an album that's 10 years old with one that is 20 years old, brilliant.

Nice how you conveniently ignore the fact that 1984 sold roughly 2X the amount of records as 5150 in the same amount of years from the time they were released. Do you really think that 5150 will match 1984 in sales?!? It's ONLY 2 years younger than 1984. 0U812? FUCK? BALANCE? VHIII? Not a very realistic outlook.
The 6-pack continues to sell BECAUSE OF THE MUSIC. PERIOD. NO SPIN. LEARN IT, KNOW IT, LIVE IT.



DAVE OR THE GRAVE MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!!!

[tjvhou812]

does it seem cold in here to you

[DavidLeeNatra]

chaim could never get over the fact that he had to open for dave in 1988...and I was there...it's obvious that dave and chaim have some animosities with each other going on...

[Hecubus]

Ah yes....

Gene Simmon$

A legend in his own mind....

For someone who had to paint his face because he & his band are so FUCKING UGLY...that's pretty tall talk. Especially for the simple fucking songs that band wrote.....

The douche is still bitter that Roth kept Eddie in Van Halen & didn't let them snag him for Kiss.

[horty07]

Gene is an idiot to think Spammys Van halen has outsold Roths' Van Halen, Then again Gene will also tell you that he is the only reason Kiss was a success. At one time I was the biggest Kiss around, I find it sad what has happened to Kiss. The only thing Gene has ever been successful with has been Kiss, everything else has been a huge flop; and sadly he his dragging the band down. He should have been replaced. As for Paul, he has also lost his mind but I bet his new solo album will kick Genes ass.

[Big Train]

Originally posted by BackInAction
He may take into consideration that the "Roth era" albums have been on sale for a much longer time that the "Hagar" stuff. And the fact that people loose shit and buy something again...and again. And that there were no CD's originally for the roth albums, so people bought the CD when it was avalible...and the remasters...

It's kinda logical that the albums that have been on sale for many more years would outsell those that have been on sale for half the time.

I'd like to see how may roth albums were sold from day one up to the split. I think it would be a much more fair comparison.

Oh, and none of the numbers on RIAA or VH's website count overseas sales, which were huge for both eras, especially the hagar stuff.

This is NOT a logical argument at all, as you fail to take into consideration the PRIME factor. VH with Dave were building a behemoth. Dave built the car and raced it. It got progressively bigger with Dave to the point they could sell out ANYWHERE in the country, any day of the week. The albums sold huge. Everything sold huge.

In theory, Hagar got the single biggest push in the history of rock n roll. In most cases, a replacement singer and the act fade into history. They were able to keep going, which was a plus. However, with those HUGE advantages, Sam and Co. still fumbled and were never able to improve upon or even sustain the success of Roth era VH. They have been riding the ghost for 20 years now and only now is it falling apart. To me, that is more of a testament to Roth VH than it is to say it was an accomplishment to Van Hagar.

As far as overseas, there are similar sanctioning bodies like the RIAA which could prove what's being said.

And yes, Gene IS a moron..

[CROWBAR]

The only reason you heard that bullshit from Gene is because he's trying to justify his own bands ever changing lineup! He does have a personal agenda ( and he used Van Hagar as a example)

Chaim is the most greedy, self centered asshole of all time. Prolly an understatement.

He'll spin it his way everytime! Just a few short yrs. ago, he said that DLR era 'Halen was the best! Polesmoker!

[scottydabodi]

Fuck Gene, he's out of his mind...

[Viking]

As much as I admire him in certain ways, Gene's gefilte fish-munching ass needs to drink a nice, tall glass of shut-the-fuck-up and concentrate on ripping off mouth-breathing KISS fans, and stay out of VH affairs. He might have had a hand in getting the band onto the national map, but he hasn't had a cock hair's worth of input into it in 25 years. Besides, Roth-era VH was so incredible, his meddling probably just moved destiny's agenda forward by a matter of weeks or months.

[DlocRoth]

Originally posted by Thetruthbaby
As dumb as a bag of hammers. Listen you genetic defective, VH have sold roughly 2 times as many albums with ROTH as they have with hagar. The entire hagar catalog will be re-mastered and released very soon and we'll see what happens. There was a report on Melodicrock that stated that VH 1 had outsold 5150 since soundscan began back in 91' by around a half million copies. That hagar shit will never catch the ROTH fronted material. Don't even get me started on the multitude of FAILURES for this current tour or the complete lack of interest in the 3 new tracks from vhagar on this greatest hits set. When ROTH came back in 96' and did 2 songs what happened assfuck-- I'LL TELL YOU. A NUMBER 1 ALBUM which has now gone triple platinum. Songs on the radio frequently, stations getting loads of requests. In comparison with no excitement for this drivel they recently put out. Pollstar did an article in 96' that stated that they projected VH's tour with ROTH to be bigger than the Eagles attendance wise. VH's legacy is with ROTH. Only a brain dead person would debate. Why don't you go over to the links where they actually believe the shit you're shoveling.

EXCELLENT!! A 5 star post!

[tydhurst]

Who cares what Gene Simmons thinks of Van Halen any more, he's done his part.