Who was a better drummer in the 80's Alex Van Halen or Stewart Copeland?

[Nitro Express]

I always dug Stewart Copeland's drumwork when he was in The Police. Alex really was pretty invisible in the early VH days. He didn't stand out until he started doiing his massive bass drum thing on Hot For Teacher.

The drums always got my attention on those Police songs and that's saying something when you have Sting and Andy Summers who are both excellent musicians in their own way.

[sambo]

For me, Stewart Copeland. The guy clearly had a better feel and sense of place, great drum sound too. The Police were awesome, a fantastic trio who sounded much more than the sum of their parts.

[Nitro Express]

Stewart had that signature sound and feel. You knew it was him when you heard it. I remember seeing The Police live and he was playing the intro to Wrapped Around Your Finger on a zilaphone. Very cool.

I never saw Shemp doing cool and different stuff like that. If you saw one Alex Van Halen drum solo, you saw them all. Alex was by far the easiest member of VH to replace. Michael Anthony added more to the band than Alex ever did.

[sambo]

Seeing the Police live would have been awesome! Nice one !
Stewart could do more with a 3 piece kit than Alice can do with 7.

[bueno bob]

Stewert in a stretch!

Although one of the most criminally underrated drummers of the early 80s, IMO, was Nicko McBrain.

[TongueNGroove]

I would definately say Alex is better. No doubt about it. You guys probably wouldn't know since you don't listen to Van "Hagar", but if you check out his work over the years yo can really hear some awsome drum work. I think "Pleasure Dome" is one fine example. But there are many other examples.

[badhorsie]

I was never much of a fan of the police.

They lacked balls . IMO

But they wrote some pretty cool music here and there.

So i gotta go with Alex (who isnt that great anyways).

[tjvhou812]

alex period

[Matt White]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
I would definately say Alex is better. No doubt about it. You guys probably wouldn't know since you don't listen to Van "Hagar", but if you check out his work over the years yo can really hear some awsome drum work. I think "Pleasure Dome" is one fine example. But there are many other examples.

Using that thesis, NOBODY here is gonna think SHEMP is good cause NONE of us listen to Van Hagar. ANd for good reason, they SUCK DOG BALLS!!!

Stewart Copeland could play SHEMP's shit with ONE hand tied behind his back. FACT. No other way to SPIN it.
FUCK SHEMP Van Halen!!!!

DAVE OR THE GRAVE BABY!!!!

[TongueNGroove]

Originally posted by Matt White
Using that thesis, NOBODY here is gonna think SHEMP is good cause NONE of us listen to Van Hagar. ANd for good reason, they SUCK DOG BALLS!!!

Stewart Copeland could play SHEMP's shit with ONE hand tied behind his back. FACT. No other way to SPIN it.
FUCK SHEMP Van Halen!!!!

DAVE OR THE GRAVE BABY!!!!

Exactly. So I wonder why this was even brought up? If you are going to dismiss over a decade of music as being non-existent then how can you truly judge?

[Matt White]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
Exactly. So I wonder why this was even brought up? If you are going to dismiss over a decade of music as being non-existent then how can you truly judge?

Because that decade of POWER BALLADS inspired NOBODY. I don't see ANY Van Hagar inspired artist, ANYWHERE.
Van Hagar SUCKS DOG BALLS!!!

[FORD]

Listen to the Police and then listen to a Sting solo album.

Same singer, same songwriter. So why so damn different?

Why such a continously downhill stream of music descending to complete crapola from Mr Gordon Sumner?

No Stewart Copeland, that's why.

Not since Bonzo choked on his own puke has the lack of a drummer made such an obvious impact on a career.

I'd go see a Police reunion tour hands down without hearing a single new song. Because I know Stewart would kick Sting's ass into gear.

[TongueNGroove]

Originally posted by Matt White
Because that decade of POWER BALLADS inspired NOBODY. I don't see ANY Van Hagar inspired artist, ANYWHERE.
Van Hagar SUCKS DOG BALLS!!!

I see, the Police's 2 albums that anyone knows about inspired millions yet the decade of Van Hagar inspired no one. Gotcha, my bad.

I don't see any Police inspired artists anywhere.

[Rikk]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
I would definately say Alex is better. No doubt about it. You guys probably wouldn't know since you don't listen to Van "Hagar", but if you check out his work over the years yo can really hear some awsome drum work. I think "Pleasure Dome" is one fine example. But there are many other examples.

God, shut up. First off, I'm a drummer. I can tell you with extreme confidence that apart from PLEASURE DOME and a couple of others, Alex's drumming was simpler than ever in his Van Hagar years. The dude lacks imagination in so many cases. He's like the king of simple 4/4 beats.

And if you actually think he has even a speck of the talent that Copeland does, then it shows that you really are the biggest Van Hagar brownnoser there is.

Shut up and get your pathetic ass back in the fucking pen. Idiot.:mad:

[Bill Lumbergh]

I'll go with Alexis The Cunt Boy, simply because I despise Sting and the Police. Bores me to tears........at least at one point I was an Alex fan.

[Rikk]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
I see, the Police's 2 albums that anyone knows about inspired millions yet the decade of Van Hagar inspired no one. Gotcha, my bad.

I don't see any Police inspired artists anywhere.

Hey, moron...the POLICE had five multi-platinum albums. They had WAY MORE hit singles than the shitty Van Hagar did. People are still begging for them to get back together (unlike your pathetic Van Hagar). If you actually are arguing that THE POLICE (one of the most popular and legendary bands of all time) are not as popular as the completely forgotten and pathetic Van Hagar, then you really are showing how strong your blind allegiance is.

Check your statistics, dumbass. All five POLICE albums had hit singles. This is a band that has had their albums remastered and re-released three times! Count that. How many times has the Van Hagar catalog been remastered...uh...try never!

I hear POLICE songs on my local rock radio station several times a day. I could not tell you the last time I heard a Van Hagar song.

Two legendary bands released their last and biggest-selling album in '83/'84: Van Halen. Both albums had a #1 hit. Both albums are still big catalog sellers. Both albums are still talked about. Both bands had a legendary debut. (Don't try and compare DREAMS to ROXANNE...it doesn't even come closer.) STING has made a whole lacklustre career based on the greatness of THE POLICE. He's kinda like VAN HAGAR for POLICE fans.

You are a clueless dickhead.:D

[sambo]

Originally posted by Rikk
God, shut up. First off, I'm a drummer. I can tell you with extreme confidence that apart from PLEASURE DOME and a couple of others, Alex's drumming was simpler than ever in his Van Hagar years. The dude lacks imagination in so many cases. He's like the king of simple 4/4 beats.

And if you actually think he has even a speck of the talent that Copeland does, then it shows that you really are the biggest Van Hagar brownnoser there is.

Shut up and get your pathetic ass back in the fucking pen. Idiot.:mad:

Golf clap Rikk, enough said...

[Rikk]

Originally posted by FORD
I'd go see a Police reunion tour hands down without hearing a single new song. Because I know Stewart would kick Sting's ass into gear.

Amen.

[Rikk]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
Exactly. So I wonder why this was even brought up? If you are going to dismiss over a decade of music as being non-existent then how can you truly judge?

Look at the current sales of that line-up. Shit. This tour was a relative joke. This wasn't the REAL reunion, and most fans knew that. Only influential or legendary bands sell out on their reunion tour. I guess Van Hagar fits into neither category.

Stupid sheep.

[Rikk]

Originally posted by sambo
Golf clap Rikk, enough said...

Thank you.

TONGUE-IN-ASS is showing his idiocy once again.

[Rikk]

Originally posted by Matt White
Using that thesis, NOBODY here is gonna think SHEMP is good cause NONE of us listen to Van Hagar. ANd for good reason, they SUCK DOG BALLS!!!

Stewart Copeland could play SHEMP's shit with ONE hand tied behind his back. FACT. No other way to SPIN it.
FUCK SHEMP Van Halen!!!!

DAVE OR THE GRAVE BABY!!!!

I would call Stewart Copeland one of the best drummers in rock history...ever. He's right near Mitch Mitchell and Bonham. Seriously. His beats are the very hardest for me to play. He has such control of the high hat, his fills are the hardest to master. He is also the king of the drop down beat (for white drummers). Incredible musicianship! People are still trying to figure out some of his stuff.

But you know the best thing about him? He's like Bonham. He created his own style in every way. He's sort of reggae, but with a ton of other influences. He's totally unique. You hear his playing and you know right away that it's him. THE POLICE were great, but as FORD said, they were even more unique because of him. He did stuff that nobody else has been able to copy because of his greatness.

[rustoffa]

Stewart Copeland is a good drummer.

Andy Summers is a big fan of Billy Gibbon's guitar playing.

Sting sings songs with ragheads from Yemen nowadays.

[Red Rock]

Alex is fucking awesome. He kicks anyone's ass. And if you don't see that, then youre a fucking ass.

[Bill Lumbergh]

Yeah, Alexis the twig is one scary mofo, watch out everyone!!!!!!!!

[Red Rock]

shut up

[Lou]

Stewart Copeland is the fuckin' MAN. Someone who can play so many different styles AS WELL AS writes music....just the fuckin' MAN. My opinion, Stewart Copeland WAS the Police more than Sting. Songs like "Walking On The Moon," "Spirits in the Material World," even the popular "Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic" don't get off the ground without him. I am floored every time I hear Stewart Copeland play. He plays hard AND super-clean which is just incredible.

AVH is good, at times great, but he can be imitated. I've yet to hear someone imitate Stewart Copeland.

[Lou]

Originally posted by Rikk
STING has made a whole lacklustre career based on the greatness of THE POLICE. He's kinda like VAN HAGAR for POLICE fans.

That's a great comparison and exactly right. I love the Police, can't stand Sting solo. Love Van HALEN, hate Van Hagar.

[Panamark]

What a toughie !

I hate Alice,
I kinda liked the Police, but they were pop..

When in doubt Metal is my God.

I look at the two and Alice is closer to Metal than
Copeland ever was....

But Copeland was definately a more innovative drummer
in his genre. I just prefer a hard rockin metal beat...
(FUCK I HATE MYSELF, I HAD TO CHOOSE ALICE !!!! :( )

[scorpioboy33]

copeland

[lafours]

Shemp is an awesome drummer...but Copeland is in a whole different league..a true master of the drums.

[TongueNGroove]

Originally posted by Rikk
Thank you.

TONGUE-IN-ASS is showing his idiocy once again.

Uhh hello? Last time I checked, the amount of albums sold does NOT make you a better drummer!
This thread is about who is the better drummer not who YOU think is the better band!

In a drumming duel Alex would make that newb from Police look like a 2 year old on a set of bongos.

[Snow Ho]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove


In a drumming duel Alex would make that newb from Police look like a 2 year old on a set of bongos.


you have got to be kidding me. alex is marginally influential at best as a drummer. this is almost as bad as comparing michael anthony to billy sheehan.

[Matt White]

NO POLICE INFLUENCED BANDS??? ANYWHERE???
Your right. I remember TONS of WHITE bands playing REGGAE before the police. Yup, THOUSANDS!!!!:lol: :bananna: :lol:
WOW!!! Miss the 90's,did 'ya?!?!?!?!?!?!WTF!!!!
Southern California is CRAWLING with bands INFLUENCED by The POLICE, and has been for 20+ years!!! Take your head out of the sand. UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!


"Tonights attendance.....It's 5,150 time!!!!!"
"Excuse me SPAM....4,754...SORRY."

DAVE OR THE GRAVE MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!

[Rikk]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
Uhh hello? Last time I checked, the amount of albums sold does NOT make you a better drummer!
This thread is about who is the better drummer not who YOU think is the better band!

In a drumming duel Alex would make that newb from Police look like a 2 year old on a set of bongos.

Uh, dickhead, YOU brought up the fact that the Police had "two" albums that sold. I had to...uh...correct you. You want to bring up album sales, I'll call you on it. THE POLICE are WAY more popular than Van Hagar.

As for who would tear the other one up, Stewart would make mincemeat of Alex. It's pretty clear to me that you are not a drummer. And if you are, you can't be that good. Because if you could play any of Copeland's harder parts, you'd know how good he is.

[Nitro Express]

I saw The Police several times. On the Ghost in the Machine tour and the Syncronicity tour. Believe me, that band had balls live. I would put them right up there with classic Van Halen as a blow you away band.

Sting had some attitude in those days. He always kinda seemed pissed and egoed by man could he deliver the goods when Stewart Copeland was irratating the hell out of him.

The drums, the guitar, tha bass, it was all good in that band and on some songs it was a wall of sound that would slap the shit out of you. Another plus is good looking girls were to be found at Police shows.

[Thetruthbaby]

They're so different. Like night and day. Copeland just started fooling around with a double pedal a few years back just to give one example of the different styles. I don't think it's comparable really. I mean Weckl is amazing but if you asked him to play like Scott Travis I seriously doubt he could do it. Even though he has incredible technique and knowledge. They're both awesome in their own way. Same with Copeland & AVH.

[Lou]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
Uhh hello? Last time I checked, the amount of albums sold does NOT make you a better drummer!
This thread is about who is the better drummer not who YOU think is the better band!

In a drumming duel Alex would make that newb from Police look like a 2 year old on a set of bongos.

Well that right there shows you have shit for taste and shit for knowledge. "Newb from the Police." Uh-huh. :rolleyes: When you listen to "No Time This Time" get back to me you fucknut.

[Jack68]

Stewart Copeland is a better drummer by far.

[FORD]

Sting is kinda like Eddie in the fact that he needs conflict to have any sort of musical chemistry at all. That's why Van HALEN was so much better than Van Hagar and why the Police albums were so much better than anything Sting has done since.

If Sting and Eddie ever made a record together, it would probably be so goddamned boring that I'd fall asleep before the first song was over

[BARE BONE]

Moron.

[BARE BONE]

Stewart Copeland. He hits harder too. He's always breaking heads.

[Hecubus]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
I see, the Police's 2 albums that anyone knows about inspired millions yet the decade of Van Hagar inspired no one. Gotcha, my bad.

I don't see any Police inspired artists anywhere.

I, for one, am glad that there aren't any Police clones. It's what keeps them unique. FORD was right, Stewart Copeland really was the driving force in that band. The only thing that Van Hagar inspired unfortunately, was grunge, because nobody wanted to listen to the "When It's Dreams Walking In".....

[scottydabodi]

My vote is for Copeland. He's WAY funkier, and can play many more styles than Alice. Copeland's drumming is excellent, and he's highly respected by real drummers, not guys who think that all there is to drumming is ROCK music. Stew incorporates many styles into rock, without saying one is better than the other. That's quite respectable, and I tend to agree. Alice is a fine ROCK drummer, but I seriously doubt that he could play in a band with Stanley Clarke, whereas Stew has. His versatility, character, and chops has earned him respect, and has made him a drumming star, whereas Alice is just a Rock star... which is fine, but I like Stew OVERALL more.

[Terry]

Copeland was much more diverse, his parts more complex, was more creative............

For me AVH's high water marks with Van Halen were the Fair Warning album, which was just great rock drumming, and the 1984 album (not my fave VH album, but AVH's recorded sound and actual peformance were among his best). He's had other points where he stood out along the way ("Outta Love Again"), but is just a solid, perhaps slightly above average rock drummer to me. Would agree with some of the other posts that he was the most replaceable, and would further state that if Dave and Ed got back together and started a new group without AVH or Mike on board, I'd be more excited at that prospect than a classic Van Halen reunion.

Copeland, on tracks like "Spirits In The Material World" and "Demolition Man", doesn't even utilize the traditional snare/bass drum relationship for half of those tracks and those tunes cruise along like nobody's business.

[twonabomber]

Originally posted by Lou
Well that right there shows you have shit for taste and shit for knowledge. "Newb from the Police." Uh-huh. :rolleyes: When you listen to "No Time This Time" get back to me you fucknut.

yeah, all his taste is in his mouth.

when i find my tape of the Rumble Fish soundtrack Copeland did, i'll make a copy for ya, unless you've already got it. i have Summers' first solo disc somewhere too.

[twonabomber]

Originally posted by Terry
Copeland, on tracks like "Spirits In The Material World" and "Demolition Man", doesn't even utilize the traditional snare/bass drum relationship for half of those tracks and those tunes cruise along like nobody's business.

repeating the bass line from Demolition Man too long makes my fingers sore, and it's not even that damn difficult. :D one of my favorite Police songs.

[Lou]

Even the Police hits weren't simple drumming. "Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic"--how about that signature cymbal thing he does in the beginning. Or "Don't Stand So Close To Me"--I'm always off a beat the first time it goes into the chorus--what a difficult rhythm there.

Another thing about Stew is the way he utilizes the cymbals. Alex's use of the cymbals is just this muddy whooshing sound whereas Stew plays them HARD, clean and a lot of times plays them more than he does the snare!

[Phil theStalker]

..Paul Cook did just wot he had t2o doo PERFECTLY..


:spank:

[rucalobe]

The best drummer between AVH and SC is obviously Copeland.

However, the best rock drummer ever is a tie between Neil Peart (Rush) and Bun E. Carlos (Cheap Trick). Different styles but the essence can't be matched by no other drummer in the business (in my humble opinion). ;D

[Phil theStalker]

So here we are in 2004 still talking about Stewart, Alex, and Paul the drummers of '78. Who's any good now? Nobody. Nobody has a "sense" of what's going on for the past 25 years. Billions of dollars later and rock and roll is as dead as Johnny Rotton said it was dead and "gay" (David Bowie, Elton John, etc.) in 1977. Sorry, those Back Street Boyz don't cut it. It would be nice to see a "movement" again in the art world of music where talent can be exposed. It's all corporate, it's all fascist, it's Bon Jovi "one world government" music. And the end is near. That's why we listened to these guys in the last movement. We knew this was coming. No future for me, no future for you. Party down and brag about how drunk you got.



:spank:

LOOK AT THIS FUCKING DRUMMER. DON'T WORRY ABOUT WHO'S BETTER. PLAY DRUMS...D-E-S-T-R-O-YYYYY.

Soiuxsie & the Banshees DEBUT with Sid Vicious as drummer boy

[Phil theStalker]

Originally posted by rucalobe
The best drummer between AVH and SC is obviously Copeland.

However, the best rock drummer ever is a tie between Neil Peart (Rush) and Bun E. Carlos (Cheap Trick). Different styles but the essence can't be matched by no other drummer in the business (in my humble opinion). ;D
The best is the worst.

Have you forgotten about "This Boy."

:spank:

[Phil theStalker]

Or "this girl."


:spank:

[Phil theStalker]

In my non-humble opinion The Kid is the best drummer.

I've heard him play. He's about 28 months old now.


:spank:

[Mattyboy]

Is this discussion a joke? Stews a great drummer. Alex actually became a great drummer around OU812 and after, in my opinion. About as good as it gets for rock.

Two totally different drummers. Two totally different interpretations of music and percussion. Both equally valid.

To equate Stewart Copeland with John Bonham? WTF? I'm a drummer as well. I've played for years in this country and others. To say that Stewart is closer to John Bonham than Alex is just silly, man. Stewart is a far more technical and percussive drummer. Name me a four on the floor Stewart Copeland song. Doesn’t happen. He may not even be able to play that way. I watched Carl Palmer try and play Touch and Go from the Emerson, Lake and Powell album. He couldn't play like Cozy Powell to save his life. Doesn't mean he's not great, just means he's not the first call guy for that kind of drumming.

Tell me Amsterdam isn't just a great rock drum song. Not possible. Poundcake. Me Wise Magic. On and on. He, like Tommy Lee, has matured into a great rock drummer. Great.


Alex may be a dick and a horrible, horrible guy but he can play some drums, yo.

Over and out.

[Tom Vu]

Supid question. Alex Van Halen of course. The Police aren't even metal. Geesh.

[Mattyboy]

Well, I just realized it was "in the 80"s". My bad. Disregard everything I said.

[nosuchluck]

stewart copeland all the way.
he's just cool.

[Golden AWe]

Originally posted by Matt White
Using that thesis, NOBODY here is gonna think SHEMP is good cause NONE of us listen to Van Hagar. ANd for good reason, they SUCK DOG BALLS!!!

Stewart Copeland could play SHEMP's shit with ONE hand tied behind his back. FACT. No other way to SPIN it.
FUCK SHEMP Van Halen!!!!

DAVE OR THE GRAVE BABY!!!!


and why the hell do you keep posting the same posts over and over again?

[Matt White]

Originally posted by Golden AWe
and why the hell do you keep posting the same posts over and over again?

Etc etc,etc,etc, irony.

DAVE OR THE GRAVE MOTHERFUCKERS!!!

[Golden AWe]

Originally posted by Matt White
Etc etc,etc,etc, irony.

DAVE OR THE GRAVE MOTHERFUCKERS!!!


you're pretty boring.

[Matt White]

Originally posted by Golden AWe
you're pretty boring.

Opinions vary. Additional data still forthcoming.

[Golden AWe]

now you sound like mr spock or hal-3000

well, both of them would be good options actually.

[jacksmar]

Rod Morgenstein was everywhere in the 80’s. Joel Rosenblatt was great through that time as well as Bill Bruford, Jeff Porcaro, Kenny Aronoff, and Chris Slade.

Alex was a little underrated but so was Terry Bozzio. And I don’t know how many remember Vinnie Colaiuta.

Stewart was better than Alex and still is but once again, guys like Peter Criss and Tommy Lee are going to get the headlines.

:)

[CROWBAR]

Even though the Police were pop, Copeland is better by far. Like someone else said, Alice is a simple 4/4 drummer. Even Bonzo said a year before his death that Copeland was the one to watch.

[Golden AWe]

i repeat

spock was amazing!


so was hal 3000, and he was more accurate than alex vh

[frenchie]

the best drummer was the one in the muppets show! everybody knows that, no???????

[jacksmar]

LOL


ANIMAL!!!!!!!

[frenchie]

yeahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

[Terry]

Originally posted by Lou
Even the Police hits weren't simple drumming. "Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic"--how about that signature cymbal thing he does in the beginning. Or "Don't Stand So Close To Me"--I'm always off a beat the first time it goes into the chorus--what a difficult rhythm there.

Another thing about Stew is the way he utilizes the cymbals. Alex's use of the cymbals is just this muddy whooshing sound whereas Stew plays them HARD, clean and a lot of times plays them more than he does the snare!


Even a track like Roxanne, where he comes in on the off-beat. Sounds a lot simpler than it is to execute properly. Copeland and Bonham have that in common ("Fool in the Rain", "The Crunge", "Can't Stand Losing You").

[frenchie]

steward copeland is an excellent drummer.he's also a good musician who workd on many soundtracks for movies in the 90's.alex is not so good

[cscmtp]

Stewart by a LANDSLIDE. The easiest thing for a drummer to do, is straight 4. Listen to 95% of what Alex does, its straight 4. Now go listen to ANY police album. Stewart almost NEVER played straight 4. He played his high hat and cymbals the way Neil Peart plays his toms. The best. period.

[Lou]

This thread kicks ass by the way, 5 star vote for Nitro Express!

I have "Ghost In The Machine" going right now...what a phenomenal album. I used to not care for this album but it grew on me in a big way and now I love it! "Too Much Information"...YEAH!

[Lou]

Originally posted by cscmtp
Stewart by a LANDSLIDE. The easiest thing for a drummer to do, is straight 4. Listen to 95% of what Alex does, its straight 4. Now go listen to ANY police album. Stewart almost NEVER played straight 4. He played his high hat and cymbals the way Neil Peart plays his toms. The best. period.

Yeah it never ceases to amaze me how Stew substitutes the cymbals for the snare and it still just sounds natural and keeps the beat perfectly. And he had quite a distinct tone on the cymbals too, which I kinda consider the hallmark of his playing. As I said in an earlier post, Alice just has this muddy, whooshing sound when he plays the cymbals.

[Rikk]

Originally posted by Lou
This thread kicks ass by the way, 5 star vote for Nitro Express!

I have "Ghost In The Machine" going right now...what a phenomenal album. I used to not care for this album but it grew on me in a big way and now I love it! "Too Much Information"...YEAH!

My favorite will always be ZENYETTA. I love all their work, but that album is the most consistent to me. It's funny that I've always looked down on GHOST IN THE MACHINE a bit...but it's one I really should re-discover!!

This IS a kick-ass thread.

[Bill Lumbergh]

Fuck, I still don't get it. Not looking to start shit here(with the exception of Max, fuck you! :D ), but when I hear the Police I want to puke. It just sounds.....I don't know STERILE is the word I think.........faceless, boring. Don't get me started on Sting solo.........rant over ,now go back to jerking each other off ;) .

[Lou]

I agree Sting solo is horrible and on my trading list, I now specify not to offer any Van Hagar or Sting solo bootlegs to me.

That's a shame though you're not into the Police. All three of them are very talented, jazz-based musicians and together they made some innovative, original and unique stuff. Name me one other band that sounds like The Police.

I'm torn between Reggatta de Blanc and Zenyatta as my favorite Police albums. I guess if I had to choose I'd go with Reggatta only because "Bring on the Night" is my favorite Police song. The first three songs on Zenyatta though, what a beginning to an album!

Anyway Rikk you should re-discover Ghost in the Machine. I used to get annoyed by it but upon listening to it again I realized how ambitious it was. The tour supporting it was also kick ass. I used to hate the horns backing a lot of the songs but now I love it. That was a wild tour!

[frenchie]

YES, THE POLICE WERE GREAT, ANDY SUMMERS WAS A GOOD GUITARIST TOO.

[Terry]

Originally posted by Bill Lumbergh
Fuck, I still don't get it. Not looking to start shit here(with the exception of Max, fuck you! :D ), but when I hear the Police I want to puke. It just sounds.....I don't know STERILE is the word I think.........faceless, boring. Don't get me started on Sting solo.........rant over ,now go back to jerking each other off ;) .


Not a big fan of Sting solo either. Dug the Police, though.

[ROTHandRoll]

Copeland by a long mile. He could run circles around shemp w/ just a 3-piece kit. Shemp surrounds himself w/ all this bullshit drums and doesn't play any of them---it's all for photographs. What a wuss

[Big Troubles]

I always liked Frank Beard from ZZ Top but that's just me.

[Big Troubles]

:D

[Big Troubles]

or

[Big Troubles]

better yet!

[Phil theStalker]

I vote Animal.

I wish I could play wit animal.

Animal.



:spank:

[Phil theStalker]

He's da best !


:spank:

[Phil theStalker]

Party Animal.

:spank:

[Big Troubles]

LOL not camera friendly though. The record company would never have the kind of faith in Animal like they would say a phil Collins or the first drummer from Rolling Stones. You know, the white guy with negro lips.

[Hecubus]

Originally posted by Red Rock
Alex is fucking awesome. He kicks anyone's ass. And if you don't see that, then youre a fucking ass.

Put him up against, Peart, dillweed.

No contest. Alex is good, but he's not worthy of changing Neil's drum heads.....

[Hecubus]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
Uhh hello? Last time I checked, the amount of albums sold does NOT make you a better drummer!
This thread is about who is the better drummer not who YOU think is the better band!

In a drumming duel Alex would make that newb from Police look like a 2 year old on a set of bongos.

Have you ever SEEN Copeland live?

Probably not.

[Lou]

Forgive my ignorance but who was James Brown's drummer back in the day, the guy who played "Funky Drummer"? Boy was that guy something. Alex isn't worthy of being in the same room with him.

[twonabomber]

Originally posted by Lou
I have "Ghost In The Machine" going right now...what a phenomenal album. I used to not care for this album but it grew on me in a big way and now I love it! "Too Much Information"...YEAH!

Ghost is probably my least favorite, even though Demolition Man is on it.

Sting's live Bring On The Night set isn't too bad. his solo songs got worse somewhere after Soul Cages...now he's Elton John.

[Robonez]

Originally posted by Snow Ho
you have got to be kidding me. alex is marginally influential at best as a drummer. this is almost as bad as comparing michael anthony to billy sheehan.

That's crap.

[Matt White]

Originally posted by Robonez
That's crap.

Maybe Crayolla?!?

[W.W.D.D.?]

i like stew

[W.W.D.D.?]

in classic vh shemp is the weakest link...goodbye.

[Lou]

I don't agree with that, I think MA is the weakest link.

[W.W.D.D.?]

ibyp... mikey make great harmonies with dave...mikey make cool ultra high screams with dave...mikey make great gymnastics prop for dave...mikey punch bass and smile

[Rikk]

Originally posted by twonabomber
Ghost is probably my least favorite, even though Demolition Man is on it.

Sting's live Bring On The Night set isn't too bad. his solo songs got worse somewhere after Soul Cages...now he's Elton John.

Yeah, you gotta admit that DREAM OF THE BLUE TURTLES is a pretty good album. There are some good songs there: RUSSIANS, FORTRESS AROUND YOUR HEART...

[Rikk]

Originally posted by W.W.D.D.?
ibyp... mikey make great harmonies with dave...mikey make cool ultra high screams with dave...mikey make great gymnastics prop for dave...mikey punch bass and smile

Yeah, it's a hard one to say. I love every member of classic VH as part of that band. The band would have lost more, though, IMO if Mikey were gone instead of Alex. Mikey's harmonies with Dave's voice...that was unbeatable. Listening to them together on ME WISE MAGIC was like the second coming of Christ.

[W.W.D.D.?]

you so damn right...you so damn right

[ROTHandRoll]

The current lineup are "missing links."

[Mattyboy]

"Rod Morgenstein was everywhere in the 80’s. Joel Rosenblatt was great through that time as well as Bill Bruford, Jeff Porcaro, Kenny Aronoff, and Chris Slade.

Alex was a little underrated but so was Terry Bozzio. And I don’t know how many remember Vinnie Colaiuta.

Stewart was better than Alex and still is but once again, guys like Peter Criss and Tommy Lee are going to get the headlines."

This is killing me, yo. Rod from the Dregs was "everywhere in the 80's"?

Joel Rosenblat? Joel F***ing Rosenblat? From Spro Gyro? WTF?

Bozzio underrated? The guy who played Black Page, underrated by who?

Remember Vinny Colaiuta? Why, has a gone on a trip somewhere? I could have sworn he's the same Vinny Colaiuta that played on all those Sting albums/tours, played all those sessions, played on the last Megadeath, is out on tour now with someone. Yeah, sure as shit, the very same. Go figure.

Please don't take this personally but did you just pick names from your Cd's or something? My brother, God bless you.

Over and out.

[DaveIsKing]

STEWART.

The Police fucking kick ass. Sting is an desert pussy now, but back in the day, they were fucking killer!

Hey, Dave ought to say FUCK YOU Van Halen, and go get Stewart and some killer guitarist and make another rocker. Two people driven like Dave and Stewart would kick ass

[Snow Ho]

Originally posted by DaveIsKing
STEWART.

The Police fucking kick ass. Sting is an desert pussy now, but back in the day, they were fucking killer!

Hey, Dave ought to say FUCK YOU Van Halen, and go get Stewart and some killer guitarist and make another rocker. Two people driven like Dave and Stewart would kick ass

:killer: now there's an idea!

[Matt White]

AVH? SHIT! That chick from the BANGLES was a better drumer than SHEMP VAN HALEN in the 80's!!!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA!!!!

[franksters]

STEWART COPELAND

WAY WAY WAY BETTER!!!!!

[Parnelly]

I dont think there is a real question of who was a better drummer. I personally believe it was Alex. The real question is who was the bigger fuckin idiot?

[Parnelly]

ALEX

[secrets]

The difference is that Alex is a drummer nothing more than that.

Stewart Copeland is a drummer, a percussionist, a composer and a song writer.

So there is no real comparison.

[Parnelly]

Well put.

[DavidLeeNatra]

Originally posted by secrets
The difference is that Alex is a drummer nothing more than that.

Stewart Copeland is a drummer, a percussionist, a composer and a song writer.

So there is no real comparison.

this is phil collins, too...but I'd prefer alex over collins... ;)

[academic punk]

Copeland. Which actually isn't a shot against Alex, it's simply that COpeland was one of the most innovative drummers of the 80s. His rhythm, his fills, even the tone of his snare were completely unique and identifiable.

Crap songwriter though.

[rocket]

Copeland is way more interesting than Alex. Plus he maintained his intewgrity by not selling out The Police. Alex can learn alot from him both musically and when it comes to art....


PS... Look at my member number.... I forgot how long ago I signed up here!!! It was just yesterday I was talking trash at slawterhouse.com...oh well......

[Rikk]

Both Copeland and Collins can play circles around Alexis.

[John Holmes]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
I see, the Police's 2 albums that anyone knows about inspired millions yet the decade of Van Hagar inspired no one. Gotcha, my bad.

I don't see any Police inspired artists anywhere.

Google search on "inspired by the Police": 507 hits.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22inspired+by+the+police%22

Google search on "inspired by Van Hagar":

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22inspired+by+Van+Hagar%22

"Your search - "inspired by Van Hagar" - did not match any documents"

[FORD]

Originally posted by Big Troubles
LOL not camera friendly though. The record company would never have the kind of faith in Animal like they would say a phil Collins or the first drummer from Rolling Stones. You know, the white guy with negro lips.

First drummer from the Rolling Stones??

Stones haven't had any other drummer than Charlie Watts since 1962.

And the white guy with the "negro lips" is the singer.

[aesop]

Originally posted by FORD
First drummer from the Rolling Stones??

Stones haven't had any other drummer than Charlie Watts since 1962.

And the white guy with the "negro lips" is the singer.

And their guitarist can still open bottle caps with his ribs...

[evans5150]

Originally posted by Rikk
Uh, dickhead, YOU brought up the fact that the Police had "two" albums that sold. I had to...uh...correct you. You want to bring up album sales, I'll call you on it. THE POLICE are WAY more popular than Van Hagar.

As for who would tear the other one up, Stewart would make mincemeat of Alex. It's pretty clear to me that you are not a drummer. And if you are, you can't be that good. Because if you could play any of Copeland's harder parts, you'd know how good he is.

Just The Facts:

According To the RIAA here are the album sales between the Police and Van Halen with Hagar (Not including any Best Of's):

Police: Synchronicity (8 million), Ghost In The Machine (3 million), Zenyatta Mondatta (2 million), Regatta De Blanca (1 million), Police Live (1 million), Outlandos D'Amour (1 million) For a total of:

16 million

Van Halen with Hagar: 5150 (6 million), OU812 (4 million), F.U.C.K. (3 million), Balance (3 million), Live: RHRN (2 million) For a total of:

18 million

This is even with Van Halen with Hagar having one less album than the Police.

evans5150

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by evans5150
Just The Facts:

According To the RIAA here are the album sales between the Police and Van Halen with Hagar (Not including any Best Of's):

Police: Synchronicity (8 million), Ghost In The Machine (3 million), Zenyatta Mondatta (2 million), Regatta De Blanca (1 million), Police Live (1 million), Outlandos D'Amour (1 million) For a total of:

16 million

Van Halen with Hagar: 5150 (6 million), OU812 (4 million), F.U.C.K. (3 million), Balance (3 million), Live: RHRN (2 million) For a total of:

18 million

This is even with Van Halen with Hagar having one less album than the Police.

evans5150

Oh Jesus! here come the SHEEP emigres'! The title of the thread is not Who sold more albums, Van Hagar or The Police. It's about who's a better fucking drummer!

Stuart Copeland is a better musician all around because he can, and has, compose(d) music.

He wrote some lesser known Police songs and has done soundtracks.:rolleyes:

[scam failin]

rikk.......i am not sure what your smokin' but i'll take thirty dollars worth.how about alex on OUTTA LOVE AGAIN VH 2 ? or ME WISE MAGIC? pretty tasty stuff.you all can hate and despise alex, but as a drummer he is damn good.certainly not the best..........but he's on da money.

[Lou]

I find that very hard to believe that Outlandos only sold one million copies. That can't be right.

[Figs]

Copland has a unique and interesting style, and is a more overall well-rounded musician & composer, but I think AVH plays drums better. AVH is a giant prick, but a damn good drummer.

[Rikk]

Originally posted by scam failin
rikk.......i am not sure what your smokin' but i'll take thirty dollars worth.how about alex on OUTTA LOVE AGAIN VH 2 ? or ME WISE MAGIC? pretty tasty stuff.you all can hate and despise alex, but as a drummer he is damn good.certainly not the best..........but he's on da money.

I didn't say he sucks. But dude is nowhere near the drummer. Trust me...take it from a drummer...good reggae, funk or jazz playing takes much more talent and way more practice to perfect than good hard rock drumming.

Alex is an exceptional hard rock drummer. But try and ask him to play something like ONE WORLD off the GHOST IN THE MACHINE album and he's look at you funny and start into a fast 4/4 beat.

[evans5150]

Originally posted by Lou
I find that very hard to believe that Outlandos only sold one million copies. That can't be right.

You can check it yourself:

www.riaa.com

Go to "searchable database" under the certification section.

[Rikk]

Originally posted by evans5150
Just The Facts:

According To the RIAA here are the album sales between the Police and Van Halen with Hagar (Not including any Best Of's):

Police: Synchronicity (8 million), Ghost In The Machine (3 million), Zenyatta Mondatta (2 million), Regatta De Blanca (1 million), Police Live (1 million), Outlandos D'Amour (1 million) For a total of:

16 million

Van Halen with Hagar: 5150 (6 million), OU812 (4 million), F.U.C.K. (3 million), Balance (3 million), Live: RHRN (2 million) For a total of:

18 million

This is even with Van Halen with Hagar having one less album than the Police.

evans5150

First off, the 16 million in sales for VAN HAGAR includes their live album. So that's six albums. THE POLICE also sold over a million copies of their live album. They've sold five million copies of their first GREATEST HITS set. Sorry, that counts. That is POLICE album sales. They've also had three other GREATEST HITS sets, but I have no idea what they sold.

As for the first few albums, I am sure some of those figures are off. OUTLANDOS has sold a lot more than one million copies. This was one of the most popular bands of the 80s. But even if your numbers are right, you lose. THE POLICE are way beyond 20 million.

[evans5150]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Oh Jesus! here come the SHEEP emigres'! The title of the thread is not Who sold more albums, Van Hagar or The Police. It's about who's a better fucking drummer!

Stuart Copeland is a better musician all around because he can, and has, compose(d) music.

He wrote some lesser known Police songs and has done soundtracks.:rolleyes:

Not a sheep here. Just a fan of both eras. Rikk had called someone on album sales and I was just setting the "record" straight so to speak. Like I said...just the facts.

And for the "record". I think Stu Copeland is a far better drummer than Alex overall. Alex is definitely no slouch.....but in terms of total package Stu is the man. But then again...you'll go ahead and make up what you want to hear.

[Lou]

I don't see where it says it sold 1 million. I see it was certified platinum in 1984, so to say it didn't sell any more copies in the last 20 years is ridiculous.

[Rikk]

Originally posted by Lou
I don't see where it says it sold 1 million. I see it was certified platinum in 1984, so to say it didn't sell any more copies in the last 20 years is ridiculous.

Good point.

Again, looking at albums sales from 27 years and not just six years, the POLICE catalog has to be at least at 30 million, for Christ's sake. I mean, just one of the Greatest Hits sets sold five million?? This band is so legendary, it's hilarious.

VAN HAGAR blows, and they definitely didn't (and especially now don't) sell albums the way THE POLICE did.

[evans5150]

Originally posted by Lou
I don't see where it says it sold 1 million. I see it was certified platinum in 1984, so to say it didn't sell any more copies in the last 20 years is ridiculous.

Are you not familiar with the RIAA's certifications? If an album goes GOLD it has sold 500,000 copies. The RIAA will certify it. When it goes PLATINUM it has sold 1 Million copies. The RIAA will certify it. For each million sold after that. So yes...Outlandos could have sold more than 1 Million copies total. They could very well have sold 900,000 copies between 1984 and now....but will not be certified Multi-Platinum (2 Million) copies until it sells that many.

The RIAA is not trying to cheat The Police. There are cert levels that are recognized. Just like 5150 could have sold close to 7 Million...but they are only certified at 6 Million until they actually do sell that 7 Millionth copy.

Understood?

[Rikk]

Originally posted by evans5150
Are you not familiar with the RIAA's certifications? If an album goes GOLD it has sold 500,000 copies. The RIAA will certify it. When it goes PLATINUM it has sold 1 Million copies. The RIAA will certify it. For each million sold after that. So yes...Outlandos could have sold more than 1 Million copies total. They could very well have sold 900,000 copies between 1984 and now....but will not be certified Multi-Platinum (2 Million) copies until it sells that many.

The RIAA is not trying to cheat The Police. There are cert levels that are recognized. Just like 5150 could have sold close to 7 Million...but they are only certified at 6 Million until they actually do sell that 7 Millionth copy.

Understood?

Actually, that's not true. The RIAA apparently can get completely backlogged in certification. I remember reading about how THE DOORS catalog hadn't been counted or certified in 10 years. And when it was, they ended up increasing some of the albums from platinum to quadruple platinum.:) Fact.

[evans5150]

Originally posted by Rikk
Good point.

Again, looking at albums sales from 27 years and not just six years, the POLICE catalog has to be at least at 30 million, for Christ's sake. I mean, just one of the Greatest Hits sets sold five million?? This band is so legendary, it's hilarious.

VAN HAGAR blows, and they definitely didn't (and especially now don't) sell albums the way THE POLICE did.


Umm...if you look at the RIAA's site you'll see that the album sales are tracked back to the beginning of The Police's recording career. They are tracked from then until now. The proof is there....not sure why you choose to believe otherwise.

[evans5150]

Originally posted by Rikk
Actually, that's not true. The RIAA apparently can get completely backlogged in certification. I remember reading about how THE DOORS catalog hadn't been counted or certified in 10 years. And when it was, they ended up increasing some of the albums from platinum to quadruple platinum.:) Fact.

Got Proof?

[Rikk]

Originally posted by evans5150
Got Proof?

Oh, gimme a break. Must I find the book I read this in?

I'll find some proof for you.

[evans5150]

Originally posted by Rikk
Oh, gimme a break. Must I find the book I read this in?

I'll find some proof for you.

Sounds good. If you have proof of that then that is a pretty interseting little tidbit. I'd be the first to say, "Hey...you're right" if it comes from a respectable source. I had a point and showed proof to back it up. Just like I can show you proof that CVH has sold more albums than Van Halen with Sammy Hagar. It's a fact. I like both eras. I have no problem with the fact that CVH is more popular than Hagar era VH.

Just some proof is all I ask. I hate to see statements with "FACT" stamped after them when the only proof is "I read somewhere".

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by evans5150
Not a sheep here. Just a fan of both eras. Rikk had called someone on album sales and I was just setting the "record" straight so to speak. Like I said...just the facts.

And for the "record". I think Stu Copeland is a far better drummer than Alex overall. Alex is definitely no slouch.....but in terms of total package Stu is the man. But then again...you'll go ahead and make up what you want to hear.

Got'cha'. Thank you for clarifying and I agree totally.

[scam failin]

rikk, about copeland's jazz playing i have no idea what he is capable of there.and your probably no doubt right,alex can not play jazz.i have been known to play alittle drums myself.and know that jazz is another universe.i heard neil peart trying to play jazz on a buddy rich tribute cd.sure didn't inpress me much.no one was better in the hard rock arena EVER than ian paice.listen to 'made in japan'.no over dubs,no double bass.drum solo in 'the mule' ,just four words..........phe......nom......en.......al...... ....i'm through.

[Rikk]

Originally posted by evans5150
Sounds good. If you have proof of that then that is a pretty interseting little tidbit. I'd be the first to say, "Hey...you're right" if it comes from a respectable source. I had a point and showed proof to back it up. Just like I can show you proof that CVH has sold more albums than Van Halen with Sammy Hagar. It's a fact. I like both eras. I have no problem with the fact that CVH is more popular than Hagar era VH.

Just some proof is all I ask. I hate to see statements with "FACT" stamped after them when the only proof is "I read somewhere".

No offense, dude, but it's pretty common industry knowledge that the RIAA does not certify shit right away but are actually called in to do it. They don't sit around counting albums day by day and certifying shit as it comes up. That's why so many things are inconsistent. Furthermore, for years it was based on initial store shipments, which doesn't take into account unsold albums and cut-outs.

Face it, you're on a Roth site trying to prove that Van Hagar is a more popular band than one of the most popular music phenomenons of the 1980s (THE POLICE), a band that is still super-popular today, still sells tons of records and still is played on the radio, unlike VAN HAGAR. I will get the quote for you later. But I will also say that I already proved my point...five million Greatest Hits records (on just their first Greatest Hits) and over a million of their live album already brings them above Van SHagar in spades.

Anyway, still enjoying the debate.

[Jérôme Frenchise]

Well, all right! Drumming is getting farther and farther away...

Here is the opinion of a gilden-age VH and Diamond fan from Western Europe (where the Police sold much more than in the US):

- Al VH is a very good drummer, but Great Van Halen's foundations used to lay on Dave's and Eddie's shoulders. I think despite the first 6 albums are my favourite garden among all the music I know, VAN HALEN DIDN'T HAVE THE RHYTHM SECTION THEY USED TO DESERVE.
Yes, buddies, the DLR period could even have been greater!

- To me, Stu Copeland stands as one of the biggest. I am most respectful of his very personal and catchy approach and masterful drumming, his fillings and use of sound space. He is an outstanding instrumentist, you only would deny it if you had mashed potatoes stuck in your ears!
Moreover, he surely is a lot more of a nice guy than gangster Al VH...

By the way, talking about great drummers, what do you think about the following:
Bill BRUFORD (in King Krimson), and unlevelable Keith MOON?

Thinking back of it, maybe true VH had better have square and discreet bass and drum players, so as to balance with the extrordinaire singer and firework-guitarist.... Otherwise it would have been too hard for listeners to seize.
Now I believe so.

[Nickdfresh]

Plus Copeland would kick Sting in the balls every once in a while.

[Lou]

Originally posted by Jérome from Fra
Here is the opinion of a gilden-age VH and Diamond fan from Western Europe (where the Police sold much more than in the US)

There's no doubt about that. Almost all of the Police bootleg collectors reside in Western Europe. Very few in the United States, and the ones in the United States that have substantial collections got them from Europeans.

Lou

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Plus Copeland would kick Sting in the balls every once in a while.

That's the funniest thing I've read in awhile. :D Where'd you read that?

my two cents:

Alex was awesome for what he was meant for, but Stew is in his own world.

I skipped pages 2-4 but Oysterhead anyone? Man there were some badass songs on that CD! And the pictures of stew, trey, and les on the cover still make me laugh.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005OL93.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[degüello]

Ha, that's great.

Lou, as soon as I saw the title of this thread, I was instantly about to PM the link to it to you , over at ddlr.com, but of course you were already here and deeply involved... ;)

[degüello]

Haven't read all ten pages of this motherfucker, but I can say that while Alex was an integral part of the VH sound and a decent and creative hard rock drummer (possibly and likely aided a lot in writing his parts by brother ED), and while Alex did have some cool idiosyncratic elements to his overall approach, Stewart Copeland was in another league entirely, both musically and creatively.

But, it's apples and oranges, really.

[Lou]

It is apples and oranges. I think as an overall musician, it's not even close, Stewart Copeland is light years ahead of Alex.