Is Alex considered a great drummer by drummers

[monkeythe]

I always read on these forms that Alex is a great drummer. Now I am not a drummer and don't know how he is judged by drummers and if he has received any drumming awards.

However, my favorite band (since VH has been defunct for 20 years) is Dream Theater. The things that their drummer, Mike Portnoy does I find to be on a different level than Alex is capable of. I also feel that Alex wasn't the best drummer ROth had, as some of the parts Bissonette did on Skyscraper I don't think Alex would be capable of either.

If a drummer could reply to this, and especially if they are familiar with Portnoy's work, I'd greatly appreciate an answer to this question I've wondered about for a while.

[pete]

VH is rock-n-roll. Dream theatre is progressive music. It's very technical. What Vh did was create music that was more complex than rock music up to that point. But what made it so commercially appealing was the simple rock structure of the songs. Ed progressed rock structure at that point but, although it was complex it was 3 chords in basic structure. Rock music is simple. It's chuck Berry, The Ramones. The songs are very simple. That's why Vai is not a hit. People want songs they can easily remember. "Up for breakfast" is like that. But U2 Vertigo works within the rock-n-roll structure and yet is cool. to be continued

[pete]

The point is Alex is a simple 4/4 drummer

[monkeythe]

How would he rate against other simple 4/4 drummers? Is he a great talent in that class or is he riding off the coattails of the greatness of Eddie and Dave?

[Firebrand]

...if you doubt for one second how incredibly sharp he is listen to Light Up the Sky Again. Unreal.

The rhythms he and Ed come up with freak me out...some of the best stuff is on Fair Warning.

[pete]

I hate to say - He doesn't rate.

[badhorsie]

I dont think too many people care for him as a drummer. Everyone in the band gets outshined by Eddie's contributions .

What he plays for the songs usually fits nicely but its not in the same league as other drummers out there.

[TongueNGroove]

Alex is an awesome drummer. Listen to Hot for teacher or better yet Pleasure Dome.

Alex is a rock drummer so you can't expect him to be doing all that progressive stuff on tape. However, I bet behind closed doors that dude can do anything you can imagine. For a "RocK" drummer I think he is top of the line. Nobody in top 40 rock even comes close.

[TwoFoolsAMinute]

Al is not a great drummer.

[Panamark]

Unfortunately any musical talent Alice may possess, is lost in the
haze of the asshole aura, that permanently floats around his head.

[Splooge]

Originally posted by pete
VH is rock-n-roll. Dream theatre is progressive music. It's very technical. What Vh did was create music that was more complex than rock music up to that point. But what made it so commercially appealing was the simple rock structure of the songs. Ed progressed rock structure at that point but, although it was complex it was 3 chords in basic structure. Rock music is simple. It's chuck Berry, The Ramones. The songs are very simple. That's why Vai is not a hit. People want songs they can easily remember. "Up for breakfast" is like that. But U2 Vertigo works within the rock-n-roll structure and yet is cool. to be continued

Pete "Up For Breakfast"?

Isn't there a difference between simple and simpleton?

[Wayne L.]

Alex is a great rock drummer in his own right who is highly underrated for some reason even though he kicks ass more so than any drummers after the VH explosion like Tico Torres, Tommy Lee & Rikki Rocket.

[Big Train]

The great debate here isn't if he did, but can he, have the same level of chops the usual suspects have (ie. Peart, portnoy). Those drummers in the progressive style make music that is more akin to engineering. Complex for the sake of being complex. Alex plays what fits the song, more of a "groove" player.

If the question is where or not he can do it, I would say yea he can. I doubt his ability to swing, but to play complex patterns with ease (ala progressive drummers), no doubt.

[diamond den™]

How many Drummers on this site can play as good as Alex Van Halen????

I know of only one and that is Ozzy Fudd :)

That guy is a fucking Genius :)

[saint]

Even though I hate to admit it the guy really can play the 4/4 beat and he does it really well. I have to say that his asshole appearance really makes it hard for me to admit but on the classic 6-pack he really contributes.

[saint]

Originally posted by Firebrand
...if you doubt for one second how incredibly sharp he is listen to Light Up the Sky Again. Unreal.

I did 1,2,3,4 1,2,3,4 1,2,3,4 there is nothing to it he slaps the high-hat silly as usually


The rhythms he and Ed come up with freak me out...some of the best stuff is on Fair Warning.

[Antman]

Al is considered by many to be a great big prick. Drummers, guitarists, plumbers, OBGYNs, etc. all share this sentiment.

[bueno bob]

Well, coming from a few folks I know, the general consensus is that Alex is a good, solid drummer but nothing to really write home about. His major strength is his knowledge of basics and concepts, but that relegates him to the playing field of "Text Book Drumming".

Or so my buddies say :)

[ELVIS]

I don't know if you people know what you're listening to...

Alex is an incredible drummer and in integral part of the =VH= sound...

Pete, you lost me with those comments...:confused:

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by ELVIS
I don't know if you people know what you're listening to...

Alex is an incredible drummer and in integral part of the =VH= sound...

Pete, you lost me with those comments...:confused:

Well, I hope I didn't get mistaken. Alex is a solid drummer, but in talking with a buddy of mine who's done gigging with several larger bands (some of which have recorded) over the state of Van Halen in general, his opinion was that Alex was a good, solid drummer, and those were his best strengths...but he wasn't any sort of fulcrum point or ultimate drummer that will be remembered years down the road as being a leader in the industry.

The topic was "How do Professional Drummers view Alex", and since my buddy is really the only professional drummer I know, I just thought I'd share his opinion.

On a personal note, I think Alex is a damn good percussionist and very smart musically. As a human being, I don't think he's anything special, but that wasn't the question :)

[badhorsie]

I dont believe anyone here is denying Alex's influence or ability to play in the songs he has performed on. I think we can all agree without Alex the songs would be pretty different without him.

He's definitely great at what he does but he isnt in the same league as some of the "virtuoso" or 'legendary" players.

[bueno bob]

True. I'd rank Tommy Aldridge, Cozy Powell, Carl Palmer, Neil Peart, Dennis Wilson, Keith Moon, Carmine Appice, so on and so forth in the "legendary" catagory...when Alex hangs up his sticks for the last time, at that point, I'll probably reconsider my stance, along with a lot of other people.

[Mattyboy]

Tommy Aldridge, great drummer. But kind of sticks to what he knows best, ya know? Doesn't go out of that box. And looks like he's about to fall off his stool at any minute. He a fairly small guy man. Great on alot of albums. Check out the Ted Nugent live album recently released.

Cozy, now that guy was another great player, for what he did. I'm a huge Cozy fan. But he kinda had his one big lick, a double bass quad deal he did. Which was great, but he seemed somewhat limited in that regard. Bear in mind he's one of the reason I play drums. Ever see his 1812 Overture solo? Just F***ing great and overwhelming. Remember the flames, if you saw it? Rainbow Live is a classic album.

Carl Palmer. Great for what he's done. A far more technical drummer

Neil Peart. I used to have a poster of him over my bed that I would pray to during the 2112 period. Ground breaking, great drummer. Classic stuff.

Dennis Wilson. No, really? My guess is it was all Hal Blaine, a studio drummer at the time, not Dennis.

Keith Moon. Expanded the art of drumming with his hit the shit out of everything approach. Made drums more of a major player in music, I think.

Carmine. F***ing great. Met him at the first Zildjian Day in LA in 1980, not that he would remember. A tremendous drummer who has been limited by his musical associations at times. But about as good as it gets.

Alex. Was a good drummer. Decent. Became a great drummer with just great drum sounds. Remember he used to have a great kick and snare sound, but crappy toms (single headed, no resonance) but moved to a great, big, broad drum sound and great playing. He is world class. A dick, apparently, but a great drummer who will be remembered as a defining drummer in the genre, I think.

[famac]

For me, the drummer is an essential part of a rock group. His sound and feel determine whether a group rocks or whether they just grind through the beat. For example, John Bonham was essential to the Zeppelin sound - his drums have as much of a voice as any of the other members of the group.

Alex Van Halen deserves one credit: he has a very unique snare tone. I don't know whether Ted Templemen created this tone, or whether Alex did. I guess listening to the Gene Simmons demos would answer this question.

But beyond his snare tone, Alex is nothing special. Watch him stuggle through his drums rolls during 5150 on Live Withou A Net. It's embarassing. Alex also lays on the crash a little much for my tatse, but this may a technique he aquired in Van Halen's early days to flesh out the sound of a three piece group.

In any case, he's been keeping a pretty regular beat on Sam's ass for the last few months.

[Thetruthbaby]

I would say Alex is considered to be a very good drummer but "great" might depend on who you ask and how big of a VH fan they are. He's certainly not looked at (in a historical sense) like Tommy Aldridge, Carmine Appice, Keith Moon, Bonham or Ginger Baker. And technically speaking he's nowhere near as talented as guys like Bozzio or Donati. I think Alex has done some fine work on record though. I wouldn't say he's a drumming legend or anything. His status as a musician is more from the fact the he's a member of a legendary group.

[DrGrafenberg]

Ok for all your drummer needs check out...
http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Alex_Van_Halen.html
Lots of video clips etc
btw Ian Paice, John Bonham & Keith Moon are/were the best ROCK drummers in the world.
& Neil Peart is the best technician of the skins ever, period!
although I am not too shabby at thumping the tubs either :D

If you want to see something mind blowing tho!
check out Tony Royster Jnr. There is a clip of a solo floating around (kazaa) when he was just 12...Amazing!

[BigDaddyD]

Originally posted by Wayne L.
Alex is a great rock drummer in his own right who is highly underrated for some reason even though he kicks ass more so than any drummers after the VH explosion like Tico Torres, Tommy Lee & Rikki Rocket.

Are you on crack? Tommy Lee is a phenomenal drummer. Rikki Rocket is not even a decent drummer. Alex couldn't hold Tommy's jock...no pun intended.

[Thetruthbaby]

Witn all due respect Tommy Lee is not a better player than Alex. Tommy Lee is as much a showman as anything else. He can play but he's not a big influence on most rock drummers. When I was at PIT I can truly say I never met 1 drummer who considered T Lee to be a big influence. And he totally ripped Tommy Aldridge off with most of his showmanship. I guess I should give him some credit for admitting he was a huge Aldridge fan (back when he made the cover for Modern Drummer on Theatre Of Pain) but to say he's better than Alex is stretching it big time. I've seen TLee multiple times and heard all of the Crue's albums and nothing he's ever done impressed me that much. It's all simple drum work. HFTeacher alone stands above anything TLee ever did (and I'm not talking about the over-dubbed intro either).

[Terry]

As far as technical ability in the context of the rock arena, AVH is above competent. Was able to shine at times, but I never heard anyone back in the day say Alex was an amazing drummer, or heard drummers I knew speak of Alex in the same terms as I heard guitar players talk about Eddie. AVH got more recognition for the size of his drum kit than anything he did on it.

Is he capable of doing more than what can be heard on record or on live boots? Who knows?

Wouldn't put him in my top ten, or even 20, of all time-favorite drummers. Same goes for MA and bassists, although classic VH easily makes my top 5. Interesting juxtaposition. Guess Ed and Dave carried more than their fair share of the load in terms of making classic VH timeless (too bad the royalties aren't reflective of that).

[BigDaddyD]

Originally posted by Thetruthbaby
Witn all due respect Tommy Lee is not a better player than Alex. Tommy Lee is as much a showman as anything else. He can play but he's not a big influence on most rock drummers. When I was at PIT I can truly say I never met 1 drummer who considered T Lee to be a big influence. And he totally ripped Tommy Aldridge off with most of his showmanship. I guess I should give him some credit for admitting he was a huge Aldridge fan (back when he made the cover for Modern Drummer on Theatre Of Pain) but to say he's better than Alex is stretching it big time. I've seen TLee multiple times and heard all of the Crue's albums and nothing he's ever done impressed me that much. It's all simple drum work. HFTeacher alone stands above anything TLee ever did (and I'm not talking about the over-dubbed intro either).

I respectfully disagree. I think AVH is a good drummer....just not a great one. I would have to agree that Tommy is also a good drummer, not a great one. What he does have over AVH is his showmanship. Other than light his gong on fire and looking like Corky from Life Goes On, Alex has no showmanship.

My biggest problem is with the comparison to Rikki Rockett who is below average at best.

[cscmtp]

I hate to give Alex any credit, because he is clearly a bitter dick, but yes, he's a good drummer. Great, NO. Neil Peart, Jon Bonham, Stewart Copeland, those are GREAT drummers. Tommy Lee, Alex, Nick Menza, good drummers. But i do think Alex's solos have ALWAYS been crappy. Was never once impressed with his routine. Starting slow, with one hand, speeding up real fast, eventually rolling with two. Big freakin deal. :rolleyes:

[Robonez]

Here Alex gets a mention by a few professional drummers:

Frankie Banali:
”.. Alex is a great drummer and a very nice guy..”
http://www.frankiebanali.com/faq8.html


Dale Salive (Uncle Sid):
“..For me as a drummer, some of my biggest influences are Keith Moon, John Bonham, Neil Peart, Alex Van Halen, Mitch Mitchell, Bill Ward, Tommy Aldridge and Buddy Rich..”
http://www.getreadytorock.com/rising_stars/uncle_sid.htm



Scott Travis (Judas Priest):
Influences: “..Ringo, obviously, because he played in the Beatles. People like Ian Paice from Deep Purple, John Bonham, of course, Alex Van Halen, Tommy Aldridge, Neil Peart, all the standard rock icons that everyone always mentions..”
http://www.drums.com/interviews/scott.html



Nigel Glockler (Saxon):
“..there are som superb players out there...Chester Thompson, Alex Van Halen and Bill Bruford..”
http://dmme.net/interviews/glockler.html


Ian Haugland (Europe):
-Rate the following drumers on a scale of 1 to 10. 1 being a total joke, and 10 being a God like drummer.
Tico Torres = 8 Great solid, hard hitting, (goalkeeper) kind a drummer.
Tommy Lee =8 for his drumming , -10 for his personality!
Lars Ulrich= 6 not my kind of favorite drummer, but he seem to be a very important part of the metallica songs and their sound, so I vould give him a 10! as a bandmember.
Mike Portnoy= 4 Yeah I know that his a fucking technical expert! Who cares… Where´s the groove??
Rikki Rocket= 1 stiff as a corpse!
Alex Van Halen= 10 Awsome hard rock drummer with the right attitude both musicaly and personally.
http://www.gdesigners.com/europe/iani.htm

[djhbk]

C....U....N.....T.......



but he is an okay drummer

[Thetruthbaby]

I'm surprised any drummer who knows what they're doing would rate T Lee along with Alex. I've seen the Crue 4 times over the years, last time in 98'. I've never been that impressed at all with Lee. In the 80's you had to be able to play double bass and have a certain amount of chops to get by. Lee always just had average chops. Solo's were always just some very simple double bass and quadruplet rolls. Nothing difficult at all. He used showmanship more than ability to impress audiences that didn't know any better. Alex is not in Scott Travis or Mikkey Dee's league when it comes to technique, but I have had to do a double take a few times over the years when listening to Alex on VH's recorded work to figure out what he was doing. I've never had to do that with anything Lee has ever done. Very simple straight ahead heavy rock drumming. There were a multitude of heavy rock players who were head and shoulders above T Lee in the 80's including Greg Bissonette. I'm not saying T Lee has no talent, that would be unfair. But he's average if you're a serious player. And Alex is a better player. Even a simple technique like "displacement" is something that I'll bet Lee would have trouble with. Alex is actually strong with this and uses it often. Lee is just not that talented. Or if he is he hides it extremely well.

[Terry]

Originally posted by Thetruthbaby
I'm surprised any drummer who knows what they're doing would rate T Lee along with Alex. I've seen the Crue 4 times over the years, last time in 98'. I've never been that impressed at all with Lee. In the 80's you had to be able to play double bass and have a certain amount of chops to get by. Lee always just had average chops. Solo's were always just some very simple double bass and quadruplet rolls. Nothing difficult at all. He used showmanship more than ability to impress audiences that didn't know any better. Alex is not in Scott Travis or Mikkey Dee's league when it comes to technique, but I have had to do a double take a few times over the years when listening to Alex on VH's recorded work to figure out what he was doing. I've never had to do that with anything Lee has ever done. Very simple straight ahead heavy rock drumming. There were a multitude of heavy rock players who were head and shoulders above T Lee in the 80's including Greg Bissonette. I'm not saying T Lee has no talent, that would be unfair. But he's average if you're a serious player. And Alex is a better player. Even a simple technique like "displacement" is something that I'll bet Lee would have trouble with. Alex is actually strong with this and uses it often. Lee is just not that talented. Or if he is he hides it extremely well.

Agreed.

Lee's more notable more his celebrity factor than his drumming. Sure, he can twirl his sticks while he plays, but just a case of style over substance. Kept the beat, hit the skins hard, but aren't these just things you'd expect from any rock drummer?

Nothing exceptional.

[GAR]

Alex is DEFINATELY among the greatest drummers AND comedians IMO. I mean: look at the choice of staffing in Gary Cherone and his lack of styling.. the guy can't even sing Mean Street without lisping it the fuck up!

Why choose a dude who can't even fucking talk American English right?

[DavidLeeNatra]

alex. who is a cunt first...is a good drummer who will be mostly remembered for his snare sound and four bass drums...and for being a cunt...

[pete]

When I tell my drummer to do AVH. He loosens the hi-hat!!! LOL

psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-psh-

[DavidLeeNatra]

Originally posted by pete
When I tell my drummer to do AVH. He loosens the hi-hat!!! LOL

psh-psh-

:D

elvis is not amused... :elvis:

[ROTHandRoll]

AVH is a legend.....................(in his own fucked mind)

[DrGrafenberg]

I used to do a drum fill that went like this...
Hess, Hess, Hess, Himmler, Himmler, Himmler, burn the babies in the gas oven.
(i think only drummers will get that)

[Matt White]

subjective, objective, rejected, protected.
"...as it ever was...."

[dave_is_vh]

Most rock drummers are mediocre, as Al is. There is only one Neil Peart.

[Warham]

...

[Mattyboy]

You know, the thing that concerns me about this discussion is that it seems to focus on technical ability over musical ability. There is a huge difference between the two. Even the PIT guy seems focused on technical stuff. Which is the curse of drummers. Heck, isn't PIT founded by Jeff Pocaro's dad? Wasn't Jeff the master of the groove? A guy who never even did solos? If he did do them it was reluctantly. Remember the sound sheet he did for modern Drummer years and years ago? It was a groove. Not even a solo.

My experience is when I was young it was all generally about guys who played alot and fast and I had a tendency to reject those who did otherwise. Then as I grew and matured I started to see the value in the musical approach to a situation. An example of my own struggle with this would be my fixation with Neil Peart as a kid. Mid, late seventies. I remember going to see Rush with special guest from Australia AC/DC. Might have been 1978 or so. We were Peart fans, he was the king. Period. AC/DC comes out and we think this drummer is horrible and this band is bubble gum rock. They were booed off the stage.

Well, I clearly missed my first chance to really "get" what Phil Rudd was all about although I got it later. He is the perfect guy for that band, and has played some of the all time classic grooves in Rock. And they aren't busy, complicated approaches he has. And yet, perfect. Neither Chris Slade or Simon Wright came close to fitting into that band the way Phil did. Simon was close but still not there. And Phil is now deferred to by other drummers, as he should be. It's not easy to pull off Back in Black and make it right, man. And alot of people can't come close.

What about Richie Hayward of Little Feat. Peart has acknowledged the fact that his struggle is to be able to play like Richie. It's one of the reasons he spent time with Freddie Gruber (a very famous drum teacher). Now Richie can play fast, and alot if he has to, but he doesn't choose to all the time. He is one of the true Kings of the Groove. I double dare anyone to try and pull off half of what he plays. To cop his feel is tremendously hard.

Which brings me to Tommy Lee. To me he is another guy who was a pretty good drummer for most of his career and then he just came into his own. There are things that are on the Motley Crue album with John Corobi singing that are f***ing beautiful. And, frankly, if that was my playing on that album I'd truly be proud of my contribution to the instrument. That's a world class effort on there man.

You know, I'm 42. I've been playing a long time. I'm very fortunate to have played drums alot of years all over the US, parts of Europe. I don't know it all. I can't play it all. And it just seems to me the focus was on the wrong issue in this discussion.

Over and out.