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4moreyears
11-02-2004, 02:49 PM
"IF you want to be president, you have to talk to everybody in America, and that is what we are going to do," Sen. John Kerry declared last July, when he spoke before the NAACP. It was a dig against President George W. Bush, who had declined an invitation to speak to that organization.

But there's no way Kerry will ever speak to America's 1.2 million Vietnamese-Americans, most of whom live in California. Many of California's Vietnamese-Americans will be in Washington, D.C., today to join with Vietnam Veterans Against Kerry, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and many thousands of other veterans in a nationwide protest.




Little Saigon, which straddles Garden Grove and Westminster in Orange County, is the largest Asian community outside of Asia. A Vietnam War memorial stands there, featuring a statue of a South Vietnamese and an American soldier, depicting U.S.-South Vietnam kinship. Some 70,000 Vietnamese-Americans live there, serving as an epicenter for the half-million Vietnamese-Americans who live in California.

When a Little Saigon store owner put a picture of Ho Chi Minh in his window in 1999, it triggered 50 days of large-scale demonstrations that made international news. "The anti-communist sentiment in this community is as strong, if not stronger, than anywhere in the world," says Garden Grove Police Chief Joseph Polisar. "The chances of John Kerry coming here are slim to none, and it probably would require a substantial police presence."

The Swift Boat Veterans have raised serious questions about Kerry's 1971 statements about American troops. Just as bad, however, were his naive statements about the enemy - an issue that has largely been ignored by the media.

As a star of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Kerry preached that the Vietnamese communists were not repressive totalitarians like the Soviets or Chinese. The Viet Cong were hippie rice farmers who just wanted to hold hands and sing "Kumbaya." They were the nice communists. America, meanwhile, was an imperialist oppressor.

Millions of boomers bought into this terrible lie.

Kerry lionized Ho Chi Minh, ignored Soviet support of the NVA and accused the U.S. of being "paranoid about the so-called communist monolith." Asked by a questioning senator in 1971 what would be the effects of an immediate U.S. withdrawal from South Vietnam, Kerry responded: "Having done what we have done to that country, we have an obligation to offer sanctuary to the perhaps 2,000, 3,000 people who might face political assassination or something else."

That same week, he appeared on the Dick Cavett show. "There'd be no interest on the part of the Vietnamese to start massacring people after the U.S. has pulled out," Kerry told Cavett.

To this day, Kerry has never disavowed or apologized for those statements. Kerry has never admitted how dead wrong he was.

As in 3 million dead.

After the U.S. withdrew from Saigon on April 30, 1975, 750,000 Vietnamese were forced into re-education camps. Many did not survive. Some 130,000 took to boats and 1 million more fled overland. Next door, the Khmer Rouge claimed 2 million lives in the Killing Fields. The plight of the boat people was an unspeakable nightmare.

Lac Nguyen, director of the nonprofit Vietnamese Community of Southern California, is typical of many Orange County refugees. He served in the South Vietnamese government and as an officer in the army. After the fall of Saigon, he spent three years in jail and labor camps, as did others in his family. His father and five uncles were all killed by the communists.

"I am one of the boat people," Nguyen says. "We don't feel happy with Mr. John Kerry. The majority of Vietnamese refugees here are survivors of communist oppression. We all have family members who were killed or spent years in prison. If John Kerry comes here, he will see our reaction. And he will see it elsewhere, in New York, Boston, Florida as well."

Van Tran, another refugee, is a Garden Grove councilman and GOP candidate for a California Assembly seat in this fall's election. He is expected to win that post, largely due to support from the Vietnamese community. "As far as the Vietnamese are concerned," says Tran, "John Kerry is in the same league with Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden. Actually, he's more dangerous because he's running for president. There is more than an attitude of nonsupport for Kerry. It's personal for them."

Kerry has never attempted to speak to a group of Vietnamese-Americans, says Tran. Nor has he ever apologized for the untrue statements he made during the war. Jane Fonda at least made a half-hearted apology, but not the new JFK. "He's too arrogant for that," says Tran. "Lobbyists have told me that talking to Kerry's staff on issues related to Vietnam, you might as well talk to ... the Vietnamese embassy."

Another refugee, Dan Tran (no relation to Van), is a NASA engineer and president of the Vietnam Human Rights Project and spokesman for Vietnamese Americans Against John Kerry. "We (Vietnamese-Americans) are all against the communists," says Tran, "while Mr. Kerry seems like he loves them for some reason."

VAAJK is planning numerous demonstrations against Kerry during the upcoming election campaign. Back in July, during the Democratic convention in Boston, it joined with the Vietnam Veterans Against Kerry and the Boston Vietnamese community in hosting a four-day conference on Vietnam, with seminars by experts in all areas of the conflict. It was, perhaps, the ultimate "Vietnam teach-in."

Dan Tran believes Kerry has underestimated the impact Vietnamese- Americans will have on the election. Half of our nation's 1.2 million Vietnamese-Americans live in California, a state widely considered not to be in play.

"Kerry doesn't believe there are enough in California to sway the vote," says Tran, who thinks differently, especially if Bush gets a boost in California from Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. "I think Kerry and his campaign manager have made a very wrong assumption. Kerry went after the Cubans in Miami but he thinks the Vietnamese won't make a difference there. He's wrong. In 2000, only 500 votes made the difference. So the 20,000 Vietnamese-Americans in Florida can make the difference, as well as in other states like Arizona and New Mexico, where it's a very tight race."

Nickdfresh
11-02-2004, 03:22 PM
Oh ya', it was all Kerry's fault. I suppose none of those Vietnamese refugees were related to the corrupt Siagon regime or the cowardly, ineffectual ARVN that collapsed the minute that the Americans left. It was all a Kerry Commie conspiracy! What truthful, informed, and sophisticated thinking. Those people are refugees because THEY LOST the Vietnamese Civil War, not Kerry!

Seshmeister
11-02-2004, 04:00 PM
Thanks Nick you saved me 5 minutes by posting for me...:)

Big Train
11-02-2004, 05:09 PM
So fuckin what? if 1 is, or 10 are, or a hundred. How the fuck does that change a single material fact about the argument Kerry helped their oppressors...you guys are fucking wacky..

Nickdfresh
11-02-2004, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
So fuckin what? if 1 is, or 10 are, or a hundred. How the fuck does that change a single material fact about the argument Kerry helped their oppressors...you guys are fucking wacky..

But Bush really took them on when he was shitting his flight suit in Texas?!?

Thanks Daddy for getin' me outta' the War you and I support. HE HE HE HE

4moreyears
11-02-2004, 06:01 PM
But Bush really took them on when he was shitting his flight suit in Texas?!?

That means what about John Kerry and his track record with enemy countries?

JH

Nickdfresh
11-02-2004, 06:27 PM
John Kerry killed the enemy and then realized, the war was unwinnable and needlessly causing the deaths of thousands. He then faced down a Nixon Administration (and this has been proven by recently released WHITE HOUSE TRANSCRIPTS) was sending American soldiers to their deaths knowing Vietnam was going down the tubes once the U.S pulled out. He did this to insure that South Vietnam did not fall until after he was re-elected in 1972. But maybe you think it is patriotic to send Americans to their death for political calculations (not victory or security), as long as it suits your beloved Republican party.

Kerry has been the victim of a bullshit smear campaign that I believe started with the COINTEL program in the early 70' and was revived by the Swiftboat Vets for Horseshit because they had an ax to grind over Kerry's anti-war comments.

The head Swift Boat vet, who was awarded in the very same actions he questioned Kerry over, later worked for the Nixon White House. Kerry's comments that were mostly true if exaggerated (both by Kerry and later those that took them out of context for dramatic affect). Only the most partisan of assholes would say that no atrocities were committed in Vietnam. And anyone who gives serious consideration to the SBVT POW charges is stupid or full of shit!

Oh by the way. Your little AWOL Bushie later attacked a true American hero/former POW & Senator John McCain (R AZ). The thrust of Bush's anti-McCain attack ads were that McCain was unfit for the Presidency because he was still traumatized over his years in NV POW camps. I guess Bush is all about supporting veterans, huh?

Maybe that's why McCain and Kerry are close friends and Kerry wanted McCain to be his running mate (my pipe dream). So please don't talk to me about Bush's moral superiority over his (lack of) service record during the Vietnam era. He and his Republican Attack Machine lackeys are a bunch of phoney, self-serving hypocrites wrapping themselves in the flag, who will soon be unemployed God-willing.

Big Train
11-02-2004, 06:33 PM
Bullshit.

First, nobody is discussing ANYTHING but John Kerry (put a few of those plates down).

So Kerry pulls a Rambo, gets a REMARKABLE amount of medals for an INCREDIBLY short amount of time (or just enough to get him out, but that's neither here nor there). Then he goes back home and takes a vigilante approach to Foriegn Policy? And finds the time to film his exploits. Maybe you can swallow a load that big, but I can't.

This has nothing to do with being a Republican "lackey" or whatever else (spew that hate), it has to do with asking questions about this guy that lead to bad conclusions.

Was Bush a super human squeeky clean angel? No. But I do understand where he stands and I agree with most of it, certainly enough to get my vote.

Nickdfresh
11-02-2004, 06:45 PM
I don't agree. Kerry was the victim of a very well organized smear campaign that hyped his comments and blew them way out of perspective.

Kerry did not cause Americans to be tortured! The North Vietnamese did, and also the failed, short sighted policies that sent them there. U.S. POW's were tortured well before 1971 or 72'. But hearing the SwiftBVFT guys talk, you'd think the whole cornerstone of torture was based on hurt feelings by Kerry's diabolical words.

I don't remember anyone from that side acknowledging that Kerry also went to great lengths to solve the POW-MIA issues. Far more so than any of his detractors did.

ODShowtime
11-02-2004, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh

Kerry did not cause Americans to be tortured! The North Vietnamese did, and also the failed, short sighted policies that sent them there. U.S. POW's were tortured well before 1971 or 72'. But hearing the SwiftBVFT guys talk, you'd think the whole cornerstone of torture was based on hurt feelings by Kerry's diabolical words.

what a fucking repulsive campaign tactic. makes me sick.:mad:

Big Train
11-02-2004, 06:56 PM
I never said he did. What they resent him for is cavorting with the enemy. Nobody knows what was done or said (he has never been exactly forthright), but his reasons for going can't be explained away either. What was he there for? What did he hope to gain?

Yes OD, so, so , so very sick..

ODShowtime
11-02-2004, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Yes OD, so, so , so very sick..

you don't have any problem with SBVs blaming American POW torture at the hands of the NVs on Kerry?

REALITY

Big Train
11-02-2004, 07:09 PM
That is Nicks interpretation of it.."hearing the SWB's talk" is an opinion.

The trouble is, what was he doing there in the first place? At best, attempting to do a job he wasn't prepared to do. At worst...God knows...

Seshmeister
11-02-2004, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
you don't have any problem with SBVs blaming American POW torture at the hands of the NVs on Kerry?

REALITY


It worked though didn't it?

Blew Kerry's war record out the window and until the debates he was out of the game.

Everyone is all surprised?

Kerry's team were shit whether he wins or not.

Did they not realise who they were up against. Bush's team managed to get a business failure, frat boy, ex cocaine user with a DUI who is either fucking dumb or had some sort of verbal dyslexia into the White House. Best of all they did it on a morality family values ticket. If it was a film it would need to be a comedy because noone would believe it.

Bush's campaign staff are so fucking good it's frightening.

Cheers!

:gulp:

Nickdfresh
11-02-2004, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
It worked though didn't it?

Blew Kerry's war record out the window and until the debates he was out of the game.

Everyone is all surprised?

Kerry's team were shit whether he wins or not.

Did they not realise who they were up against. Bush's team managed to get a business failure, frat boy, ex cocaine user with a DUI who is either fucking dumb or had some sort of verbal dyslexia into the White House. Best of all they did it on a morality family values ticket. If it was a film it would need to be a comedy because noone would believe it.

Bush's campaign staff are so fucking good it's frightening.

Cheers!

:gulp:

True. Many said Kerry's campaign was stuck in the 80's.

ODShowtime
11-02-2004, 10:45 PM
WAR=PEACE
FREEDOM=SLAVERY

Seshmeister
11-02-2004, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
True. Many said Kerry's campaign was stuck in the 80's.

It looks like it changed when Clinton sent three of his team to Kerry a few months back.

He probably held off because a Kerry win means no Hilary presidency.

Cheers!

:gulp:

Nickdfresh
11-02-2004, 11:06 PM
Despite all the smiles, there has been tension noted between the Clintons and Kerry. I kind of like Hillary as my senator. She's just starting to get NYS the pork!

To be more specific about Kerry's cnampaign, he showed very little sophistication as far as making his case on the web. They did a good job raising money off the internet, but they took that que from the Dean campaign. Disappointing as far as innovation!