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Nickdfresh
11-07-2004, 10:55 AM
Missing Antiaircraft Missiles Alarm Aides

By Dana Priest and Bradley Graham
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, November 7, 2004; Page A24

Several thousand shoulder-fired missiles -- the kind that could be used to shoot down aircraft -- are missing in Iraq, and their disappearance has prompted U.S. military and intelligence analysts to increase sharply their estimate of the number of such weapons that may be at large, administration officials said yesterday.

Some U.S. analysts figure that as many as 4,000 surface-to-air missiles once under the control of Saddam Hussein's government remain unaccounted for. That would raise the number of such missiles outside government hands worldwide to about 6,000.


But a senior defense official said yesterday that military intelligence analysts are having difficulty estimating just how many of the portable missiles may have vanished and how many of those may be in working order and therefore a threat to U.S. and other aircraft.

"We don't have a good estimate," the official said. "Some have put forward some figures, but there is none that the Defense Intelligence Agency has confidence in."

Another official said government analysts could not say with any certainty whether the missing weapons remain in Iraq or have been smuggled outside the country. "There is no evidence that they have left the country," he said.

Still, other government officials said the threat that the Iraqi missiles could be used to target military or civilian aircraft remains a very real one. Concern about the Iraqi missiles was raised during a conference on aviation threats last week at the DIA's Missile and Space Intelligence Center in Huntsville, Ala. The new estimates, based on analysis done by the DIA and with the proliferation section of the CIA, were first reported yesterday by the New York Times.

The U.S.-led invasion forces did not secure all weapons depots in Iraq, and hundreds of thousands of tons of munitions were looted. U.S. officials fear that the shoulder-launched missiles were among the items carried off by groups willing to sell them on the black market to terrorist organizations.

Western intelligence officials have repeatedly warned of al Qaeda's desire to acquire the missiles for use against American and other airliners. The weapons are easy to hide and cost relatively little -- from less than $1,000 to $100,000 each.

In 2002, terrorists launched two Russian-made SA-7 missiles at a commercial airliner taking off from Mombasa, Kenya. The State Department estimated in 2003 that more than 40 aircraft have been struck by portable missiles since the 1970s, causing at least 24 crashes and more than 600 deaths worldwide.

U.S. officials have said thousands of antiaircraft missiles, most of them SA-7s, were looted from Iraqi army stockpiles and remain unaccounted for. The U.S. military initiated a buyback program for surface-to-air missiles in August 2003, paying as much as $500 apiece. Although hundreds were acquired, military officials have said that thousands remain in circulation.

Three months after the start of the buyback program, in November 2003, a U.S. Army CH-47 Chinook transport helicopter packed with soldiers was hit by a missile west of Baghdad, killing 16 soldiers and wounding 20. At the time, the attack marked the deadliest single assault on U.S. forces since the invasion of Iraq in March 2003.

Since the 1950s, 20 countries have developed or produced more than 30 different types of portable missiles, with between 500,000 and 750,000 weapons believed to be in the worldwide inventory today, according to a report in May by the General Accounting Office, now known as the Government Accountability Office.

The report, "Nonproliferation: Further Improvements Needed in U.S. Efforts to Counter Threats from Man-Portable Air Defense Systems," cited official U.S. figures estimating a few thousand manually portable missiles outside government control.

But, the report added, the government "estimates that thousands more under government controls may be vulnerable to theft and possible transfer to terrorist groups because they are not subject to stringent national export standards nor do they have adequate physical security or inventory controls."

Researcher Meg Smith contributed to this report.

FORD
11-07-2004, 11:47 AM
I wonder how much they paid the Post to suppress this story until after the "election"

Nickdfresh
11-07-2004, 11:49 AM
I would say extorted would be more like it.

Nickdfresh
11-07-2004, 11:56 AM
For more info. on the threat of shoulder launched SAMs and the countermeasures against them, go to:

http://www.house.gov/israel/issues/shoulderfiredmissiles.pdf

Nickdfresh
11-07-2004, 04:16 PM
This is what the Pentagon allowed to get into terrorist hands. Your tax dollars at work!
SA-7 GRAIL
9K32M Strela-2
HN-5 (Hongying 5) China
Anza MKI - Pakistan
Ayn as Saqr - Egypt

The SA-7 GRAIL (Strela-2) man-portable, shoulder-fired, low-altitude SAM system is similar to the US Army REDEYE, with a high explsive warhead and passive infrared homing guidance. The HN-5 ( Hong Nu = Red Cherry ) is an improved Chinese version with upgraded capabilities. The SA-7 was the first generation of Soviet man portable surface-to-air missiles. Although classed as "fire and forget" types, the missiles were easily overcome by solar heat and, when used in hilly terrain, by heat from the ground.
The SA-7 seeker is fitted with a filter to reduce the effectiveness of decoying flares and to block IR emissions. The system consists of the missile (9K32 & 9K32M), a reloadable gripstock (9P54 & 9P54M), and a thermal battery (9B17). An identification friend or foe (IFF) system can be fitted to the operators helmet. Further, a supplementary early warning system consisting of a passive RF antenna and headphones can be used to provide early cue about the approach and rough direction of an enemy aircraft. Although the SA-7 is limited in range, speed, and altitude, it forces enemy pilots to fly above minimum radar limitations which results in detection and vulnerability to regimental and divisional air defense systems.


The SA-7a (9K32 Strela-2) was introduced for service in 1968, but was soon replaced by the SA-7b (9K32M Strela-2M) which became the most common production model. The SA-7b, differs from the SA-7a primarily by using a boosted propellant charge to increase range and speed. The SA-7a had a slant range of 3.6 km and a kill zone between 15 and 1500 meters in altitude, with a speed of about 430 meters per second (Mach 1.4). The SA-7b has a slant range of about 4.2 km, a ceiling of about 2300 meters, and a speed of about 500 meters per second (Mach 1.75). Both the SA-7a and SA-7b are tail-chase missile systems, and its effectiveness depends on its ability to lock onto the heat source of low-flying fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft targets.
The Anza anti-aircraft missiles give Pakistan a response to India's superiority in modern aircraft -- India has a numerical superiority in modern fighter aircraft of more than 3 to 1 over Pakistan. The Anza MK-1, Anza MK-2, and Anza MK-3 surface to air anti-aircraft missiles have ranges of 4, 6 and 15 km, respectively. The missiles are manufactured by the laboratory named after Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan, the father of Pakistan's nuclear program.

The Anza MKI missiles, which have a range of 4.2 km, were manufactured and handed over to the military forces in 1990. It has been reported that the missile was used during the Kargil incidents between Pakistan and India. Pakistan downed two of India's military planes, a MIG-21 and a MIG-27, with the Anza MKI missiles for violating its airspace on 26 May 1999.

Egyptian technicians have reverse engineered and modified two Soviet SAMs -- the Ayn as Saqr (a version of the SA-7) and the Tayir as Sabah (a version of the SA-2). The Ayn as Saqr [Falcon Eye] anti-Aircraft missile system is designed to counter air-ground attack by all types of aircraft flying at low and very low altitudes due to its simplicity of operation, accuracy, light weight, mobility & versatility (either by one man or to be integrated into other overall A/D systems). Also it can be mounted on any combat vehicle, light or armored. Moreover the basic equipment can be fitted with IFF & night vision units.


Specifications
Date of Introduction 1972
Proliferation Worldwide
Crew 1
Launcher Name 9P54M
Length (m) 1.47
Diameter (mm) 70
Weight (kg) 4.71
Reaction Time 5-10 seconds (acquisition to fire)
Time Between Launches (sec) INA
Reload Time (sec) 6-10
Missile Name 9M32M
Max. Range 5,500 meters
Min. Range 500 meters
Max. Altitude 4,500 meters
Min. Altitude 18 meters
Length (m) 1.40
Diameter (mm) 70
Weight (kg) 9.97
Missile Speed (m/s) 580
Propulsion Solid fuel booster and solid fuel sustainer rocket motor.
Guidance Passive IR homing device (operating in the medium IR range)
Seeker Field of View 1.9°
Tracking Rate 6°/sec
Warhead Type HE
Warhead Weight (kg) 1.15
Fuze Type Contact (flush or grazing)
Self-Destruct (sec) 15
FIRE CONTROL Launcher has sighting device and a target acquisitionindicator.
The gunner visually identifies and acquires the target.
Gunner Field of View INA
Acquisition Range (m) INA
VARIANTS SA-N-5 Naval version
HN-5A Chinese version
Strela 2M/A Yugoslavian upgrade
Sakr Eye Egyptian upgrade
Mounted in several types of vehicles in four, six, and eight-tube launcher varieties.
Can be mounted on several helicopters (Mi-24, S-342 Gazelle)


ANZA MK-1 Specifications

Type 2-stage, low altitude
Length (missile, with retracted tail fins) 1.44 m
Weight (total launch assembly in firing condition)
15 Kg (Missile at launch) 9.8 Kg
Propulsion solid fuel booster and solid fuel sustainer rocket motor
Guidance uncooled Pbs passive infrared homing seeker
Warhead HE fragmentation (containing 0.37 Kg HE) with contact
and graze fuzing
Average missile cruise speed 500 m/s
Max missile manoeuvring 6 g
Self destruction time 14-17 s
Max target speed (receding target) 260 m/s
Max effective slant range 4,200 m
Min effective slant range 1,200 m
Max effective altitude 50 m
Weapon reaction time less than 5 s
Time from march to ready less than 10 s
for operation
Battery operation time more than 40 s

Big Train
11-07-2004, 04:19 PM
You guys are such simpletons. If they have them, they MAY use them against us here, but more likely they will use them in Iraq. Watch the news, every other fucking shot is of a guy carrying an RPG or a SAM. How do you KNOW they LET them have them? You don't.

Secondly, it isn't like they can't get them on the black market, which they are readily available and have been since they were developed. The US government and FAA are very much aware of the threat.

DEMON CUNT
11-07-2004, 04:20 PM
Go U.S.A.

Bush has made the world a safer place!

Nickdfresh
11-07-2004, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
You guys are such simpletons. If they have them, they MAY use them against us here, but more likely they will use them in Iraq. .

If you think they can't smuggle a dead, rotting elephant into the U.S. through our porus borders and ports, you my friend are the simpleton! After all it's only 4000 or so.

Big Train
11-07-2004, 06:03 PM
Didn't say they couldn't...

Just saying they are a bit preoccupied over there. There is a possibility a bus could come through your house right now too. I'm not downplaying it, I just think you guys are overplaying it in a weak attempt to get "points" after a VERY bad week for liberals.

Nickdfresh
11-07-2004, 07:53 PM
So we should just ignore major stories like this because it contradicts your dewy, feel good afterglow of the Prez's re-election. Sorry. By the way I am aware that the SA-7 is largely a piece of crap and the airlines now have (exspensive) countermeasures available, after all I posted the link to them. Not so simple am I. They may call me Bubba, but I ain't no dummy!

Big Train
11-07-2004, 09:08 PM
You spend like 9 posts saying the same points over and over. The story is valid, has some legitimate concerns and some bad news. Why you think I'm trying to sugarcoat is because you think you can score some points by exposing both the administration and republicans for being this or that. What happened to your explosives story from two weeks ago? It faded into black as there was never much to go on to begin with (read: Stunt). When the military began discrediting it, in short order libs got quiet. You looked to score points and failed. This is merely take two.

Nickdfresh
11-07-2004, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
You spend like 9 posts saying the same points over and over. The story is valid, has some legitimate concerns and some bad news. Why you think I'm trying to sugarcoat is because you think you can score some points by exposing both the administration and republicans for being this or that. What happened to your explosives story from two weeks ago? It faded into black as there was never much to go on to begin with (read: Stunt). When the military began discrediting it, in short order libs got quiet. You looked to score points and failed. This is merely take two.

Sad isn't it? I guess he gets a free pass on National Security because he talks real tough. I guess that's all that matters. No matter how incompetent you are, as long as if you sound the part, you get re-elected despite the fact that the majority of the military and security intelligentsia think these people don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

LoungeMachine
11-07-2004, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
You guys are such simpletons. If they have them, they MAY use them against us here, but more likely they will use them in Iraq. Watch the news, every other fucking shot is of a guy carrying an RPG or a SAM. How do you KNOW they LET them have them? You don't.

Secondly, it isn't like they can't get them on the black market, which they are readily available and have been since they were developed. The US government and FAA are very much aware of the threat.

Oh, gee

Silly us.

Okay then, by all means why not just have us hand them out BT?

Always an excuse
Always a denial

Everything's just hunky fucking dorey over there, right BT?

Mission Accomplished

Bring 'em on

Greeted like Liberators

The oil revs will pay for the rebuilding


WE CAN'T SECURE THE AMMO DUMPS
WE CANT SECURE THE OIL FIELDS
WE CAN'T FIND THE WMDS
WE GET SCREWED BY OUR OWN NO BID SUPPLIER[S]
WE IGNORE THE GENEVA CONVENTION
THE COALITION OF THE BRIBED IS UNRAVELLING LIKE A CHEAP SWEATER


Beware the second term

Let the white house body count begin

Cathedral
11-08-2004, 12:16 AM
Hey, if the Dems had put up a candidate that could beat Bush, things would be different right now.

But i wouldn't be acting like a child crying about any and every little thing.

You're all sore losers, period...

Big Train
11-08-2004, 02:33 AM
Thank you cathedral...

Lounge, welcome back (haven't heard from you in a bit).

You think I don't fuckin care? I'm in LA, the FIRST place they are gonna hit if they get in via Mexico.

Read my fuckin posts chowdaheads...Did I NOT say it was a legitimate issue? There are concerns about what happened when and shit will happen (which does not equal hunky dorey or an excuse). I think they are doing a great job and the putz you put up would not do jack (I watched him for 20 years do nothing on a range of issues).

There are issues to handle and things need to be done. You want to shut down the borders?

Fine, tame all the people on your side who cry about mexican immigrants (ie. there wellbeing, how unfair it is not to let them in, to deport their families), illegals of all types, the funding to build a wall or have people covering all of those avenues. Remove the idiots who will picket, whine and complain on your side and then we can TRULY move forward.

DEMON CUNT
11-08-2004, 02:45 AM
Originally posted by Cathedral
Hey, if the Dems had put up a candidate that could beat Bush, things would be different right now.

But i wouldn't be acting like a child crying about any and every little thing.

You're all sore losers, period...

You like Sammy better than Dave, don't you?

How gay!