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FORD
11-15-2004, 12:59 PM
I smell a rat. It has that distinctive and all-too-familiar odor of the species Republicanus floridius. We got a nasty bite from this pest four years ago and never quite recovered. Symptoms of a long-term infection are becoming distressingly apparent.

The first sign of the rat was on election night. The jubilation of early exit polling had given way to rising anxiety as states fell one by one to the Red Tide. It was getting late in the smoky cellar of a Prague sports bar where a crowd of expats had gathered. We had been hoping to go home to bed early, confident of victory. Those hopes had evaporated in a flurry of early precinct reports from Florida and Ohio.

By 3 AM, conversation had died and we were grimly sipping beers and watching as those two key states seemed to be slipping further and further to crimson. Suddenly, a friend who had left two hours earlier rushed in and handed us a printout.

"Zogby's calling it for Kerry." He smacked the sheet decisively. "Definitely. He's got both Florida and Ohio in the Kerry column. Kerry only needs one." Satisfied, we went to bed, confident we would wake with the world a better place. Victory was at hand.

The morning told a different story, of course. No Florida victory for Kerry--Bush had a decisive margin of nearly 400,000 votes. Ohio was not even close enough for Kerry to demand that all the votes be counted. The pollsters had been dead wrong, Bush had four more years and a powerful mandate. Onward Christian soldiers--next stop, Tehran.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics

I work with statistics and polling data every day. Something rubbed me the wrong way. I checked the exit polls for Florida--all wrong. CNN's results indicated a Kerry win: turnout matched voter registration, and independents had broken 59% to 41% for Kerry.

Polling is an imprecise science. Yet its very imprecision is itself quantifiable and follows regular patterns. Differences between actual results and those expected from polling data must be explainable by identifiable factors if the polling sample is robust enough. With almost 3.000 respondents in Florida alone, the CNN poll sample was pretty robust.

The first signs of the rat were identified by Kathy Dopp, who conducted a simple analysis of voter registrations by party in Florida and compared them to presidential vote results. Basically she multiplied the total votes cast in a county by the percentage of voters registered Republican: this gave an expected Republican vote. She then compared this to the actual result.

Her analysis is startling. Certain counties voted for Bush far in excess of what one would expect based on the share of Republican registrations in that county. They key phrase is "certain counties"--there is extraordinary variance between individual counties. Most counties fall more or less in line with what one would expect based on the share of Republican registrations, but some differ wildly.

How to explain this incredible variance? Dopp found one over-riding factor: whether the county used electronic touch-screen voting, or paper ballots which were optically scanned into a computer. All of those with touch-screen voting had results relatively in line with her expected results, while all of those with extreme variance were in counties with optical scanning.

The intimation, clearly, is fraud. Ballots are scanned; results are fed into precinct computers; these are sent to a county-wide database, whose results are fed into the statewide electoral totals. At any point after physical ballots become databases, the system is vulnerable to external hackers.

It seemed too easy, and Dopp's method seemed simplistic. I re-ran the results using CNN's exit polling data. In each county, I took the number of registrations and assigned correctional factors based on the CNN poll to predict turnout among Republicans, Democrats, and independents. I then used the vote shares from the polls to predict a likely number of Republican votes per county. I compared this ‘expected' Republican vote to the actual Republican vote.

The results are shocking. Overall, Bush received 2% fewer votes in counties with electronic touch-screen voting than expected. In counties with optical scanning, he received 16% more. This 16% would not be strange if it were spread across counties more or less evenly. It is not. In 11 different counties, the ‘actual' Bush vote was at least twice higher than the expected vote. 13 counties had Bush vote tallies 50--100% higher than expected. In one county where 88% of voters are registered Democrats, Bush got nearly two thirds of the vote--three times more than predicted by my model.

Again, polling can be wrong. It is difficult to believe it can be that wrong. Fortunately, however, we can test how wrong it would have to be to give the ‘actual' result.

I tested two alternative scenarios to see how wrong CNN would have to have been to explain the election result. In the first, I assumed they had been wildly off the mark in the turnout figures--i.e. far more Republicans and independents had come out than Democrats. In the second I assumed the voting shares were completely wrong, and that the Republicans had been able to massively poach voters from the Democrat base.

In the first scenario, I assumed 90% of Republicans and independents voted, and the remaining ballots were cast by Democrats. This explains the result in counties with optical scanning to within 5%. However, in this scenario Democratic turnout would have been only 51% in the optical scanning counties--barely exceeding half of Republican turnout. It also does not solve the enormous problems in individual counties. 7 counties in this scenario still have actual vote tallies for Bush that are at least 100% higher than predicted by the model--an extremely unlikely result.

In the second scenario I assumed that Bush had actually got 100% of the vote from Republicans and 50% from independents (versus CNN polling results which were 93% and 41% respectively). If this gave enough votes for Bush to explain the county's results, I left the amount of Democratic registered voters ballots cast for Bush as they were predicted by CNN (14% voted for Bush). If this did not explain the result, I calculated how many Democrats would have to vote for Bush.

In 41 of 52 counties, this did not explain the result and Bush must have gotten more than CNN's predicted 14% of Democratic ballots--not an unreasonable assumption by itself. However, in 21 counties more than 50% of Democratic votes would have to have defected to Bush to account for the county result--in four counties, at least 70% would have been required. These results are absurdly unlikely.

The second rat

A previously undiscovered species of rat, Republicanus cuyahogus, has been found in Ohio. Before the election, I wrote snide letters to a state legislator for Cuyahoga county who, according to media reports, was preparing an army of enforcers to keep ‘suspect' (read: minority) voters away from the polls. One of his assistants wrote me back very pleasant mails to the effect that they had no intention of trying to suppress voter turnout, and in fact only wanted to encourage people to vote.

They did their job too well. According to the official statistics for Cuyahoga county, a number of precincts had voter turnout well above the national average: in fact, turnout was well over 100% of registered voters, and in several cases well above the total number of people who have lived in the precinct in the last century or so.

In 30 precincts, more ballots were cast than voters were registered in the county. According to county regulations, voters must cast their ballot in the precinct in which they are registered. Yet in these thirty precincts, nearly 100.000 more people voted than are registered to vote -- this out of a total of 251.946 registrations. These are not marginal differences--this is a 39% over-vote. In some precincts the over-vote was well over 100%. One precinct with 558 registered voters cast nearly 9,000 ballots. As one astute observer noted, it's the ballot-box equivalent of Jesus' miracle of the fishes. Bush being such a man of God, perhaps we should not be surprised.

What to do?

This is not an idle statistical exercise. Either the raw data from two critical battleground states is completely erroneous, or something has gone horribly awry in our electoral system--again. Like many Americans, I was dissatisfied with and suspicious of the way the Florida recount was resolved in 2000. But at the same time, I was convinced of one thing: we must let the system work, and accept its result, no matter how unjust it might appear.

With this acceptance, we placed our implicit faith in the Bush Administration that it would not abuse its position: that it would recognize its fragile mandate for what it was, respect the will of the majority of people who voted against them, and move to build consensus wherever possible and effect change cautiously when needed. Above all, we believed that both Democrats and Republicans would recognize the over-riding importance of revitalizing the integrity of the electoral system and healing the bruised faith of both constituencies.

This faith has been shattered. Bush has not led the nation to unity, but ruled through fear and division. Dishonesty and deceit in areas critical to the public interest have been the hallmark of his Administration. I state this not to throw gratuitous insults, but to place the Florida and Ohio electoral results in their proper context. For the GOP to claim now that we must take anything on faith, let alone astonishingly suspicious results in a hard-fought and extraordinarily bitter election, is pure fantasy. It does not even merit discussion.

The facts as I see them now defy all logical explanations save one--massive and systematic vote fraud. We cannot accept the result of the 2004 presidential election as legitimate until these discrepancies are rigorously and completely explained. From the Valerie Plame case to the horrors of Abu Ghraib, George Bush has been reluctant to seek answers and assign accountability when it does not suit his purposes. But this is one time when no American should accept not getting a straight answer. Until then, George Bush is still, and will remain, the ‘Accidental President' of 2000. One of his many enduring and shameful legacies will be that of seizing power through two illegitimate elections conducted on his brother's watch, and engineering a fundamental corruption at the very heart of the greatest democracy the world has known. We must not permit this to happen again.

(11/12/2004)
- By Colin Shea, The Freezer Box Link (http://www.zogby.com/soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=10398)

Nickdfresh
11-15-2004, 01:06 PM
MSNBC's Olbermann is the only mainstream journalist covering voter fraud issues. While he doesn't necessarily think there is a conspriacy, on a NPR interview, he dimissed the media's lack of attention on the issue as basically lazy journalism after Kerry's conscession.

• November 9, 2004 | 12:55 a.m. ET

Electronic voting angst (Keith Olbermann)

NEW YORK — Bev Harris, the Blackbox lady, was apparently quoted in a number of venues during the day Monday as having written “I was tipped off by a person very high up in TV that the news has been locked down tight, and there will be no TV coverage of the real problems with voting on Nov. 2… My source said they’ve also been forbidden to talk about it even on their own time.”

I didn’t get the memo.

We were able to put together a reasonably solid 15 minutes or so on the voting irregularities in Florida and Ohio on Monday’s Countdown. There was some You-Are-There insight from the Cincinnati Enquirer reporter who had personally encountered the ‘lockdown’ during the vote count in Warren County, Ohio, a week ago, and a good deal of fairly contained comment from Representative John Conyers of Michigan, who now leads a small but growing group of Democratic congressmen who’ve written the General Accountability Office demanding an investigation of what we should gently call the Electronic Voting Angst. Conyers insisted he wasn’t trying to re-cast the election, but seemed mystified that in the 21st Century we could have advanced to a technological state in which voting— fine, flawed, or felonious— should leave no paper trail.

But the show should not have been confused with Edward R. Murrow flattening Joe McCarthy. I mean that both in terms of editorial content and controversy. I swear, and I have never been known to cover-up for any management anywhere, that I got nothing but support from MSNBC both for the Web-work and the television time. We were asked if perhaps we shouldn’t begin the program with the Fallujah offensive and do the voting story later, but nobody flinched when we argued that the Countdown format pretty much allows us to start wherever we please.

It may be different elsewhere, but there was no struggle to get this story on the air, and evidently I should be washing the feet of my bosses this morning in thanks. Because your reaction was a little different than mine. By actual rough count, between the 8 p.m. ET start of the program and 10:30 p.m. ET last night, we received 1,570 e-mails (none of them duplicates or forms, as near as I can tell). 1,508 were positive, 62 negative.

Well the volume is startling to begin with. I know some of the overtly liberal sites encouraged readers to write, but that’s still a hunk of mail, and a decisive margin (hell, 150 to 62 is considered a decisive margin). Writing this, I know I’m inviting negative comment, but so be it. I read a large number of the missives, skimmed all others, appreciate all— and all since— deeply.

Even the negative ones, because in between the repeated “you lost” nonsense and one baffling reference to my toupee (seriously, if I wore a rug, wouldn’t I get one that was all the same color?), there was a solid point raised about some of the incongruous voting noted on the website of Florida’s Secretary of State.

There, 52 counties tallied their votes using paper ballots that were then optically scanned by machines produced by Diebold, Sequoia, or Election Systems and Software. 29 of those Florida counties had large Democratic majorities among registered voters (as high a ratio as Liberty County— Bristol, Florida and environs— where it’s 88 percent Democrats, 8 percent Republicans) but produced landslides for President Bush. On Countdown, we cited the five biggest surprises (Liberty ended Bush: 1,927; Kerry: 1,070), but did not mention the other 24.

Those protesting e-mailers pointed out that four of the five counties we mentioned also went for Bush in 2000, and were in Florida’s panhandle or near the Georgia border. Many of them have long “Dixiecrat” histories and the swing to Bush, while remarkably large, isn’t of itself suggestive of voting fraud.

That the other 24 counties were scattered across the state, and that they had nothing in common except the optical scanning method, I didn’t mention. My bad. I used the most eye-popping numbers, and should have used a better regional mix instead.

Interestingly, none of the complaining emailers took issue with the remarkable results out of Cuyahoga County, Ohio. In 29 precincts there, the County’s Website shows, we had the most unexpected results in years: more votes than voters.

I’ll repeat that: more votes than voters. 93,000 more votes than voters.

Oops.

Talk about successful get-out-the-vote campaigns! What a triumph for democracy in Fairview Park, twelve miles west of downtown Cleveland. Only 13,342 registered voters there, but they cast 18,472 votes.

Vote early! Vote often!

And in the continuing saga of the secret vote count in Warren County, Ohio (outside Cincinnati), no protestor offered an explanation or even a reference, excepting one sympathetic writer who noted that there was a “beautiful Mosque” in or near Warren County, and that a warning from Homeland Security might have been predicated on that fact.

To her credit, Pat South, President of the Warren County Commissioners who chose to keep the media from watching the actual vote count, was willing to come on the program— but only by phone. Instead, we asked her to compose a statement about the bizarre events at her County Administration building a week ago, which I can quote at greater length here than I did on the air.

“About three weeks prior to elections,” Ms. South stated, “our emergency services department had been receiving quite a few pieces of correspondence from the office of Homeland Security on the upcoming elections. These memos were sent out statewide, not just to Warren County and they included a lot of planning tools and resources to use for election day security.

“In a face to face meeting between the FBI and our director of Emergency Services, we were informed that on a scale from 1 to 10, the tri-state area of Southwest Ohio was ranked at a high 8 to a low 9 in terms of security risk. Warren County in particular, was rated at 10 (with 10 being the highest risk). Pursuant to the Ohio revised code, we followed the law to the letter that basically says that no one is allowed within a hundred feet of a polling place except for voters and that after the polls close the only people allowed in the board of elections area where votes are being counted are the board of election members, judges, clerks, poll challengers, police, and that no one other than those people can be there while tabulation is taking place.”

Ms. South said she admitted the media to the building’s lobby, and that they were provided with updates on the ballot-counting every half hour. Of course, the ballot-counting was being conducted on the third floor, and the idea that it would have probably looked better if Warren had done what Ohio’s other 87 counties did— at least let reporters look through windows as the tabulations proceeded— apparently didn’t occur to anybody.

Back to those emails, especially the 1,508 positive ones. Apart from the supportive words (my favorites: “Although I did not vote for Kerry, as a former government teacher, I am encouraged by your ‘covering’ the voting issue which is the basis of our government. Thank you.”), the main topics were questions about why ours was apparently the first television or mainstream print coverage of any of the issues in Florida or Ohio. I have a couple of theories.

Firstly, John Kerry conceded. As I pointed out here Sunday, no candidate’s statement is legally binding— what matters is the state election commissions’ reports, and the Electoral College vote next month. But in terms of reportorial momentum, the concession took the wind out of a lot of journalists’ aggressiveness towards the entire issue. Many were prepared for Election Night premature jocularity, and a post-vote stampede to the courts— especially after John Edwards’ late night proclamation from Boston. When Kerry brought that to a halt, a lot of the media saw something of which they had not dared dream: a long weekend off.

Don’t discount this. This has been our longest presidential campaign ever, to say nothing of the one in which the truth was most artfully hidden or manufactured. To consider this mess over was enough to get 54 percent of the respondents to an Associated Press poll released yesterday to say that the “conclusiveness” of last week’s vote had given them renewed confidence in our electoral system (of course, 39 percent said it had given them less confidence). Up for the battle for truth or not, a lot of fulltime political reporters were ready for a rest. Not me— I get to do “Oddball” and “Newsmakers” every night and they always serve to refresh my spirit, and my conviction that man is the silliest of the creator’s creations.

There’s a third element to the reluctance to address all this, I think. It comes from the mainstream’s love-hate relationship with this very thing you’re reading now: The Blog. This medium is so new that print, radio, and television don’t know what to do with it, especially given that a system of internet checks and balances has yet to develop. A good reporter may encounter a tip, or two, or five, in a day’s time. He has to check them all out before publishing or reporting.

What happens when you get 1,000 tips, all at once?

I’m sounding like an apologist for the silence of television and I don’t mean to. Just remember that when radio news arose in the '30s, the response of newspapers and the wire services was to boycott it, then try to limit it to specific hours. There’s a measure of competitiveness, a measure of confusion, and the undeniable fact that in searching for clear, non-partisan truth in this most partisan of times, the I’m-Surprised-This-Name-Never-Caught-On “Information Super Highway” becomes a road with direction signs listing 1,000 destinations each.

Having said all that— for crying out loud, all the data we used tonight on Countdown was on official government websites in Cleveland and Florida. We confirmed all of it— moved it right out of the Reynolds Wrap Hat zone in about ten minutes.

Which offers one way bloggers can help guide the mainstream at times like this: source your stuff like crazy, and the stuffier the source the better.

Enough from the soapbox. We have heard the message on the Voting Angst and will continue to cover it with all prudent speed.

Thanks for your support.

Keep them coming...

email me at KOlbermann@msnbc.com

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/

fanofdave
11-15-2004, 01:10 PM
there is something fishy, alright....

what's fishy is how many votes kerry
supposedly received in the election.
there's no way he got that many votes.
i demand proof now.

KERRY/EDWARDS 2004
THE STENCH OF CAMPAIGN FAILURE

ODShowtime
11-15-2004, 01:13 PM
He doesn't answer his question. WTF can we do about it?

FORD
11-15-2004, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by fanofdave
there is something fishy, alright....

what's fishy is how many votes kerry
supposedly received in the election.
there's no way he got that many votes.
i demand proof now.

KERRY/EDWARDS 2004
THE STENCH OF CAMPAIGN FAILURE

:hagar1: :hagar2: :hagar3:

Nickdfresh
11-15-2004, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
He doesn't answer his question. WTF can we do about it?

Make damn-well fucking sure either voter fraud never happens again, or make the election process more transparent in order to avoid these questions.

ODShowtime
11-15-2004, 01:21 PM
fuck that. I want gw out of the whitehouse and into the big house where he and his cabal belong.

FORD
11-15-2004, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
He doesn't answer his question. WTF can we do about it?

Eliminate any and all methods of voting that do not have a verifiable, tangible record of the vote that was cast.

There is no defense of electro-fraud. There is no justification for this betryal of democracy whatsoever. Those who remain in denial are as guilty of treason as those who designed the machines and manipulate them.

knuckleboner
11-15-2004, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by FORD
In some precincts the over-vote was well over 100%. One precinct with 558 registered voters cast nearly 9,000 ballots. As one astute observer noted, it's the ballot-box equivalent of Jesus' miracle of the fishes. Bush being such a man of God, perhaps we should not be surprised.



here's the problem with this article.

maybe his overall point is valid, maybe it's not.

but THIS point isn't. this was a glitch in the system. none of these extra votes counted.

i won't argue that nobody would (or has) fraudulently affected an election. but i challenge even the most ardent conspiracy theorist to explain to me how anyone competent enough to put in 16 times more votes than registered voters, would be so STUPID as to think that they could slip this through.


but, because he can spin an obvious glitch to sound like it's really, really bad doesn't mean he should. from my point of view, it calls into question his overall arguments.

ODShowtime
11-15-2004, 01:28 PM
The problem is that many of the people charged with correcting these problems are the ones who benefited from the loopholes. They have it locked down now and I'm pretty sure they don't want to give it up.

I don't want to out-Ford you Ford, but they have it all on lockdown now. Like I've said repeatedly over the last fews weeks:

We're Fucked

FORD
11-15-2004, 01:34 PM
I don't believe that a "glitch in the system" would turn as many votes as what has been described in this and other articles, but in any case, accidental glitch or intentional fraud either one threatens the very existence of our democracy without a tangible record of the actual vote backing it up.

Cathedral
11-15-2004, 07:15 PM
Look out everyone, the sky is falling!

FORD
11-15-2004, 07:30 PM
Apparently Zogby believes there's something to it, or they wouldn't have published the article. Even right wingers swear by the accuracy of Zogby.

ELVIS
11-15-2004, 07:40 PM
Says who ??

DrMaddVibe
11-15-2004, 07:50 PM
voter fraud? How's 'bout candidate fraud! You dems got what you deserved and no more. Did you really think this buffoon could win?

FORD
11-15-2004, 07:55 PM
He got a lot of votes, AssVibe.

And you can forget the "big map of empty red dirt" because it doesn't mean shit. Count the votes where people actually live.

ELVIS
11-15-2004, 08:01 PM
Empty red dirt ??

You really are an idiot!

Viking
11-15-2004, 08:16 PM
Hey, FORD, when the mothership arrives to restock your supply of psychotropic drugs, tell Elvis and Jimmy Hoffa I said, 'Yo'........:D

FORD
11-15-2004, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
Empty red dirt ??

You really are an idiot!

http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2004/darksky.gif

There's a satellite photo of the US at night. You tell me where the people are.

They ain't in many "red" states west of the Mississippi, that's for damn sure.

And yes, empty dirt (or sand) is an accurate description for most of it.

Not that I don't love certain deserts, they just don't have a lot of people in them.

ELVIS
11-15-2004, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by FORD

And yes, empty dirt (or sand) is an accurate description for most of it.




No, no it is not !!!

FORD
11-15-2004, 10:38 PM
How much of the Western half of the US have you seen?

Shit, just drive the long lonely highway between Vegas and Reno.

Not much out there, except for a whorehouse called the Cottontail ranch about halfway up the road.

Or take the other highway out of Vegas which goes up to Area 51 - and not much else. Then drive through central eastern Utah for a while through hundreds of miles of barren land that not even polygamists can live in.

That's what these "red states" look like on this side of the country.

Switch84
11-16-2004, 03:36 AM
:D ;) LOL, why can't we have a fun computer glitch? Like clearing my TRW or increasing my credit card limit to 3 million?

BUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!




:( A glitch like that would be found faster than a New York minute and corrected.


DAMN.

diamondD
11-16-2004, 07:27 AM
But Dave, you still acted like there's no people between the coastal blue areas and your own map proved you wrong.

They counted the votes and Bush won. Haven't you heard?

DLR'sCock
11-16-2004, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
Empty red dirt ??

You really are an idiot!




As someone who has driven all over a large chunk of this country, I can surely attest to the the fact that there is alot, and I mean thousands of miles of unpopulated(or barely populated) land....

DLR'sCock
11-16-2004, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by FORD
How much of the Western half of the US have you seen?

Shit, just drive the long lonely highway between Vegas and Reno.

Not much out there, except for a whorehouse called the Cottontail ranch about halfway up the road.

Or take the other highway out of Vegas which goes up to Area 51 - and not much else. Then drive through central eastern Utah for a while through hundreds of miles of barren land that not even polygamists can live in.

That's what these "red states" look like on this side of the country.


Take routes 10 out of LA nad head out to Texas,it's desert from just outside the San Bernadino Valley until about 100 miles outside of Austin..........yeah, that's quite a barren drive.....but I do love it...

knuckleboner
11-16-2004, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by FORD
I don't believe that a "glitch in the system" would turn as many votes as what has been described in this and other articles, but in any case, accidental glitch or intentional fraud either one threatens the very existence of our democracy without a tangible record of the actual vote backing it up.

dude, i'm only talking about the instance where they found the 2 machines with thousands more votes than the precinct had registered voters. that was definitely a glitch. the computer program went nuts.

and, believe it or not, most of those machines DO contain records. we had to crack a few open after our local election last november. there are 2 separate drives that save the info. if the drives match up to what's recorded, then there were no errors.

but even if there was no actual record...is that such a big deal?

by definition, our secret ballot system doesn't allow people to attest to their individual votes. even with paper ballots, how can you be sure somebody didn't change some ballots? we can't ask everyone in the U.S. how they voted and then compare. after all, what if some of them forgot (or are lying about) their votes?

if the florida recount in 2000 had showed gore winning by 140 votes, could we be certain that nobody dickered with the hanging chads on 141 of those recounted, manual ballots?

ELVIS
11-16-2004, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by FORD
How much of the Western half of the US have you seen?




All of it!

In fact, I have travelled EVERY major US highway in almost every state...

John Ashcroft
11-16-2004, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by FORD
http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2004/darksky.gif

There's a satellite photo of the US at night. You tell me where the people are.

They ain't in many "red" states west of the Mississippi, that's for damn sure.

And yes, empty dirt (or sand) is an accurate description for most of it.

Not that I don't love certain deserts, they just don't have a lot of people in them.

So why the fuck are you polluter's ruining our Mother Earth????

Look at all the energy you're wasting, at the expense of our well being!!!!

You should be penalized!!! You should be forced to pay 100 times the effective tax rate of "red" America! After all, what good is money if "Mother Earth" is destroyed by your greeeeeeeeeeedy energy consumption and polluting ways!

lucky wilbury
11-16-2004, 11:04 PM
this is a better pic and everyone should compare the "county" map to this pic or even the state election map that shows just how red this country is and most ot that light is coming from the "red" states

a link to the pic so every one knows its real http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories/s2015.htm

ELVIS
11-16-2004, 11:07 PM
Awesome!

Good job as always, Lucky...:cool:

John Ashcroft
11-16-2004, 11:11 PM
I wonder if libs actually even look out of the window when they fly...

Well, I know the answer to that. They're perfectly contempt with living in their little fantasy world, sure to never "look out of the window"...

JCOOK
11-17-2004, 03:30 AM
Will someone get a net and tranquilize Frau...Ford before he hurts himself or someone else. YOU LOST GET OVER IT YOU FUCKING PSYCHO! (My apologies to psychos)

Loki
11-17-2004, 06:46 AM
haw haw. fools & underlings.