View Full Version : Pacers-Pistons Called Early for Brawl
ALinChainz
11-19-2004, 11:35 PM
Indiana 97, Detroit 82
By LARRY LAGE, AP Sports Writer
November 19, 2004
AUBURN HILLS, Mich. (AP) -- Indiana's Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson charged into the stands and fought with fans in the final minute of their game against the Detroit Pistons on Friday night, forcing an early end to the Pacers' 97-82 win.
The game was stopped with 45.9 seconds remaining when a pushing and shoving between the teams spilled into the stands after fans began throwing things at the players near the scorer's table.
``It's the ugliest thing I've seen as a coach or player,'' Pistons coach Larry Brown said.
After several minutes of players fighting with fans in the stands, the Pacers were pelted with beer, ice, and popcorn as they made their way to the locker room in one of the scariest brawls in an NBA game.
The Palace announcer said the game was being stopped and pleaded with fans not to throw things.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap;_ylc=X3oDMTBpNWZic251BF9TAzI1NjY0ODI1BHNlYwN 0aA--?gid=2004111908&prov=ap
ALinChainz
11-19-2004, 11:40 PM
See this on SportCenter ... it was WILD.
Personally, I think Artest fouled Ben Wallace a little cheaply with them up by 15, and then how he acts the rest of the way.
Ben isn't innocent here, but have never liked Artest. Guess he'll get that month off he wanted to promote his CD.
The article doesn't mention this huge man coming out of nowhere and firing on Pacer guard Greg Jones.
It was wild. Fines and suspensions are going to be interesting.
redblkwht
11-20-2004, 12:00 AM
Yet another black eye for the NBA..
this is one of the reasons why i dont watch it
anymore, no practice, big money & all punks.
over & over espn has played this already..
Stern should suspend some for the whole season.
W/O pay. Then it will stop.
Originally posted by redblkwht
Yet another black eye for the NBA..
this is one of the reasons why i dont watch it
anymore, no practice, big money & all punks.
over & over espn has played this already..
Stern should suspend some for the whole season.
W/O pay. Then it will stop.
I can buy into most, if not all, of that...
Fabulous Shadow
11-20-2004, 02:01 AM
Shit! there was some ass kicken going on huh! Fans and everything! Looked like a typical night at the ARMY to me...:D
lucky wilbury
11-20-2004, 02:25 AM
who cares its basketball
Matt White
11-20-2004, 02:28 AM
DEE-TROIT BASKET-BALL!!!!!
twonabomber
11-20-2004, 03:12 AM
Artest wanted some time off, looks like he's gonna get it.
twonabomber
11-20-2004, 03:20 AM
and i'd really like to punch that asshole Stephen A. Smith.
Va Beach VH Fan
11-20-2004, 09:18 AM
What do you expect from a league full of thugs....
But you're right Lou, it's better than hockey.....
They just got X-Treme Attitude baby!! Booo-Yeahh!!!! No biggy!!! Nothing is ever a biggy!!!!
Matt White
11-20-2004, 09:25 AM
"I went to a basketball game and a HOCKEY game broke out..."
Next matchup is on fucking Christmas!! What a holiday event!
BTW: How did all those Yankee fans happen to show up that night? You know they are the only ones who stir up all that kinda shit!
POJO_Risin
11-20-2004, 10:03 AM
That was an interesting brawl...no doubt about it...
1. Artest thuglifes Wallace...
2. Artest gets pelted with beer...and charges the fan that did it...with Davis...
3. Bombs throwing everywhere...
4. Artest leaves the stands...and a fan walks out ON THE COURT...Artest lands a right cross from hell...and destroys the guy...
what does this mean?
the NBA sucks...go figure...
Artest will get longer than a month off...if he plays again this year...I'll be surprised...
POJO_Risin
11-20-2004, 10:04 AM
Jackson...not Davis...lmfao...
twonabomber
11-20-2004, 10:09 AM
Cavs goin' two games up on the Pissed-ons tonight! and only one game behind the Pacers.
High Life Man
11-20-2004, 10:12 AM
Arrtest needs to be suspended for the season. He also needs to go to jail for a year for aggrivated assault. That guy on the court did nothing to deserve the crack he got. Jermaine O'Neal should be arrested too. He cracked the same guy.
Stern SHOULD suspended EVERYONE for the season. You cannot allow people to lose control again. Punishments needs to be severe. But they won't be.
The NBA sucks.
POJO_Risin
11-20-2004, 10:22 AM
Well High Life...I think Artest will get a years suspension...
and the guy being on the court makes him fair game if you ask me...at that point...
security should have been keeping fans off the court...of course...if you don't have security close to the court...you can't...
and in this day and age...you should...
if I'm a player...and someone is coming up to me...during a brawl like that...well...he's getting a beat down...
that doesn't excuse the fight in the least...
and I agree...many should be banished...but we'll see what happens...
twonabomber
11-20-2004, 10:34 AM
i don't know if it would have been a better idea to try to get those guys out through the crowd, or hold everyone at center court, surrounded by security, and clear the arena first.
i don't know how they do it everywhere else, but after Cavs games, the ushers come down and stand around the edges of the court until everyone's gone.
Matt White
11-20-2004, 10:46 AM
DE-TROIT BASKET-BALL!!!!
I'll say this much, it's amazing how all the sports and sports coverage now seem to be imitating the WWE. I mean wasn't it just this year when the bullpen pitcher got into a fight with one of the fans in the stands? And then like all the camera angles of the players going into the locker room seem to pretty much be emulating the WWE.
This is not something obviously ESPN wants every day but don't think for a second they're not giddy that they were the network that was airing the game. Don't think they don't eat this up.
Now in spite of this, yes VA the NHL sucks ass and I really enjoy NBA basketball.
tjvhou812
11-20-2004, 11:29 AM
and what a good brawl it was....
that was fucking great...
twonabomber
11-20-2004, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Lou
This is not something obviously ESPN wants every day but don't think for a second they're not giddy that they were the network that was airing the game. Don't think they don't eat this up.
ESPN loves it, they can hype the Christmas Day game even more now.
Fairwrning
11-20-2004, 12:05 PM
so..the players went INTO THE STANDS!!...SHOW ME THE MONEY!! there are some new homeowners in Detroit thanks to those 2 dumbasses..
Originally posted by lucky wilbury
who cares its basketball
*Cha-ching*
ALinChainz
11-20-2004, 02:30 PM
Ben Wallace, Artest, O'Neal, and Jackson have all been suspended indefinitely.
POJO_Risin
11-20-2004, 02:54 PM
Wallace? Did I miss something that he did?
I know the flagrant foul at the start...but the rest was Wallace free right?
POJO_Risin
11-20-2004, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by TLR
*Cha-ching*
There has not been a more true statement today...
lucky wilbury
11-20-2004, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
What do you expect from a league full of thugs....
But you're right Lou, it's better than hockey.....
but at least hockey are funny when they go into the stands. they beat people with their own shoes!
Va Beach VH Fan
11-20-2004, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by Lou
Now in spite of this, yes VA the NHL sucks ass and I really enjoy NBA basketball.
Ya know, I can't blame you for that statement, seriously....
Being 23, that makes your birth year 1981, you've grown up in a world that's 180 degrees different from the one I grew up in, and I was only born in 1964....
The generation where thousands of kids in cities, like Philadelphia where you are, will play basketball until the wee hours of the morning, because they all think they're the next Michael Jordan....
Of course, they're school grades suck balls, and the vast majority of them will have a criminal record if/when they graduate high school, but they don't give a shit, 'cause they're gonna make the NBA dammit !!!
And let's discuss the pitiful state of basketball nowadays.... We're talking about the ENTIRE scope of organized basketball, from NBA to college to high school, has completely gone down the shitter, because basketball nowadays is nothing more than dunks and 3 pointers....
Organized players nowadays cannot pass the ball to save their life.... Ask players like Oscar Robertson and Magic Johnson (both black, just in case anyone wants to throw the race card out there) how the NBA is nowadays.....
The bottom line is that the NBA is full of ungrateful, greedy, spoiled multi-millionaires, who couldn't give a shit less about what the fans think about them, because they're getting paid by the Man who pays the big bucks for the premium seats and the skyboxes....
I don't hate the sport of basketball, not at all.... I've still got a pretty mean jumper for an old man, but being only 5'10", I don't like getting my shit swatted every time I drive to the hoop, so I usually stay in the perimeter....
POJO_Risin
11-20-2004, 05:03 PM
lmfao...good post...
the NBA isn't fun to watch anymore...anyone that thought it was last night is a fucking joke of a fan...
I'm an NHL fan...hell...a sports fan...
but the brand the NBA is putting out there every night is shit...pure unadulterated shit...
Athletically gifted...but 2 cent brains...
the NHL? Well...their product is in a cardboard box...
so both suck if you ask me...right now...
but if the NHL figures it out...figures out a way to get back on the ice...AND to put goals in the net...
the game will be better off for it...
the NBA...alas...will never be good...and why? to many kids that haven't lived a real life...and they get in this fantasy land...and fucking blow up...
sad really...
lucky wilbury
11-20-2004, 07:25 PM
all sports are about the money and not about the game. hell people now are pushing their kids into certain sports because they are hoping for a giant pay day
Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
The bottom line is that the NBA is full of ungrateful, greedy, spoiled multi-millionaires, who couldn't give a shit less about what the fans think about them, because they're getting paid by the Man who pays the big bucks for the premium seats and the skyboxes....
That can be applied to any sport, to a lot of players.
I generally don't defend players when fights happened but you know, those Detroit fans were JUST AS MUCH to blame as the players. Artest was being a wise ass laying down on the scorer's table, no doubt, but if someone throws something at him, he has a right to retaliate. How about the person who threw a CHAIR at Jermaine O'Neal?
BTW you think there weren't coverups for NFL players back when they were in college? You don't think that dumb football players got to slide on in to college? What about all the drug problems down at the University of Miami? Come on, it's not just the NBA that has the problem.
I'm just a basketball fan, plain and simple.
I think Artest will intentionally attack a fan or coach to purposely get the rest of the season off.
ALinChainz
11-20-2004, 08:56 PM
The league flourished during the Bird-Magic-Jordan era.
Be a long time before we see that again, that style of play.
LoungeMachine
11-20-2004, 08:59 PM
Lifetime ban for any player who enters the stands.
'nuff sed.
Also, lifetime ban for any mouthbreathing fan who throws ANYTHING at a palyer/coach/bench/floor
Fucking spoiled idiots
Va Beach VH Fan
11-21-2004, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by Lou
That can be applied to any sport, to a lot of players.
I generally don't defend players when fights happened but you know, those Detroit fans were JUST AS MUCH to blame as the players. Artest was being a wise ass laying down on the scorer's table, no doubt, but if someone throws something at him, he has a right to retaliate. How about the person who threw a CHAIR at Jermaine O'Neal?
BTW you think there weren't coverups for NFL players back when they were in college? You don't think that dumb football players got to slide on in to college? What about all the drug problems down at the University of Miami? Come on, it's not just the NBA that has the problem.
I'm just a basketball fan, plain and simple.
I don't disagree with much of what you said, but lemme point some things out to you....
The Detroit fans should be held accountable for their actions, no doubt about that....
However, let's start with the initial problem, after the on-court scuffle was broken up....
A fan throws a plastic cup at Artest, now what are his options ??
Get up, and point out the offender to security ?? Well, even if he would have done that, he would have gotten the wrong guy....
Because, he chooses option #2, AND GOES AFTER THE WRONG GUY.... The guy who threw the cup was the one to the left of the dorky white boy (WHO WAS STILL HOLDING HIS OWN DRINK) who Artest decides to go after.....
So Artest has made a terrible decision right off of the bat.... And this is where you are wrong, HE HAS TO BE SMARTER THAN THAT, HE CANNOT RETALIATE....
But most likely he grew up a thug, I can understand that....But I don't want to place this entirely on Artest....
I hold Steven Jackson just as accountable.... Jackson doesn't attempt to break up the fight, he's throwing haymakers at other fans.....
As for O'Neal, yes agreed, the fan who threw the chair should defintely be prosecuted for assault, no doubt....
But if you're gonna do that, you better make O'Neal accountable for coming from halfcourt and coldcocking the fan along the sidelines....
It's not only the NBA, that's fucking obvious....
You have your Ray Lewis', Jamal Lewis', Janikowki's in the NFL, you have your Mike Danton's in the NHL, and so on....
I also agree that many of today's major college football programs are littered with the same criminal element....
Today's society, as I said before, is one where professional athletes with criminal records are commonplace...
But the NBA has the distinction of having the vast majority of it's overall percentage being in trouble with the law over and over....
There's a lot of blame to go around for the brawl, including security which did a pretty lame job in my opinion. Hard as it is, yes the players had to exhibit self-control.
I think any fan who threw something, if a season ticket holder, should have their season tickets revoked. Anyone else who threw something should be at least fined.
POJO_Risin
11-21-2004, 02:27 PM
No doubt...the fans are A problem...but remember...they are a product of the game...players shouldn't have to worry about getting pelted with booze...although most would certainly like it...
I agree with Lou in that the Detroit security should be held accountable...maybe moreso than the fans in that if you have good security...that's on the job...and not some dumb whore in a blue shirt...the minute Artest lays on that table...they are alert...because they are fucking paying attention...but...
Artest gets hit with the beer...and is in the stands in a second...
Yeah...sure...you don't think...don't have time to think...and just react...but at some point...you have to think to yourself..."What the fuck am I doing here..."
Most NORMAL fucking people think that because they have restraints in place at a young age...or...better yet...have restraints throughout life because of their standing...
unfortunately...due to the Lewis' and the Jayson Williams'...and all of the money that's being thrown around...a lot of those restraints are taken away...so these fucking guys aren't held accountable...and start thinking..."I can do anything..."
They may not be thinking that all the time...but it's there...it's part of the human psyche called habit. I don't agree with parents that bitch about watching the wrong TV shows because it's their job to stop them from watching the wrong shit...but fact of the matter is that it's fact that if you continually see something (ie...pro athletes literally getting away with murder), your psyche/expectations change...it may be a blurred line...but nonetheless...things change...
for Artest, it's obvious that this fucking guy doesn't have restraints...could you imagine going to your boss and saying...I need a month or so off so I start another business...then I want to come back? Try it...see what happens...
Artest is in a land of Narnia...and what he fucking needs is someone in authority to slap his bitch ass around...most of these guys need what every fucking normal person gets in life...a fucking slap in the face when the don't do what they need to do to succeed...
you take basketball out of these guys life...and they aren't just not successful...but they are felons...and that's the problem here...
You can talk about college football in the same way for the most part...but...in the same respect...you have some leaders out there in college football...who run their programs with an iron fist...and succeed...it can be done...and in the long run...it's a lot easier...
Think is...Basketball has fewer players...and tons that haven't seen a college campus (including some who "went" to college)...and if you percentaged them...you'd find that most can't find their asshole from a hole in the ground...
The product of the game sucks ass...Lou...as a basketball fan...hopefully you see that...because if you don't...then you are a product of this...a product of a 1 on 1 game...a clear out game that Jordan made famous...that worked for him because he was so damn good...that so many others try to emulate because they watched him growing up...
unfortunately...success on the bball court mirrors the problems off the court...people taking things into their own hands...instead of using your team...or people around you...to fucking handle the situation...
The NBA is a shoddy product...crap...and it's a direct result of the administration allowing these unpolished people...and good players...into the league...
as it's been said...it's all about the quick buck...
good products take time...
fads end quickly...
well...a good product has turned into a fad...
ALinChainz
11-21-2004, 06:09 PM
This being somewhat of a silly comment ... While I was watching, I kept thinking that Artest had Ben right in front of him and the push had to hurt worse than the drink, he didn't want any.
Jackson was confronted by Rasheed, and so didn't want any, but he weaseled around to little Lindsay Hunter and tried to get bad on him.
But the fans they'll charge and punch. Nice.
Artest gone for the year, just heard it, thought it was only going to be 30 games.
POJO_Risin
11-21-2004, 06:17 PM
That's what they said earlier...Artest should be gone for the year...and then some...
Va Beach VH Fan
11-21-2004, 07:56 PM
NBA takes hard line against Pacers, Artest (gone for year)
Nov. 21, 2004
SportsLine.com wire reports
NEW YORK -- Ron Artest was suspended for the rest of the season Sunday and two of his Indiana Pacers teammates must miss a total of 55 games for fighting with fans in a melee that broke out at the end of a game against the Detroit Pistons.
Overall, the NBA banned nine players from the teams for 143 games, some of the harshest penalties the league ever issued. Artest is the first player to be suspended for nearly an entire season for a fight during a game.
"The message the league sent was so powerful to players that they'll never do that again," Pistons CEO Tom Wilson said.
Indiana's Stephen Jackson was suspended for 30 games and Jermaine O'Neal for 25. Detroit's Ben Wallace -- whose shove of Artest after a foul led to the five-minute fracas -- drew a six-game ban, while Pacers guard Anthony Johnson got five games.
"I'm sick about that for Indiana. I'm devastated for them," Pistons coach Larry Brown said. "And we lost our heart and soul."
Four players were suspended for a game apiece: Indiana's Reggie Miller, and Detroit's Chauncey Billups, Elden Campbell and Derrick Coleman.
All of the suspensions are without pay.
"We have to make the point that there are boundaries in our games," NBA commissioner David Stern said. "One of our boundaries, that have always been immutable, is the boundary that separate the fans from the court. Players cannot lose control and move into the stands."
Artest, O'Neal and Jackson -- who all threw punches at fans in the stands or on the court at the end of the nationally televised Pacers-Pistons game Friday night -- began serving their suspensions Saturday. Indiana, limited to just six players because of the suspensions and injuries, dropped an 86-83 decision to Orlando.
The NBA also has to "redefine the bounds of acceptable conduct for fans attending our games and resolve to permanently exclude those who overstep those bounds," Stern said.
He added that security procedures in all NBA arenas will be reviewed and rules need to be added to prevent a repeat of what happened at Auburn Hills, Mich., on Friday.
For Sunday night's home game against the Charlotte Bobcats -- Detroit's first outing since the melee -- the Pistons doubled the number of armed police to about 20 in the arena and increased other arena security personnel by about 25 percent.
I agree that today's NBA isn't even as good as it was 10 years ago. I remember being dazzled by the Chicago Bulls and Jordan...there's no team that dazzles anymore. Individual players, yeah. Teams, no. I just like the sport of basketball too much where I'm gonna keep watching though.
Carmine
11-22-2004, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by Lou
I agree that today's NBA isn't even as good as it was 10 years ago. I remember being dazzled by the Chicago Bulls and Jordan...there's no team that dazzles anymore. Individual players, yeah. Teams, no. I just like the sport of basketball too much where I'm gonna keep watching though.
ANY college basketball game is a better watch than a pro game!
Go S.U. Orange!!!
F the pros!
Basketball sucks! Van Hagar rules!
Va Beach VH Fan
11-22-2004, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by Carmine Raguzza.
ANY college basketball game is a better watch than a pro game!
Go S.U. Orange!!!
F the pros!
That's a good point Ragu....
I might nag the hell out of Pojo and head on down there for a road trip...
Maybe NC State/UNC ?? NC State/Duke ??
Hmmm, possibilities....
LoungeMachine
11-22-2004, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by Bret
Basketball sucks! Van Hagar rules!
Didn't see you at this month's Mensa meeting there, Brett
go figure.
BITEYOASS
11-24-2004, 04:49 AM
And what the fuck is up with that fan who instigated it (John Greene), winding up on "Good Morning America" and act all innocent and making people believe he was some damn victim?
ALinChainz
11-25-2004, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by BITEYOASS
And what the fuck is up with that fan who instigated it (John Greene), winding up on "Good Morning America" and act all innocent and making people believe he was some damn victim?
Guy is a moron. Has a record, couple DUIs, a loser.
He acts innocent until the part where he has Artest around the waist and punching him from behind on the tape comes up and then he says, "It is what it is, the tape pretty much tells the story."
Lived in Michigan all my life, diehard Piston fan, hate Artest anyways, but this fan was and is a dipshit.
ALinChainz
11-25-2004, 11:32 AM
Ron Artest No P. Diddy
By Charlie Amter
Maybe there is such a thing as bad publicity.
Suddenly infamous Indiana Pacers hoopster Ron Artest's latest CD hit stores yesterday with a whimper.
Artest, who was just suspended for the rest of the NBA season for going into the stands after a drink-tossing fan, has founded his own label, the aptly named Tru Warier. On Tuesday, the label released its first album by its first signing, R&B girl group Allure's Chapter III, which Artest produced.
So far, though, Artest proved he's no P. Diddy when it comes to hyping his work.
Despite Artest's ardent plugs for Allure's latest on shows like NBC's Today, all anyone wants to talk about is last Friday's "basketbrawl," which touched off when the ill-tempered Artest fouled Detroit Piston Ben Wallace and then went into the crowd after a fan chucked a cup at Artest. The resulting melee ended up with Artest receiving the NBA's so-called "death penalty"--a full season on the sidelines. (He is appealing the suspension, which is the harshest ever meted out by the league.)
While Artest packs a wallop on the court, his new album has failed to impact at retail.
Tower Records in Washington, D.C, reported just three discs sold out of 15 in stock Tuesday evening. The chain's Portland, Oregon, store said that not one Allure disc sold in its first day out.
As of Tuesday night, the disc ranked a dismal 13,565 on Amazon.com, with some scathing reviews. "This record is terrible in every way imaginable. I was so excited to get this record today because I'm a huge Allure fan from back in the day. But man, this thing sucks. Starting with the packaging which is beyond cheezy...There is absolutely zero soul both in the lyrics and the music. The production is 3rd rate at best."
Aside from the critical blasts, Artest needs to work on getting the right message to the press.
During his Today appearance, Artest seemed visibly uncomfortable with Matt Lauer's grilling about the brawl. Although he became more animated and even cracked a smile while waving a copy of Allure's CD during the segment, he barely remembered to mention the group's name.
Indeed, many news outlets have reported that Artest's own solo rap CD dropped yesterday, not Allure's.
Earlier this month, Artest said: "I've got my album coming out Nov. 23. After the album comes out I'm going to make sure all of my time is focused on winning a championship." (The remark came after Artest set off another mini-controversy when he asked Pacers coach Rick Carlisle for some time off from basketball to promote his musical projects. Carlisle responded by benching the all-star player.)
By "his album," Artest meant Allure's record. But his statement confused fans and the media, who thought it meant the hoopster's own hip-hop CD. Per the Tru Warier Website, Artest's rap album is coming out "soon."
Artest's lack of PR skills may only be rivaled by his lack of A&R skills. New York-based Allure has struggled to find an audience for years. The group formed in the mid-1990s and initially landed on Mariah Carey's vanity imprint Crave. Their 1997 debut record peaked at a weak 108 on Billboard's Hot 200, despite guest cameos from stars like Nas, L.L. Cool J and Carey herself. Allure's second disc also failed to make a dent in the crowded R&B marketplace.
Meanwhile, because of Artest's wild-man image and on-court antics, there's a curiosity factor that could spark interest in his forthcoming rap album, which will be released through his fledgling Connecticut-based label and distributed by the Warner Bros. Music imprint Lightyear.
Artest says he hopes to make the album available online via Tru Warier.com, as well as in stores in the next few weeks. (Artest may want to invest in a new Website before that happens, as the relatively amateurish TruWarier.com was down much of Tuesday night due to heavy traffic.)
The wannabe music mogul hails from the same storied Queensbridge projects in New York that churned out megastars like Nas and Mobb Deep. NBA fans can only hope Artest doesn't embarass them the same way Shaquille O'Neal made wannabe basketball rappers a joke with discs like 1994's Shaq-Fu: Da Return, or worse, Allen Iverson or Kobe Bryant, whose rap albums never made it to retail racks.
Elliot Wilson, editor-in-chief of hip-hop magazine XXL, told the Detroit News Tuesday that Artest may have a rougher time making it in the rap game than he thinks.
"Athletes already have such a bad image [in the music business] with basketball players trying to be rappers, and most of them aren't that good," Wilson said. "There's going to be a stigma against him as a music artist trying to get any level of respect."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=795&e=3&u=/eo/20041124/en_music_eo/15412
SA ME WHO
11-25-2004, 12:22 PM
Only reason I started watching basketball again was that LeBron led the Cavs back to respectibility. I got tired of all these attitudes and all the hot-dogging.
That's why I will always watch hockey over any other sport. Even though I have to agree that the product they put out now is nowhere what it used to be, I think it is still better than average (depending on the game anyway - look at the playoffs last year; one of the best playoff years in recent memory.) And you don't have to suffer through the attitudes and showboating all the time. If there is a fight, the guys fight, it's over, and every one plays.
They just need to get rid of any remaining trapping and keep improving the flow of the game. Hockey RULES!
(Sorry, I know this was a basketball thread, but I couldn't stand to see my beloved hockey being slammed so badly.)
Va Beach VH Fan
11-25-2004, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by SA ME WHO
That's why I will always watch hockey over any other sport.
Oooooooh.....
I feel a Lou response coming.....
Good for you bro....
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