National Guardsmen Say They Are Poorly Trained

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  • Nickdfresh
    SUPER MODERATOR

    • Oct 2004
    • 49125

    National Guardsmen Say They Are Poorly Trained

    November 25, 2004

    Guardsmen Say They're Facing Iraq Ill-Trained
    Troops from California describe a prison-like, demoralized camp in New Mexico that's short on gear and setting them up for high casualties.

    By Scott Gold, Times Staff Writer


    DOÑA ANA RANGE, N.M. — Members of a California Army National Guard battalion preparing for deployment to Iraq said this week that they were under strict lockdown and being treated like prisoners rather than soldiers by Army commanders at the remote desert camp where they are training.

    More troubling, a number of the soldiers said, is that the training they have received is so poor and equipment shortages so prevalent that they fear their casualty rate will be needlessly high when they arrive in Iraq early next year. "We are going to pay for this in blood," one soldier said.

    They said they believed their treatment and training reflected an institutional bias against National Guard troops by commanders in the active-duty Army, an allegation that Army commanders denied.

    The 680 soldiers of the 1st Battalion of the 184th Infantry Regiment were activated in August and are preparing for deployment at Doña Ana, a former World War II prisoner-of-war camp 20 miles west of its large parent base, Ft. Bliss, Texas.

    Members of the battalion, headquartered in Modesto, said in two dozen interviews that they were allowed no visitors or travel passes, had scant contact with their families and that morale was terrible.

    "I feel like an inmate with a weapon," said Cpl. Jajuane Smith, 31, a six-year Guard veteran from Fresno who works for an armored transport company when not on active duty.

    Several soldiers have fled Doña Ana by vaulting over rolls of barbed wire that surround the small camp, the soldiers interviewed said. Others, they said, are contemplating going AWOL, at least temporarily, to reunite with their families for Thanksgiving.

    Army commanders said the concerns were an inevitable result of the decision to shore up the strained military by turning "citizen soldiers" into fully integrated, front-line combat troops. About 40% of the troops in Iraq are either reservists or National Guard troops.

    Lt. Col. Michael Hubbard of Ft. Bliss said the military must confine the soldiers largely to Doña Ana to ensure that their training is complete before they are sent to Iraq.

    "A lot of these individuals are used to doing this two days a month and then going home," Hubbard said. "Now the job is 24/7. And they experience culture shock."

    But many of the soldiers interviewed said the problems they cited went much deeper than culture shock.

    And military analysts agree that tensions between active-duty Army soldiers and National Guard troops have been exacerbated as the war in Iraq has required dangerous and long-term deployments of both.

    The concerns of the Guard troops at Doña Ana represent the latest in a series of incidents involving allegations that a two-tier system has shortchanged reservist and National Guard units compared with their active-duty counterparts.

    In September, a National Guard battalion undergoing accelerated training at Ft. Dix, N.J., was confined to barracks for two weeks after 13 soldiers reportedly went AWOL to see family before shipping out for Iraq.

    Last month, an Army National Guard platoon at Camp Shelby, Miss., refused its orders after voicing concerns about training conditions and poor leadership.

    In the most highly publicized incident, in October, more than two dozen Army reservists in Iraq refused to drive a fuel convoy to a town north of Baghdad after arguing that the trucks they had been given were not armored for combat duty.

    At Doña Ana, soldiers have questioned their commanders about conditions at the camp, occasionally breaking the protocol of formation drills to do so. They said they had been told repeatedly that they could not be trusted because they were not active-duty soldiers — though many of them are former active-duty soldiers.

    "I'm a cop. I've got a career, a house, a family, a college degree," said one sergeant, who lives in Southern California and spoke, like most of the soldiers, on condition of anonymity.

    "I came back to the National Guard specifically to go to Baghdad, because I believed in it, believed in the mission. But I have regretted every day of it. This is demoralizing, demeaning, degrading. And we're supposed to be ambassadors to another country? We're supposed to go to war like this?"

    Pentagon and Army commanders rejected the allegation that National Guard or reserve troops were prepared for war differently than their active-duty counterparts.

    "There is no difference," said Lt. Col. Chris Rodney, an Army spokesman in Washington. "We are, more than ever, one Army. Some have to come from a little farther back — they have a little less training. But the goal is to get everybody the same."

    The Guard troops at Doña Ana were scheduled to train for six months before beginning a yearlong deployment. They recently learned, however, that the Army planned to send them overseas a month early — in January, most likely — as it speeds up troop movement to compensate for a shortage of full-time, active-duty troops.

    Hubbard, the officer at Ft. Bliss, also said conditions at Doña Ana were designed to mirror the harsh and often thankless assignments the soldiers would take on in Iraq. That was an initiative launched by Brig. Gen. Joseph Chavez, commander of the 29th Separate Infantry Brigade, which includes the 184th Regiment.

    The program has resulted in everything from an alcohol ban to armed guards at the entrance to Doña Ana, Hubbard said.

    "We are preparing you and training you for what you're going to encounter over there," Hubbard said. "And they just have to get used to it."

    Military analysts, however, questioned whether the soldiers' concerns could be attributed entirely to the military's attempt to mirror conditions in Iraq. For example, the soldiers say that an ammunition shortage has meant that they have often conducted operations firing blanks.

    "The Bush administration had over a year of planning before going to war in Iraq," said Jonathan Turley, a George Washington University law professor who has acted as a defense lawyer in military courts. "An ammunition shortage is not an exercise in tough love."

    Turley said that in every military since Alexander the Great's, there have been "gripes from grunts" but that "the complaints raised by these National Guardsmen raise some significant and troubling concerns."

    The Guard troops in New Mexico said they wanted more sophisticated training and better equipment. They said they had been told, for example, that the vehicles they would drive in Iraq would not be armored, a common complaint among their counterparts already serving overseas.

    They also said the bulk of their training had been basic, such as first aid and rifle work, and not "theater-specific" to Iraq. They are supposed to be able to use night-vision goggles, for instance, because many patrols in Iraq take place in darkness. But one group of 200 soldiers trained for just an hour with 30 pairs of goggles, which they had to pass around quickly, soldiers said.

    The soldiers said they had received little or no training for operations that they expected to undertake in Iraq, from convoy protection to guarding against insurgents' roadside bombs. One said he has put together a diary of what he called "wasted days" of training. It lists 95 days, he said, during which the soldiers learned nothing that would prepare them for Iraq.

    Hubbard had said he would make two field commanders available on Tuesday to answer specific questions from the Los Angeles Times about the training, but that did not happen.

    The fact that the National Guardsmen have undergone largely basic training suggests that Army commanders do not trust their skills as soldiers, said David Segal, director of the Center for Research on Military Organization at the University of Maryland. That tension underscores a divide that has long existed between "citizen soldiers" and their active-duty counterparts, he said.

    "These soldiers should be getting theater-specific training," Segal said. "This should not be an area where they are getting on-the-job training. The military is just making a bad situation worse."

    The soldiers at Doña Ana emphasized their support for the war in Iraq. "In fact, a lot of us would rather go now rather than stay here," said one, a specialist and six-year National Guard veteran who works as a security guard in his civilian life in Southern California.

    The soldiers also said they were risking courts-martial or other punishment by speaking publicly about their situation. But Staff Sgt. Lorenzo Dominguez, 45, one of the soldiers who allowed his identity to be revealed, said he feared that if nothing changed, men in his platoon would be killed in Iraq.

    Dominguez is a father of two — including a 13-month-old son named Reagan, after the former president — and an employee of a mortgage bank in Alta Loma, Calif. A senior squad leader of his platoon, Dominguez said he had been in the National Guard for 20 years.

    "Some of us are going to die there, and some of us are going to die unnecessarily because of the lack of training," he said. "So I don't care. Let them court-martial me. I want the American public to know what is going on. My men are guilty of one thing: volunteering to serve their country. And we are at the end of our rope."
  • DEMON CUNT
    Crazy Ass Mofo
    • Nov 2004
    • 3240

    #2
    DIE FOR OIL, BITCH!
    Banned 01/09/09 | Avatar | Aiken | Spammy | Extreme | Pump | Regular | The View | Toot

    Comment

    • Nickdfresh
      SUPER MODERATOR

      • Oct 2004
      • 49125

      #3
      Ha hah, actually it's not funny. They could at least give these guys the proper training to deal with the threats they face! How much does 5.56mm ammunition cost anyways?!?

      They can't even get a day off for Thanksgiving. This NM Guard commander sounds like a real mindless, chicken-shit prick.

      Comment

      • DEMON CUNT
        Crazy Ass Mofo
        • Nov 2004
        • 3240

        #4
        It's because they really don't give a shit about the soldiers. It's about OIL and CASH.

        Notice how none of the Bible thumping Bush-tards have not responded to this thread?
        Banned 01/09/09 | Avatar | Aiken | Spammy | Extreme | Pump | Regular | The View | Toot

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        • blueturk
          Veteran
          • Jul 2004
          • 1883

          #5
          It's pretty fucking bad when families have to buy body armor for soldiers.You'd almost think that Dubya doesn't know anything about being in a war....

          Comment

          • BigBadBrian
            TOASTMASTER GENERAL
            • Jan 2004
            • 10620

            #6
            Originally posted by blueturk
            It's pretty fucking bad when families have to buy body armor for soldiers.You'd almost think that Dubya doesn't know anything about being in a war....
            Go research the military appropriations system. That leads you back to the Clinton Administration.
            “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

            Comment

            • Cathedral
              ROTH ARMY ELITE
              • Jan 2004
              • 6618

              #7
              Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
              DIE FOR OIL, BITCH!
              I suppose you walk everywhere, or ride a bike?
              Do you own anything made of plastic?
              The list goes on, but the fact is, if you are a consumer of petroleum products, you cannot wage that argument without being a hypocrite.

              I agree that our involvement in the middle east has a bit to do with oil.
              But not to steal the oil that belongs to those nations.
              I believe it was the Democrats who suggested we take oil to pay for the war in Iraq, not the Republicans, who in fact said that we would not make Iraq pay us back for the liberal proposed "Loan" as it were.

              I'm a tax payer, and i have no beefs with my contribution going to help Iraq become a free and productive nation. I am also aware that there are those who oppose it, and it is your right to do so.

              We have to protect our interests over-seas unless you want a gallon of gas to cost you $10.00.

              Personally, I'd like to see our dependance on oil eliminated. but the problem is that it is big business and that will apparently not happen until the worlds supply is all but depleated, which by the way isn't Liberal or Conservative, it's just a fact of life in America.

              Comment

              • Cathedral
                ROTH ARMY ELITE
                • Jan 2004
                • 6618

                #8
                On topic:
                I think our National Guard should be utilized here at home to protect the homefront.
                They are ill-trained to be thrust into a battle of such massive proportions without extensive re-training efforts being undertaken.

                Comment

                • LoungeMachine
                  DIAMOND STATUS
                  • Jul 2004
                  • 32555

                  #9
                  Originally posted by BigBadBrian
                  Go research the military appropriations system. That leads you back to the Clinton Administration.
                  Oh for CHRIST'S sake.

                  What a fucking idiotic defense.


                  Drink the kool ade B3
                  Originally posted by Kristy
                  Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
                  Originally posted by cadaverdog
                  I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

                  Comment

                  • LoungeMachine
                    DIAMOND STATUS
                    • Jul 2004
                    • 32555

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Cathedral
                    On topic:
                    I think our National Guard should be utilized here at home to protect the homefront.
                    They are ill-trained to be thrust into a battle of such massive proportions without extensive re-training efforts being undertaken.

                    It's all Clinton's fault

                    -BigBadBrian
                    Originally posted by Kristy
                    Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
                    Originally posted by cadaverdog
                    I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

                    Comment

                    • Cathedral
                      ROTH ARMY ELITE
                      • Jan 2004
                      • 6618

                      #11
                      When the blood is spilling, blame means so little to me. We need to fix that which places our troops at a disadvantage.

                      Comment

                      • John Ashcroft
                        Veteran
                        • Jan 2004
                        • 2127

                        #12
                        Uh, training has always been an issue in all branches of the military (whether they be active or reserve). Anytime the pace of operations increases, training gets put on the back-burner. It's just a simple fact. And it's also a necessary one. Regardless, they are still much better trained than any other military on the planet. Period. And it has nothing to do with whether or not the military commanders "care about" their soldiers. To make a statement like that shows just how clueless you are to military matters.

                        Comment

                        • BigBadBrian
                          TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                          • Jan 2004
                          • 10620

                          #13
                          Originally posted by LoungeMachine
                          Oh for CHRIST'S sake.

                          What a fucking idiotic defense.


                          Drink the kool ade B3
                          The mention of the word "Clinton" has the liberals whining at his defense. Shameful and funny at the same moment.
                          “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

                          Comment

                          • Nickdfresh
                            SUPER MODERATOR

                            • Oct 2004
                            • 49125

                            #14
                            Originally posted by LoungeMachine
                            It's all Clinton's fault

                            -BigBadBrian
                            Come on, he's only been out of office four years now! Of course it's still his fault!

                            Comment

                            • BigBadBrian
                              TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                              • Jan 2004
                              • 10620

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Nickdfresh
                              Come on, he's only been out of office four years now! Of course it's still his fault!
                              I figured you wouldn't understand.
                              “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

                              Comment

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