Best quarterback in football?

[Bob_R]

Present day not history.

I'd have to say Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. Chad Pennington is a star just ready to shine.

[ALinChainz]

Peyton Manning.

Brady has the rings, hard to beat. But a lot of help, a defense, etc.

Manning is simply going off. They spent the entire off season, never huddling up in any kind of camp, practice or drill.

Other than the sack he took week one versus the Patriots, he has been nearly flawless.

We're looking at 50+ TD passes.

[Warham]

Brady has the rings, so he's better than Manning.

I'll always insist that Montana was better than Marino as well.

[POJO_Risin]

Just because you win Super Bowls...doesn't make you a better quarterback...

That would make Bradshaw top 2 or 3...and that's just ridiculous...

Montana's team was better than Miami's...

but a better pure quarterback than Marino?...Montana?

no way...

I'm curious...I'm betting most people that are saying Brady in here would also say that Barry Sanders is better than Emmitt Smith...

who has more rings there?

It's Manning...the same way that Sanders was the better back...

nuff said...

[Brett]

Personally I think Brady is better than Manning.

Absolutely Montana was better than Marino.

[POJO_Risin]

Based on what?...

I'm not saying I disagree...

well...yes I am...

[POJO_Risin]

You don't think Montana had a better team around him?

For the most part...better receivers...better line...well...maybe not a better line...

but a better offense situated around a slant passing game?

[ALinChainz]

One thing Montana always had ... a running game and pass catching fullbacks.

Marino did not.

Dilfer won a ring ...

[POJO_Risin]

Yeah...how many times did Roger Craig roll up near 2000 all purpose yards?

Wendell Tyler for awhile...

Rathman...

I'm forgetting someone...

[Warham]

I think Montana was better even if he didn't win four.

[POJO_Risin]

So if rings don't matter...

then how can you say Montana?

he was more accurate because of the offense he ran...

but Montana had more td's...and more yards...

[Warham]

Terry Bradshaw was a hell of a quarterback, too.

[POJO_Risin]

Bradshaw was a good deep ball qb...

plain and simple...but he had Swann and Stallworth...

he was good...but not comparable to some of the others...

I say Manning better than Brady...

I say Marino better than Montana...

I say Bradshaw below all three...

in a strict quarterbacking sense...

Marino had all the intangibles that Montana had...just didn't have the same type of team...

[WARF]

Fuck all the statistics...

If you wanna win a superbowl... you need Tom Brady.

Fran Tark... Dan Marino... Peyton Manning... all monsters statistically...

But ZERO superbowl rings...

I gotta go with Brady!

[POJO_Risin]

Okay...than Emmitt Smith is the best back all time...

[POJO_Risin]

and you don't need Tom Brady...you need any short armed smart qb...Brady was just at the right place...at the right time...

he's a victim of circumstance...

[Warham]

Can't just go with statistics to grade athletes.

Montana had the best intangibles of anybody to play pro football.

Brady has similar intangibles. Also, nobody can say that Brady had a great offense to win the Superbowl last year. He had a poor running game. Sometimes you just have to have 'it'.

[Bob_R]

Montana was definetly better than Marino.

[POJO_Risin]

THEY NEVER RAN THE BALL!!!!

They threw five yard passes all game...

christ...

they have good receivers...great tight ends...and a good game plan...

no doubt you have to have intangibles...

no doubt...

but if Montana played on a different team...those intangibles would have gotten him a third string job...period...

Brady?

The only reason why he started period was because Bledsoe got hurt bad enough to give him a shot...

or...

we'd probably never know about him...

if your intangibles can't get you the job in the first place...you can't make a case that it's the reason why he's better...

and if you don't think Marino had intangibles...

or Tarkington had intangibles...

or hell...Archie Manning had intangibles...then you don't know the game...

intangibles only work...when you are on the right team...at the right time...

Manning would be good on any team...with any receivers...do you think Stokley...or Wayne are really that good?

no...way...

Manning makes it happen...gets them to the playoffs every year with a shit defense...

intangibles make me laugh...because people assume you only have them when you win the whole dance...which is ridiculous...

the number 1 reason why they have won 2 out of 3 is simple...

Defense...

and Brady makes few mistakes...

period...

he's better than a not make a mistake qb...

but he's not much...it's the system...period...

And there is no way you can say difinitively that Montana was better than Marino...

although...their stats are close enough...you can look at the rings as a deciding factor to break a tie...

I just think Marino is the greatest pure quarterback to ever play...

and Manning is following those footsteps...

nobody yet has had the balls to throw up the EXACT OPPOSITE stance most of you take on the Sanders/Smith battle...

you can't vote one way for QB...and the other for the RB...makes no sense...

[MAX]

ELWAY!!!!!

And fuck the lot of you who disagree.

[JBall008]

I know there can only be one best, BUT if I were a GM....

The one quarterback I would take to win that important game: Farve

The one that will rack up the wins over a season and get my team a number one seed in the playoffs: Brady

The one that has stepped right in and is going to make it so I don't have to worry about a starting qb for many years: Ben Rothelisberger

[Island Boy]

At this point in time..............Manning!!!!!


But in this era Brady will never be has good as Farve.

Put ole Tom on the Bengals and see how good he does there.:lol:

And all this is coming from a HUGE Michigan fan who likes Brady.

[DrMaddVibe]

Dan Fouts.

[DLR7884]

Heath Shuler (sp.?).

DLR7884
He had a good game once, I think.

[DLR7884]

By the way, rings are nice but don't make one QB "better" than another.

Trent Dildo.
Doug Williams.
Jim McMahon.

All were Superbowl winning QB's.

You guys are saying you'd rather have one of them instead of Marino, Kelly, or Tarkenton?

Didn't think so.

Manning is the best QB in the game by far. The guy has a fucking 6-1 TD to INT ratio.

Do you know how hard it is to throw 30 TD's and have that good of a ratio?

DLR7884
Brady is great too, but Manning is a better QB.

[Warham]

Yeah, but the thing is...

Brady has good stats. Those guys didn't.

Brady's thrown for at least 60% in every full season, plus he's had a career TD-INT ratio of 87-46 so far.

Manning's a great player, but until he wins the big one he's not the best.

I'm Barry Sanders' biggest fan, but he's not the best ever. Payton and Brown are above mainly because of the championships. Emmitt Smith is a great back with the championships, but he gets docked a few notches for sticking around WAY too long. Brown, Payton and Sanders all knew when to retire.

[DLR7884]

DOES JERRY RICE KNOW WHEN TO RETIRE?

HE HAS PLENTY OF RINGS, AND IS THE BEST EVER AT HIS POSITION HANDS DOWN.

IS HE KNOCKED DOWN A PEG BECAUSE HE'S A PIG HEADED BABY WHO JUST WANTS TO PAD HIS STATS?

DLR7884
YOUR ARGUMENTS MAKE NO SENSE.

[Warham]

Jerry Rice should have retired a few years ago.

Yes, he is the best wide receiver ever, and he does get knocked down a notch for staying around, but when you are ten notches higher than the next best WR ever, it doesn't matter.

Why don't they make sense? It's how I grade 'em. I think I am an accurate grader of who's the best ever.

[conmee]

I'm pretty sure Pojo, you know who my vote is for... lol.... I think the conversation needs to start with "All QBs with at least 2 rings, please stand up." lol Because then the process is repeatable, and if a QB can run a system for multiple years, and get multiple SB wins, and put up HOF stats, then those are the folks to consider the greatest... Montana, Elway, Bradshaw, and jury's out on Brady until he's had a longer career.

Basically, it's like this: Bradshaw, with mediocre talent, some would say, still managed to guide a team to multiple SBs, unlike some of the 1 Hit Wonders like Dilfer (who was asked to simply not LOSE the game, whereas Bradshaw, Montana, Elway, could WIN the game). So true, it isn't simply one ring, but when you have a QB with 2 rings, the list is much shorter, and I don't seem to see any 'lucky bastards' on that list like the one-ringers... lol... and Favre is certainly the best 1-ringer...

So, now I'm rambling like Pojo... lmao

Anyhow, Montana won it at the college level where passing wasn't exactly high on the Irish list of things to do, and he won at the pro level... and for all those weapons that he had, you still had to have the QB with both the tangibles and intangibles to make the play, scramble for a few yards, stay in the pocket and deliver "The Catch", or roll out to the right, as it were... lol... Bradshaw still had to deliver the ball to Swann so he could jump 10 feet in the air and make spectacular catches, etc...

Guys like Marino and Manning (remains to be seen) are great FANTASY players, but Manning has what? ONE PLAYOFF WIN to his name, or is it two now? lol Prior to last year, they hadn't even SNIFFED a playoff win... lol

Elway has the best case for greatest because the SBs he got the Broncos to he did ON HIS BACK... once he had the running game and quality receivers and a good coach with a great offensive plan, and decent defense, he put back-to-back SB wins together....

So I don' tknow what the hell I'm trying to make a point of now that I've rambled on and my girlfriend is watching those dumbasses on Charmed... lol... but simply put: Montana is the greatest (GO IRISH!!!) and Elway is greatest 1b.... they are the top two... without doubt... if you want stats, Marino and Manning are the greatest... and I'm guaranteeing that Manning NEVER wins a Super Bowl... you heard it here first... lol.. he's just another in a long line of guys like Fouts, and, uh... other guys... who are built for the regular season, but not the post-season... lol


Uh, at least the Irish got into the Insight.com bowl... lol

GO IRISH!!!
GO CHARGERS!!!

Icon.

[Bill Lumbergh]

This is ridiculous. Miami had NO defense in Marinos prime years, not to mention no running game. Marino beats Montana hands down.

[Bill Lumbergh]

Like Pojo said, are you gonna tell me that Emmitt is better than Barry.........he has 3 rings and the rushing record........what a bunch of bullshit.

[DLR7884]

No shit.

People let Superbowl rings blind them when it comes to ranking players against one another.

DLR7884
Some players get stuck on shit teams.

[Warham]

I don't care about the rings.

I think Barry was better than Emmitt, and I think Montana is better than Marino. I also think Marino is better than Bradshaw.

No Superbowl cloud of judgement on my part.

[Brett]

Barry Sanders pisses on Emmitt Smith. Eric Dickerson pisses on Emmitt Smith. And how many rings to those guys have? Emmitt Smith was truly the product of environment.

Rings or no rings, Montana is a better QB than Marino absolutely.

[POJO_Risin]

Based on WHAT THEN?

Did Montana have a better arm?

Did Montana have more yards?

Did Montana have more td's?

Would Montana have done HALF of what Marino did with that team? What did Duper and Clayton do outside of Miami? Nothing...unless you count cocaine...

Montana? Always had a stable of receivers...from Soloman to Clark to Rice...hell...Taylor was awesome as well...

How many all-pro receivers did Marino have?

If you take the rings out of the equation...it's not even a ballgame...

Marino by a mile...

in the SAME way you all are saying Sanders is better that Emmitt...you can't have it both ways...

[Warham]

But by your standards, Emmitt Smith is better than Jim Brown...

[Brett]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
Based on WHAT THEN?

Did Montana have a better arm?


Um, Jeff George has a better arm than Marino. Is he the best QB of all-time?


Did Montana have more yards?

So you're penalizing Montana for not playing as long, nor not needing to throw every down?


Did Montana have more td's?

Again, so what? Who cares. Who has a higher passing efficiency? Who threw for a higher percentage? Who threw less INT's? We can go around and around with stats.


Would Montana have done HALF of what Marino did with that team? What did Duper and Clayton do outside of Miami? Nothing...unless you count cocaine...

Duper and Clayton were pretty fucking good. Montana had pretty decent success in Kansas City even when he was old and his team definitely sub-par at the receiver position.


Montana? Always had a stable of receivers...from Soloman to Clark to Rice...hell...Taylor was awesome as well...

How many all-pro receivers did Marino have?

Again, so what? Unless you have someone who can get the ball to them consistently it means very little. Duper and Clayton were All-Pro in their primes.


in the SAME way you all are saying Sanders is better that Emmitt...you can't have it both ways...

Sanders is better than Emmitt, because he's a far better running back. That's the end of that, and yeah it can go both ways.

If I was starting a team and had to pick between Marino and Montana, I'm taking Montana.

[Dave's PA Rental]

Dont get me started about Peyton fucking Manning...

I would love to see how many TD's he throws into the endzone compared to the number that get caught at the 30 and then ran into the endzone thanks to a tremendous effort by the receiver.

Did you SEE some of the receptions that his receivers made in the last few weeks? Fingertip grabs just off the turf, dives, 30+ yards after the catch...

Now im not saying that Tom Brady's stats have never benefited from Troy Brown's YAC...

You want to talk about who is the best QB on paper? Its Manning. He can have all the regular season MVP's...I'll take Brady and Super Bowl MVP's.

At the end of the Pat's game this year, Manning drove down the field at the end of the game. They were in field goal range. ALL MANNING HAD TO DO WAS TO NOT GET SACKED OUT OF FIELD GOAL RANGE...so what happens? He doesnt look to his right and he gets PLOWED by Willie McGinnest for a 15 yard loss. And the kicker misses the field goal. He will always be a chump in my eyes until he can win the big one.

[superdave]

This is not a frigging NFL/ESPN site, this site is for the greatest frontman is rock history. Get this crap outta here!!!!!

[Dave's PA Rental]

hey, stupid. This is the forum where we talk sports...go to Main for VH/Roth talk...

[SRK]

Morino was the best of the two as far as pure Qb skills.

[POJO_Risin]

Originally posted by Warham
But by your standards, Emmitt Smith is better than Jim Brown...

MY STANDARDS?

Jesus Christ Warham...I'm not the one setting the standard that Rings are what decides a great quarterback...Montana supporters are...of which i am NOT one...

My standards are that Barry is the best pure runner to ever play...

and that Montana is the best pure passer to ever play...

that fits...

but I don't get how people on here can say that Barry is the best runner...and in the same breath...say that Montana is the best qb...when the ONLY case you can make for Montana is that he's won rings...

that's my point here...

[SRK]

Morino never had half the team around him that Montana had...no running game ..no defense...and still able to put up those numbers, its really amazing if you think about it...As far as SUPER BOWLS...I don`t care how great you are if you don`t have a good team around you ...you will not win a SUPER BOWL....GREAT TEAMS WIN SUPER BOWLS ...NOT A GREAT PLAYER ...ask Barry Sanders

[POJO_Risin]

Oh jesus christ...Jeff George...yeah...okay...he should be in this conversation...

You can't pick apart ALL of Marino's tangibles...period...

it's the combination of all of them...period...

yeah...you can say strong arm by itself...and bring George into the conversation...but unfortunately for your side...George's statistics don't match up...

Unfortunately for your side as well...Marino was more than just a strong arm and quick release...

The George comment is assinine...

And Brett...are you really going to say that Montana...yardage wise...even breathes in the same park as Marino?...you are joking...utterly joking...just for the sake of humoring this idiocy...Marino has 61,000 fucking yards...Montana has 40,000...

Montana averaging 3,000 yards...would have had to freakin' 7 more years to get close...that's ridiculous...Montana NEVER had a 4,000 yard season...Marino had 6 seasons of over 4 grand...one over 5...

and Duper and Clayton were never good anywhere except Miami...while Rice proves that Young was at least as good as Montana...that Montana didn't make his receivers the way Marino did...

Name one receiver that played for Miami that was any good anywhere else...

none...

Please don't go anywhere with the Marino having to throw every fucking down...he never had a back that kept him from having to throw...not to mention the fact that 80% of Montana's throws were 5 yard slants...that doesn't hold Brett...and you know it...

As far as %'s go...yeah...when you throw the ball 5 yards in front of you...you have a higher percentage...as well as less int's...you're talking about a system...obviously downfield passers throw more picks...

You can't stat me to death...because Marino's stats are head and shoulders ABOVE freakin' Montana's...

Montana had success in KC? If I remember...he was hurt...missed a shiteload of games...and again...threw that damn dink shit...

Alright...alright...I'll give you Duper and Clayton...they were pretty good...

[POJO_Risin]

No my friend...the Emmitt/Sanders deal is the big deal...

Emmitt and Montana...consistent...better talent...more rings...

Sanders and Marino...better pure players...no talent around them...had to carry their teams...period...

Montana's trendy...the easy pick...

if you go with Rings a no brainer...

if you take out the rings...and still say he's the better qb...you don't know the game...

[POJO_Risin]

Christ...Tom Brady...mother of christ...

this can't be a real conversation...

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by DLR7884
No shit.

People let Superbowl rings blind them when it comes to ranking players against one another.

DLR7884
Some players get stuck on shit teams.

Bartkowski comes to mind....saw him throw a ball endzone to endzone once...I think it was on the old "Superstars" show.

Not a "greatest" candidate by far, but he deserved better than Rankin Smith's joke of a franchise.

Accurate as hell and tough as nails.

[Warham]

Montana had a 3,944 season and a 3,910 yard season. Pretty damn close to 4,000 yards.

Marino averaged 253 yards passing per game/career.

Montana averaged 211 yards passing per game/career.

Not a great difference, especially when you realize how many yards were chewed up by Roger Craig and Tom Rathman on the ground.

[POJO_Risin]

Not a great difference?

What's 40 yards a game over the span of a season?...just out of curiousity?

650 yards or so?

Nah...not that big a deal...lmfao...

[POJO_Risin]

don't forget...Craig had a shiteload of catches...

[Warham]

Yeah, so did Keith Byers.

[MAX]

Elway!!! Throw that ball!!!!

Sorry but he's the man. No questions and finished his career with a storybook ending.

http://www.sportsattic.com/nflphoto/photos4/Elway,John27.jpg

[Bill Lumbergh]

Keith Byars? He wasnt there for long at all.........Dan never had a 1,000 yard rusher behind him UNTIL Karim AbdulJabbar, and he fumbled 1000 times as well...............

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by MAX
Elway!!! Throw that ball!!!!




Bullshit.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/packer/img/news/jan04/favre-jp104.jpg

[MAX]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Bullshit.


Still bitter, eh? ;)

http://www.jsonline.com/packer/art/98sb/sbslot.gif


SUPERBOWL XXXII

Sunday January 25, 1998

Denver Broncos 31

Green Bay Packers 24


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/superbowl/32/photogallery/gameaction/full/al_bello_favre.jpg

http://www.packersnews.com/photogallery/superbowl32/images/0125supere250381.jpg

http://www.omegagrafix.com/broncos/elwaysb.jpg


Cheers!!!

:gulp:

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by MAX
Still bitter, eh? ;)



No. I got over that when fucking Holmgren left Green Bay. Bastard.

Favre's still better than John-boy, though. ;)

:gulp:

[Bob_R]

Montana wasn't great because of the 49'ers. The 49'ers were great because of Montana.

You can't take things away from him because he played on a solid team.

4 rings, 3 MVP's in those SB's.

And more amazingly in those 4 SB's:

All victories

11 TD's

0 INT's

I repeat 0 INT's

[DLR7884]

Yeah, this thread is getting old.

DLR7884
I'm done with it.

[conmee]

Pojo also wanted me to mention Phil Simms and Jim Kelly... as top picks... lmao

GO IRISH!!!
GO CHARGERS!!!


Icon.

:monkey:

[POJO_Risin]

Chris Chandler?

Jim Harbough?

Mike Tomczak?

[MAX]

Rick Mirer?

Jeff George?

Elvis Grbac?

[Brett]

Shawn King?

David Klingler?

Andre Ware?

[Guitar Shark]

As far as the Montana - Marino debate goes, I think it really depends on what is being asked. Montana had a better career. Marino was a slightly more talented quarterback.

Montana was better based on the way their careers went. I value championships more than individual passing statistics.

But, if I were picking a team from scratch, I'd pick Marino. Montana's success was based on (a) superior talent around him and (b) an offensive system perfectly suited to his skills. I believe that if you gave Marino the same advantages Montana had, he'd have been as good or better. (Of course, the offensive system perfect for Montana would likely not be the offensive system perfect for Marino.)

[POJO_Risin]

The question is...would it be perfect for Ron Powlous?

[Guitar Shark]

lol...

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
The question is...would it be perfect for Ron Powlous?

A rare PA boy that didn't pan out....

And you spelled it wrong, teacher....

[POJO_Risin]

Yep...and welcome Va...a newcomer from the VHMailing list...

Damn you...you spelled it wrong...lmfao...

[DLRDUDE]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by EVH FANATIC
[B] Present day not history.

Didn't take long for people to get away from "
present day"

McNabb hands down and oh, how about Brunell :roll:

[ALinChainz]

You have to say that some of Montana's success is thanks to Bill Walsh.

Who can say what his career would have been like elsewhere.

Would he have still been good, I believe it.

Would he have been great? Hard to say. He was built for the WCO.

Didn't need a big arm.

[POJO_Risin]

The question is this though Al...

1. Would he have gotten a chance anywhere else...remember...he was just a third round pick I believe...

I don't know that he would have...at least...as quickly as he did...

Walsh had him running that offense what...his first or second year?

[Dave's PA Rental]

Pojo...you fall into the trap that so many people do these days...you rely on stats too much and dont consider INTANGEABLE factors that make someone a winner...and to me, the BEST quarterback is the guy who does what it takes to make his team win. (and Im not talking RB's here, because i'll take Barry over Emmitt everytime...) And you really cant assign numbers to those qualities, so they usually dont stand up in an arguement with someone who is armed with all kinds of statistics. But anyone who has watched a season of the NFL could recognize when someone has those intangeable qualities.

Joe Montana was the best quarterback of all time.

Tom Brady is the next Joe Montana.

Fuhgeddabouddit.

[POJO_Risin]

I'm not a stat guy in the least...unless the stats are measurable greater than anyone elses...which Marino's are...

no doubt...Montana had incredible intangibles from the time he started playing the game...no doubt about it...

Favre has those intangibles...

Elway had those intangibles...

You could make a case that Trent Dilfer has some of those intangibles...

Same with Doug Flutie...

WHAT YOU FAIL TO REALIZE...is everything that goes around those intangibles...

the main thing being coaching...

because all the intangibles in the world won't get you a title if your team is set up to win...

Bernie Kosar had those intangibles...

Marino had those intangibles...

but they always had something missing...and it was coaching issue to be frank...

Miami refused to set up Marino with a running game...

and Cleveland...well...couldn't beat Elway...

Look at Jim Kelly...who was brought up sarcastically...the guy had a good arm...good receivers...a great back...a good defense...and ran his own plays...he certainly had intangibles...but folded in the Bowl...which Montana didn't...

Kelly had an offense that was a quick hitter as well...but...it wasn't a West Coast...it was a North/South hit...deep balls mixed with the running game...

Brady? 3-4 good receivers...now a running game to keep him from throwing 50 passes a game...and an undeniably great defense...

and Belicheck has an offense that supports Brady...

now...does Brady have intangibles? You bet your ass he does...but is he a better pure qb than Marino? No fucking way...

Again...I ask you this? What happens if Bledsoe doesn't get hurt? Those intangibles weren't exactly knocking on the door of stardom now...were they?

[POJO_Risin]

and don't shit on Montana by comparing Punky Michigan to him...

that's fucking sacriligious...

[ALinChainz]

Marino wasn't exactly devoid of intangibles himself.

He didn;t really lack for fourth quarter comebacks, and the fake spike play against the Jets will always be one of my favorite plays.

Montana was great, maybe the greatest, but the debate is there for me. Many ways to look at it.

[POJO_Risin]

It is a good debate...no doubt about it...

and the similarities to the Manning/Brady debate are uncanny...

[MAX]

ELWAY!!!!!

THROW THAT BALL!!!!!!!

[stringfelowhawk]

My 2 pennies!

October 17, 1994
K.C. vs Denver Monday Night Football

His scholarship to Notre Dame was secured when in his last game in high school he beat his school's arch rival in the last 2min 30 sec of the 4th quarter. At Notre Dame, twice pulls off late game wins as a sophmore after the starter gets hurt. Both games won in the fourth quarter. Down to Purdue 24-14 with 11 mins to go he wins the game. And if you can't respect his performance in the 1979 Cotton Bowl where he was hypothermic, on bullion cubes to raise his body temp and an IV for being dehydrated, Notre Dame down 34-12 to Houston halfway through the 4th quarter yet he pulls out a 35-34 win. I added those details cause I did a paper on him in high school and they stick out.
You got "The Catch". Superbowl XXIII and countless others. I'm not saying last second wins or rings makes him better cause clearly Elway has more last second wins than both Montana and Marino. I'm saying it didn't matter at what level he played, he was that damn good. So saying the only reason he won 4 superbowls is because of the team he had around him is like saying the Bulls would have won a championship without Micheal Jordan. You can take away his championships, his three superbowl MVP's, Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Dwight Clark, Freddie Soloman, Roger Craig, and Tom Rathman. I'd still take him over Marino. Marino has a stronger arm and he is not someone I would like to play in a superbowl because he is so damn good its scarey. He has all those things that make a quarterback great and he is. But lets not forget his biggest weakness. He has flatfeet, that is why he passed for 61,000 yards. Clayton and Duper were excellent receivers and in 1985 when San Fran played Miami in a superbowl that Miami was heavily favored to win. The niners may have had a better record at 15-1 to Miami's 14-2 but that game was so heavily in favor of Miami that no press really sought out the niners. Every "expert" were so sure Miami was gonna win, because records aside, Miami did have the all around better team that year, that when the game was over it was considered a major upset. Yes, later in Marino's career he carried Miami on his shoulders and they kept wasting money on backs that were not worth a bucket of fresh piss but they were still one of the best teams throughout the 80's and they did not get it done.
Yeah, Walsh's system was perfect for Montana and it certainly deserves a minor mention but he was not running the West Coast Offense in high school or college and he was still deadly so you can not list it as the reason he was as good as he was. I love Marino and always will. He is one of my favorite quarterbacks of all time. I do not want to hear anyone say Young was as good as Montana because he threw to Jerry Rice also. Montana made them a winner like Dave ruled Van Halen. Its easy to take over a damn sports car after its been broken in. Just ask Sambo. And credit is due for going to K.C. so late in his career and still taking them to the AFC Championship game on his back. Yeah, he missed a few games but he carried that team on his shoulders. They had no receivers at all but they had Marcus Allen and an average defense that had Derrick Thomas and Neal Smith but they were so easy to score on if you threw the ball. One more thing: Young threw 6 touchdowns against the Chargers who were a weak ass team just so he could have the record. Unlike Montana's 5 against the Denver Broncos who were a damn good team who just got spanked.

So here you go:

4 Superbowls

800 yards

11 touchdowns

0 Int.

78 % of his passes completed

3 MVP's

Those numbers will never be duplicated. And I think it is incredibly unfair to compare Brady to him. Sure, he has the gift but he needs a few more years to prove he can keep it before being mentioned alongside Montana, Elway, Marino, Bradshaw etc. I believe right now Manning is probably the best all around QB in the NFL but he's got a very good team around him and I don't care how many touchdowns he throws, if he doesn't win a ring he will have a legacy like Marino's. Mechanically you can be the best player that's ever lived but in football, your legacy is determined by your performance and ability to win by making yourself and your teammates great for a moment in time. Whether it be a season or a single game. That is the measure of a champion. Oh! and that Niner vs Dolphin Superbowl, Marino had the greatest single season by any QB in history and he still lost. Breakdown of the October 17, 1994 K.C. vs Denver game is at the HoF under Montana's profile.

One last thing:

If Barry Sanders had played in Dallas, we would all be saying, "Emmitt who"? Cause everybody with a brain knows that Emmitt Smith got that record by running behind that Dallas line for so damn many years while Barry Sanders EARNED his yards by running around and over anybody in his path cause he was unprotected for 10 years and upon retiring he was so close to breaking Walter Payton's record that he would have done it almost 3 years faster than Emmitt Smith did.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
A rare PA boy that didn't pan out....

And you spelled it wrong, teacher....

H
Originally posted by POJO_Risin
Yep...and welcome Va...a newcomer from the VHMailing list...

Damn you...you spelled it wrong...lmfao...

Hi everyone, I just found this website and I really like it !!

Anyone know how I can change my signature so I post the lyrics of "How Many Say I" ???

[Bob_R]

Originally posted by DLRDUDE
[QUOTE]Originally posted by EVH FANATIC
[B] Present day not history.

Didn't take long for people to get away from "
present day"

McNabb hands down and oh, how about Brunell :roll:

Yeah, I noticed but it's been quite interesting regardless.

[Bob_R]

Originally posted by MAX
ELWAY!!!!!

THROW THAT BALL!!!!!!!

Personally I would put Elway at #2 my old friend.

[POJO_Risin]

Wow...you're right...Emmitt Who...yeah...he would have blown without Dallas...

okay...let's look at your assessment of Montana...and carry it over to Emmitt Who...

You talked about the only reason that Emmitt Who did what he did was because of the line in Dallas...well...everyone's so damn haughty about Montana in high school (ps...look up Marino's high school shit before you give one side of it)...

Let's look a bit at Emmitt before he got to Dallas...shall we?

1500 yards his Freshman year...2400 his sophomore year...2900 his junior year...and 1900 his senior year...with a higher yards per carry that season than in any other...with less carries...

Total Record...46-6...he was the team...defenses were all focused on one guy...still managed 2 state titles...and guess what...HE DIDN'T HAVE DALLAS' LINE...oh...and not one of his lineman went on to a major college career...

College...now lets not forget that Florida pretty much blew as in the late 80's...Spurrier didn't come into play until 90...

He stayed until 1989...and had nearly 4,000 yards there...pre Spurrier...and was the ONLY good skill player on that team...EVERY WIN they got in college and high school was all about Emmitt...

so if you are going to bring high school and college into it...you gotta do it for every one...

No...I don't have specific come from behind wins for Emmitt...but I guarantee you...on more than one occasion...Emmitt...pre Dallas...drove the ball down the field on his own...when everyone knew he was going to do it...

You make a good case for Montana however...

Still say Marino is the better qb...

[Dave's PA Rental]

'Punky Michigan'...I love it!

Word in Michael Holley's bood is that Belechick wanted Brady to start that season...and he would have started him in a game or two if Bledsoe kept losing...Bledsoe got hurt so Brady got his chance a few weeks early...

This must be what its like to be a Yankee fan and cant understand why everyone hates Derek Jeter...its jealousy, straight up.

[POJO_Risin]

Jealousy...straight up?

No...but when you compare Brady to Montana...lmfao...

it's like comparing Jeter to...hmmm...Dimaggio...

you just can't...

ESPECIALLY...when you are a punk bitch from Michigan.

Dave...brother...you just can't understand the passionate hate that goes through my blood when ANYONE from the Michigan Wolverines does anything worthwhile...thankfully...it doesn't happen much...

You can't compare Brady to anyone right now...well...maybe Aikman...

Straight up jealousy...if Brady were qbing the Steelers...I'd puke every week...fucking Punk ass Bitch...

[POJO_Risin]

And Jeter?

Why the fuck would anyone want that slappy assclown on their team?...unless you were trying to start a homo clique in the lockerroom...

[Dave's PA Rental]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin

ESPECIALLY...when you are a punk bitch from Michigan.

Dave...brother...you just can't understand the passionate hate that goes through my blood when ANYONE from the Michigan Wolverines does anything worthwhile...thankfully...it doesn't happen much...


Oh yeah, I forgot...you actually watch College Football and take it seriously! ;)

Dont tell me you get all worked up over that media-hyped OSU-Michigan rivalry?

[POJO_Risin]

Yeah...that's it...

kinda like that media hyped Red Sox/Yankee rivalry...

[Dave's PA Rental]

Come to Boston on April 11...try to get within a half mile of Fenway on that day...then you will see what is the biggest rivalry in the WORLD!

And Tom Brady, the greatest quarterback in the NFL, will be there, im sure. As will I! (Hey, COKE-heeeeea!)

[POJO_Risin]

You know...it's funny...

I know a few Red Sox fans...who were actually humble pre Series this year...how could you not be...

one World Series later...

and we find out the truth...

Red Sox fans are just wannabe Yankee fans...

wow...who'd have thunk it...

Seems to be universal...

[Dave's PA Rental]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
You know...it's funny...

I know a few Red Sox fans...who were actually humble pre Series this year...how could you not be...

one World Series later...

and we find out the truth...

Red Sox fans are just wannabe Yankee fans...

wow...who'd have thunk it...

Seems to be universal...

Dude, that cuts me deep...

...if it was true.

Rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for the dealer in Blackjack...

Rooting for the Red Sox is like rooting for truth, justice and the American way...

and I was humble before the series...I NEVER chanted 'Yankees SUCK' before, and I wont chant that now. I do have quite a 'I Hate The Yankees' chip on my shoulder from eight years of enduring the '1918' chant (people think that they have chanted '1918' for 86 years...Yankee fans only started that after they won the World Series in 96...and they should be ashamed of themselves because they ripped off ISLANDER fans' chanting '1940' when they played the Rangers...)

wasnt this thread about Tom Brady, er, um, I mean quarterbacks?

[POJO_Risin]

No...no...no...you misunderstood...

I'm not saying you WANT to root for the Yankees...

I WOULDN'T GO THAT FAR TO ANY FAN OUTSIDE OF THE BRONX...ESPECIALLY A RED SOX FAN...

I was being much kinder than that...

I was just saying Red Sox fans have gone from being humble...to pricks since the series...;)

that's all...

a couple of things...Yankee fans are never ashamed of anything...and are rarely...RARELY original in their thinking...

They watch tv...look for something good in St. Louis...and then bastardize it...

[Bob_R]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
And Jeter?

Why the fuck would anyone want that slappy assclown on their team?...unless you were trying to start a homo clique in the lockerroom...

Jeter's not a good baseball player? And, a homo to boot? C'mon dude.

BTW, he fucked Mariah Carey.

[POJO_Risin]

Is that a good thing?

[POJO_Risin]

Dude...she kinda looks like a mummy with big tits...and she's insane to boot...

[Bob_R]

Yeah she's not my dream girl or anything but she does have big breasts. :)

Hey wait a minute! WTF does this have to do with football?

[POJO_Risin]

Her tits are as big as footballs...

and...back on topic...;)