Fahrenheit 9/11 Up for Peoples Choice Top Award

[DLR'sCock]

http://www.baou.com/newswire/main.php?action=recent&rid=1918


Michael Moore Promises "Polite Speech" if Selected
Official Wire News Desk

Thursday 09 December 2004

Republican threatens boycott of Hollywood if F9/11 wins.
New York, NY - One of the most controversial and provocative films of the year, Fahrenheit 9/11, has been nominated by the People's Choice Awards as the American public's "Favorite Film of the Year."

The five nominees were chosen from a poll of thousands of Americans during November. The other nominees for best film are Spiderman 2, The Incredibles, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (with Jim Carrey), and Shrek 2.

In considering Moore's film, it is the first time a documentary has been nominated for "best film" by the People's Choice Awards.

The People's Choice Awards are considered, among all the awards shows, to be the one which most accurately reflects the "mainstream" public opinion in the United States.

According to a letter published on Moore's website, a group of Republicans have taken out a full page ad in USA Today (and placed a similar one in the Hollywood trade magazine, Variety) proclaiming that "An election is over, but a war of ideas continues." The point of the ad, according to Moore, was to say that while they, as right wing conservatives, were proud of getting rid of Kerry, there was still one more nuisance running around loose they had to deal with-Moore himself!

Moore states that these Republicans have issued a not-so-subtle threat to the Academy Awards voters that, in essence, said don't even THINK about nominating "Fahrenheit 9/11" for Best Picture. According to Moore, Bill O'Reilly recently said that if the Oscars recognize his work this year, Middle America will boycott Hollywood.

Moore's letter ends with the promise to be "nice and polite" if his film is selected.

"I promise, if we win, to give a nice and polite speech," Moore wrote.

Hopefully, that's one promise Moore won't keep.

To vote for Fahrenheit 9/11 visit www.pcavote.com.

Voting is currently underway and will continue through this coming Monday, December 13. Winners will accept their awards live on CBS on January 9, 2005.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Go to Original

People's Choice Awards Nominates "Fahrenheit 9/11" as "Favorite Film of the Year"
By Michael Moore
Michaelmoore.com

Wednesday 08 December 2004

Dear Friends,

May I take a break from our post-election despair to share with you a little piece of happy/silly/cool news?

"Fahrenheit 9/11" has been nominated by the People's Choice Awards as the American public's "Favorite Film of the Year." The five nominees were chosen from a poll of thousands of Americans in mid-to-late November. The other nominees for best film are "Spiderman 2," "The Incredibles," "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" (with Jim Carrey), and "Shrek 2." It is the first time ever a documentary has been nominated for best film by the People's Choice Awards.

The People's Choice Awards are considered, among all the awards shows, to be the one which most accurately reflects the "mainstream" public opinion in the United States.

OK, now, here's the best part: YOU get to vote! Online. Now. Just go to www.pcavote.com/voting/film/f01.shtml, click on the little circle next to "Fahrenheit 9/11" in the "Favorite Movie" category and press the "vote" button. Voting is going on now and continues only through this coming Monday, December 13, at 3:00pm ET, so send an e-mail to your friends and let them know they can vote, too. Winners will accept their awards live on CBS on January 9.

Now, normally I wouldn't make a very big deal out of something like this. It's nice and I'm honored, but it's not exactly the number one priority on any of our minds these days. In fact, when we found out we were nominated over a week ago, I didn't even think to tell you about it or put it up on our website.

But then a group of top Republicans took out a full page ad in USA Today (and placed a similar one in the Hollywood trade magazine, Variety) proclaiming that "An election is over, but a war of ideas continues." The point of the ad was to say that while they, as right wing conservatives, were proud of getting rid of Kerry, there was still one more nuisance running around loose they had to deal with - me! They also issued a not-so-subtle threat to the Academy Awards voters that, in essence, said don't even THINK about nominating "Fahrenheit 9/11" for Best Picture. And Bill O'Reilly recently bellowed that if the Oscars recognize my work this year, Middle America will boycott Hollywood.

Oops. I guess he spoke too soon. Because now along comes Middle America's favorite awards show, the People's Choice, and the People's Choice this year, along with a Spiderman superhero and a lovable green ogre, is a film that apparently continues to resonate throughout the country. The truth about Iraq, Bush, terror and fear. The election has not altered or made irrelevant, unfortunately, a single one of these issues. That they (and the film that dealt with these issues) are still at the forefront of the majority of the public's minds should give serious pause to Mr. Bush as he brags about a nonexistent "mandate" and begins to spend his "political capital."

He may have been (barely) the people's choice on November 2 (Ohio recount excluded), but now the people get to vote again, this time for a movie. It's about the best we can do right now, and, trust me, it won't be long before we start the real work we need to do to get our country back.

Again, go to www.pcavote.com/voting/film/f01.shtml if you want to vote for our film. I promise, if we win, to give a nice and polite speech.

Yours,

Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com
MMFlint@aol.com

[Nickdfresh]

Everybody should view this film.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Everybody should view this film.

I agree. But they choose to FEAR this film. They are so scared of it that they can't even watch. It's like light on cockroaches.

Deep down they know what Bush is doing is wrong. The smart ones do anyway.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
I agree. But they choose to FEAR this film. They are so scared of it that they can't even watch. It's like light on cockroaches.

Deep down they know what Bush is doing is wrong. The smart ones do anyway.

Sad isn't it.? "Conservatives" have a propensity to ignore any negative information that may dissuade their view. That's why the media is "liberal" when it reports bad news.

I don't agree with everything in the film and it certainly has it's flaws, but there is a big kernel of truth to the film.

[WACF]

I just saw it last week.

It was better done than I expected it would be.
Moore seems to just lay it out and draw the lines between the players for you.
Very informative....

I saw "Bowling for Columbine" and I thought it seemed so contrived.

[FORD]

Bowling For Columbine was done in a style more like Moore's old television series TV Nation and The Awful Truth. The hardcore facts are there, i.e. numbers of gun related homicides, but the presentation is done in a humorous way, such as walking into unlocked houses in Canada, just to see if what he heard was true about them leaving their door unlocked. So he definitely had more time to work on the packaging of the message in that movie.

Fahrenheit 9/11 was far more direct, but then it had to be. We are in an emergency situation in this country, on the edge of losing everything America stands for, and roughly half the country - or at least half who bother to vote - just won't open their fucking eyes :(

[twonabomber]

Originally posted by DLR'sCock
According to Moore, Bill O'Reilly recently said that if the Oscars recognize his work this year, Middle America will boycott Hollywood.



go ahead and boycott, it won't make a damn bit of difference, and everyone knows it.

[FORD]

Yeah, and when Mel Gibson releases "Passion Of The Christ II: Jesus Goes Postal" I have a feeling they'll forget all about their boycott :rolleyes:

[Warham]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Sad isn't it.? "Conservatives" have a propensity to ignore any negative information that may dissuade their view. That's why the media is "liberal" when it reports bad news.

I don't agree with everything in the film and it certainly has it's flaws, but there is a big kernel of truth to the film.

Yeah, a 'kernel' is being generous.

[Warham]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
I agree. But they choose to FEAR this film. They are so scared of it that they can't even watch. It's like light on cockroaches.

Deep down they know what Bush is doing is wrong. The smart ones do anyway.

I'm soooo scared.

:rolleyes:

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
I agree. But they choose to FEAR this film. They are so scared of it that they can't even watch. It's like light on cockroaches.

Deep down they know what Bush is doing is wrong. The smart ones do anyway.


Putting the word "cockroaches" in this thread is rather appropriate when it comes to Michael Moore. :gulp:

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Warham
I'm soooo scared.

:rolleyes:

So you have seen it?

Then you know about this:

http://www.nyu.edu/globalbeat/jpg/bush-saudi.jpg

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Putting the word "cockroaches" in this thread is rather appropriate when it comes to Michael Moore. :gulp:

Hayseed!
http://wcuvax1.wcu.edu/~hkane/deliverance.jpg

[Big Train]

I've seen it.....it was the scariest shit ever. There was a scene with this fat man who stole an ice cream truck screaming out of a megaphone. That'll keep you up at night....


We have been up and down Michael Moore lane in several threads. As a conservative, this film,which I saw, did nothing but reinforce the fact that more is an oppourtunist with the distorting capability of the elite propagandists. End of story.

I'm glad he is out speaking again taking a break from having pie all over his face (which I'm sure he finds delicious)...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Putting the word "cockroaches" in this thread is rather appropriate when it comes to Michael Moore. :gulp:

I suppose if calling him a cockroach helps you deal with your hate, then fine. I admit to thinking of the likes of Coulter, Limbaugh, and Hannity that way as well.

As to his "spin" of the movie, well what did you expect?

But lets bottom line it for a moment, hmmmm?

THE MOST DAMAGING PARTS OF THE FILM ARE NOT "SPIN" OR LEFT WING "PROPAGANDA", BUT ACTUAL NEWS FOOTAGE OF WHAT A FUCKING DOLT YOUR COMMANDER IN THIEF IS.

This entire administration stinks. They're war mongers, profiteers, LIARS, and theves*

[ *the preceding rant was brought to you by THIS cockroach]

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Big Train
I've seen it.....it was the scariest shit ever. There was a scene with this fat man who stole an ice cream truck screaming out of a megaphone. That'll keep you up at night....


We have been up and down Michael Moore lane in several threads. As a conservative, this film,which I saw, did nothing but reinforce the fact that more is an oppourtunist with the distorting capability of the elite propagandists. End of story.

I'm glad he is out speaking again taking a break from having pie all over his face (which I'm sure he finds delicious)...

great, BT

more fat jokes

end of YOUR story perhaps, but many of us had OUR beliefs "reinforced" as to just how disgusting the Bushies are

If you make Moore / Fat jokes, should I call Limbaugh a Fat Drug Addict?

Or OReilly a sex perve?

[Big Train]

Come on Lounge, as if you don't already...:) Go right ahead, we are all grown ass people here.

Well, end of the story as I see it...this is a place to voice opinions, no?

[LoungeMachine]

Yes, Bt

And I respect your opinions, regardless of how misguided and myopic they may be.

And I will fight to the death your right to be so wrong.


And Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot


phew, that felt good

[Big Train]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine


And I respect your opinions, regardless of how misguided and myopic they may be.

And I will fight to the death your right to be so wrong.



Likewise Lounge..

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
Hayseed!
http://wcuvax1.wcu.edu/~hkane/deliverance.jpg

Is that your father or your brother? Or one and the same? :D :cool: :D :cool:

[Warham]

I'm glad Michael Moore is out there running his mouth. It'll help the Republicans in '08 as well. Go Moore!

[DEMON CUNT]

These ignorant cons cannot refute the movie so they attack Moore.

All the while sucking up every word dripping from the mouths of (prooven liars) Hannity and O'Really.

[Warham]

How can I refute a cut and paste job?

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Warham
How can I refute a cut and paste job?

Another non-answer from Dummy McChristian!

Maybe James R. Bath will invest some Saudi (Bin Laden family) money into your oil company!

[Big Train]

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5335853/site/newsweek/

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/28/opinion/main626484.shtml

Yea Cunt, I stayed up all night worrying about how we could refute him. Please...

[Warham]

Big Train,

Cunt will take weeks to go through those three links. Don't make him work too hard. You should have posted just one today, then another one after Christmas, then another after New Years.

I suspect he'll continue to post without reading through them. That's his modus operandi.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Big Train


Yea Cunt, I stayed up all night worrying about how we could refute him. Please...

Not really, can you possibly put any of this into your own words?

http://www.agentura.ru/dossier/_bvsa/made-usa/saudi-bush.jpg

From blowingfortruth.com:

An intrepid blogger has assumed the arduous task of transcribing all of F911, since Michael Moore won’t produce a transcript himself.

That's wrong:

[Big Train]

You mean to just spout off without thinking?

[Warham]

Sounds like Cunt.

[Nickdfresh]

Nobody said the film didn't have it's weaknesses, it was hastily put together and there are some logical fallacies in it, but it's over thesis is correct; there are unseemly ties between the Bush Administration and the Saudis:

[/url]

Michael Parker's Journal
Current and Historical Perspectives on Politics, Ethics, Religion, Film, and Life

Monday, October 20, 2003


Ties that Bind: An Update on Saudi Arabia
Two noteworthy articles that demand my attention today-- "Did the Saudis Know About 9-11?" by Mark Follman and "The New Great Game" by Lutz Kleveman.

In Follman’s article, he discusses the content of Gerald Posner’s book "Why America Slept: The Failure to Prevent 9/11." Most interesting is Posner’s allegation that Saudi Arabia and Pakistan knew about the attacks that would hit New York City.

What I appreciate in Follman’s article is a balanced perspective. He contrasts Posner’s views with others who suggest that Posner’s theory is mere conspiracy; "one analyst suggests the Zubaydah charges could be part of a disinformation campaign launched by neoconservatives who believe that the U.S. should decisively break with Saudi Arabia, which they regard as a corrupt, terrorist-supporting state," Follman writes.

Despite the contrasting views, I feel Posner has some great points that deserve further explanation from the Administration.

One of the allegations Posner puts forth is that "Top figures in the Saudi and Pakistani governments had been directly assisting Osama bin Laden for years and knew al-Qaida was going to strike America on Sept. 11. Posner cites two unnamed U.S. government sources, both of whom he asserts are ‘in a position to know,’ who he said gave him separate, corroborating reports. One source is from the CIA and the other is a senior Bush administration official ‘inside the executive branch,’ [Posner] told Salon in an interview."

Regarding the top figures in the Saudi government, Possner writes the following:

... four Saudi princes and the head of Pakistan's air force were deeply involved with Osama bin Laden for years, some of them meeting with him well after al-Qaida began its terror attacks on U.S. targets overseas in the mid-1990s...

How did this intelligence come about?

According to Posner's account, two Arab-American special forces personnel posed as Saudis and took over the questioning of [Abu] Zubaydah at the secret location in Afghanistan. CIA officials observing from another room watched Zubaydah's reaction with amazement: He was visibly relieved to be in "Saudi" hands, and started talking. He named three Saudi princes, recited their private phone numbers, and told his interrogators to call one prince, saying, "He will tell you what to do." That man was King Fahd's nephew Prince Ahmed bin Salman, a London publishing magnate and horse racing aficionado whose thoroughbred War Emblem won the 2002 Kentucky Derby. Zubaydah made clear he was under the protection -- and direction -- of the princes. During the questioning, Zubaydah also fingered Pakistani air force chief Mushaf Ali Mir, suspected to have close ties with some of the most pro-Islamist elements within Pakistan's intelligence agency, the ISI.

What is most strange, and what Possner suggests makes Zubaydah’s information legitimate, is what occurred after Zubaydah’s interrogation.

Shortly after the U.S. inquiry, on July 22, 2002, Prince Ahmed, age 43, died unexpectedly of a heart attack. On the way to Ahmed's funeral the next day, Prince Sultan al-Saud was killed in a single-car crash. A week later the third prince Zubaydah had fingered, Fahd al-Kabir , was found dead 55 miles east of Riyadh -- according to the Saudi royal court he'd "died of thirst" while traveling in the summer heat. Seven months later Pakistani air force chief Mir, his wife and 15 of his closest associates died in a plane crash near Islamabad. The plane had recently passed maintenance inspection, and the weather was clear. According to the Asia Times, "Reports at the time said that the pilot had been changed just minutes before takeoff."

"Zubaydah's interrogation leaves some questions unanswered which I think will eventually be run to ground," he says. "He's recanted his story. He's said he just picked these names out of a hat to spare himself some torture. But is it possible that he picked out three Saudi princes and the head of the Pakistani air force, and then they all just had the bad luck of dying -- the three Saudis within days of each other -- after the U.S. shared the information? And from a blood clot, a car wreck, dehydration and a plane crash? I guess technically it's possible. People do win the lottery. But as I view it, it's extremely unlikely."

The only one of the supposed conspirators of 9/11, revealed by Zubaydah, to survive is Prince Turki. Follman explains Possner’s information about him:

Turki, in fact, did have friendly contacts with radical Islamist groups, including Afghan jihadis fighting the Soviets in the 1980s and later with the Taliban, over a protracted period of time. "If anyone made payments to bin Laden and al-Qaida, it would be Turki, given his connections to them through the '80s," says Robert Baer, a former CIA case officer who did extensive tours in the Mideast and Central Asia during his 21-year career and is the author of "Sleeping With the Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude." "Turki arranged for things like sending cars to the Taliban, and free gas for Pakistan and Afghanistan, and he supported the Islamic movement in Sudan -- it was his job. But I've never seen any evidence that Turki himself was complicit in terrorism."

The most intriguing and controversial claim, however, involved none other than the alleged key Saudi conspirator, former intelligence chief Prince Turki. Turki claimed his intelligence service warned the CIA in late 1999 and early 2000 about two al-Qaida members, Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, who were later among the Sept. 11 hijackers. "What we told them was these people were on our watch list from previous activities of al-Qaida, in both the embassy bombings and attempts to smuggle arms into the kingdom in 1997," Turki told the Associated Press.

The CIA denied receiving any such information from Saudi Arabia until after 9/11, and Prince Bandar, Saudi Arabia's ambassador to the U.S., admitted that "no documents" were sent. But Turki insisted his agency communicated the warning to the CIA, at least by word of mouth.

The New Great Game

The second article I want to comment on was published today on The Guardian, written by Lutz Kleveman. Being from Britain, it seems to be more forthcoming in information from their American compatriots–seeming to shed more light on this Administrations mission in the Middle East and the Caspian Sea region.

Here are some quotes from this article:


As part of the Afghan campaign, the US air force set up a base near the Kyrgyz capital, Bishkek. Brawny pioneers in desert camouflages were erecting hundreds of tents for nearly 3,000 soldiers. I asked their commander, a wiry brigadier general, if and when the troops would leave Kyrgyzstan (and its neighbour Uzbekistan, where Washington set up a second airbase). "There is no time limit," he replied. "We will pull out only when all al-Qaeda cells have been eradicated."

Today, the Americans are still there and many of the tents have been replaced by concrete buildings. Bush has used his massive military build-up in Central Asia to seal the cold war victory against Russia, to contain Chinese influence and to tighten the noose around Iran. Most importantly, however, Washington - supported by the Blair government - is exploiting the "war on terror" to further American oil interests in the Caspian region. But this geopolitical gamble involving thuggish dictators and corrupt Saudi oil sheiks is only likely to produce more terrorists.

For much of the past two years, I have researched the links between conflict in Central Asia and US oil interests. I travelled thousands of kilometres, meeting with generals, oil bosses, warlords and diplomats. They are all players in a geostrategic struggle - the new Great Game.

***

The main spoils in today's Great Game are Caspian oil and gas. On its shores, and at the bottom of the Caspian Sea, lie the world's biggest untapped fossil fuel resources. Estimates range from 110 to 243bn barrels of crude, worth up to $4 trillion. According to the US department of energy, Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan alone could sit on more than 130bn barrels, more than three times the US's reserves. Oil giants such as ExxonMobil, ChevronTexaco and BP have already invested more than $30bn in new production facilities.

This interesting quote regarding Saudi Arabia–

Many people in Washington are particularly uncomfortable with the growing power of Saudi Arabia. There is a fear that radical Islamist groups could topple the corrupt Saud dynasty and stop the flow of oil to "infidels". To stave off political turmoil, the regime in Riyadh funds the radical Islamic Wahabbi sect that foments terror against Americans around the world. In a desperate effort to decrease its dependence on Saudi oil sheiks, the US seeks to control the Caspian oil resources. However, fierce conflicts have broken out over pipeline routes. Russia, still regarding itself as imperial overlord of its former colonies, promotes pipeline routes across its territory, including Chechnya, in the north Caucasus. China, the increasingly oil-dependent waking giant in the region, wants to build eastbound pipelines from Kazakhstan. Iran is offering its pipeline network via the Persian Gulf.

By contrast, Washington champions two pipelines that would circumvent both Russia and Iran. One would run from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to the Indian Ocean. Construction has already begun for a $3.8bn pipeline from Azerbaijan's capital, Baku, via neighbouring Georgia to Turkey's Mediterranean port of Ceyhan. BP, its main operator, has invested billions in oil-rich Azerbaijan, and can count on support from the Bush administration, which recently stationed about 500 elite troops in war-torn Georgia.

Kleveman’s assessment and possible effects of this new Great Game–

Besides raising the spectre of inter-state conflict, the Bush administration is wooing some of the region's most tyrannical dictators. One of them is Islam Karimov, the ex-communist ruler of Uzbekistan, whose regime brutally suppresses any opposition and Islamic groups. "Such people must be shot in the head. If necessary, I will shoot them myself," Karimov once told his rubber-stamp parliament.

Although the US state department acknowledges that Uzbek security forces use "torture as a routine investigation technique", Washington last year gave the Karimov regime $500m in aid and rent payments for the US air base in Chanabad. The state department also quietly removed Uzbekistan from its annual list of countries where freedom of religion is under threat. The British government seems to support Washington's policy, as Whitehall recently recalled its ambassador Craig Murray from Tashkent after he openly decried Uzbekistan's abysmal human rights record.

***

Worse is to come: disgusted with the US's cynical alliances with their corrupt and despotic rulers, the region's impoverished populaces increasingly embrace virulent anti-Americanism and militant Islam. As in Iraq, America's brazen energy imperialism in Central Asia jeopardises the few successes in the war on terror because the resentment it causes makes it ever easier for terrorist groups to recruit angry young men. It is all very well to pursue oil interests, but is it worth mortgaging our security to do so?

Nietzsche said that "It is our future that lays down the law of our today." In light of the information I read today, and in light of America’s aggressiveness world-wide, it’s clearly noticeable that this Administration has made a mockery of international law. The future they are laying for our children is bleak and possibly ravaged by terror. And just to think, it appears it’s because of oil after all.


P.S.- By the way, Metrosexual historian Posner is no conspiracy nut, he wrote the authoritative book on the Kennedy assissnation that debuncts much of the 'evidence' of a conspiracy and reaches the conclusion that Oswald did it.

[url]www.posner.com (http://blogs.salon.com/0002090/2003/10/20.html)

[Big Train]

So a "kinda true" documentary is the "Peoples choice"?? Unseemly, indeed...

[Warham]

Newsweek: Moore Distorted Bush Saudi Ties
NewsMax Wires
Thursday, July 01, 2004
A central theme of Michael Moore’s controversial documentary “Fahrenheit 9/11” is a bare allegation that Saudi Arabian interests provided $1.4 billion to firms connected to the family and friends of President George W. Bush.


However, as a special Newsweek investigative report notes, there is really less – not more – than meets the eye re the dramatic Moore claim:

Story Continues Below




Nearly 90 percent of that claimed amount, $1.18 billion, comes from contracts in the early to mid-1990’s that the Saudi Arabian government awarded to a U.S. defense contractor, BDM, for training the country’s military and National Guard. The “Bush” connection: The firm at the time was owned by the Carlyle Group, a private-equity firm whose Asian-affiliate advisory board once included the president’s father, George H.W. Bush.

But, points out Newsweek, former president Bush didn’t join the Carlyle advisory board until April, 1998 -- five months after Carlyle had already sold BDM to another defense firm.

As for the sitting president’s own Carlyle link, his service on the board ended when he quit to run for Texas governor -- a few months before the first of the Saudi contracts to the unrelated BDM firm was awarded.

The Carlyle Group is hardly a “Bush Inc,” noted Newsweek – but rather features a roster of bipartisan Washington power figures. “Its founding and still managing partner is Howard Rubenstein, a former top domestic policy advisor to Jimmy Carter. Among the firm’s senior advisors is Thomas “Mack” McLarty, Bill Clinton’s former White House chief of staff, and Arthur Levitt, Clinton’s former chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission. One of its other managing partners is William Cannard, Clinton’s chairman of the Federal Communications Commission.”


According to the report, the movie neglects to offer any evidence that Bush White House intervened in any way to bolster the interests of the Carlyle Group. In fact, the one major Bush administration decision that most directly affected the company’s interest was the cancellation of a $11 billion program for the Crusader rocket artillery system. The Crusader was manufactured by United Defense, which had been wholly owned by Carlyle until it spun the company off in a public offering in October, 2001. Carlyle still owned 47 percent of the shares in the defense company at the time that Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld canceled the Crusader program the following year.


As to Moore’s dealings with the matter of the departing Saudis flown out of the United States in the days after the September 11 terror attacks, the 9/11 commission found that the FBI screened the Saudi passengers, ran their names through federal databases, interviewed 30 of them and asked many of them "detailed questions." "Nobody of interest to the FBI with regard to the 9/11 investigation was allowed to leave the country," the commission stated.

The entity in the White House that approved the flights wasn’t the president, or the vice president -- it was Richard Clarke, the counter-terrorism czar who was a holdover from the Clinton administration. Clarke has testified that he gave the approval conditioned on FBI clearance.

[Warham]

What have we here?!! Lookie, lookie...It looks like Bush isn't the only president who's had his hand in the Saudi cookie jar...

"Arabs Funneled Millions to President Clinton's Library"

Note how media jumped all over George Bush for supposed Saudi ties. But look who the Saudis are giving money to-the Clintons. Some have speculated this is to curry favor with Hillary Clinton who may run for President in 2008.

Saudis, Arabs Funneled Millions to President Clinton's Library


LITTLE ROCK, ARK. - President Clinton's new $165 million library here was funded in part by gifts of $1 million or more each from the Saudi royal family and three Saudi businessmen.


The governments of Dubai, Kuwait, and Qatar and the deputy prime minister of Lebanon all also appear to have donated $1 million or more for the archive and museum that opened last week.


Democrats spent much of the presidential campaign this year accusing President Bush of improperly close ties to Saudi Arabia. The case was made in Michael Moore's film "Fahrenheit 9/11," in a bestselling book by Craig Unger titled "House of Bush, House of Saud," and by the Democratic presidential candidate, Senator Kerry."This administration delayed pressuring the Saudis," Mr. Kerry said on October 20. "I will insist that the Saudis crack down on charities that funnel funds to terrorists... and on anti-American and anti-Israel hate speech."The Media Fund, a Democratic group whose president is a former Clinton White House aide, Harold Ickes, spent millions airing television commercials in swing states with scripts such as, "The Saudi royal family...wealthy...powerful...corrupt. And close Bush family friends."


Perhaps as a result, the Saudi donations to the Clinton library are raising some eyebrows. Mr. Unger said he suspects that the Saudi support may have something to do with a possible presidential bid by Senator Clinton in 2008.


"They want to keep their options open no matter who's in power and whether that's four years from now or whatever," the author said. "Just a few million is nothing to them to keep their options open."


The chief financial officer for the William J. Clinton Presidential Foundation, Andrew Kessel, said that the vast majority of the roughly 113,000 donors to the foundation are ordinary Americans who made small gifts.


"We have 91,000 who gave $100 or less," he said in an interview Friday. "It's not all Saudi princes."


Information about the donors is available to the public on a single touch-screen computer mounted on a wall on the third floor of the recently opened library. Eventually, most who have contributed $100,000 or more will be listed on a wall in the museum's lobby, Mr. Kessel said.


However, some donors have asked that their names not be released. "We don't have many," Mr. Kessel said, adding, "It doesn't involve anyone controversial."


The computer lists donors by categories that correspond to the size of the gift. But there are no dollar figures provided for each of the funding levels.


Asked why the donor categories were not publicly defined, Mr. Kessel said,"It was a decision we made.We really don't need to at this point."


As a charitable organization, the Clinton Foundation is not required to make the names of its donors or the amounts of their gifts public. However, some of the other foundations that contributed to the library have disclosed their gifts on financial reports that are available from the Internal Revenue Service. By comparing those reports with the donor categories on the third-floor computer screen in the library, The New York Sun was able to match donor categories with approximate dollar amounts.


The highest tier,"Trustees," includes donations from 57 individuals, couples, or other entities. IRS reports reviewed by the Sun show that the foundations at this level have generally given or pledged $1 million or more. The Wasserman Foundation of Los Angeles, founded by movie mogul Lew Wasserman, gave the Clinton library $3 million. The Roy and Christine Sturgis Charitable Trust pledged $4 million. The Anheuser-Busch Foundation has given $200,000 annually for the last several years as part of what appears to be a $1 million pledge.The Annenberg Foundation also gave $1 million.


The Saudi royal family and the governments of Dubai, Kuwait, and Qatar donated at this "Trustee" level, as did the governments of Brunei and Taiwan. Also listed as trustees are three Saudi businessmen - Abdullah Al-Dabbagh, Nasser Al-Rashid, and Walid Juffali.


Other notables at the "Trustee" level include the deputy prime minister of Lebanon, Issam Fares; Hollywood director Steven Spielberg and his wife, actress Kate Capshaw, and an heir to the Wal-Mart fortune, Alice Walton.


The next tier down is labeled "Philanthropists." A major New York labor organization, Local 1199 of the Service Employees International Union, donated at this level, which appears to correspond to gifts of $500,000 to $1 million. Also donating in this range was the editor of the Las Vegas Sun, Brian Greenspun, who was one of Mr. Clinton's roommates at Yale.


On the level below that are the "Humanitarians." Based on benchmarks available from other sources, the "Humanitarians" seem to have given between $100,000 and $500,000. In their ranks are the King of Morocco, Mohammed VI, as well as a Pakistani-American businessman from California, Farooq Bajwa. Several perennial Clinton donors are on this list, such as the Big Apple Supermarkets chief, John Catsimatidis, and a San Diego class action lawyer, William Lerach. The U.S.-Islamic World Conference gave at the Humanitarian level, as did several Jewish groups, the Jewish Communal Fund, the Jewish Community Foundation, and the University of Judaism, according to the information available on the computer screen in the Clinton Library here.


The most controversial known donation to Mr. Clinton's library is also recorded at this level: a gift from a Manhattan socialite and singer, Denise Rich. Ms. Rich gave the foundation $450,000 while her fugitive ex-husband, Marc Rich, was seeking a pardon on tax-evasion and racketeering charges. Mr. Clinton granted the pardon hours before he left office, triggering a federal criminal investigation, as well as congressional inquiries.


As a result of that flap, a House committee voted in 2001 to require public disclosure of all large donations to presidential libraries. But the legislation stalled.


Another confounding aspect of the donor list available at the Clinton library is that, in nearly every case, it lacks any information beyond the name of the individual or company who gave. There are no hometowns or addresses for the donors and only in rare instances is there mention of an employer. Campaign finance records generally include this data.


Many of the numerous $100 gifts were for the inscribed bricks, or "pavers," that surround fountains just in front of the building.The same computer that lists the major donors also shows the minor ones where to find their paver. As a result, lines at the sole terminal are sometimes long.


President George H.W. Bush's library, which opened in 1997 in College Station,Texas, also received significant financial support from overseas. The governments of Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Japan each gave $1 million or more, while the People's Republic of China donated between $50,000 and $100,000.


The Chinese communist government may also have chipped in for Mr. Clinton's library. The Chinese Overseas Real Estate Development company gave at the $100,000 or higher level. So did the National Opera of Paris.


Fund-raising for the Clinton Library began in 1999, while Mr. Clinton was still in office. However, the fund-raising team reportedly refrained from soliciting gifts from foreigners or foreign governments until Mr. Clinton left the White House in January 2001. Aides to the former president said the donations support not only the library complex, but also the foundation's other work, such as distributing AIDS drugs abroad and shoring up small businesses in Harlem.


Mr. Unger, who wrote "House of Bush, House of Saud," said he thinks the gifts to Mr. Clinton's library pale in comparison to business deals that Mr. Bush's family has done with the Saudis. The author said the gifts to ex-presidents are designed to encourage a pro-Saudi attitude on the part of present or future occupants of the White House. "It would be surprising if they didn't give," Mr. Unger said."The Saudis have given to every presidential library for the last 30 years, Republican and Democrat."


A Washington Post editorial on Thursday decried the lack of disclosure of the Clinton Library's funders, calling it "outrageous." Said the editorial,"the presidential libraries, though built and endowed with private funds, are public property, run by the National Archives. The public has a right to know who's underwriting them."

[Warham]

I like how the communists helped out paying for the Clinton library. Money well spent for them, I'm sure.

http://www.rainmaker.net/rainmaker/clinton_library.jpg

Looks like a giant double-wide, eh?

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Warham
Sounds like Cunt.

BITCH PLEASE! I have kicked your ass all over this board and you know it.

For every article attacking Moore there's one supporting his position. You can copy paste all day and put little thought into it.

I can tell when you don't have an answer of your own. That's when you bring up Clinton (who, like Bush, I dislike) or abortion (which we agree on) or you steal an answer from another site.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
I like how the communists helped out paying for the Clinton library. Money well spent for them, I'm sure.

http://www.rainmaker.net/rainmaker/clinton_library.jpg

Looks like a giant double-wide, eh?

Oh, let's nit-pick now! One million pales in comparison to Bush's income from the Saudis.

Also, the Saudis gave him money AFTER he left office, not before.

And your little Clinton-bashing article shows it's colors by implying a tie between a Chinese real estate company and the 'Communist' government, which is now anything but communist.

Again. Let's have a Democratic equivalent of a Ken Starr-type Independent Counsel delve into Bush's personal, financial, and noted policy of using govenment power to retaliate against all percieved dissent. Then we'd see some charges.

[Angel]

Canada gets to vote this year, but I STILL think Moore stole a lot from here:
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspiracytheories/

[Big Train]

So we agree material was lifted and is only "kinda true"?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Big Train
So we agree material was lifted and is only "kinda true"?

Much like this guy. Funny how no one holds him accountable for his bullshit:

[DEMON CUNT]

Still they offer few thoughts of their own. More but Clinton....but Clinton... But nothing to indicate that there is any brain activity. Poor, poor braindead Christians.

[Big Train]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Much like this guy. Funny how no one holds him accountable for his bullshit:

So your not disagreeing, just merely trying to shift the focus of the conversation...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Big Train
So your not disagreeing, just merely trying to shift the focus of the conversation...
I learned that from you BT. No, never agreed, just pointed out your latent hypocrisy and double standard.

[Big Train]

MINE? How so?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Big Train
MINE? How so?

Limbaugh lover!

[Big Train]

Who said that? Who said I'm a Christian....where do you guys get your information and determine it to be fact. You know very little about me and keep demonstrating what you do know to be incorrect...

[LoungeMachine]

I know it's hard for us left wing liberal commie pinko traitors NOT to paint all of you NEOCON dittoheads with the same brush, but all in all I do think BT has more of an open mind than the rest of the jackbooted Busheep [Elvis, Warham, et al] that haunt this place.

At times I think he may even be a closet Libertarian.

There's still hope for the putz yet.

[Big Train]

I'm an independently thinking putz....there I said it.

[Nickdfresh]

Maybe one day he'll join us here on the pink...er...dark side of the force?

http://theorderofthesith.tripod.com/photos/sith-poster.jpg

[LoungeMachine]

One can hope

BT = Bush Traitor

[Big Train]

Highly unlikely...but keep hoping.

[ODShowtime]

If we can prove to BT the truth he'll switch over. But he wants hardcore facts. He'd probably accept nothing less than me interrogating gw with a hot poker and bamboo shoots while he watched. He'll be cool after that though.

[Big Train]

Is it so much to ask? Like Ford wouldn't be warming the pokers right now if we could..

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
If we can prove to BT the truth he'll switch over.

Not unless he hears it from Fox News first! "We report, you recite."

[Big Train]

Yes Cunt, people like you are leading the way on "changing people's minds". Your radical approach is building bridges towards liberal thought and enlightenment.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Big Train
Yes Cunt, people like you are leading the way on "changing people's minds". Your radical approach is building bridges towards liberal thought and enlightenment.

Nice one!