The NHL Lockout...does anyone REALLY CARE?

[POJO_Risin]

Look...I'm an NHL fan...and I do miss it...but can there be any argument that the vast majority of sports fan don't really care about this? Should Bettman open up his eyes and realize that he's going to lose several teams in this? He keeps saying no...but I'm telling you...whenever the NHL comes back...if there aren't teams missing initially...it won't take long for them to start disappearing...

This is about as idiotic as it gets...players don't want a cap...and have offered to take a what...24% reduction in pay? Now, I'm a bit educated...and a 24% reduction would nullify the need for a cap...

and assuming the owners would then control their spending (I know that WON'T be happeneing any time soon)...

The problem is the owners...period...they need a solid fucking cap...to keep them honest? Christ...what a joke...

see you NHL...long live the minors...

[Bob_R]

Jesus Christ Pojo don't get fuckin' Lou started!

To answer your question: I missed it alot more in 1994-1995. And, that has to do more with more personal life than a gripe versus the game itself.

[POJO_Risin]

Oh...Fuck anyone's opinion who has to put down something to bring something else up...

I like Hockey...but I'm not getting the sense that many people are.

I live in an NHL town...granted it's not NHL crazy...but the paper give's it 1 square inch a day...not to promising...

[Nickdfresh]

Re: The NHL Lockout...does anyone REALLY CARE?

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
Look...I'm an NHL fan...and I do miss it...but can there be any argument that the vast majority of sports fan don't really care about this? Should Bettman open up his eyes and realize that he's going to lose several teams in this? He keeps saying no...but I'm telling you...whenever the NHL comes back...if there aren't teams missing initially...it won't take long for them to start disappearing...

This is about as idiotic as it gets...players don't want a cap...and have offered to take a what...24% reduction in pay? Now, I'm a bit educated...and a 24% reduction would nullify the need for a cap...

and assuming the owners would then control their spending (I know that WON'T be happeneing any time soon)...

The problem is the owners...period...they need a solid fucking cap...to keep them honest? Christ...what a joke...

see you NHL...long live the minors...

The Buffalo Snooze...er...News posted a series of good articles on this very subject. The overall gist is that the 24% reduction would be temporary and the player salaries would surpass present levels in only a couple of years. The players know they'll get it back.

Even a lot of ex-players are beginning to bitch about the NHLPA. Adam Oates was in the Boston Globe over the weekend slamming the Union for sticking up for the big money players while fucking over the little guys in the league.

[POJO_Risin]

How would the 24% only be temporary?

unless the owners would overpay in the future...

it's all about spending money...and if the owners didn't...this problem wouldn't be there to begin with.

Player's Unions are supposed to keep the money in the players hands...

Player's are supposed to get as much as they can...

it's the owners that have to offer it...

[POJO_Risin]

It's teams like the the Red Wings...and to some extent...the douchebag here in Raleigh who offered up Federov that huge deal a few years ago that ran up the prices a bit...that you can't count on...because they'll always up the ante...

blame the owners...

[Dave's PA Rental]

Nobody was a bigger fan of the NHL than I was from 1987-1992. Unfortunately, I got spoiled on what the game should be...as a result, I cant even WATCH the present game. Betteman wanted to turn it into the NBA on skates, and thats exactly what he did. I dont miss it at all. (and aparently, not alot of others do either.)

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
It's teams like the the Red Wings...and to some extent...the douchebag here in Raleigh who offered up Federov that huge deal a few years ago that ran up the prices a bit...that you can't count on...because they'll always up the ante...

blame the owners...

True, but the NFL is universally acknowledged as the best run sports league. And they have a cap. Because they know that owners need to sell tickets and must sign talent to do so, yet the salaries eat a bigger share of the profit for teams like Calgary and Tampa Bay, not that they turn a profit anymore. The owners are fucked either way in a viscious Catch-22...Either they are overpaying for talent and driving up salaries or they are a bunch of stingy, cheap bastards willing to settle mediocrity or worse.

And things really started with Mario Lemeux getting (I think) $42 million over seven years in 92' or something. Then everyone wanted baseball salaries in an "Arena Football" level sport.

[Chris]

What's the big deal about a cap?

The most successful league in North America (NFL) has it. The NBA has it. So what's the problem?

The reality is that if they come back and play under the current system the salaries will escalate back to where they were and then they will lose a couple of teams. The player's association loves to say the owners should restrain themselves. Well fine. Except, all NHL contracts are guaranteed, many other leagues do not have guaranteed contracts. So if you get stuck with some superstar stiff, you can often arrange a reasonable buyout and dump the player. In the NHL, you have to essentially pay the full contract of the player.

The bottom line is this. All the owners need to do is wait until September and declare an impasse. At that point they can more or less dictate whatever system they want and can implement it without any input from the union. Then they can open the door to replacement players and it's over for the players and their association. We all know they'll all slowly start coming back. It happened in the NFL it will happen in the NHL. So the players might as well make the best deal they can right now. They have NOTHING to gain by losing the season. They should agree to a cap and dangle the salvaging of the season as a carrot to get the owners to agree to a higher level cap.

[POJO_Risin]

The reason why the NFL works...is that it's contracts aren't guaranteed (just bonus money)...and they have a hard cap...you CAN'T go over it...or you get fined...lose players...all that fun stuff...

they are the ONLY league with universal non-guaranteed contracts...

and a hard cap...

which is why it works...

I do blame the Player's Union for not realizing that ultimately they are going to cost a large chunk of their Union...They are hardlining like some of the other major Union's of the past, but don't have the clout, or the league to withstand a year off...

Unfortunately...if they don't solve this in two weeks...they'll find out the hard way...

Trust me here...no season this year...and the NHL will NEVER recover...

[Chris]

I think hockey will recover in Canada. And it will probably recover in the traditional US areas where it's always been successful. It might take ten years like it has in baseball, but I think it will recover. All the polls I've seen up here, say that the public supports the owners. And most fans in smaller markets, understand that for their team to have a chance each year, they need to have a level playing field. And without some type of change to the current system, not only will their team struggle to be competitive, but chances are that it might not even be around at all.

The majority of fans in smaller markets understand that if the owners get a hard cap, that should give all the teams a chance to be competitive and hopefully a shot at being a contender.

Assuming the owners are really willing to lose the season to get a cap, (which seems to be the case), I say the players might as well make their best deal now. I cannot see where they have anything to gain by writing off the season. The way I see it, if the season is lost, the NHLPA is finished. Come October of next year, hockey will be back and the rules totally dictated by the owners.

So the net result of losing the season will gain what for the players?

The owners still get what they want, a hard cap. They will also get all the other things they want too, like the elimination of salary arbitration etc. and they'll break the back of the players and the NHLPA. The value of their franchises will probably skyrocket, because they suddenly now have a franchise that is much more likely to be profitable, even if revenues plumett as a result of the lockout.

So the main downside to the loss of the season for the owners, is that it might take them ten years to rebuild the attendance and revenues back to where it is today.

But for the players, they lose an entire seasons pay. They still end up with a salary cap, and probably lose a bunch of other rights. So if I'm a player, I'd be looking to make my best deal right now even if that means I have to accept a salary cap as part of that deal. It's better to have 50% of a 2 billion dollar pie now versus what might be 50% a 1 billion dollar pie or even less come October of next year.

[POJO_Risin]

We'll see...we'll see...

I don't have faith in any of the sides...

if it becomes a bigger pissing match than it already is...and lines are drawn in cement...we may not be talking about 1 season...

[POJO_Risin]

Plus, you think about all the players that we'll never get to see again...how many players will retire now because of the strike?

Will guys like Lemieux be back...etc.?

Who knows how this game will change...

[ALinChainz]

One team in the NFL lost money last season, not this past one, but the season prior, Arizona. And it wasn't much by the standards set by sports numbers. Hockey being a completely different animal than the other TV sports, they don't get that fat TV cash.

I for one, like the idea of the salary cap. The one the NBA has is a soft cap, with the Larry Bird rule being a major difference. I don't like it, but at least it's something. Baseball now has the luxary tax.

The NHL owners won't accept any deal without one and the players won't with one. When good teams have to go bankrupt, and teams are losing less money by NOT playing, something has to be done.

Let's hope they can.

[Chris]

Originally posted by POJO_Risin
We'll see...we'll see...

I don't have faith in any of the sides...

if it becomes a bigger pissing match than it already is...and lines are drawn in cement...we may not be talking about 1 season...

POJO, from what I'm hearing up here, the owners feel they can declare an impasse next fall. Even the worst pessimist is saying the longest it can go is to some kind of shortened season next year, so that would be January or so.

I honestly think the players are likely to make a deal in January and accept a cap. Maybe to save face everyone will try to come up with a different term other than cap......but it will be like a cap. And if the players refuse to accept something like that, I think most of the owners are prepared to happily discard the season.. They just have way too much to gain by waiting.