Selective separation

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  • BigBadBrian
    TOASTMASTER GENERAL
    • Jan 2004
    • 10620

    Selective separation

    Selective separation
    David Limbaugh

    December 31, 2004


    It would be shocking if those who worship at the altar of church/state separation, while denying this nation's Christian heritage, would at least acknowledge that they are selective as to which values they object to the state promoting.

    Until these avowed secularists start complaining about non-Christian, values-laden instruction in public schools, they'll come up short in the credibility department. When public schools endorse New Age ideas or the radical homosexual agenda, for example, the separationists are nowhere to be found.

    Where were they, for instance, when Newton North High School in Newtonville, Mass., held a "Transgender, Bisexual, Gay and Lesbian Awareness Day," ("To BGLAD Day") in mid-December? On that day, students were allowed -- some would say "encouraged" -- to attend workshops and assemblies in lieu of their regular classes, in which speakers would "make students feel good about homosexuality, bisexuality and transgenderism."

    Why weren't separationists upset that parents weren't forewarned about this glorious event? A school spokesman admitted that parents weren't notified, but said the event had been mentioned on the school's Web site and listed in event calendars.

    Why didn't separationists complain that the school is trying to indoctrinate students on issues many consider to have spiritual and ethical implications? The online school calendar has a link containing information about BGLAD Day, including this statement: "Statistically, one in 10 students at this school are not straight. Teenage life is complicated enough, but how does it differ for GLBT teens? Come to this panel and find out."

    Surely the school's administrators are aware that this widely disseminated assertion that 10 percent of the population is homosexual has been thoroughly discredited at best, and vigorously disputed at worst. Nevertheless, there is not so much as a qualifier, much less a disclaimer, accompanying the statement.

    Other activities listed for the day included: "Little Theatre: Life Outside the Gender Norm: What happens when one's gender identity does not match their sex? In this session, speakers will talk about their experiences with gender identity and expression;" "Out at the Old Ballgame: Athletes and coaches discuss what it's like to be GLBT in the gym, on the field, and on the road;" "Color Me Queer," and others.

    During one session, a speaker reportedly said he decided to "come out" as a "gay boy" based on the example of his "role model" brother. He also described how he fell in love with his sister's husband. This is not just a presentation of the homosexual lifestyle in a favorable light, but active recruitment -- proselytizing.

    Two parents who objected to the event were ejected from campus after one -- Kim Cariani -- tried to videotape a session. According to Cariani, "They took the two of us and pulled us out and gave us one minute to leave, and if we came back on the property, we would be arrested for trespassing."

    What are the activists trying to hide? Are they afraid their indoctrination techniques will be exposed? If they believe in the righteousness of their cause, shouldn't they invite the public's scrutiny?

    The school spokesman protested that the event was not mandatory, and that while "classes were scheduled to attend … if students are uncomfortable or their parents are uncomfortable, the students can instead go to the library."

    Again, where are the zealous advocates for church/state separation? Aren't they always the first to say that certain voluntary Christian-based activities -- prayer, recital of the Pledge, invocation of Christ in a valedictory address -- are objectionable because those choosing not to participate will be stigmatized or made to feel uncomfortable? Then what about those who choose to go to the library? What about their discomfort? What about their stigmatization as "homophobes"?

    Can you imagine what would happen if a public school affirmatively endorsed a workshop in which homosexuality were described as sinful? At a similar event in a high school in Ann Arbor, Mich., in 2002, officials wouldn't even allow a Roman Catholic student to participate in a discussion because she said she was going to voice her disapproval of homosexuality. We're not talking about the school endorsing her opinion, mind you, but just allowing her to speak her mind. It wouldn't, but chose instead to suppress her speech and religious freedom.

    These examples are just a few of the many proving that many separationists are not about vindicating constitutional rights, but indoctrination, mind control and suppression of opposing values.

    If we're going to accede to the removal of Christ from public schools, can't we at least demand that the state not endorse contrary values?
    “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush
  • Big Train
    Full Member Status

    • Apr 2004
    • 4011

    #2
    well thought out article and I agree.

    Comment

    • FORD
      ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

      • Jan 2004
      • 58754

      #3
      Originally posted by Big Train
      well thought out article and I agree.

      The words "well thought out" and "Limbaugh" are mutually exclusive.

      Eat Us And Smile

      Cenk For America 2024!!

      Justice Democrats


      "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

      Comment

      • Big Train
        Full Member Status

        • Apr 2004
        • 4011

        #4
        Uhuh......good to know your read the article and had an actual thought worth posting..

        Comment

        • BigBadBrian
          TOASTMASTER GENERAL
          • Jan 2004
          • 10620

          #5
          Originally posted by Big Train
          Uhuh......good to know your read the article and had an actual thought worth posting..
          Exactly.
          “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

          Comment

          • FORD
            ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

            • Jan 2004
            • 58754

            #6
            David Limbaugh is a hack riding on his windbag brother's large and oxycontin addicted coat tails.
            Eat Us And Smile

            Cenk For America 2024!!

            Justice Democrats


            "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

            Comment

            • Nickdfresh
              SUPER MODERATOR

              • Oct 2004
              • 49125

              #7
              Re: Selective separation

              Originally posted by BigBadBrian
              Selective separation
              David Limbaugh

              Why didn't separationists complain that the school is trying to indoctrinate students on issues many consider to have spiritual and ethical implications? The online school calendar has a link containing information about BGLAD Day, including this statement: "Statistically, one in 10 students at this school are not straight. Teenage life is complicated enough, but how does it differ for GLBT teens? Come to this panel and find out."

              I don't totally disagree with some of the articles themes, but Gay youths are far more likely to commit suicide than their heterosexual counterparts:

              Link

              The Suicide Attempt Problem for Lesbian and Bisexual Females, and for Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Youth of Colour1
              The Bagley (1994) random sample data confirmed the hypothesis made from the information and research data available on gay and bisexual males, and similar data has also been available for lesbians and bisexual females, and for GLB people of colour. The Bell & Weinberg (1978) data (figure 1, figure 2, and figure 3) reveals that lesbian and bisexual female youth have had attempted suicide rates comparable to, and even higher than, gay and bisexual male youth. A major 1988 study of 1,925 17- to 55-year-old lesbians (sample taken in 1984) suggests that lesbians have been at high risk for suicide attempts (47). The related data given in Figures 4 and 5 also suggests that the attempted suicide rate for lesbians has almost doubled from about 1950 to 1980, given the difference in rates between the 45- to 55-year-old (13%) and 17- to 24-year-old (24%) lesbians (Figure 4). Furthermore, the attempted suicide rate for lesbians of colour, 27% and 28%, is almost double the white lesbian rate of 16% (Figure 5)....Similar differences (Table 2) were also reported by Schneider at al. (1989) who spoke to this. "In general, however, being a stigmatized 'minority within a minority' may contribute to suicidality. Gay members of ethnic minorities are often disenfranchised from both mainstream social institutions that normally provide support and psychological protection from distress symptomatology" (36:391). This factor, responsible for the higher rates of distress for GLB people of colour and also articulated by other professionals (24, 48, 49), is essentially the same one given to explain why GLB people in general are at higher risk for having suicide problems than heterosexual people.

              Saunders & Valente (1987) emphasized that "empirical evidence, risk factor and Durkheim's theory of anomic suicide... supports the proposition that gay men and lesbians are at higher risk for suicide (34:01)" The concept of "anomie" refers to people who don't feel they belong to society, have been marginalized, and are stigmatized. GLB youth, however, would have fewer problems if it was only a matter of not belonging to society, but the situation is severe for them. Often enough, they feel hated and rejected by almost everyone, including peers, teachers, parents, religious leaders, and even their god. Martin (1988) described the situation. "The truth is that gay and lesbian youth are not like other adolescents. Their difference stems from their status as members of one of the most hated and despised minority groups in the country" (50:59).

              In addition, most GLB youth have been socially set up to hate themselves (Note 13). thus producing what could be called internal anomie. When combined with Durkheim's "anomie," high levels of distress, attempted suicides, and even suicide can be expected.

              So what's wrong with letting them know that they are not the only one's who are Gay? Who cares?!

              Surely the school's administrators are aware that this widely disseminated assertion that 10 percent of the population is homosexual has been thoroughly discredited at best, and vigorously disputed at worst.... Are they afraid their indoctrination techniques will be exposed? If they believe in the righteousness of their cause, shouldn't they invite the public's scrutiny?
              So he attacks the "discredited" notion that 10% of the population is gay, yet then propagates the even more widely discredited notion that people can be converted or choose to be gay. What a half-wit!

              The school spokesman protested that the event was not mandatory, and that while "classes were scheduled to attend … if students are uncomfortable or their parents are uncomfortable, the students can instead go to the library."
              So go to the goddamn library and read a book! I suggest "Night."
              Last edited by Nickdfresh; 12-31-2004, 04:40 PM.

              Comment

              • BigBadBrian
                TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                • Jan 2004
                • 10620

                #8
                Re: Re: Selective separation

                Originally posted by Nickdfresh
                I don't totally disagree with some of the articles themes, but Gay youths are far more likely to commit suicide than their heterosexual counterparts:


                Gee, that's too bad. Really. Bad that doesn't mean we don't have to have a fucking AWARENESS DAY about it in fucking MIDDLE and HIGH SCHOOL now do we?

                FUCK NO!!!

                Let their parents get the "aware."
                “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

                Comment

                • Big Train
                  Full Member Status

                  • Apr 2004
                  • 4011

                  #9
                  Re: Selective separation

                  Originally posted by BigBadBrian
                  Selective separation

                  Why didn't separationists complain that the school is trying to indoctrinate students on issues many consider to have spiritual and ethical implications?

                  That line says it all. Until the ground rules change (i.e. Seperation of church and state, it is hypocritical what they are doing.

                  Comment

                  • Nickdfresh
                    SUPER MODERATOR

                    • Oct 2004
                    • 49125

                    #10
                    Re: Re: Re: Selective separation

                    Originally posted by BigBadBrian
                    Gee, that's too bad. Really. Bad that doesn't mean we don't have to have a fucking AWARENESS DAY about it in fucking MIDDLE and HIGH SCHOOL now do we?

                    FUCK NO!!!

                    Let their parents get the "aware."
                    Nobody HAD to do anything! Go to the fucking library then! Did the article mention anything else like why they did it? Did a gay kid commit suicide in that district recently? Were gay bashing incidents on the rise? I sure Rush Blimpos brother would never, ever omit certain facts a quote things out of context! OH NOOOO!! Why did I waste my time reading RUSH LIMBAUGHS loser brother?! He probably changes and omits more facts than his "entertainer" brother.

                    Comment

                    • Nickdfresh
                      SUPER MODERATOR

                      • Oct 2004
                      • 49125

                      #11
                      Re: Re: Selective separation

                      Originally posted by Big Train
                      That line says it all. Until the ground rules change (i.e. Seperation of church and state, it is hypocritical what they are doing.
                      Since when?! Were the kids being "turned gay?" Is there a provision in the Constitution against GAYNESS and State? Are there different denominations of GAY? Is the school advocating one form of GAY over the other forms of GAY? Again, somebody is leaving out something!

                      My partisan BULLSHIT detector just went off again goddamnit!

                      Last edited by Nickdfresh; 12-31-2004, 05:34 PM.

                      Comment

                      • Big Train
                        Full Member Status

                        • Apr 2004
                        • 4011

                        #12
                        Bullshit detector must be pointing at you Nick..

                        The point is spiritual and moral implications. Seperation of church and state (especially as the ACLU have traditionally argued it) is to keep seperate anything that might have a moral or spiritual implication to it. Every year I hear the old chestnut of keeping out nativity scenes as it may construe a promotion of christianity. Isn't "awareness day", promotion? It isn't about any particular issue I rant, either for or against, just the basic ground rules. If we are going to play by these rules of keeping it all seperate, then let's actually do it.

                        Comment

                        • Nickdfresh
                          SUPER MODERATOR

                          • Oct 2004
                          • 49125

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Big Train
                          Bullshit detector must be pointing at you Nick..

                          The point is spiritual and moral implications. Seperation of church and state (especially as the ACLU have traditionally argued it) is to keep seperate anything that might have a moral or spiritual implication to it. Every year I hear the old chestnut of keeping out nativity scenes as it may construe a promotion of christianity. Isn't "awareness day", promotion? It isn't about any particular issue I rant, either for or against, just the basic ground rules. If we are going to play by these rules of keeping it all seperate, then let's actually do it.
                          What "Spiritual" implications? Do you worship gays or something? WTF does that mean?:confused: Did you get specifically targeted in your school because you carried around a nativity Scene? Did you get beaten up for a Nativity scene? Again, I seriously challenge the facts of the author with his omission of basic facts and lack of context.

                          This is like that thread I posted by that asshole Oklahoma Senator that said, "there is an epidemic of lesbianism going on in (OK) schools." Did that make it true? NO! They actually checked his "facts" and proved he was talking out of his ass and had so distorted things, he ended up looking like a delusional asshole.

                          By the way, this is ONE district. Is this supposed to represent a national epidemic of GAYNESS in schools?



                          Wait, let me get an article as to how Christian groups are forcing schools to alter their sex education programs to omit any actual reference to sex or birth control, and basically stating that condoms and other forms of birth control don't work very well (a lie) and abstinence is the only way (try selling THAT ONE to teenagers). Misinforming kids to advance THEIR agenda. Yeah, let me take every word as gospel!

                          Comment

                          • Big Train
                            Full Member Status

                            • Apr 2004
                            • 4011

                            #14
                            Your so dramatic Nick.....

                            AGAIN, LISTEN to what I am saying. Implications. Meaning discussing things that could call into question one's religious or moral feelings on a subject. The ACLU has traditionally argued this be out of schools. I agree (and YES, that goes for fundamentalists as well).

                            BTW, I don't care if it is one school or all of them, it doesn't belong there.

                            Comment

                            • Nickdfresh
                              SUPER MODERATOR

                              • Oct 2004
                              • 49125

                              #15
                              I guess I am on a rampage today. To many newby cunts wander into here and stir shit up for no reason!

                              Comment

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