Iraqi resistance shoots down US helicopter!

[kentuckyklira]

Looks like everything´s going well there a few days before the "elections"!

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
Looks like everything´s going well there a few days before the "elections"!

Eat shit, terrorist scrotum-licker. The helicopter crashed due to mechanical failure.

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Eat shit, terrorist scrotum-licker. The helicopter crashed due to mechanical failure.
I´d say the same if I was a spokesperson for the US forces.

BTW, what took you so long??:confused:

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
I´d say the same if I was a spokesperson for the US forces.

BTW, what took you so long??:confused:

I thought it was a pretty quick response....

So, are you saying that U.S. helicopters don't crash in accidents, especially in bad weather - or that there are not accidents that cause deaths in war? OR could it be you just have it in for the U.S. ?

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
I thought it was a pretty quick response....

So, are you saying that U.S. helicopters don't crash in accidents, especially in bad weather - or that there are not accidents that cause deaths in war? OR could it be you just have it in for the U.S. ? The US forces say accident, Iraqi sources say shot down.

You´re free to believe the version you want to, just as I am!

Plus, yes there are accidents that cause deaths in war, just that this war is a criminal act by a bunch of madmen!

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
The US forces say accident, Iraqi sources say shot down.

You´re free to believe the version you want to, just as I am!

Plus, yes there are accidents that cause deaths in war, just that this war is a criminal act by a bunch of madmen!

While it is possible the helicopter could have been shot down, it is more likely it went down due to mechanical failure. That is just the odds of the situation.

Regardless of the situation, I imaginine you are celebrating the event, huh?

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
The US forces say accident, Iraqi sources say shot down.

You´re free to believe the version you want to, just as I am!

Plus, yes there are accidents that cause deaths in war, just that this war is a criminal act by a bunch of madmen!

Which Iraqi sources? We've had discussions here in the past about how the fledgling Iraqi media has reported things like "Nuclear Wepons Found!" - so you are automatically believing whatever sounds the "worst" for the U.S. becasue that's what you want, even though all reputable news sources say otherwise. So why do you hate the U.S. so much?

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Which Iraqi sources? We've had discussions here in the past about how the fledgling Iraqi media has reported things like "Nuclear Wepons Found!" - so you are automatically believing whatever sounds the "worst" for the U.S. becasue that's what you want, even though all reputable news sources say otherwise. So why do you hate the U.S. so much? When will American neocons ever understand that hating your current administration and what it stands for doesn´t equal hating the US as a whole??

:monkey:

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
When will American neocons ever understand that hating your current administration and what it stands for doesn´t equal hating the US as a whole??

:monkey:

Don't be so daft.

So hating the current administration means hating U.S. troops in combat and celebrating them being killed is ok - as long as you hate the administration?

[Nickdfresh]

Deadliest day for U.S. in Iraq war
Weather suspected in chopper crash that killed 31 Marines

Wednesday, January 26, 2005 Posted: 12:32 PM EST (1732 GMT)

Super Stallion CH-53E
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/WORLD/meast/01/26/iraq.main/story.copter.53e.jpg

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Thirty-one Marines were killed in a helicopter crash near Iraq's border with Jordan, bringing the number of U.S. troops killed Wednesday to 36 -- the deadliest day for U.S. forces since the start of the war in Iraq.

Four U.S. Marines were killed during combat in Iraq's Al-Anbar province, and a U.S. soldier died when insurgents attacked a combat patrol north of Baghdad, according to the U.S. military.

The cause of the chopper crash is still under investigation, although it appears to be weather-related, according to Gen. John Abizaid, chief of U.S. Central Command.

"The weather was bad, we don't know of any enemy action, the investigation continues," he said.

There is no evidence of any survivors, according to Abizaid, who said the helicopter was on "a routine mission in support of the elections."

"It's a dangerous environment that we operate in Iraq, we all understand that, and again our condolences to the families," he said.

Wednesday's death toll surpassed the 31 U.S. forces killed on March 23, 2003 -- four days after the start of the war in Iraq. Twenty-nine of them died in combat that day.

Wednesday's incidents brought the U.S. death toll in the war to 1,417.

The CH 53E Super Stallion crashed near Ar Rutba in western Iraq about 1:20 a.m. local time (5:20 p.m. Tuesday ET). (Map)

It was carrying personnel from the 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing and the 1st Marine Division.

The four Marines who died Wednesday were killed during combat operations in Iraq's Al-Anbar province, according to a military news release. The Marines were assigned to the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force. Ar Rutba is also in Al-Anbar province.

Elsewhere, a U.S. soldier was killed Wednesday when insurgents attacked a combat patrol with grenades near Ad Duluiyah, military officials said.

The soldier, from the 1st Infantry Division, died and two others were wounded in the attack about 11:20 a.m. (3:20 a.m. ET). The injured were taken to a military hospital for treatment; one was in serious condition.

President Bush said, "Any time we lose life it is a sad moment," at a press conference Wednesday, referring to the deaths in Iraq. (Full story)

In addition to the U.S. military deaths, four multinational soldiers were wounded Wednesday morning when a car bomb exploded near a convoy in southwestern Baghdad, along the road to the city's airport, a source with the U.S. Army's 1st Cavalry Division said.
Seven Iraqis killed

In Tamin province, also on Wednesday, three car bombs within an hour killed five Iraqis and injured six other people, according to the police chief in Kirkuk.

The bombs exploded between 11 a.m. and noon (3 and 4 a.m. ET), said Maj. Gen. Torhan Abdul Rahman. The first was in the town of Riyadh, about 30 kilometers (19 miles) west of Kirkuk, and targeted a police station, he said. Three Iraqi police officers were killed and three civilians injured.

The second detonated outside the Riyadh mayor's office, killing two Iraqi soldiers. The third bomb exploded outside Riyadh and targeted a U.S. military convoy. Three other Iraqi civilians were wounded.

Insurgents attacked the offices of two political parties in Baquba on Wednesday, triggering clashes that left an Iraqi police officer dead and four others wounded -- three of them working as guards for the parties, Baquba police said.

The insurgents used grenades and small arms fire to attack the Kurdish Democratic Party office and the office of the Iraqi Patriotic Gathering Alliance about 6:30 a.m. (10:30 p.m. Tuesday ET), police said, and the resulting battles lasted two hours.

In al-Nahrawan, a southeastern suburb of Baghdad, city council leader Karim Sarhan was gunned down Wednesday morning in a drive-by shooting on his way to work, Iraqi police said.
Pre-election violence Tuesday

Three government employees were shot and killed in attacks Tuesday, according to police.

Three Baghdad schools to be used as polling centers in Sunday's election were attacked Tuesday night, an Iraqi police officer said. A bomb planted at a fourth school was defused.

About 8 p.m. (noon ET), Salah al-Deen school in northern Baghdad was damaged when insurgents threw a grenade at it, authorities said. Thirty minutes later, a bomb exploded near the main gate of Al-Fursan school in southeast Baghdad, causing damage, police said.

About 10:30 p.m. (2:30 p.m. ET), Al-Balquees school in northern Baghdad was damaged when it was hit by a rocket, police said.

About 90 minutes later, experts defused a bomb planted near al-Yemen school in al-Gazaliyah neighborhood in western Baghdad.

Iraqis go to the polls Sunday, and U.S. and Iraqi officials have been warning that insurgents would ramp up their attacks in a bid to derail the vote.
Other developments

# A videotape was released on Tuesday showing American hostage Roy Hallums pleading for his life while an off-camera captor holds a gun to his head. Hallums was kidnapped November 1, and the video gives no clues about when it was made or whether he is still alive. (Full story)

# A high-ranking official in Iraq's Justice Ministry was gunned down in a drive-by shooting Tuesday as he was leaving his home southeast of Baghdad, police said. A group calling itself the Army of Ansar al-Sunnah claimed responsibility for the attack on Judge Qais Hashim al-Shonmari, and warned of more attacks to come. Shonmari's son was also killed in the shooting.

# The concept of democracy appears to have taken root in the dusty town of Karma, a predominantly Sunni community of 75,000 people about nine miles (15 kilometers) northeast of Falluja. Although most residents say they don't know who the candidates are or where to go to vote, they say they will vote come Sunday. (Full story)

# As the Iraqi elections near, women are changing the face of politics. On TV women are encouraged to not only vote, but participate. Election organizers have mandated that 30 percent of the candidates in next week's elections be women. (Full story)

CNN's Tomas Etzler, David Ensor, Octavia Nasr, Cal Perry, Auday Sadik and Mohammad Tawfeeq contributed to this report.

CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/26/iraq.main/index.html)

[Nickdfresh]

We broke 1,400 dead (1,417) today. I wonder if any of those Marines were sons or daughters of Congressmen? No...I doubt it.
http://www.corpsstories.com/Torres-1.jpg

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
We broke 1,400 dead (1,417) today. I wonder if any of those Marines were sons or daughters of Congressmen? No...I doubt it.

Don't think so. There are at least 7 members of Congress who have family members in the military which means Michael Moore was wrong about that too.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Don't think so. There are at least 7 members of Congress who have family members in the military which means Michael Moore was wrong about that too.

Define members. Sons and daughters? Only one Congressman has a son in harms way, and he's a Democrat. And even counting the 'seven,' that is still a ridiculously small number, especially since they are counting those in the Naval intelligence reserves and ROTC that have not been activated.

How many of those seven are enlistees or officers in the combat arms?

I didn't get my info from Moore. I remember it from a news repost around the time of the bullshit Republican grandstanding of Hagels bill!

[whodat]

kentucky jackass, even if it was shot down is it necessary for you to ridicule the death of 36 people..dumbass

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by whodat
kentucky jackass, even if it was shot down is it necessary for you to ridicule the death of 36 people..dumbass

Maybe you can quote his post in which he 'ridicules' their deaths. I don't think he did.

[Sgt Schultz]

Conflict with Iraq: Some members of Congress have great personal interest in the war

Thursday, April 10, 2003

By TOM FORD, Minneapolis-St. Paul Star Tribune



WASHINGTON — Sen. Tim Johnson, D-S.D., keeps a map of Iraq in his kitchen and tries to follow events on television, knowing that any moment could bring catastrophic news.

His son Brooks, 31, is in Iraq, a staff sergeant with the Army's 101st Airborne Division.

"The families recognize, more so than anyone, the very real nature of what is happening," Johnson said. "These are not video games."

Of the 535 members of Congress, at least seven have a great personal interest: They have children in the military who already are participating in the war or could be called to do so.

They include Rep. John Kline, R-Minn., whose 32-year-old son, Dan, is training reserve units in Georgia that are about to be sent to Iraq.

"If he could go, I would say good for you ... and we'll be proud of you," said Kline, a retired Marine colonel. "But there's a percentage of me that says he's my son and I'm glad he's here."

The number of federal lawmakers with children in the military has steadily declined since the Vietnam era.

Donald Zillman, a University of Maine law professor who has tracked the number of congressional members who've served in the military, said about 30 percent of the current lawmakers have military backgrounds.

That number has consistently dropped since 1969, when more than two-thirds of members had spent time in the military, Zillman said. He expects percentages to fall further, he said, as younger candidates win seats in Congress.

Charles Moskos, a sociology professor at Northwestern University who specializes in the military, said that a decline in military service for lawmakers' kids has occurred at a similar rate. As an illustration, he noted that all the Kennedy brothers served while none of their children did.

House and Senate information offices said they do not have a comprehensive list of members who are military parents.

The small group of lawmakers who've announced or confirmed that their kids are now serving includes Johnson, Kline and Republican Reps. Todd Akin of Missouri, Duncan Hunter of California, Marilyn Musgrave of Colorado, Ed Schrock of Virginia and Joe Wilson of South Carolina.

For Wilson, three of his sons currently are in the service.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Conflict with Iraq: Some members of Congress have great personal interest in the war

Thursday, April 10, 2003

By TOM FORD, Minneapolis-St. Paul Star Tribune

Of the 535 members of Congress, at least seven have a great personal interest: They have children in the military who already are participating in the war or could be called to do so.


And 528 could give a shit about the kids they send. BTW, still only ONE serving in a combat role in Kuwait.

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
And 528 could give a shit about the kids they send. BTW, still only ONE serving in a combat role in Kuwait.

Well actually the percentage of people in Congress that have kids or close relatives serving in the military is much higher than that of the American adult population. For members of Congress it is 0.013% or about 1 out of every 76 Congressmen. For American adults it is 0.0067% or about 1 out of 149.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Well actually the percentage of people in Congress that have kids or close relatives serving in the military is much higher than that of the American adult population. For members of Congress it is 0.013% or about 1 out of every 76 Congressmen. For American adults it is 0.0067% or about 1 out of 149.

Ohh pul-ese'! Can you strech this bullshit line of thinking any further!?

Okay, let me revise my statement, I wonder if any Senators' second cousin, twice removed was on that CH-53? I doubt it.

Your sophist, Neo Con arguments for this war a nearly as absurd.

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Ohh pul-ese'! Can you strech this bullshit line of thinking any further!?

Okay, let me revise my statement, I wonder if any Senators' second cousin, twice removed was on that CH-53? I doubt it.

Your sophist, Neo Con arguments for this war a nearly as absurd.

No that's about it. Absurd? Disprove the number then. I think that the Left's implied bullshit of members of Congress voting for the war but having no personal investment in it ( ie afamily member) has been nuked.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
I think that the Left's implied bullshit of members of Congress voting for the war but having no personal investment in it ( ie afamily member) has been nuked.


They're still a bunch of pussies for giving gw&friends carte blanche.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
No that's about it. Absurd? Disprove the number then. I think that the Left's implied bullshit of members of Congress voting for the war but having no personal investment in it ( ie afamily member) has been nuked.

Disprove flagrant irrelevance? Why bother. Nuked? Yeah, okay, one son in the 82nd Airborne is all you can show me, but then again, never having served, you are probably quite sympathetic to the argument regarding personal investments or lack of therein.

After all, "There's lies, damn lies, and then there's statistics." You seem to quite adept at all three!

[Cathedral]

I'm not sure what the point is by bringing up that the sons and daughters of our elected officials don't serve in the military.
But since the military is an all volunteer service, my guess would be that they (the sons and daughters) didn't want to join.

To expand on my guess: Those who were born with golden spoons in their mouths rarely join the service and risk losing their charmed lives.

However, there was a point in history where damn near every famiy, rich and poor, were military families regardless of wealth.

The climate of our nations mentality has changed, and it only serves to weaken us before our enemies, wake up.

But this thread troubles me for another reason, An American took the word of Al-Jezzera over the word of his own country.
Our reporting is flawed in many ways, but still has about a 95% credibility rating over the lying sacks of shit running Al-Jezzera.

Sorry, but that is NOT showing support for our troops if you jump on stories like this just because it advances your hate agenda.

I'd almost bet that if this war had been started by a Liberal Administration all the Bush haters would be supporting the effort. I mean that is after all the motivation for threads like this one isn't it? Hatred for Bush?

36 soldiers died, How about a thread honoring them instead of using them as a way to slam an admin. you don't respect?
Especially when your source of info was flawed, and you should have known better.

Don't insult me by telling me you support the troops after the knee jerk reaction that resulted in this bullshit thread.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Cathedral
I'm not sure what the point is by bringing up that the sons and daughters of our elected officials don't serve in the military.
But since the military is an all volunteer service, my guess would be that they (the sons and daughters) didn't want to join.

It's much easier to send an all volunteer force to fight and die isn't it? Large scale protests against the Vietnam War ended when the draft ended in 1973.


To expand on my guess: Those who were born with golden spoons in their mouths rarely join the service and risk losing their charmed lives.

Point well taken, though there are many that do despite the fact the military doesn't like soldiers with "F-U money," they aren't quite as scared of a bad conduct discharge as the rest of us.


However, there was a point in history where damn near every famiy, rich and poor, were military families regardless of wealth.

From about 1940-1973.




But this thread troubles me for another reason, An American took the word of Al-Jezzera over the word of his own country.
Our reporting is flawed in many ways, but still has about a 95% credibility rating over the lying sacks of shit running Al-Jezzera.

Which American was that?


Sorry, but that is NOT showing support for our troops if you jump on stories like this just because it advances your hate agenda.

I'd almost bet that if this war had been started by a Liberal Administration all the Bush haters would be supporting the effort. I mean that is after all the motivation for threads like this one isn't it? Hatred for Bush?

36 soldiers died, How about a thread honoring them instead of using them as a way to slam an admin. you don't respect?
Especially when your source of info was flawed, and you should have known better.

Don't insult me by telling me you support the troops after the knee jerk reaction that resulted in this bullshit thread.

How about not so cavalierly sending people into harms way in a 'preemptive war based on fabrications! I'd rather honor military personnel by insuring they only risk their lives in real threats, not contrived bullshit. And people dying is a real issue.

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Disprove flagrant irrelevance? Why bother. Nuked? Yeah, okay, one son in the 82nd Airborne is all you can show me, but then again, never having served, you are probably quite sympathetic to the argument regarding personal investments or lack of therein.

After all, "There's lies, damn lies, and then there's statistics." You seem to quite adept at all three!

You seem to have quite a hang up about me not being in the military. Have I been disqualified from the discussion again? I have a step-brother in the service and he's been to Iraq twice, does that count?

And since you are calling me a liar you are free to point out where I have lied about the numbers I cited. As far as the article goes, I didn't write it.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
You seem to have quite a hang up about me not being in the military. Have I been disqualified from the discussion again? I have a step-brother in the service and he's been to Iraq twice, does that count?

And since you are calling me a liar you are free to point out where I have lied about the numbers I cited. As far as the article goes, I didn't write it.

Good for your step-brother. I was pointing out that your silly Fox inspired exercise of percentages bullshit is nothing but hyperbolic irrelevance as statistics, in cases such as this, are mere sophistic manipulations. Perhaps you didn't recognize the quote from Mark Twain, but that what he was referring too. Elaborate attempt to twist a commentary into some silly-ass "well people in congress know a lot of sailors" bullshit! Who cares! Tell that one to the parents of the kids that have gotten killed!

And again tell me, were any members of Congress' kids on that Marine chopper, and how many are in harm's way. That was my comment, you are the one that is trying to "nuke" that fact and turning truth into an argument. Seven in the service (at most if you count inactive reservists) and one in the region. This is the only statistic that matters. Gimme' a fucking break.

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by Cathedral

But this thread troubles me for another reason, An American took the word of Al-Jezzera over the word of his own country.
Our reporting is flawed in many ways, but still has about a 95% credibility rating over the lying sacks of shit running Al-Jezzera.

Sorry, but that is NOT showing support for our troops if you jump on stories like this just because it advances your hate agenda.

I'd almost bet that if this war had been started by a Liberal Administration all the Bush haters would be supporting the effort. I mean that is after all the motivation for threads like this one isn't it? Hatred for Bush?

Don't insult me by telling me you support the troops after the knee jerk reaction that resulted in this bullshit thread.

Actually the thread was started by a German jerk. No, they don't dare say "Yay! more dead Americans! Take that Bush!" yet that is exactly what is implied - though they'll deny it.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
It's much easier to send an all volunteer force to fight and die isn't it? Large scale protests against the Vietnam War ended when the draft ended in 1973.

It's never easy to send troops into war, regardless.

Point well taken, though there are many that do despite the fact the military doesn't like soldiers with "F-U money," they aren't quite as scared of a bad conduct discharge as the rest of us.

Again another example of how our society needs an overhaul.



From about 1940-1973.
My family included, none returned from WWII.





Which American was that?
Ah, got caught in my own knee jerk reaction. the author of this thread claims to be in Germany, so i wasted my breath.



How about not so cavalierly sending people into harms way in a 'preemptive war based on fabrications! I'd rather honor military personnel by insuring they only risk their lives in real threats, not contrived bullshit. And people dying is a real issue.

Yes it is a real issue, Just ask the Iraqi's who have suffered and died under Saddam. I don't agree with all the reasons given for this war, but it was unfinished business from '91 and liberating that country is long overdue in my opinion.
Also, you have to look towards the future, and what these threats you don't see now could fester into. We cannot wait until one of these cells becomes too strong to fight them, and Iraq is a key zone for waging this battle by reforming the nations that live in tyranny.
If we don't, let me tell you that we are number one on their list of targets, and it appears that the muslims have sights set on world domination, which will end up in global war to the end for all of us. My only fear is that this war will not do much but buy us time. Another attack is coming, to think otherwise is a grave mistake.

Of course this is just my point of view after looking at the big picture, not just Iraq.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Actually the thread was started by a German jerk. No, they don't dare say "Yay! more dead Americans! Take that Bush!" yet that is exactly what is implied - though they'll deny it.

I saw that, I guess i just assume that all of us here are in the states, lol. It was an honest mistake.

Doesn't change the fact that if i were in arms reach of him i'd be kicking his ass thoroughly for his lack of respect for our dead.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Actually the thread was started by a German jerk. No, they don't dare say "Yay! more dead Americans! Take that Bush!" yet that is exactly what is implied - though they'll deny it.

I don't agree with much of what Kentucky says, but I don't believe he was rejoicing over the death.

Don't confuse black humor and angry indifference with joy. Just ask any firefighter what a "barbecue" is.

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Good for your step-brother. I was pointing out that your silly Fox inspired exercise of percentages bullshit is nothing but hyperbolic irrelevance as statistics, in cases such as this, are mere sophistic manipulations. Perhaps you didn't recognize the quote from Mark Twain, but that what he was referring too. Elaborate attempt to twist a commentary into some silly-ass "well people in congress know a lot of sailors" bullshit! Who cares! Tell that one to the parents of the kids that have gotten killed!

And again tell me, were any members of Congress' kids on that Marine chopper, and how many are in harm's way. That was my comment, you are the one that is trying to "nuke" that fact and turning truth into an argument. Seven in the service (at most if you count inactive reservists) and one in the region. This is the only statistic that matters. Gimme' a fucking break.

Yes Perfesser, I recognized the Twain quote. Hyperbolic? Compared to what the left is saying about this war and Bush? Compared to your rhetoric? Are you smoking crack?

The only reason I brought up the numbers is because of this constant drumbeat from left-wingers that the Congress that authorized the war didn't have family in the military and I pointed out that percentage-wise, they actually have much more than the adult population of this country. It's hardly elaborate. Seven that we know of - there are probably more but I would think because of security concerns some are not talking about it.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Cathedral

But this thread troubles me for another reason, An American took the word of Al-Jezzera over the word of his own country.

Our reporting is flawed in many ways, but still has about a 95% credibility rating over the lying sacks of shit running Al-Jezzera.[/B]

Sorry Cat but that's false. The Pentagon itself recently revealed plans to use the media to run fake stories for strategic and propoganda purposes. They've intentionally degraded their own credibility, and did it in public!

That said, Al Jazeera is not a balanced, credible news organization either.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Yes Perfesser, I recognized the Twain quote. Hyperbolic? Compared to what the left is saying about this war and Bush? Compared to your rhetoric? Are you smoking crack?



My rhetoric? Okay Neo Con, defend the War then! You're the one throwing around your bullshit talk radio lingo. The Left being hyperbolic, sorry, but this war has been predicated on fear, faulty logic, pseudo-morality, those are all hyperboles from the right. The only one smoking crack here is you which is made apparent by your phony, contrived defenses of this war and your utter lack of knowledge of anything military. People like you are responsible for the death of these troops, your mindless, callous bullshit! But you have the nerve to blame the German guy, who doesn't want them there dying, for giving you the bad news. Yeah, you rightists are all for the troops getting killed for your cheap fucking gasoline. I actually think the German guy even cares more about those Marines. You cite bullshit, meaningless statistics to show how empathetic the congress is! Yeah right. Why don't you go write an essay about how evil Clinton is for covering up a blowjob and praise the mighty Bush for consistently misrepresenting every fact regarding Iraq. Tell me all about partisan hyperbole!



The only reason I brought up the numbers is because of this constant drumbeat from left-wingers that the Congress that authorized the war didn't have family in the military and I pointed out that percentage-wise, they actually have much more than the adult population of this country. It's hardly elaborate. Seven that we know of - there are probably more but I would think because of security concerns some are not talking about it.

No, you brought the numbers in because you are pissed we lost chess pieces, not human beings. All you care about is if we win or lose, as if this War is some big fucking football game. You'd send thousands more to their death before you realize that we can't win and the long term prognosis for Iraq is fucking bleak! But Dubya said everything will be fine after the election! So it must be so! Praise gaud, eh sunshine?

You were pissed off at the German only because he dared implied that the Iraqi insurgents may have scored a touchdown on us. You are truly the typical fool filled with blind hubris that can't see the forest through the trees. The typical right-wing Republican that has never served, but is so puffed up on supa'-patriotic pride that he has no moral right to have since life-long civilians talking about war is like a virgin talking about sex. It's a nebulous concept full of misguided preconceptions. You are far closer to being a callous tyrant than that German, because at least they have learned their lessons about following their beloved leaders blindly and shoving tanks around the world to solve all their problems. And Iraq still never attacked us on 9/11.

[ODShowtime]

slash and burn nick!

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
My rhetoric? Okay Neo Con, defend the War then! You're the one throwing around your bullshit talk radio lingo. The Left being hyperbolic, sorry, but this war has been predicated on fear, faulty logic, pseudo-morality, those are all hyperboles from the right. The only one smoking crack here is you which is made apparent by your phony, contrived defenses of this war and your utter lack of knowledge of anything military. People like you are responsible for the death of these troops, your mindless, callous bullshit! But you have the nerve to blame the German guy, who doesn't want them there dying, for giving you the bad news. Yeah, you rightists are all for the troops getting killed for your cheap fucking gasoline. I actually think the German guy even cares more about those Marines. You cite bullshit, meaningless statistics to show how empathetic the congress is! Yeah right. Why don't you go write an essay about how evil Clinton is for covering up a blowjob and praise the mighty Bush for consistently misrepresenting every fact regarding Iraq. Tell me all about partisan hyperbole!




No, you brought the numbers in because you are pissed we lost chess pieces, not human beings. All you care about is if we win or lose, as if this War is some big fucking football game. You'd send thousands more to their death before you realize that we can't win and the long term prognosis for Iraq is fucking bleak! But Dubya said everything will be fine after the election! So it must be so! Praise gaud, eh sunshine?

You were pissed off at the German only because he dared implied that the Iraqi insurgents may have scored a touchdown on us. You are truly the typical fool filled with blind hubris that can't see the forest through the trees. The typical right-wing Republican that has never served, but is so puffed up on supa'-patriotic pride that he has no moral right to have since life-long civilians talking about war is like a virgin talking about sex. It's a nebulous concept full of misguided preconceptions. You are far closer to being a callous tyrant than that German, because at least they have learned their lessons about following their beloved leaders blindly and shoving tanks around the world to solve all their problems. And Iraq still never attacked us on 9/11.

Yaaawwwn - more later.

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by Cathedral
I saw that, I guess i just assume that all of us here are in the states, lol. It was an honest mistake.

Doesn't change the fact that if i were in arms reach of him i'd be kicking his ass thoroughly for his lack of respect for our dead. What´s more pathetic than an internet tough guy??

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
What´s more pathetic than an internet tough guy??

See, the thing is that he most likely would ring your neck for talking irreverantly about American servicemen who gave their lives. They and really all soldiers fighting for their homelands deserve respect.

That said, say what you want dude. That's what this place is for. cocksmoker!

[Nickdfresh]

I still am waiting for someone to repost what Kentuckyklira said that was so horrible and degrading towards the dead Marines.

Anyways, a father who wasn't a congressman mourns his dead son.

Base mourns deadliest day for U.S. in Iraq
Father: Son killed in chopper crash was headed home soon

Wednesday, January 26, 2005 Posted: 9:46 PM EST (0246 GMT)

CAMP PENDLETON, California (CNN) -- The father of a U.S. Marine killed in a helicopter crash Wednesday in Iraq said his son was due to come home in March. Twenty-nine other Marines and a Navy corpsman also died in the crash.

Meanwhile, a somber mood settled on Camp Pendleton, on a day that saw the loss of a total of 34 Marines in Iraq.

"It was like someone punching you in the heart," Lt. Col. T.V. Johnson said after learning the news.

Lance Cpl. Tony Hernandez was based at Camp Pendleton, his parents told CNN affiliate KABB-TV in San Antonio, Texas. They said they didn't know his unit.

The CH-53E Super Stallion crashed at about 1:20 a.m. Baghdad time near Rutba in western Iraq. The Marine transport chopper, operated by the 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing, was carrying personnel from the 1st Marine Division. The wing and division are units of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force.

Four Marines from the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force died Wednesday in combat, also in al-Anbar province, the military said.

Because the military has not released a list of those killed, it wasn't clear how many other victims were based at Camp Pendleton, a Marine Corps base north of San Diego.

About 30,000 Marines serving in Iraq are based at Camp Pendleton, including units of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, Johnson said.

Marine officials were notifying family members and planned to officially release the names of the deceased within 24 hours.

Johnson said Camp Pendleton was in a "world of hurt."
'Every mother's nightmare'

Leroy Hernandez said in a television interview that his daughter called him at work early Wednesday and told him his 22-year-old son had died. Two Marines were at the house, she told her father, who lives at Canyon Lake.

"By the time I got home, my wife and kids were here," and they were trying to contact his son's wife in California, he said.

And Tony Hernandez's mother, Jan Trout, who is divorced from Leroy Hernandez, called her son's death "every mother's nightmare."

But she said she recognized that when someone goes to war, there is always the chance they won't return.

Leroy Hernandez said his son initially was not eligible to join the Marines, because, at more than 200 pounds, he was overweight. But he lost the weight by exercising and became a Marine, serving in San Diego until he went to Iraq.

Leroy Hernandez said he supports the U.S. mission in Iraq, and his son believed in what he was doing.

"The price of democracy is very expensive. These kids are doing what they think is right," he added.
Under investigation

In addition, two U.S. soldiers were killed in separate incidents, bringing the U.S. military death toll to 37 and making Wednesday the deadliest day for American forces in the Iraq war to date.

The cause of the chopper crash is under investigation, but it appears to be weather-related, said Gen. John Abizaid, who's in charge of American military operations in Iraq, Afghanistan and other parts of the region as chief of U.S. Central Command.

"The weather was bad. We don't know of any enemy action. The investigation continues," Abizaid said.

U.S. military personnel at the crash site reported heavy fog in the area.

There is no evidence of any survivors, Abizaid said, adding that the helicopter was on a routine mission in support of Sunday's elections.

"It's a dangerous environment that we operate in in Iraq. We all understand that, and again our condolences [go] to the families," he said.

With the latest fatalities, 1,418 U.S. troops have died in the war.

The previous most-deadly day for U.S. troops was March 23, 2003 -- four days after the start of the war. Thirty-one U.S. forces died then, including 29 in combat.

At a news conference Wednesday, President Bush said, "Any time we lose life it is a sad moment."

CNN's Miguel Marquez and Jamie McIntyre contributed to this report.

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
They and really all soldiers fighting for their homelands deserve respect.

So the Wehrmacht and the Waffen SS deserve respect for 1941-1945!

Wow, that´s new to me!:confused: :eek:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
So the Wehrmacht and the Waffen SS deserve respect for 1941-1945!

Wow, that´s new to me!:confused: :eek:

It's not the same and you know it! We have yet to execute 30 Iraqis for every Humvee blown up (Nazi style!).;)
http://www.thenausea.com/elements/germany/executions38.jpg
http://www.thenausea.com/elements/germany/execution_016.jpg
Let's keep things in perspective and piss off with the gratuitous assertions!

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
So the Wehrmacht and the Waffen SS deserve respect for 1941-1945!

Wow, that´s new to me!:confused: :eek:

The majority of regular Wehrmacht soldiers did deserve respect. They fought hard and bravely - for a shitty cause. Most SS and all the top general staff are a different case. Even some of them tried to stop Hitler. He was nuts though.

See any parallels here with lower and middle class soldiers fighting bravely and honorably for a bad cause?

[ODShowtime]

I can't believe I'm sticking up for the Werhmact to a German. This place is crazy!

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I still am waiting for someone to repost what Kentuckyklira said that was so horrible and degrading towards the dead Marines.



It's all about context. Read his sig. It's absolutely revolting. Couple that with his posting the story in the first place and making the insinuation that the resistance shot down the helo and people tend to get pissed. It's understandable. :mad:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
The majority of regular Wehrmacht soldiers did deserve respect. They fought hard and bravely - for a shitty cause. Most SS and all the top general staff are a different case. Even some of them tried to stop Hitler. He was nuts though.

See any parallels here with lower and middle class soldiers fighting bravely and honorably for a bad cause?

One relatively little known historical fact is that the German Polezi's (regular police) had a significant role in the Holocaust, rounding up Jews and even guarding the Death Camps. You know how many civilian Polezi were charged with war crimes at Nuremberg? I believe the number is ZERO!

BTW, guess what Arnold Schwarzenegger's father did in Austria during WWII, yup', he was a Polezi Officer. That explains Arny's numerous contributions to Jewish causes over the years.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
It's all about context. Read his sig. It's absolutely revolting. Couple that with his posting the story in the first place and making the insinuation that the resistance shot down the helo and people tend to get pissed. It's understandable. :mad:

I called him on his sig and to his credit hew modified it adding "sabotage" implying passive rather then militant resistance. Again, everything is context.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
I can't believe I'm sticking up for the Werhmact to a German. This place is crazy!

Actually one of the dark little secrets in Germany is that the Wehrmacht DID in fact contribute to the atrocities in WWII. There was an exhibit a few years ago showing photos of regular German Army troops executing people.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Actually one of the dark little secrets in Germany is that the Wehrmacht DID in fact contribute to the atrocities in WWII. There was an exhibit a few years ago showing photos of regular German Army troops executing people.

Some did commit war crimes, I'm not arguing that. But just like how the entire US Army shouldn't be judged by that actions of a few (lindey&graner come to mind), neither should the Wermacht SOLDIERS.

It doesn't really matter really. The fuckers blew up most of Europe, which isn't polite.

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
It's all about context. Read his sig. It's absolutely revolting. Couple that with his posting the story in the first place and making the insinuation that the resistance shot down the helo and people tend to get pissed. It's understandable. :mad: That´s known as

"Mission Accomplished"!
:rockit2:

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
My rhetoric? Okay Neo Con, defend the War then! You're the one throwing around your bullshit talk radio lingo. The Left being hyperbolic, sorry, but this war has been predicated on fear, faulty logic, pseudo-morality, those are all hyperboles from the right. The only one smoking crack here is you which is made apparent by your phony, contrived defenses of this war and your utter lack of knowledge of anything military.

You can keep calling what I say “bullshit” but you still can’t dispute then umbers I cited. Any child can sit and bitch about how the war is not going perfectly, especially when they have invested everything into hoping that it will fail because they hate the commander in chief. No war is perfect, clean or without cost but that is exactly how military experts like yourself claim this war must be to be considered a success. You and Teddy Kennedy say that before the war is even over that we have already lost. Pathetic. Did the Union win the Civil War? Hundreds of thousands dead, the President assassinated, half the country in ruins and occupied and rebels still roaming the countryside. You guys would have claimed without a doubt that there would be no way the Union could claim “victory”. You can substitute any war and with your “We lost no matter what” – “Bush Hate” mindset and consider it a lost war. You can also point out any time where I am lacking in military history.


Originally posted by Nickdfresh
People like you are responsible for the death of these troops, your mindless, callous bullshit! But you have the nerve to blame the German guy, who doesn't want them there dying, for giving you the bad news. Yeah, you rightists are all for the troops getting killed for your cheap fucking gasoline. I actually think the German guy even cares more about those Marines. You cite bullshit, meaningless statistics to show how empathetic the congress is! Yeah right. Why don't you go write an essay about how evil Clinton is for covering up a blowjob and praise the mighty Bush for consistently misrepresenting every fact regarding Iraq. Tell me all about partisan hyperbole!

People like me? I think not. The terrorists and Ba’athists still fighting in Iraq are doing so precisely because people like YOU “and the German guy” are giving them encouragement to continue. And they you are so simple minded as to think that I am “blaming the messenger (The German guy)” because he brings for bad news. Have you READ his signature? I maintain that he, and others of his ilk, are celebrating any American setback in Iraq and THAT is EXACTLY why he posted it.

Yes that’s right, continue the juvenile protest-placard style of criticism of people who were in favor of ousting Hussein – that’s right, I’m glad Americans are dying in Iraq so I can have cheap gas. How stupid. But, “No Blood For Oil” fits nicely on a bumper sticker. If you think the German guy “cares” more for American troops in Iraq I’ll repeat that you must be smoking crack. I never said Congress was “empathetic”, I only pointed out that the left’s Michael Moronic Chickenhawk argument is at about the same intellectual level of a 4 year-old. Clinton? I never brought him up – you did.





Originally posted by Nickdfresh
No, you brought the numbers in because you are pissed we lost chess pieces, not human beings. All you care about is if we win or lose, as if this War is some big fucking football game. You'd send thousands more to their death before you realize that we can't win and the long term prognosis for Iraq is fucking bleak! But Dubya said everything will be fine after the election! So it must be so! Praise gaud, eh sunshine?

Again, who’s hyperbolic here? Can I get a ruling judge? Of course I want the U.S. to win the war – and you don’t? I know that most left-winger Bush haters DON’T want the U.S. to win.


Originally posted by Nickdfresh
You were pissed off at the German only because he dared implied that the Iraqi insurgents may have scored a touchdown on us. You are truly the typical fool filled with blind hubris that can't see the forest through the trees. The typical right-wing Republican that has never served, but is so puffed up on supa'-patriotic pride that he has no moral right to have since life-long civilians talking about war is like a virgin talking about sex. It's a nebulous concept full of misguided preconceptions. You are far closer to being a callous tyrant than that German, because at least they have learned their lessons about following their beloved leaders blindly and shoving tanks around the world to solve all their problems. And Iraq still never attacked us on 9/11.

No, for the most part I didn’t like his post because it contained false PROPOGANDA. Oops, here we are back at the Chickenhawk argument. Can’t you think of anything else? That’s all you’ve got? Should U.S. Presidents be required to have served in the military? What of the veterans who are in support of the war in Iraq? This lame argument has no legs to stand on when examined in any depth but on the surface it sounds good to left-wingers. Comparing Nazi aggression to the U.S. using it’s military? Wow. You can’t seriously compare the wars of European aggression to the United States’ use of military power. Apples and oranges – and it is this simplistic comparison that always negates this notion of the Germans knowing that the use of a military is EVIL – no matter what.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
I never said Congress was “empathetic”, I only pointed out that the left’s Michael Moronic Chickenhawk argument is at about the same intellectual level of a 4 year-old. Clinton? I never brought him up – you did.

Do you understand how stupid you and all of the people like you sound when you discount everything liberals say about the war by saying they got it from a fucking movie? You really should know better than that.

See, the "fight 'em in Iraq instead of here" bullshit really is aimed at people with the intellect of 4 year olds. I don't understand how someone could have such rich background knowledge and completely miss the big picture.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
You can keep calling what I say “bullshit” but you still can’t dispute then umbers I cited. Any child can sit and bitch about how the war is not going perfectly, especially when they have invested everything into hoping that it will fail because they hate the commander in chief. No war is perfect, clean or without cost but that is exactly how military experts like yourself claim this war must be to be considered a success. You and Teddy Kennedy say that before the war is even over that we have already lost. Pathetic. Did the Union win the Civil War? Hundreds of thousands dead, the President assassinated, half the country in ruins and occupied and rebels still roaming the countryside. You guys would have claimed without a doubt that there would be no way the Union could claim “victory”. You can substitute any war and with your “We lost no matter what” – “Bush Hate” mindset and consider it a lost war. You can also point out any time where I am lacking in military history.


Accept the numbers relevance? Who cares? Is that the best you've got to spam this thread, meaningless numbers concocted on an anti-F9/11 site. Fucking useless. Who cares? I said son or daughters, not third cousins. I done debating with your sophist arguments on it.

And yes I hate Bush because he has cost over 1,400 Americans and possibly over 100,000 Iraqis their lives based on exaggeratted intelligence and outright fabrications. Now go drink your Neo Con Bullshit flavored Kool-Aid Busheep.



People like me? I think not. The terrorists and Ba’athists still fighting in Iraq are doing so precisely because people like YOU “and the German guy” are giving them encouragement to continue.

If you believe that one, you are truly retarded.


And they you are so simple minded as to think that I am “blaming the messenger (The German guy)” because he brings for bad news. Have you READ his signature? I maintain that he, and others of his ilk, are celebrating any American setback in Iraq and THAT is EXACTLY why he posted it.

Yeah, maybe I'm simple minded, but at least I can use my "simple mind' to think for my self Busheep. Don't you have some opinions to be spoon fed by Rush and Fox and Friends?

BTW, I was the first to call Kentuckyklira on his sig, but since you post here once in a while, yet seem to know fucking everything about me, it's a mystery as to how you didn't know that.


Yes that’s right, continue the juvenile protest-placard style of criticism of people who were in favor of ousting Hussein – that’s right, I’m glad Americans are dying in Iraq so I can have cheap gas. How stupid. But, “No Blood For Oil” fits nicely on a bumper sticker. If you think the German guy “cares” more for American troops in Iraq I’ll repeat that you must be smoking crack. I never said Congress was “empathetic”, I only pointed out that the left’s Michael Moronic Chickenhawk argument is at about the same intellectual level of a 4 year-old. Clinton? I never brought him up – you did.


Yeah, you so smart you fail to see the irony of cowards who have never served sending people to their deaths in a callous effort to prop up their failed, destructive policies of trying to remake the world while habitually discounting the opinions and advice of any military people that disagree.

You engage in useless sophist arguments to distract from real, pertinent issues.




Again, who’s hyperbolic here? Can I get a ruling judge? Of course I want the U.S. to win the war – and you don’t? I know that most left-winger Bush haters DON’T want the U.S. to win.

Don't confuse being a mindless enabler with being patriotic. I want the U.S. to stop fighting stupid, dirty wars under false pretenses. You know nothing of military matters. Fell free to join up at anytime to learn about counterinsurgency and low-intensity conflict. Oh I forgot, just cause you never served still doesn't preclude you from having opinions.



No, for the most part I didn’t like his post because it contained false PROPOGANDA. Oops, here we are back at the Chickenhawk argument. Can’t you think of anything else? That’s all you’ve got? Should U.S. Presidents be required to have served in the military? What of the veterans who are in support of the war in Iraq? This lame argument has no legs to stand on when examined in any depth but on the surface it sounds good to left-wingers. Comparing Nazi aggression to the U.S. using it’s military? Wow. You can’t seriously compare the wars of European aggression to the United States’ use of military power. Apples and oranges – and it is this simplistic comparison that always negates this notion of the Germans knowing that the use of a military is EVIL – no matter what.

I like how you discount my arguments then parrot them and try to turn them back at me. Simply stated, you are full of shit and a simpleton, knee-jerk nationalist that hasn't a clue about much. His comparison is valid when irrational Neo Cons are in charge and blindly believe they can end terrorism by invading a country that never attacked us and in turn provide a training ground/recruitment center for terrorists. Try reading the "What If" argument by REPUBLICAN Congressman Ron Paul of Texas post by Ford in this thread, you might learn something:
http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=380228#post380228

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Accept the numbers relevance? Who cares? Is that the best you've got to spam this thread, meaningless numbers concocted on an anti-F9/11 site. Fucking useless. Who cares? I said son or daughters, not third cousins. I done debating with your sophist arguments on it.

I looked up the numbers myself using standard information – census, U.S. military, members of Congress. Unlike some people who get everything from Democrap Underground. The best I’ve got? No, I posted it merely to counter the tired old Mikey Moore line about how Congressmen won’t send their sons and daughters to war that YOU posted. Did you even read it? It’s not “third cousins” as you continue to falsely claim. Since you didn’t bother to read it the first time I’ll post it again. The article says;

“Of the 535 members of Congress, at least seven have a great personal interest: They have children in the military who already are participating in the war or could be called to do so.”
“House and Senate information offices said they do not have a comprehensive list of members who are military parents.

The small group of lawmakers who've announced or confirmed that their kids are now serving includes Johnson, Kline and Republican Reps. Todd Akin of Missouri, Duncan Hunter of California, Marilyn Musgrave of Colorado, Ed Schrock of Virginia and Joe Wilson of South Carolina.

For Wilson, three of his sons currently are in the service.”
end quote

Doesn’t say anything about 3rd cousins in there – sunshine.


Originally posted by Nickdfresh
And yes I hate Bush because he has cost over 1,400 Americans and possibly over 100,000 Iraqis their lives based on exaggeratted intelligence and outright fabrications. Now go drink your Neo Con Bullshit flavored Kool-Aid Busheep.

You and your ilk hated Bush long before the war even started. Every other Western power had the same intelligence – and yes even Clinton – had the same intelligence. The difference is no one wanted to act on it. Like I’ve said before, if you and others left-wingers think that since we’ve found no wmd – in Iraq – that the whole war was for nothing then you must then call for the immediate reinstatement of Saddam as President of Iraq – period.



Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Yeah, maybe I'm simple minded, but at least I can use my "simple mind' to think for my self Busheep. Don't you have some opinions to be spoon fed by Rush and Fox and Friends? .
Really? Did you think that one up yourself (Busheep)?



Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Yeah, you so smart you fail to see the irony of cowards who have never served sending people to their deaths in a callous effort to prop up their failed, destructive policies of trying to remake the world while habitually discounting the opinions and advice of any military people that disagree.

Like I said – what about the veterans who agree with Bush and the war in Iraq? Are they to be discounted too? You also seem to fail to see the irony of the left who say “If you haven’t been in the military then shut the fuck up” (unless you agree with us, then it’s ok) about liberating millions of people from a totalitarian dictatorship – while at the same time they have never experienced living under such rule themselves – “cowards” indeed.

Lincoln would fall very neatly into your tidy little definition of a Chickenhawk too.



Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Don't confuse being a mindless enabler with being patriotic. I want the U.S. to stop fighting stupid, dirty wars under false pretenses. You know nothing of military matters. Fell free to join up at anytime to learn about counterinsurgency and low-intensity conflict. Oh I forgot, just cause you never served still doesn't preclude you from having opinions. .

So you must feel the same about people like Stephen Ambrose and John Keegan. They must not know anything of the military since they didn’t serve. Make sure you don’t ever offer commentary on education since you were never a teacher as I was.



Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I like how you discount my arguments then parrot them and try to turn them back at me. Simply stated, you are full of shit and a simpleton, knee-jerk nationalist that hasn't a clue about much. His comparison is valid when irrational Neo Cons are in charge and blindly believe they can end terrorism by invading a country that never attacked us and in turn provide a training ground/recruitment center for terrorists. Try reading the "What If" argument by REPUBLICAN Congressman Ron Paul of Texas post by Ford in this thread, you might learn something:

Hmm – Afghanistan never attacked us either. The South never attacked the North either (they fired on a Fort in their own territory). Germany never attacked the U.S., neither did Italy.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz


“Of the 535 members of Congress, at least seven have a...

I DON'T GIVE A SHIT! HAVING A RELATIVE AND SENDING YOU'RE CHILD are two very different things. Moot point in any case since I don't care, move on.



You and your ilk hated Bush long before the war even started. Every other Western power had the same intelligence – and yes even Clinton – had the same intelligence. The difference is no one wanted to act on it.

No! I hated the fact that Bush won the election despite the credible accusations of fraud and while losing the popular vote (I get tired of rehashing the same arguments over and over but here goes.)

Since when does the Bush Admin. speak for the intelligence agencies of other governments! Which ones, the British? They have a few controversies over there of their own! A misleading claim at best.

a.) Bush undermined the Weapons Inspectors and assumed it was a "Slam Dunk" (ala' Tenet). He assumed that since they didn't find anything that they were being duped, when in fact only the American people were duped.

b.) Numerous articles and reporting surfaced from CIA sources basically saying that the Bush Admin was pressuring the agency to come up with conclusions about WMD's not supported by the available data and despite the fact the intelligence was actually coming from biased defectors with questionable backgrounds and ulterior motives such as Chalabi.

c.) The Pentagon High Command (since purged by Scumsfeld and Wolfieshitz) were advocating the continuation of the "Containment Policy" regarding Iraq since the Iraqi military was severally degraded by sanctions (which worked!) and was unable to mount offensive operations and in fact were worried that Iraq was no longer able to counter-balance Iran as a secular, if tyrannical, regional power.


Like I’ve said before, if you and others left-wingers think that since we’ve found no wmd – in Iraq – that the whole war was for nothing then you must then call for the immediate reinstatement of Saddam as President of Iraq – period.

A very bizarre, Orwellian statement! Thanks for telling me what I believe. Actually, I think that if we invaded Iraq as a mission of merciful liberation of the poor, downtrodden Iraqis, then we need to draft a huge army, roll those tanks and fighters after the following regimes:

Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt, Burma, Iran;) , Syria, Cuba, Uzbekistan, China, and most of all North Korea-- just to name a few!

Send out those draft notices because Sheriff Uncle Sam is now out to liberate the entire fucking world by attacking any country under any sort of a despotic regime! All the while torturing and holding enemy combatants with no regard to the Geneva Conventions! Hey, they can now do that to our soldiers too I guess. What wonderful, hypocritical, and faulty logic you employ. By the way, "Freedom is slavery!" and "War is peace!" "We care about the Iraqi people so much!"

http://static.userland.com/sh4/images/booknotes/rumsfeldsaddam.jpg


Really? Did you think that one up yourself (Busheep)?

Well I certainly can figure out your faulty logic for you. Things a getting little clearer now?


Like I said – what about the veterans who agree with Bush and the war in Iraq? Are they to be discounted too? You also seem to fail to see the irony of the left who say “If you haven’t been in the military then shut the fuck up” (unless you agree with us, then it’s ok) about liberating millions of people from a totalitarian dictatorship – while at the same time they have never experienced living under such rule themselves – “cowards” indeed.

Sure some agree, but I bet you the ones that do do not share your hyper-resounding clarity about the ease of the war in Iraq, we have had a few post here, and I think the quote was something to the affect that "We drive around waiting for someone to bomb us." And that things are "pretty fucked up" over there.


Lincoln would fall very neatly into your tidy little definition of a Chickenhawk too.

Wrong! Lincoln was in the Illinois Militia, he was a Captain I believe. I believe FDR would be a better example. He was an excellent war president! But then again he figured out which country attacked us and claimed war on Japan, not the Dutch East Indies like Dubya would have (the DEI had oil back then).


So you must feel the same about people like Stephen Ambrose and John Keegan. They must not know anything of the military since they didn’t serve. Make sure you don’t ever offer commentary on education since you were never a teacher as I was.


Why? Did they advocate for and support a war they tried to avoid only to seek service in, the typical rich, right-wing boys way out, the National Guard so they could have their cake and eat it too?

No. It's not about military knowledge, FDR got us through WWII alright (though military experience sure contextualizes the bullshit spin one hears on TV). Clinton was regarded to be an adequate study and actually like the use of force a little too much himself.

The Chickenhawk argument stems forth as a credibility issue. Simple as this, if you tell people to potentially die while zealously overstepping the bounds of any previous U.S. President , you better damn well know what it is like to get shot at and have friends die next to you. Peacetime Naval Jet jocks like Rummy also fall into that statement as well, when they discount the advice of their veteran Army commanders.

BTW, didn't Bush's election team slander courageous War Hero Sen. John McCain, implying that his service in Vietnam made him prone to fits of anger? Just curious to see what you have to say about that.

By the way, I was a full-time English teacher for two years. You must really enjoy being wrong today.


Hmm – Afghanistan never attacked us either. The South never attacked the North either (they fired on a Fort in their own territory). Germany never attacked the U.S., neither did Italy.

The South illegally seized Federal Military and tresurey assets. They did not negotiate any partitioning agreement, and they were illegally abducting African tribesman and terroristically enslaving them. Therefore, they needed "Regime Change."

Germany DECLARED WAR ON THE U.S. December 15, 1941! Italy was aligned with Germany.

In fact, the Taliban leadership stood by Osama and implied that they condoned his terrorist actions against the U.S. therefore, harboring al-Qaida, the attack can be considered as having originated on their soil and they then became a legitimate military target of "Regime Change." BTW, the French and Germans are in Afghanistan, defending our freedom.;)

[Sgt Schultz]

Lincoln was in the Illinois Militia for a few weeks. He was in two different Companies one as a Captain. During the Black Hawk War he was a Private and had his horse stolen in Wisconsin (Michigan Territory) and had to walk back. He had less military experience than your average day Boy Scout.

I typed a lot but forget it - you are typical brainwashed left-wing lost cause blinded by hate and you just ignore facts that don't fit into your pseudo-reality. Then over and over you just make things up out of thin air having to do with my positions. Just look at your first response where you AGAIN ignored facts and wrote something you made up. You are hopeless.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Lincoln was in the Illinois Militia for a few weeks. He was in two different Companies one as a Captain. During the Black Hawk War he was a Private and had his horse stolen in Wisconsin (Michigan Territory) and had to walk back. He had less military experience than your average day Boy Scout.

I typed a lot but forget it - you are typical brainwashed left-wing lost cause blinded by hate and you just ignore facts that don't fit into your pseudo-reality. Then over and over you just make things up out of thin air having to do with my positions. Just look at your first response where you AGAIN ignored facts and wrote something you made up. You are hopeless.


BUHUHAWHAWHAWHAWWHAWAAAAA

[scorpioboy33]

I'm sad they died for sure. They were humans...but I'm sadder they were involved in a war where 250000 civilians were murdered...God sometimes the US sucks...we'll not all of it...just the half that voted that piece of garbage in

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz

I maintain that he, and others of his ilk, are celebrating any American setback in Iraq and THAT is EXACTLY why he posted it.






Again, who’s hyperbolic here? Can I get a ruling judge? Of course I want the U.S. to win the war – and you don’t? I know that most left-winger Bush haters DON’T want the U.S. to win.

I never said I wasn´t celebrating American setbacks in Iraq, and yes, I DON`T want the U.S. to win.

I´ll tell you why too!

That is apparently the only way to prevent U.S. administrations led by assholes like George Bush from starting wars at a whim and for selfish reasons. I´d rather a few thousand US servicemen died in Iraq than many thousand more Americans and others die in future "preemptive" wars!

Too hard for you to grasp, guess so!

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
I never said I wasn´t celebrating American setbacks in Iraq, and yes, I DON`T want the U.S. to win.

I´ll tell you why too!

That is apparently the only way to prevent U.S. administrations led by assholes like George Bush from starting wars at a whim and for selfish reasons. I´d rather a few thousand US servicemen died in Iraq than many thousand more Americans and others die in future "preemptive" wars!

Too hard for you to grasp, guess so!

:rolleyes: That's fucking pathetic. You want US soldiers to die so US soldiers in the future can live. You're a human piece of trash. :mad:

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
:rolleyes: That's fucking pathetic. You want US soldiers to die so US soldiers in the future can live. You're a human piece of trash. :mad: I´d prefer nobody died. But if some have to then those should that knew that risk was part of the profession they chose!

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
I never said I wasn´t celebrating American setbacks in Iraq, and yes, I DON`T want the U.S. to win.

I´ll tell you why too!

That is apparently the only way to prevent U.S. administrations led by assholes like George Bush from starting wars at a whim and for selfish reasons. I´d rather a few thousand US servicemen died in Iraq than many thousand more Americans and others die in future "preemptive" wars!

Too hard for you to grasp, guess so!

Moron.

So you'd prefer that Saddam Hussein was in power in Iraq. Wow, you are such a humanitarian, soooooo concerned for human life. I'm glad to see you are so concerened about madmen "starting wars at a whim and for selfish reasons".

[Mishar_McLeud]

I don't get the point about Congresmen's children being on that chopper. Do you think Nick it would result in emergency summit of the Congress to make Bush to stop the war? That wouldn't have happened.

[Mishar_McLeud]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
Moron.

So you'd prefer that Saddam Hussein was in power in Iraq. Wow, you are such a humanitarian, soooooo concerned for human life. I'm glad to see you are so concerened about madmen "starting wars at a whim and for selfish reasons".
Excuse me, that way US should wage a war against every second African country. The reason of invading Iraq (even the official one) was the Iraqi's threat to America and the rest of the world, not because of Saddam was such an evil bastard.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Mishar_McLeud
I don't get the point about Congresmen's children being on that chopper. Do you think Nick it would result in emergency summit of the Congress to make Bush to stop the war? That wouldn't have happened.

It was just a casual observation that was turned into a Federal Case. And I don't get fact that you actually think Sammy Hagar's music is something worth buying.;) :D

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Mishar_McLeud
Excuse me, that way US should wage a war against every second African country. The reason of invading Iraq (even the official one) was the Iraqi's threat to America and the rest of the world, not because of Saddam was such an evil bastard.

You have to excuse them Mishar, American Neo-Conservatives must grasp at straws to justify the fact they are killing our troops in Iraq since all rationales for the War have been proven false.

[Mishar_McLeud]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
It was just a casual observation that was turned into a Federal Case. And I don't get fact that you actually think Sammy Hagar's music is something worth buying.;) :D
Yep, that's why I've fooled his record label by downloading his stuff in mp3's :p :D

[Mishar_McLeud]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
You have to excuse them Mishar, American Neo-Conservatives must grasp at straws to justify the fact they are killing our troops in Iraq since all rationales for the War have been proven false.
Building democracy in the region is the point that makes the least sence from all. I just wonder, Bush's administration expected the things to go the same way as in Afganistan, or they considered the loss could go that far?

[Angel]

Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
you are typical brainwashed left-wing lost cause blinded by hate

Why do you feel "liberals" are blinded by hate? In my opinion, MOST people of a liberal nature are that way because of a profound love of mankind!

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Angel
Why do you feel "liberals" are blinded by hate? In my opinion, MOST people of a liberal nature are that way because of a profound love of mankind!

That would depend on which liberal cause you're referring to.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Mishar_McLeud
Yep, that's why I've fooled his record label by downloading his stuff in mp3's :p :D

Well that's okay then.

I may have done the same thing. But don't feel bad, Sammy ripped off Gary Glitter's "Rock and Roll" to make "Mas Tequila." (I think he got away from it since Gary Glitter has had legal troubles since he appears to be the heterosexual counterpart to Michael Jackson.)

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Mishar_McLeud
Building democracy in the region is the point that makes the least sence from all. I just wonder, Bush's administration expected the things to go the same way as in Afganistan, or they considered the loss could go that far?

Afghanistan was the clear inspiration and archetype for this War as they sold it. Basically, they ignored the fact that The Taliban had an extensive resistance organization opposing it (The Northern Alliance) that needed only fire support, small units of spies and commandos, and cheap Soviet era arms to march south.

In Iraq, we essentially sent our own troops to fight and are now effectively garrisoning the country.

[Angel]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
That would depend on which liberal cause you're referring to.

I'll just leave it that liberalism in Canada and liberalism in the US are two different things, then. ;)

[Nickdfresh]

Troops killed in crash came from across America

Thursday, January 27, 2005 Posted: 9:50 PM EST (0250 GMT)

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/01/27/helicopter.crash.ap/vert.house.ap.jpg
Petty Officer 3rd Class John D. House was a Navy medic on board the helicopter when it crashed.
Image:


HONOLULU, Hawaii (AP) -- Most of the troops lost in the U.S. military's deadliest single incident of the Iraq war were based in Hawaii, but they came from coast to coast, from Florida to New Hampshire, from Ohio to Oregon.

Some of the families of the 30 Marines and a Navy medic killed Wednesday when a helicopter crashed in a sandstorm shared their memories and their grief after military officials told them of the deaths. The Pentagon identified the sailor killed as Petty Officer 3rd Class John D. House, of Ventura, California, but said it would not publicly identify the Marines until all families were notified. So far, the families themselves have identified 12 of the Marines.

House was a 28-year-old who never got the chance to meet his baby boy, born Christmas Eve.

House had written letters home describing the camaraderie and responsibility he felt for the Marines in his unit, his parents told the Ventura County Star.

"In one of the letters he wrote, 'I know all of them ... even in the dark, by their mannerisms,"' Susan House of Simi Valley, California, read, choking back tears. "'I don't know how I am going to deal with losing any of them. It is my job to take care of them and keep them safe."'

The CH-53E Super Stallion went down in western Iraq while transporting troops for security operations in preparation of Sunday's elections. The military was investigating the cause of the crash and gave no indication there had been enemy fire.

Twenty-seven of the dead were based at Marine Corps Base Hawaii at Kaneohe Bay, according to Sen. Daniel Akaka of Hawaii. It was the single worst loss of Hawaii-based troops since the attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941.

The helicopter crew was from the 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing, based at Marine Corps Air Station Miramar in San Diego.

For Cpl. Matthew Smith, 24, military service had been a lifelong dream. As a child, he would talk about joining the Army to protect his family, said his mother, Colleen Parkin.

Parkin, of West Valley City, Utah, became convinced she had lost her son only after the Marines who came to her home to give the news recited his Social Security number.

"He died a hero and brave," said Parkin, choking back tears.

Ohio lost at least three Marines in the crash: Cpl. Richard Gilbert Jr., 28, of Dayton; Lance Cpl. Jonathan Edward Etterling, 22, of Wheelersburg; and Sgt. Michael Finke Jr., 28, of Wadsworth.

Etterling had just talked to his parents Saturday, telling them he was tired and had lost more than 15 pounds.

When Marines came to the family's house with the bad news, "I prayed, 'Let him be wounded, let him be wounded,"' his father, William Etterling, told the Portsmouth (Ohio) Daily Times. "My heart just fell."

Cpl. James Lee Moore's family heard of the 24-year-old Roseburg, Oregon, native's death Wednesday night, when several Marines came to their door, said his stepmother, Suzanne Moore.

"It still hasn't sunk in," she said. "We can't get past, 'We regret to inform you..."'

Hector Ramos, 20, of the Chicago suburb of Aurora, Illinois, joined the Marines soon after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, his mother said.

"He came home from school and he told me, 'I signed up. I need to do this. I always wanted to,"' Nancy Ramos told WLS-TV of Chicago on Thursday. "I am the proud mother of a Marine."

Others killed, according to their families, included Cpl. Sean Kelly, 23, of Pitman, New Jersey; Cpl. Timothy Gibson, 23, of Merrimack, New Hampshire; Lance Cpl. Rhonald Dain Rairdan of San Antonio; Nathan Moore of Champaign, Illinois; and Lance Cpl. Tony Hernandez, 22, of Canyon Lake, Texas.

Some families reacted to the news with anger, others with sad acceptance.

Nadine Finke, stepmother of Michael Finke, said she doesn't believe there is any justification for the war that claimed his life.

"I'm sure there are many other parents out there that don't think there is either," Finke, of Wadsworth, Ohio, told WKYC-TV of Cleveland.

The father of Spc. Gael Saintvil, 24, of Orlando, Florida, said he feared the worst as soon as he heard about the crash.

"It happened for a good cause, for the country. ... Don't like it, but what's happened has happened," Belga Saintvil told WESH-TV in Orlando.

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[Mishar_McLeud]

Damn that war :(