to hell with chris rock

[UNCLAX72]

what the hell is with this guy?
not only did he make a fool out of himself but he probably ruined his career for good. I think he made the plan backfire on hollywood when he sarcastically gave his personal shout-out to the troops. Fuck that sarcasm, america and our troops don't need it.
God bless america and its soldiers

[ELVIS]

I agree...

[academic punk]

So let me get this straight: you say to hell with someone b/c they made what you perceive to be a sarcastic shout-out in support of the troops, but Donald Rumsfeld is still cool in your book?

[Cathedral]

I don't like Chris Rock, but he didn't do anything that bugged me.
Comedians tend to cater to their crowds disposition and lets face it, he was in his element, and although some of his jokes didn't make me laugh, it was only humor.

He is against the war and Bush, but he didn't do anything different than any Liberal or Democrat does here or in Washington.

Him giving props to the troops at all was probably the one thing he did right, and i think i'll leave it up to the troops to decide how they felt about his comments.

But what i enjoyed a little was Sean Penn again sticking his nose in business that doesn't concern him by taking it upon himself to defend Jude Law.
It was a joke, Sean, say your lines and sit your butt down.

Hollywood actually needs their own political party so they can stop leaching of the Democrats.

And you have to admit the stab Rock took at Michael Moore was funny.
"I should have just done Super-Size Me, I did all the research"
It busted my gut for sure, no pun intended there.

[John Ashcroft]

You guys watched the Oscars???

Fags! :D

[Cathedral]

Yeah, I watched, and i ain't no fag, lol.

I watched it to see Foxx get his just props for Ray, and my kid was all about the animated stuff.

Basically i wanted to see if everyone would go off on a political rant while accepting their idols, lol.

[stringfelowhawk]

Comparing Bush to an employee of the Gap was pure genious! That gave me an abdominal charlie horse............

You ain't gotta like him but his "Bullets" skit in Bigger and Blacker is one of the funniest things I've ever heard and I'm a Richard Pryor fan.
Taking shots at people in the audience is just fucking ruthless. I absolutely loved it.

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by stringfelowhawk
Comparing Bush to an employee of the Gap was pure genious! That gave me an abdominal charlie horse............

You ain't gotta like him but his "Bullets" skit in Bigger and Blacker is one of the funniest things I've ever heard and I'm a Richard Pryor fan.
Taking shots at people in the audience is just fucking ruthless. I absolutely loved it.

Not only is the Bullets sketch funny, but it maketh perfect sense. Let Me put it this way...

If nails costeth $5000 each, ye would not be celebrating Easter at the end of next month.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by UNCLAX72
what the hell is with this guy?
not only did he make a fool out of himself but he probably ruined his career for good. I think he made the plan backfire on hollywood when he sarcastically gave his personal shout-out to the troops. Fuck that sarcasm, america and our troops don't need it.
God bless america and its soldiers

Waht the fuck are you talking about? He was great. What sarcasm? you have a specific quote or are you just being a pussy 'cause he made fun of Bush (not the troops)?

[twonabomber]

his career isn't ruined, you guys don't know shit.

if CB4 and Pootie Tang didn't fuck his career, that Oscar hosting gig sure as shit won't do it.

[hard rock]

I loved it when he hosted i think it was the grammys or american music awards a few years ago. It was during a time when the music industry was real shity with all these one hit wonders and stuff and he said something like

i see a lot of familiar faces in the crowd tonigth, hey theres my buddy puffy props to ya, theres snoop dogg what up man, there is bruce springsteen hey man that new album is killer.

i see a lot of new faces in the crowd to, hey enjoy the moment yall cuz you will never be here again. it was nice knowin ya

something like that i thought f@#kin right you tell those shit boy bands and teeny bopers how it is.

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by UNCLAX72
what the hell is with this guy?
not only did he make a fool out of himself but he probably ruined his career for good. I think he made the plan backfire on hollywood when he sarcastically gave his personal shout-out to the troops. Fuck that sarcasm, america and our troops don't need it.
God bless america and its soldiers So, according to you, freedom of speech and freedom of opinion are outdated!

[FORD]

Originally posted by UNCLAX72
what the hell is with this guy?
not only did he make a fool out of himself.....

Do I even need to write the punchline here? ;)

[Jesterstar]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
So, according to you, freedom of speech and freedom of opinion are outdated!

You odviously aren't familiar with the patriot act. You sir are a Terroist.

[Sgt Schultz]

Chris Rock never was funny so it's no suprise he wasn't at the Academy Awards.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Waht the fuck are you talking about? He was great. What sarcasm? you have a specific quote or are you just being a pussy 'cause he made fun of Bush (not the troops)?

No, he was not great. I was actually expecting him to be a little more provocative than he was. He was muzzled by the powers that be. I was expecting him to be better. I give him a B/B+

:gulp:

[DLR7884]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
You guys watched the Oscars???

Fags! :D

LOL.

DLR7884
That's what I was gonna say!

[Bob_R]

Chris Rock's bit about George Bush was hilarious and right on the money (pardon the pun). ;)

Sometimes the truth hurts. :)

[Wayne L.]

Chris Rock was nothing to begin with as a comedian anyway so hopefully he will fade slowly into obscurity after his overhyped Oscar performance.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Wayne L.
Chris Rock was nothing to begin with as a comedian anyway so hopefully he will fade slowly into obscurity after his overhyped Oscar performance.

As opposed to YOUR steller career.....:rolleyes:


wtf ever

[Wayne L.]

I could have done much better than him any day of the week without even trying Loungenazi.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Wayne L.
I could have done much better than him any day of the week without even trying Loungenazi.

How's the "lyricist" career going Wayne L(ikes men)?

[Wayne L.]

Better than yours my poor unfortunate scumnazi Nicky boy.

[DLR7884]

Originally posted by Wayne L.
Better than yours my poor unfortunate scumnazi Nicky boy.

Wayne....

DID YOU MOVE OUT OF YOUR MOTHER'S FUCKING HOUSE YET?

DLR7884
Answer the question, douchebag.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Wayne L.
Better than yours my poor unfortunate scumnazi Nicky boy.

I'm not a cool lyricist like you Wayne, so I really don't have a career in that field. Don't you work at a bottling plant?

[Wayne L.]

Have you moved out of your mother's house yet Nicky boy?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Wayne L.
Have you moved out of your mother's house yet Nicky boy?

Wayne, why are you copying other peoples' posts today? Are you that retarded, Wayne? I haven't lived at home since college. Have you ever been to a college course Wayne? Did you ever graduate resource room?

[Wayne L.]

Are you gay Nicky boy?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Wayne L.
Are you gay Nicky boy?

Wayne, you've already asked me that in another thread. I already answered. Either way it doesn't matter. Even if I were gay Wayne, I don't think I would be interested in you, sorry.

[Wayne L.]

I know you're gay & you know you're gay Nicky boy & you hate beautiful women with long legs & sexy feet like FNC newsbabe Laurie Dhue which is sad.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Wayne L.
I know you're gay & you know you're gay Nicky boy & you hate beautiful women with long legs & sexy feet like FNC newsbabe Laurie Dhue which is sad.

Wayne, you're just repeating yourself now. Did you run out of steam already you hick simpleton?

[CROWBAR]

wayne, you must first answer the question, before you, in turn, ask one! Those are the rules of engagement, don't forget! Never answer a question with a question wayne, remember that!

[Wayne L.]

You're the hick Nicky boy so stop getting uptight because you repeat yourself all the time.

[CROWBAR]

wayne







GOOD LORD






you a stupid white boy!!:fucku2:

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by CROWBAR
wayne, you must first answer the question, before you, in turn, ask one! Those are the rules of engagement, don't forget! Never answer a question with a question wayne, remember that!

Says who? Where in the sam hell on this site is that written down?

[LoungeMachine]

For the record.......

Wayne L. belongs to the Neocons in here. He/she is one of your's.

Aint that a bitch?

[Cathedral]

I don't claim him, and wouldn't even pet him if he were cute and cuddly.
He would be a great weapon though, he'd single handedly disarm the enemy while they laughed their tails off reading his sentences.

There should be a bomb named WayneL.

[twonabomber]

Originally posted by Cathedral

There should be a bomb named WayneL.

it would be a dumb bomb.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Cathedral
I don't claim him, and wouldn't even pet him if he were cute and cuddly.
He would be a great weapon though, he'd single handedly disarm the enemy while they laughed their tails off reading his sentences.

There should be a bomb named WayneL.

A defective dumb bomb!

[Cathedral]

Yeah, you guys are right. It would just blow up prematurely at the first sign of legs and feet.

FOCUS, WAYNE, FOCUS!

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Like many of the black American comedians of that style, his humour is Black folk Vs White folk, and the black guy always pulls through whilst the white guy fails. That is just racism, but because he is black, nobody says anything. People forget that racism works both ways. If a white guy got up and told a story where a white guy pulls through and a black guy fails, he would get slated.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
Like many of the black American comedians of that style, his humour is Black folk Vs White folk, and the black guy always pulls through whilst the white guy fails. That is just racism, but because he is black, nobody says anything. People forget that racism works both ways. If a white guy got up and told a story where a white guy pulls through and a black guy fails, he would get slated.

Not really true. You should hear some of Chris Rock's bits on Black people, such as his why would you expect credit for doing something you're fuck supposed to do routine?!

Ex., "I take CARE of MY kids! Well you're fucking SUPPOSED to take care of your kids! You wanna' malt liquor or something?"

[diamondD]

Actually he asked if they wanted a cookie. You must have heard the Howard Dean version. :D

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by diamondD
Actually he asked if they wanted a cookie. You must have heard the Howard Dean version. :D

Perhaps, or I have MALT LIQUOR on the brain!
http://www.falstaffbrewing.com/boxhead.jpg

I actually used to drink that shit with black dudes in the Army.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Not really true. You should hear some of Chris Rock's bits on Black people, such as his why would you expect credit for doing something you're fuck supposed to do routine?!

Ex., "I take CARE of MY kids! Well you're fucking SUPPOSED to take care of your kids! You wanna' malt liquor or something?"

And yet it still isn't even slightly funny.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
And yet it still isn't even slightly funny.

I'm not funny, but Rock is.

No Sex in the Champagne Room (http://www.meandmyshadow.net/tunes/Chris%20Rock%20-%20No%20Sex.mp3)

Rock ON WAR & POLITICS (http://www.indybay.org/uploads/04_-_war_and_politics.mp3). Amen Mr. Rock! TRUE DAT!!!

TOO MUCH FOOD IN AMERICA! (http://www.deviance.org/blog/archives/chrisrock_food.mp3)

[Shaun Ponsonby]

You want a comedian who is actually funny? Billy Connolly.

"I have no problem with fat people-be fat, I don't give a shit. Just don't tell me you're big-boned. I mean, you're arse bone is a hell of a size. Jesus, look at your belly-bone...I went out with a fat girl once. I remember making love with her. Jesus. I had to be careful that I didn't burn my arse on the light bulb. It was so fucking high up. But, I made the mistake of my life, we were at a high moment of pleasure, and I made a joke. I said, 'Ooh, I can see my house from here'. It's not what she wanted to hear."

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
You want a comedian who is actually funny? Billy Connolly.

"I have no problem with fat people-be fat, I don't give a shit. Just don't tell me you're big-boned. I mean, you're arse bone is a hell of a size. Jesus, look at your belly-bone...I went out with a fat girl once. I remember making love with her. Jesus. I had to be careful that I didn't burn my arse on the light bulb. It was so fucking high up. But, I made the mistake of my life, we were at a high moment of pleasure, and I made a joke. I said, 'Ooh, I can see my house from here'. It's not what she wanted to hear."

Connolly IS funny and a decent actor to boot. But so is Chris Rock. George Carlin is also a personal favorite.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

"People say, the problem with the world is that there is too many people and not enough food...Cannibalism could be the answer. I'm not saying it is the answer, but, think about it...If we all ate one person each, the problem would be solved over night. Am I right or am I wrong? Then, we'll eat the unemployed, another problem solved. Then, we'll eat everyone in jail, another problem solved. Then, we'll eat the homeless, and we'll say, "Oh, fuck, they could have lived in the jail."

The great thing about Billy Connolly is that he has no script. He just gets up there and speaks for as long as he wants. I know a lot of people who saw him last time he toured, each of them at different venues, each of tyhem saw a different show. And this was only 2 or 3 days apart. Sadly, I missed him.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Connolly IS funny and a decent actor to boot. But so is Chris Rock.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Chris Rock. I just don't find him funny. I did see a film that he wrote, something about politics, but I fell asleep. I thought he was a shit actor/director as well.

[diamondD]

Chris Rock's HBO specials and his show are truly funny. He definitely makes a lot of fun of blacks as well. His last stand up on HBO was a little less funny, but still good. I never really liked him on Saturday Night Live or anything else until Bring the Pain came on.

[Nickdfresh]

Yes, but even Connolly has been influenced. (I think Dennis Miller once used the following as a reference on Monday Night Football.)

A Modest Proposal


For Preventing The Children of Poor People in Ireland
From Being Aburden to Their Parents or Country, and
For Making Them Beneficial to The Public


By Jonathan Swift (1729)


It is a melancholy object to those who walk through this great town or travel in the country, when they see the streets, the roads, and cabin doors, crowded with beggars of the female sex, followed by three, four, or six children, all in rags and importuning every passenger for an alms. These mothers, instead of being able to work for their honest livelihood, are forced to employ all their time in strolling to beg sustenance for their helpless infants: who as they grow up either turn thieves for want of work, or leave their dear native country to fight for the Pretender in Spain, or sell themselves to the Barbadoes.

I think it is agreed by all parties that this prodigious number of children in the arms, or on the backs, or at the heels of their mothers, and frequently of their fathers, is in the present deplorable state of the kingdom a very great additional grievance; and, therefore, whoever could find out a fair, cheap, and easy method of making these children sound, useful members of the commonwealth, would deserve so well of the public as to have his statue set up for a preserver of the nation.

But my intention is very far from being confined to provide only for the children of professed beggars; it is of a much greater extent, and shall take in the whole number of infants at a certain age who are born of parents in effect as little able to support them as those who demand our charity in the streets.

”I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled ...”

As to my own part, having turned my thoughts for many years upon this important subject, and maturely weighed the several schemes of other projectors, I have always found them grossly mistaken in the computation. It is true, a child just dropped from its dam may be supported by her milk for a solar year, with little other nourishment; at most not above the value of 2s., which the mother may certainly get, or the value in scraps, by her lawful occupation of begging; and it is exactly at one year old that I propose to provide for them in such a manner as instead of being a charge upon their parents or the parish, or wanting food and raiment for the rest of their lives, they shall on the contrary contribute to the feeding, and partly to the clothing, of many thousands.

There is likewise another great advantage in my scheme, that it will prevent those voluntary abortions, and that horrid practice of women murdering their bastard children, alas! too frequent among us! sacrificing the poor innocent babes I doubt more to avoid the expense than the shame, which would move tears and pity in the most savage and inhuman breast.

The number of souls in this kingdom being usually reckoned one million and a half, of these I calculate there may be about two hundred thousand couple whose wives are breeders; from which number I subtract thirty thousand couples who are able to maintain their own children, although I apprehend there cannot be so many, under the present distresses of the kingdom; but this being granted, there will remain an hundred and seventy thousand breeders. I again subtract fifty thousand for those women who miscarry, or whose children die by accident or disease within the year. There only remains one hundred and twenty thousand children of poor parents annually born. The question therefore is, how this number shall be reared and provided for, which, as I have already said, under the present situation of affairs, is utterly impossible by all the methods hitherto proposed. For we can neither employ them in handicraft or agriculture; we neither build houses (I mean in the country) nor cultivate land: they can very seldom pick up a livelihood by stealing, till they arrive at six years old, except where they are of towardly parts, although I confess they learn the rudiments much earlier, during which time, they can however be properly looked upon only as probationers, as I have been informed by a principal gentleman in the county of Cavan, who protested to me that he never knew above one or two instances under the age of six, even in a part of the kingdom so renowned for the quickest proficiency in that art.

I am assured by our merchants, that a boy or a girl before twelve years old is no salable commodity; and even when they come to this age they will not yield above three pounds, or three pounds and half-a-crown at most on the exchange; which cannot turn to account either to the parents or kingdom, the charge of nutriment and rags having been at least four times that value.

I shall now therefore humbly propose my own thoughts, which I hope will not be liable to the least objection.

I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee or a ragout.

I do therefore humbly offer it to public consideration that of the hundred and twenty thousand children already computed, twenty thousand may be reserved for breed, whereof only one-fourth part to be males; which is more than we allow to sheep, black cattle or swine; and my reason is, that these children are seldom the fruits of marriage, a circumstance not much regarded by our savages, therefore one male will be sufficient to serve four females. That the remaining hundred thousand may, at a year old, be offered in the sale to the persons of quality and fortune through the kingdom; always advising the mother to let them suck plentifully in the last month, so as to render them plump and fat for a good table. A child will make two dishes at an entertainment for friends; and when the family dines alone, the fore or hind quarter will make a reasonable dish, and seasoned with a little pepper or salt will be very good boiled on the fourth day, especially in winter.

I have reckoned upon a medium that a child just born will weigh 12 pounds, and in a solar year, if tolerably nursed, increaseth to 28 pounds.

I grant this food will be somewhat dear, and therefore very proper for landlords, who, as they have already devoured most of the parents, seem to have the best title to the children.

Infant's flesh will be in season throughout the year, but more plentiful in March, and a little before and after; for we are told by a grave author, an eminent French physician, that fish being a prolific diet, there are more children born in Roman Catholic countries about nine months after Lent than at any other season; therefore, reckoning a year after Lent, the markets will be more glutted than usual, because the number of popish infants is at least three to one in this kingdom: and therefore it will have one other collateral advantage, by lessening the number of papists among us.

I have already computed the charge of nursing a beggar's child (in which list I reckon all cottagers, laborers, and four-fifths of the farmers) to be about two shillings per annum, rags included; and I believe no gentleman would repine to give ten shillings for the carcass of a good fat child, which, as I have said, will make four dishes of excellent nutritive meat, when he hath only some particular friend or his own family to dine with him. Thus the squire will learn to be a good landlord, and grow popular among his tenants; the mother will have eight shillings net profit, and be fit for work till she produces another child.

Those who are more thrifty (as I must confess the times require) may flay the carcass; the skin of which artificially dressed will make admirable gloves for ladies, and summer boots for fine gentlemen.

As to our city of Dublin, shambles may be appointed for this purpose in the most convenient parts of it, and butchers we may be assured will not be wanting; although I rather recommend buying the children alive, and dressing them hot from the knife, as we do roasting pigs.

A very worthy person, a true lover of his country, and whose virtues I highly esteem, was lately pleased in discoursing on this matter to offer a refinement upon my scheme. He said that many gentlemen of this kingdom, having of late destroyed their deer, he conceived that the want of venison might be well supplied by the bodies of young lads and maidens, not exceeding fourteen years of age nor under twelve; so great a number of both sexes in every country being now ready to starve for want of work and service; and these to be disposed of by their parents, if alive, or otherwise by their nearest relations. But with due deference to so excellent a friend and so deserving a patriot, I cannot be altogether in his sentiments; for as to the males, my American acquaintance assured me, from frequent experience, that their flesh was generally tough and lean, like that of our schoolboys by continual exercise, and their taste disagreeable; and to fatten them would not answer the charge. Then as to the females, it would, I think, with humble submission be a loss to the public, because they soon would become breeders themselves; and besides, it is not improbable that some scrupulous people might be apt to censure such a practice (although indeed very unjustly), as a little bordering upon cruelty; which, I confess, hath always been with me the strongest objection against any project, however so well intended.

But in order to justify my friend, he confessed that this expedient was put into his head by the famous Psalmanazar, a native of the island Formosa, who came from thence to London above twenty years ago, and in conversation told my friend, that in his country when any young person happened to be put to death, the executioner sold the carcass to persons of quality as a prime dainty; and that in his time the body of a plump girl of fifteen, who was crucified for an attempt to poison the emperor, was sold to his imperial majesty's prime minister of state, and other great mandarins of the court, in joints from the gibbet, at four hundred crowns. Neither indeed can I deny, that if the same use were made of several plump young girls in this town, who without one single groat to their fortunes cannot stir abroad without a chair, and appear at playhouse and assemblies in foreign fineries which they never will pay for, the kingdom would not be the worse.

Some persons of a desponding spirit are in great concern about that vast number of poor people, who are aged, diseased, or maimed, and I have been desired to employ my thoughts what course may be taken to ease the nation of so grievous an encumbrance. But I am not in the least pain upon that matter, because it is very well known that they are every day dying and rotting by cold and famine, and filth and vermin, as fast as can be reasonably expected. And as to the young laborers, they are now in as hopeful a condition; they cannot get work, and consequently pine away for want of nourishment, to a degree that if at any time they are accidentally hired to common labor, they have not strength to perform it; and thus the country and themselves are happily delivered from the evils to come.

I have too long digressed, and therefore shall return to my subject. I think the advantages by the proposal which I have made are obvious and many, as well as of the highest importance.

For first, as I have already observed, it would greatly lessen the number of papists, with whom we are yearly overrun, being the principal breeders of the nation as well as our most dangerous enemies; and who stay at home on purpose with a design to deliver the kingdom to the Pretender, hoping to take their advantage by the absence of so many good protestants, who have chosen rather to leave their country than stay at home and pay tithes against their conscience to an episcopal curate.

Secondly, The poorer tenants will have something valuable of their own, which by law may be made liable to distress and help to pay their landlord's rent, their corn and cattle being already seized, and money a thing unknown.

Thirdly, Whereas the maintenance of an hundred thousand children, from two years old and upward, cannot be computed at less than ten shillings a-piece per annum, the nation's stock will be thereby increased fifty thousand pounds per annum, beside the profit of a new dish introduced to the tables of all gentlemen of fortune in the kingdom who have any refinement in taste. And the money will circulate among ourselves, the goods being entirely of our own growth and manufacture.

Fourthly, The constant breeders, beside the gain of eight shillings sterling per annum by the sale of their children, will be rid of the charge of maintaining them after the first year.

Fifthly, This food would likewise bring great custom to taverns; where the vintners will certainly be so prudent as to procure the best receipts for dressing it to perfection, and consequently have their houses frequented by all the fine gentlemen, who justly value themselves upon their knowledge in good eating: and a skilful cook, who understands how to oblige his guests, will contrive to make it as expensive as they please.

Sixthly, This would be a great inducement to marriage, which all wise nations have either encouraged by rewards or enforced by laws and penalties. It would increase the care and tenderness of mothers toward their children, when they were sure of a settlement for life to the poor babes, provided in some sort by the public, to their annual profit instead of expense. We should see an honest emulation among the married women, which of them could bring the fattest child to the market. Men would become as fond of their wives during the time of their pregnancy as they are now of their mares in foal, their cows in calf, their sows when they are ready to farrow; nor offer to beat or kick them (as is too frequent a practice) for fear of a miscarriage.

Many other advantages might be enumerated. For instance, the addition of some thousand carcasses in our exportation of barreled beef, the propagation of swine's flesh, and improvement in the art of making good bacon, so much wanted among us by the great destruction of pigs, too frequent at our tables; which are no way comparable in taste or magnificence to a well-grown, fat, yearling child, which roasted whole will make a considerable figure at a lord mayor's feast or any other public entertainment. But this and many others I omit, being studious of brevity.

Supposing that one thousand families in this city, would be constant customers for infants flesh, besides others who might have it at merry meetings, particularly at weddings and christenings, I compute that Dublin would take off annually about twenty thousand carcasses; and the rest of the kingdom (where probably they will be sold somewhat cheaper) the remaining eighty thousand.

I can think of no one objection, that will possibly be raised against this proposal, unless it should be urged, that the number of people will be thereby much lessened in the kingdom. This I freely own, and 'twas indeed one principal design in offering it to the world. I desire the reader will observe, that I calculate my remedy for this one individual Kingdom of Ireland, and for no other that ever was, is, or, I think, ever can be upon Earth. Therefore let no man talk to me of other expedients: Of taxing our absentees at five shillings a pound: Of using neither cloaths, nor houshold furniture, except what is of our own growth and manufacture: Of utterly rejecting the materials and instruments that promote foreign luxury: Of curing the expensiveness of pride, vanity, idleness, and gaming in our women: Of introducing a vein of parsimony, prudence and temperance: Of learning to love our country, wherein we differ even from Laplanders, and the inhabitants of Topinamboo: Of quitting our animosities and factions, nor acting any longer like the Jews, who were murdering one another at the very moment their city was taken: Of being a little cautious not to sell our country and consciences for nothing: Of teaching landlords to have at least one degree of mercy towards their tenants. Lastly, of putting a spirit of honesty, industry, and skill into our shop-keepers, who, if a resolution could now be taken to buy only our native goods, would immediately unite to cheat and exact upon us in the price, the measure, and the goodness, nor could ever yet be brought to make one fair proposal of just dealing, though often and earnestly invited to it.

Therefore I repeat, let no man talk to me of these and the like expedients, 'till he hath at least some glympse of hope, that there will ever be some hearty and sincere attempt to put them into practice.

But, as to my self, having been wearied out for many years with offering vain, idle, visionary thoughts, and at length utterly despairing of success, I fortunately fell upon this proposal, which, as it is wholly new, so it hath something solid and real, of no expence and little trouble, full in our own power, and whereby we can incur no danger in disobliging England. For this kind of commodity will not bear exportation, and flesh being of too tender a consistence, to admit a long continuance in salt, although perhaps I could name a country, which would be glad to eat up our whole nation without it.

After all, I am not so violently bent upon my own opinion as to reject any offer proposed by wise men, which shall be found equally innocent, cheap, easy, and effectual. But before something of that kind shall be advanced in contradiction to my scheme, and offering a better, I desire the author or authors will be pleased maturely to consider two points. First, as things now stand, how they will be able to find food and raiment for an hundred thousand useless mouths and backs. And secondly, there being a round million of creatures in human figure throughout this kingdom, whose whole subsistence put into a common stock would leave them in debt two millions of pounds sterling, adding those who are beggars by profession to the bulk of farmers, cottagers, and laborers, with their wives and children who are beggars in effect: I desire those politicians who dislike my overture, and may perhaps be so bold as to attempt an answer, that they will first ask the parents of these mortals, whether they would not at this day think it a great happiness to have been sold for food, at a year old in the manner I prescribe, and thereby have avoided such a perpetual scene of misfortunes as they have since gone through by the oppression of landlords, the impossibility of paying rent without money or trade, the want of common sustenance, with neither house nor clothes to cover them from the inclemencies of the weather, and the most inevitable prospect of entailing the like or greater miseries upon their breed for ever.

I profess, in the sincerity of my heart, that I have not the least personal interest in endeavoring to promote this necessary work, having no other motive than the public good of my country, by advancing our trade, providing for infants, relieving the poor, and giving some pleasure to the rich. I have no children by which I can propose to get a single penny; the youngest being nine years old, and my wife past child-bearing.

The End

Note: Jonathan Swift (1667-1745), author and satirist, famous for Gulliver's Travels (1726) and A Modest Proposal (1729). This proposal, where he suggests that the Irish eat their own children, is one of his most drastic pieces. He devoted much of his writing to the struggle for Ireland against the English hegemony.

[twonabomber]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
We'll have to agree to disagree on Chris Rock.

but you're from over there. just like i don't think any of the limey comics are funny, 'cause i'm from over here, and it doesn't translate well.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

I don't unserstand what you mean by limey comics.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Yes, but even Connolly has been influenced. (I think Dennis Miller once used the following as a reference on Monday Night Football.)

A Modest Proposal


For Preventing The Children of Poor People in Ireland
From Being Aburden to Their Parents or Country, and
For Making Them Beneficial to The Public


By Jonathan Swift (1729)


It is a melancholy object to those who walk through this great town or travel in the country, when they see the streets, the roads, and cabin doors, crowded with beggars of the female sex, followed by three, four, or six children, all in rags and importuning every passenger for an alms. These mothers, instead of being able to work for their honest livelihood, are forced to employ all their time in strolling to beg sustenance for their helpless infants: who as they grow up either turn thieves for want of work, or leave their dear native country to fight for the Pretender in Spain, or sell themselves to the Barbadoes.

I think it is agreed by all parties that this prodigious number of children in the arms, or on the backs, or at the heels of their mothers, and frequently of their fathers, is in the present deplorable state of the kingdom a very great additional grievance; and, therefore, whoever could find out a fair, cheap, and easy method of making these children sound, useful members of the commonwealth, would deserve so well of the public as to have his statue set up for a preserver of the nation.

But my intention is very far from being confined to provide only for the children of professed beggars; it is of a much greater extent, and shall take in the whole number of infants at a certain age who are born of parents in effect as little able to support them as those who demand our charity in the streets.

”I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled ...”

As to my own part, having turned my thoughts for many years upon this important subject, and maturely weighed the several schemes of other projectors, I have always found them grossly mistaken in the computation. It is true, a child just dropped from its dam may be supported by her milk for a solar year, with little other nourishment; at most not above the value of 2s., which the mother may certainly get, or the value in scraps, by her lawful occupation of begging; and it is exactly at one year old that I propose to provide for them in such a manner as instead of being a charge upon their parents or the parish, or wanting food and raiment for the rest of their lives, they shall on the contrary contribute to the feeding, and partly to the clothing, of many thousands.

There is likewise another great advantage in my scheme, that it will prevent those voluntary abortions, and that horrid practice of women murdering their bastard children, alas! too frequent among us! sacrificing the poor innocent babes I doubt more to avoid the expense than the shame, which would move tears and pity in the most savage and inhuman breast.

The number of souls in this kingdom being usually reckoned one million and a half, of these I calculate there may be about two hundred thousand couple whose wives are breeders; from which number I subtract thirty thousand couples who are able to maintain their own children, although I apprehend there cannot be so many, under the present distresses of the kingdom; but this being granted, there will remain an hundred and seventy thousand breeders. I again subtract fifty thousand for those women who miscarry, or whose children die by accident or disease within the year. There only remains one hundred and twenty thousand children of poor parents annually born. The question therefore is, how this number shall be reared and provided for, which, as I have already said, under the present situation of affairs, is utterly impossible by all the methods hitherto proposed. For we can neither employ them in handicraft or agriculture; we neither build houses (I mean in the country) nor cultivate land: they can very seldom pick up a livelihood by stealing, till they arrive at six years old, except where they are of towardly parts, although I confess they learn the rudiments much earlier, during which time, they can however be properly looked upon only as probationers, as I have been informed by a principal gentleman in the county of Cavan, who protested to me that he never knew above one or two instances under the age of six, even in a part of the kingdom so renowned for the quickest proficiency in that art.

I am assured by our merchants, that a boy or a girl before twelve years old is no salable commodity; and even when they come to this age they will not yield above three pounds, or three pounds and half-a-crown at most on the exchange; which cannot turn to account either to the parents or kingdom, the charge of nutriment and rags having been at least four times that value.

I shall now therefore humbly propose my own thoughts, which I hope will not be liable to the least objection.

I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee or a ragout.

I do therefore humbly offer it to public consideration that of the hundred and twenty thousand children already computed, twenty thousand may be reserved for breed, whereof only one-fourth part to be males; which is more than we allow to sheep, black cattle or swine; and my reason is, that these children are seldom the fruits of marriage, a circumstance not much regarded by our savages, therefore one male will be sufficient to serve four females. That the remaining hundred thousand may, at a year old, be offered in the sale to the persons of quality and fortune through the kingdom; always advising the mother to let them suck plentifully in the last month, so as to render them plump and fat for a good table. A child will make two dishes at an entertainment for friends; and when the family dines alone, the fore or hind quarter will make a reasonable dish, and seasoned with a little pepper or salt will be very good boiled on the fourth day, especially in winter.

I have reckoned upon a medium that a child just born will weigh 12 pounds, and in a solar year, if tolerably nursed, increaseth to 28 pounds.

I grant this food will be somewhat dear, and therefore very proper for landlords, who, as they have already devoured most of the parents, seem to have the best title to the children.

Infant's flesh will be in season throughout the year, but more plentiful in March, and a little before and after; for we are told by a grave author, an eminent French physician, that fish being a prolific diet, there are more children born in Roman Catholic countries about nine months after Lent than at any other season; therefore, reckoning a year after Lent, the markets will be more glutted than usual, because the number of popish infants is at least three to one in this kingdom: and therefore it will have one other collateral advantage, by lessening the number of papists among us.

I have already computed the charge of nursing a beggar's child (in which list I reckon all cottagers, laborers, and four-fifths of the farmers) to be about two shillings per annum, rags included; and I believe no gentleman would repine to give ten shillings for the carcass of a good fat child, which, as I have said, will make four dishes of excellent nutritive meat, when he hath only some particular friend or his own family to dine with him. Thus the squire will learn to be a good landlord, and grow popular among his tenants; the mother will have eight shillings net profit, and be fit for work till she produces another child.

Those who are more thrifty (as I must confess the times require) may flay the carcass; the skin of which artificially dressed will make admirable gloves for ladies, and summer boots for fine gentlemen.

As to our city of Dublin, shambles may be appointed for this purpose in the most convenient parts of it, and butchers we may be assured will not be wanting; although I rather recommend buying the children alive, and dressing them hot from the knife, as we do roasting pigs.

A very worthy person, a true lover of his country, and whose virtues I highly esteem, was lately pleased in discoursing on this matter to offer a refinement upon my scheme. He said that many gentlemen of this kingdom, having of late destroyed their deer, he conceived that the want of venison might be well supplied by the bodies of young lads and maidens, not exceeding fourteen years of age nor under twelve; so great a number of both sexes in every country being now ready to starve for want of work and service; and these to be disposed of by their parents, if alive, or otherwise by their nearest relations. But with due deference to so excellent a friend and so deserving a patriot, I cannot be altogether in his sentiments; for as to the males, my American acquaintance assured me, from frequent experience, that their flesh was generally tough and lean, like that of our schoolboys by continual exercise, and their taste disagreeable; and to fatten them would not answer the charge. Then as to the females, it would, I think, with humble submission be a loss to the public, because they soon would become breeders themselves; and besides, it is not improbable that some scrupulous people might be apt to censure such a practice (although indeed very unjustly), as a little bordering upon cruelty; which, I confess, hath always been with me the strongest objection against any project, however so well intended.

But in order to justify my friend, he confessed that this expedient was put into his head by the famous Psalmanazar, a native of the island Formosa, who came from thence to London above twenty years ago, and in conversation told my friend, that in his country when any young person happened to be put to death, the executioner sold the carcass to persons of quality as a prime dainty; and that in his time the body of a plump girl of fifteen, who was crucified for an attempt to poison the emperor, was sold to his imperial majesty's prime minister of state, and other great mandarins of the court, in joints from the gibbet, at four hundred crowns. Neither indeed can I deny, that if the same use were made of several plump young girls in this town, who without one single groat to their fortunes cannot stir abroad without a chair, and appear at playhouse and assemblies in foreign fineries which they never will pay for, the kingdom would not be the worse.

Some persons of a desponding spirit are in great concern about that vast number of poor people, who are aged, diseased, or maimed, and I have been desired to employ my thoughts what course may be taken to ease the nation of so grievous an encumbrance. But I am not in the least pain upon that matter, because it is very well known that they are every day dying and rotting by cold and famine, and filth and vermin, as fast as can be reasonably expected. And as to the young laborers, they are now in as hopeful a condition; they cannot get work, and consequently pine away for want of nourishment, to a degree that if at any time they are accidentally hired to common labor, they have not strength to perform it; and thus the country and themselves are happily delivered from the evils to come.

I have too long digressed, and therefore shall return to my subject. I think the advantages by the proposal which I have made are obvious and many, as well as of the highest importance.

For first, as I have already observed, it would greatly lessen the number of papists, with whom we are yearly overrun, being the principal breeders of the nation as well as our most dangerous enemies; and who stay at home on purpose with a design to deliver the kingdom to the Pretender, hoping to take their advantage by the absence of so many good protestants, who have chosen rather to leave their country than stay at home and pay tithes against their conscience to an episcopal curate.

Secondly, The poorer tenants will have something valuable of their own, which by law may be made liable to distress and help to pay their landlord's rent, their corn and cattle being already seized, and money a thing unknown.

Thirdly, Whereas the maintenance of an hundred thousand children, from two years old and upward, cannot be computed at less than ten shillings a-piece per annum, the nation's stock will be thereby increased fifty thousand pounds per annum, beside the profit of a new dish introduced to the tables of all gentlemen of fortune in the kingdom who have any refinement in taste. And the money will circulate among ourselves, the goods being entirely of our own growth and manufacture.

Fourthly, The constant breeders, beside the gain of eight shillings sterling per annum by the sale of their children, will be rid of the charge of maintaining them after the first year.

Fifthly, This food would likewise bring great custom to taverns; where the vintners will certainly be so prudent as to procure the best receipts for dressing it to perfection, and consequently have their houses frequented by all the fine gentlemen, who justly value themselves upon their knowledge in good eating: and a skilful cook, who understands how to oblige his guests, will contrive to make it as expensive as they please.

Sixthly, This would be a great inducement to marriage, which all wise nations have either encouraged by rewards or enforced by laws and penalties. It would increase the care and tenderness of mothers toward their children, when they were sure of a settlement for life to the poor babes, provided in some sort by the public, to their annual profit instead of expense. We should see an honest emulation among the married women, which of them could bring the fattest child to the market. Men would become as fond of their wives during the time of their pregnancy as they are now of their mares in foal, their cows in calf, their sows when they are ready to farrow; nor offer to beat or kick them (as is too frequent a practice) for fear of a miscarriage.

Many other advantages might be enumerated. For instance, the addition of some thousand carcasses in our exportation of barreled beef, the propagation of swine's flesh, and improvement in the art of making good bacon, so much wanted among us by the great destruction of pigs, too frequent at our tables; which are no way comparable in taste or magnificence to a well-grown, fat, yearling child, which roasted whole will make a considerable figure at a lord mayor's feast or any other public entertainment. But this and many others I omit, being studious of brevity.

Supposing that one thousand families in this city, would be constant customers for infants flesh, besides others who might have it at merry meetings, particularly at weddings and christenings, I compute that Dublin would take off annually about twenty thousand carcasses; and the rest of the kingdom (where probably they will be sold somewhat cheaper) the remaining eighty thousand.

I can think of no one objection, that will possibly be raised against this proposal, unless it should be urged, that the number of people will be thereby much lessened in the kingdom. This I freely own, and 'twas indeed one principal design in offering it to the world. I desire the reader will observe, that I calculate my remedy for this one individual Kingdom of Ireland, and for no other that ever was, is, or, I think, ever can be upon Earth. Therefore let no man talk to me of other expedients: Of taxing our absentees at five shillings a pound: Of using neither cloaths, nor houshold furniture, except what is of our own growth and manufacture: Of utterly rejecting the materials and instruments that promote foreign luxury: Of curing the expensiveness of pride, vanity, idleness, and gaming in our women: Of introducing a vein of parsimony, prudence and temperance: Of learning to love our country, wherein we differ even from Laplanders, and the inhabitants of Topinamboo: Of quitting our animosities and factions, nor acting any longer like the Jews, who were murdering one another at the very moment their city was taken: Of being a little cautious not to sell our country and consciences for nothing: Of teaching landlords to have at least one degree of mercy towards their tenants. Lastly, of putting a spirit of honesty, industry, and skill into our shop-keepers, who, if a resolution could now be taken to buy only our native goods, would immediately unite to cheat and exact upon us in the price, the measure, and the goodness, nor could ever yet be brought to make one fair proposal of just dealing, though often and earnestly invited to it.

Therefore I repeat, let no man talk to me of these and the like expedients, 'till he hath at least some glympse of hope, that there will ever be some hearty and sincere attempt to put them into practice.

But, as to my self, having been wearied out for many years with offering vain, idle, visionary thoughts, and at length utterly despairing of success, I fortunately fell upon this proposal, which, as it is wholly new, so it hath something solid and real, of no expence and little trouble, full in our own power, and whereby we can incur no danger in disobliging England. For this kind of commodity will not bear exportation, and flesh being of too tender a consistence, to admit a long continuance in salt, although perhaps I could name a country, which would be glad to eat up our whole nation without it.

After all, I am not so violently bent upon my own opinion as to reject any offer proposed by wise men, which shall be found equally innocent, cheap, easy, and effectual. But before something of that kind shall be advanced in contradiction to my scheme, and offering a better, I desire the author or authors will be pleased maturely to consider two points. First, as things now stand, how they will be able to find food and raiment for an hundred thousand useless mouths and backs. And secondly, there being a round million of creatures in human figure throughout this kingdom, whose whole subsistence put into a common stock would leave them in debt two millions of pounds sterling, adding those who are beggars by profession to the bulk of farmers, cottagers, and laborers, with their wives and children who are beggars in effect: I desire those politicians who dislike my overture, and may perhaps be so bold as to attempt an answer, that they will first ask the parents of these mortals, whether they would not at this day think it a great happiness to have been sold for food, at a year old in the manner I prescribe, and thereby have avoided such a perpetual scene of misfortunes as they have since gone through by the oppression of landlords, the impossibility of paying rent without money or trade, the want of common sustenance, with neither house nor clothes to cover them from the inclemencies of the weather, and the most inevitable prospect of entailing the like or greater miseries upon their breed for ever.

I profess, in the sincerity of my heart, that I have not the least personal interest in endeavoring to promote this necessary work, having no other motive than the public good of my country, by advancing our trade, providing for infants, relieving the poor, and giving some pleasure to the rich. I have no children by which I can propose to get a single penny; the youngest being nine years old, and my wife past child-bearing.

The End

Note: Jonathan Swift (1667-1745), author and satirist, famous for Gulliver's Travels (1726) and A Modest Proposal (1729). This proposal, where he suggests that the Irish eat their own children, is one of his most drastic pieces. He devoted much of his writing to the struggle for Ireland against the English hegemony.



Do you really expect me to read all this?

And, anyway, EVERYONE has been influenced.

[twonabomber]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
I don't unserstand what you mean by limey comics.

limeys. Brits. people who reside in the UK.

better?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
I don't unserstand what you mean by limey comics.

"Limey" is American slang for the British. It comes from the practice of British sailors, who ate limes to prevent scurvy. Why it has evolved into this term I have no idea.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Ah, I understand.

(We have a slang for Americans as well, but I don't want to say it, because you'll want to punch every Brit in the face).


I just think that British humour is generally more realistic than American these days. I love Marx Bros., Laurel & Hardy, 3 Stooges, Simpsons etc, but I don't like some those unbelievebly shite sitcoms and "comedians" you produce. I saw some early episodes of Saturday Night Live, which I liked. But, after a few years, that went shite and never went good again.

[academic punk]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
"Limey" is American slang for the British. It comes from the practice of British sailors, who ate limes to prevent scurvy. Why it has evolved into this term I have no idea.

the term "gringo" had a similar evoltion: mexicans would hear the farmers north of the border sing "Green Grow the Rushes", and as a relsut took the first two words of the song, and would mockingly "sing" it back, eventually applying it to a slang, derogatory way to refer to USAers.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
Ah, I understand.

(We have a slang for Americans as well, but I don't want to say it, because you'll want to punch every Brit in the face).


I just think that British humour is generally more realistic than American these days. I love Marx Bros., Laurel & Hardy, 3 Stooges, Simpsons etc, but I don't like some those unbelievebly shite sitcoms and "comedians" you produce. I saw some early episodes of Saturday Night Live, which I liked. But, after a few years, that went shite and never went good again.

I would really like to hear the British terms of endearment for Americans.

And a lot of Americans don't like our shit sitcoms either. I don't think I watch a single one save for "That 70's Show" and "Arrested Development" which is a very funny show.

I watch a lot of "Monty Python" and just found out that BBC America carries "Benny Hill!":)

[ashstralia]

drew carey's good, too.
over here, americans are 'septics'

septic tank = yank.

fine aussie rhyming slang.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I would really like to hear the British terms of endearment for Americans.



Alright, then, this is not a personal thing, but a lot of British people call Americans tossers.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
Alright, then, this is not a personal thing, but a lot of British people call Americans tossers.

LOL "Septics" & "Tossers" and The world thinks so highly of us!:D

Does that mean Tosser as in jerking off or "yanking" it?

[Shaun Ponsonby]

YES.

Would you like to know where THAT comes from.

[Nickdfresh]

Of course, of course...

[Shaun Ponsonby]

This comes from the american wankers that are all over TV and the press, the ones that say;
"Remember when we had to help you out in WW2?"
When, let's face it, you wouldn't have done if it was not for Pearl Harbour. Let's not forget all the pride you have-you really do sound like dicks when we hear americans go on about "this country, where our forefathers..." (ZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!). Also, the fact that you won't wake up and smell the global warming and use less fossil fuels, plus, your incredibley loud mouths.

But, from american wankers, you get tossers.

And, before you say "not all americans are wankers", you must remember that not all "limeys" were sailors.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
This comes from the american wankers that are all over TV and the press, the ones that say;
"Remember when we had to help you out in WW2?"
When, let's face it, you wouldn't have done if it was not for Pearl Harbour. Let's not forget all the pride you have-you really do sound like dicks when we hear americans go on about "this country, where our forefathers..." (ZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!). Also, the fact that you won't wake up and smell the global warming and use less fossil fuels, plus, your incredibley loud mouths.

But, from american wankers, you get tossers.

And, before you say "not all americans are wankers", you must remember that not all "limeys" were sailors.

You're preaching to the choir so to speak.

[knuckleboner]

Originially posted by Shaun Ponsonby
Remember when we had to help you out in WW2?"
When, let's face it, you wouldn't have done if it was not for Pearl Harbour.

it's pearl HARBOR. we don't use superfluous "U"s...:D

seriously, though. question for you: how do british people (in general, of course) think of the U.S.'s aid in WWII?

personally, i think it's pretty clear that the lend-lease program helped a bit; but at the same time, after you limey bastards beat back the luftwaffe, there was little chance of germany actually invading britain.

my own reading is that the british probably couldn't have beaten germany on their own, but that germany could not have conquered you, either.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
it's pearl HARBOR. we don't use superfluous "U"s...:D

seriously, though. question for you: how do british people (in general, of course) think of the U.S.'s aid in WWII?

personally, i think it's pretty clear that the lend-lease program helped a bit; but at the same time, after you limey bastards beat back the luftwaffe, there was little chance of germany actually invading britain.

my own reading is that the british probably couldn't have beaten germany on their own, but that germany could not have conquered you, either.

Well, not after the Krauts invaded the Soviet Union.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Well, not after the Krauts invaded the Soviet Union.

True enough, but I've done a hell of a lot of reading on the Eastern Front in WWII. It's my favorite period/theater actually in history, other than Napoleonics and the American Civil War. I'm a military history buff. Anyhoo, much too much is made of the Soviet jugernaut.

The Germans did indeed bite off more than they could chew in 1941, but people don't really know how close they came to conquering the Soviet Union given the resources they had.

When the Red Army finally started its drive westward toward Germany, it took every thing it had to conquer the Krauts. They were pretty well spent come May of 1945 and had sustained horrendous losses, mostly because of commanders who fed their troops into the battle like meat into a meat grinder.

I digress....

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
True enough, but I've done a hell of a lot of reading on the Eastern Front in WWII. It's my favorite period/theater actually in history, other than Napoleonics and the American Civil War. I'm a military history buff. Anyhoo, much too much is made of the Soviet jugernaut.

The Germans did indeed bite off more than they could chew in 1941, but people don't really know how close they came to conquering the Soviet Union given the resources they had.

When the Red Army finally started its drive westward toward Germany, it took every thing it had to conquer the Krauts. They were pretty well spent come May of 1945 and had sustained horrendous losses, mostly because of commanders who fed their troops into the battle like meat into a meat grinder.

I digress....

True. I've done a little reading on that theater myself, and it's definitely NOT my favorite one. But it seems the Soviets managed to defeat the Germans despite Stalin's best efforts to the contrary (like executing most of his high command on the eve of war).

But Hitler was a stupid as Stalin, and filled with overconfidence following the Battle for France.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
it's pearl HARBOR. we don't use superfluous "U"s...:D

seriously, though. question for you: how do british people (in general, of course) think of the U.S.'s aid in WWII?



You spell it wrong then. It's our language, that's why it's called ENGLISH. You just adopted it and changed it a bit.

As for what we think of WW2.
WE DON'T CARE.

It was nearly 70 years ago. Most of us were not even born then. But, it's always from American mouths that we hear it from. A few months ago, I heard it 4 times in one week (Friends/Simpsons/Austin Powers/and I read a letter from somebody in the paper-it must have been the week that Bush was re-elected, because the English papers said how can all those people be so stupid). Get over it. We gave you a language, you gave us a hand.

[knuckleboner]

easy, i was kidding...


as for WWII, that's all i was looking for. i was just curious as to how it was viewed. as you might assume, i pretty much only get the viewpoint from this side of the pond. i wasn't expecting or anticipating any specific answer as to how the british viewed things. i just wanted an answer.

thanks.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
You spell it wrong then. It's our language, that's why it's called ENGLISH. You just adopted it and changed it a bit.

As for what we think of WW2.
WE DON'T CARE.

It was nearly 70 years ago. Most of us were not even born then. But, it's always from American mouths that we hear it from. A few months ago, I heard it 4 times in one week (Friends/Simpsons/Austin Powers/and I read a letter from somebody in the paper-it must have been the week that Bush was re-elected, because the English papers said how can all those people be so stupid). Get over it. We gave you a language, you gave us a hand.

It may be called ENGLISH, but you people don't speak or spell it properly. That goes double for the Scots! :D

:gulp:

[Shaun Ponsonby]

No, we invented it, YOU say/spell wrong. We were speaking this langiage before you lot were even discovered.

[Switch84]

:rolleyes: I think this 'debate' about a COMEDIAN is much ado about nothing! The same tired ass shit was said about Lenny Bruce, Richard Pryor, Moms Mabley, etc! Just insert a name, damn it. Nobody cried when Whoopi Goldberg consistently ragged on Bush and other politicians. It's what comedians do; they take current events and make jokes about them. This is not new, and you mofos need to lighten up.

Chris Rock ROCKS!!!

[Shaun Ponsonby]

We're not "DEBATING" about a "COMEDIAN" anymore.

[JoeTHUNDER'SMAN]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
We're not "DEBATING" about a "COMEDIAN" anymore.

Yes, from CHRIS ROCK to Linguistics! Simply smashing i must say!

[Nickdfresh]

WTF? When did Dr. Fankenfurter join?

[stringfelowhawk]

Because we weren't secretly helping the allies before Pearl Harbor or anything were we? No, our first involvement was because of Pearl Harbor? I've heard that quite a bit when I was on vacation in France and it has always bothered me.

WE WERE INVOLVED IN A MANNER AS TO NOT LOOK LIKE IT BUT WE WERE ALREADY SHIPPING SUPPLIES AND INTEL ETC WAY BEFORE PEARL HARBOR. WE DIDN'T PUBLICALLY ACKNOWLEDGE IT BUT IT WAS HAPPENING NONE THE LESS..... AND THAT MY FRIENDS IS A FACT!

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Fact-or lie? (the latter being the right answer)

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
Fact-or lie? (the latter being the right answer)

Regarding what?

[Shaun Ponsonby]

What stringfellowhawk said, post number 80, just above what I just said. I'd have thought that was a bit obvious.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
Fact-or lie? (the latter being the right answer)

Well then, he's correct. Google "Lend Lease Act." We basically gave old destroyers to the British Navy in 1940/41, and we were selling them a lot of tanks and aircraft used by the Desert Rats in Africa.

Also, the Roosevelt Administration was basically fighting a secret naval war using American destroyers against U-Boats in the North Atlantic during 1940-41.

And there is even a stupid conspiracy theory circulated that says that FDR (and Churchill) knew about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor ahead of time, but wanted the US forces to get pummeled so they could justify the US entering WWII more easily, though that is a lie.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

So, you were trading?
Just like every other country was.

[UGS]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
As for what we think of WW2.
WE DON'T CARE.

It was nearly 70 years ago. Most of us were not even born then.

That's a pretty ignorant statement. You don't care because you never experienced what losing WWII would have been like. I have tremendous respect for all Canadian/Allied veterans, as do most Canadians I know.

And regarding this English-language debate, if it wasn't for the American intervention, you'd be speaking FUCKING GERMAN RIGHT NOW! So let go the hang-ups you have over spelling. :)

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
So, you were trading?
Just like every other country was.

Giving. At substantually reduced rates. And if you noticed, we didn't leand lease to the Axis cunts.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Originally posted by UGS
That's a pretty ignorant statement. You don't care because you never experienced what losing WWII would have been like. I have tremendous respect for all Canadian/Allied veterans, as do most Canadians I know.

And regarding this English-language debate, if it wasn't for the American intervention, you'd be speaking FUCKING GERMAN RIGHT NOW! So let go the hang-ups you have over spelling. :)

This is exactly what I was talking about.

I find it so funny when AMERICANS/CANDIANS talk about IGNORANCE.

This is a different generation completely. The fact is, what happened happened, it can't be changed. The REASON we don't care is BECAUSE you keep going on about it. If you were all modest and silently pleasent about it, we would probably give you more credit.

And, Nick, I didn't notice that because I wasn't born. I will also be very suprised if you noticed it, because I'm guessing that you were also NOT BORN then.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby

And, Nick, I didn't notice that because I wasn't born. I will also be very suprised if you noticed it, because I'm guessing that you were also NOT BORN then.

No but I can read about it and so can you!;)

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Yea, but reading takes up too much time and energy. It's just so much easier to sit down with a tea and biscuits and watch 'The Young Ones'.

How did we get from Chris Rock to WW2 and the Americans vs the Brits?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
Yea, but reading takes up too much time and energy. It's just so much easier to sit down with a tea and biscuits and watch 'The Young Ones'.

How did we get from Chris Rock to WW2 and the Americans vs the Brits?

True!:D I actually watch the American cable channel "The History Channel" and admit to being a buff on this sort of thing.

I think the American vs. Brit thing devolves from cultural differences. Having said that, I am a reluctant Anglophile! And Irishphile as well, which makes me a bit conflicted.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Yea, well, let's get back to comedians.

Heard of Peter Kay in America?

He's huge over here (plays the same venues as Queen are playing this year)

Erm...to get this, you have to know what the Big Issue is-don't know if you have it in the USA. Basically, it's a magazine that homeless people sell-and the money they make from selling the magazine, they can keep.

PETER-"Knock Knock"
AUDIENCE-"Who's There?"
PETER-"Bigish"
AUDIENCE-"Bigish Who?"
PETER-"Not today, thanks! That's a joke that, that's the first joke you will tell when you get home. Saw a Big Issue seller the other day, he said 'I love your Phoenix Nights (this was a TV programme that he wrote/starred in)', I said 'Where've you seen it? Window in Dixons? I'll have my pound back, you robbing bastard. I said 'Knock knock', he said 'Who's there?', I said 'I thought you were fucking homeless!!!'"