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Big Train
03-02-2005, 02:51 PM
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/7048293?rnd=1109792475908&has-player=true

The Online Insurgency

MoveOn has become a force to be reckoned with

By TIM DICKINSON

They signed up 500,000 supporters with an Internet petition -- but Bill Clinton still got impeached. They organized 6,000 candlelight vigils worldwide -- but the U.S. still invaded Iraq. They raised $60 million from 500,000 donors to air countless ads and get out the vote in the battle-ground states -- but George Bush still whupped John Kerry. A gambler with a string of bets this bad might call it a night. But MoveOn.org just keeps doubling down.

Now that Howard Dean has been named chair of the Democratic National Committee -- an ascension that MoveOn helped to engineer -- the Internet activist group is placing another high-stakes wager. It's betting that its 3 million grass-roots revolutionaries can seize the reins of the party and establish the group as a lasting political force. "It's our Party," MoveOn's twenty-four-year-old executive director, Eli Pariser, declared in an e-mail. "We bought it, we own it and we're going to take it back." The group's new goal is sweeping in its ambition: To make 2006 a watershed year for liberal Democrats in Congress, in the same way that Newt Gingrich led a Republican revolution in 1994.

MoveOn has already revolutionized Democratic politics, energizing the party faithful in ways Karl Rove would envy. It laid the groundwork for Dean's online insurgency in the primaries, taught Kerry to use the Internet as a campaign ATM that spews out millions in small contributions and transformed 70,000 online members into get-out-the-vote volunteers. MoveOn "is culturally important for the party because they're teaching us how to innovate," says Simon Rosenberg, president of the centrist New Democrat Network. "Politics is a risk-averse business -- and they're not risk averse."

But many party insiders worry that an Internet insurgency working hand in hand with a former Vermont governor will only succeed in pushing the party so far to the left that it can't compete in the red states. "It's electoral suicide," says Dan Gerstein, a former strategist for Joe Lieberman's presidential campaign. MoveOn committed a series of costly blunders last fall: It failed to remove two entries that compared Bush to Hitler from its online ad contest, and its expensive television spots barely registered in the campaign. One conservative commentator, alluding to MoveOn's breathless promotion of Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11, branded the group the "MooreOn" wing of the party. All of which leaves political veterans wondering: As MoveOn becomes a vital part of the Democratic establishment, will its take-no-prisoners attitude marginalize the party and strengthen the Republican stranglehold on power?

"My view of MoveOn is that they're like muscular adolescents," says Rosenberg. "Their body has grown too quickly -- they're going to make mistakes."

Moveon is guided by a tiny, tightknit group of leaders. There are only ten of them, still deeply committed to the Internet start-up ethos of working out of their homes and apartments in better-dead-than-red bastions such as Berkeley, California, Manhattan and Washington, D.C. For a political organization that likes to rail against "the consulting class of professional election losers," MoveOn seems remarkably unconcerned about its own win-loss record. Talk to the group's leadership and you won't hear much about the agony of defeat. Wes Boyd -- the software entrepreneur who used his fortune from creating the Flying Toaster screen saver to co-found MoveOn -- blithely acknowledges the need to produce some electoral wins "in the classical sense." But he sees the rise of MoveOn's progressive populism as a moral victory in and of itself.

The group's latest strategy consists of a one-two punch. First, MoveOn is ditching the traditional Democratic model of using paid canvassers, whom the group derides for blowing into town every four years "like the occasional tornado." Instead, it plans to emulate Karl Rove -- building a permanent field campaign, staffed by MoveOn volunteers reaching out to their neighbors. The group is relaunching its innovative program of on-the-ground canvassing -- starting with the Social Security battle -- and will keep the effort in motion until the next issue surfaces.

Second, MoveOn is taking the lead in denouncing Bush's agenda. On Social Security, it has already raised $500,000 to air ads in four congressional districts whose representatives are leaning toward privatization. Tom Matzzie, MoveOn's twenty-nine-year-old Washington director, says the ads are aimed at the president, whom he bluntly calls a "son of a bitch."

That's the part that worries moderate Democrats. For now, party insiders are playing nice with MoveOn, which could contribute millions to their campaigns. They recognize, after all, that an active left is as crucial if the Democrats are to regain power as the Christian right has been to the GOP. When asked about MoveOn, two prominent Democratic strategists feed me the exact same talking point: "We've got to learn how to walk and chew gum at the same time" -- meaning, as one of them explains, "If you're going to be successful, as Bush has proven, you have to energize your base, and you've got to appeal to swing voters."

But some insiders worry that putting left-wing idealists in charge of speaking to the center seems about as likely to work as chewing gum with your feet. "There's a built-in tension between the views of people who are part of MoveOn and contribute to it, and the people they're trying to reach," says Ed Kilgore of the centrist Democratic Leadership Council.

MoveOn insists it knows the difference between messages shrill enough to stoke the fires of activists in San Francisco and ones levelheaded enough to win the hearts and minds of working-class folk in Scranton. The group says it tested the ads it aired during last year's campaign. "If you're going to spend millions and millions of dollars, you want to make sure this is speaking to the right people," says Joan Blades, who co-founded MoveOn with her husband, Boyd.

But there's little evidence that the huge investment yielded a political profit. If speaking to the center was MoveOn's goal, "they failed miserably," says Greg Strimple, a media consultant who advised the Senate campaigns of three GOP moderates. "None of their ads had an impact on the center electorate that needed to be swung." If the group's leadership saw anything broken with its advertising during the campaign, though, it shows no signs of fixing it. In a rush to get its new Social Security ad on the air, MoveOn didn't even test it.

The ad, which depicts senior citizens performing manual labor, was not only paid for by MoveOn members but was also created by them. This kind of closed feedback loop is indicative of a larger problem: the group's almost hermetic left-wing insularity. "We don't get around much," acknowledges Boyd. "We tend to all stay in front of our keyboards and do the work."

For MoveOn, "the work" consists of looking for spikes in e-mail traffic and monitoring online forums to divine the issues that drive its members. Boyd and Blades have bitten hard on the "wisdom of crowds" concept. They believe that strategies posted and rated by fellow activists provide the basis for picking campaigns that members will pay to support. "We've discovered a way to engage people so that they want to open their wallets," says Boyd. "If we can come up with a great campaign, we know it will get funded."

Boyd is a whip-smart man with a deep passion for populist democracy. But speaking to him about MoveOn's constituency is like speaking to someone who spends all day in an Internet chat room and assumes the rest of the world is as psyched as he and his online compatriots are about, say, the Lord of the Rings trilogy. He seems to conflate MoveOn with the rest of America. "We see ourselves as a broad American public," he says. "We assume that things that resonate with our base resonate with America."

In fact, there appears to be an almost willful ignorance about who actually composes MoveOn. "We're pretty light on the demographics," Boyd says without apology. "It's funny, when we talk to people in Washington, that's the first question we're asked." He adds with note of self-satisfaction: "We've been largely nonresponsive."

But Boyd's refusal to pin down who MoveOn is -- and who it isn't -- also makes it easy for Republicans to project an undesirable face on the organization. "The GOP is painting us as socialist radicals," Blades tells me with seeming disbelief over Thai chicken salad at the Berkeley Art Museum. "And if you'd been reading any of their publications, you'd think that we were a bunch of wildass lunatics." Does MoveOn have a branding problem? "I think it might," she says.

So who is MoveOn? Consider this: Howard Dean finished first in the MoveOn primary. Number Two wasn't John Kerry or John Edwards -- it was Dennis Kucinich. Listing the issues that resonate most with their membership, Boyd and Blades cite the environment, the Iraq War, campaign-finance reform, media reform, voting reform and corporate reform. Somewhere after freedom, opportunity and responsibility comes "the overlay of security concerns that everybody shares." Terrorism as a specific concern is notably absent. As are jobs. As is health care. As is education.

There's nothing inherently good or bad in any of this. It's just that MoveOn's values aren't middle-American values. They're the values of an educated, steadily employed middle and upper-middle class with time to dedicate to politics -- and disposable income to leverage when they're agitated. That's fine, as long as the group sticks to mobilizing fellow travelers on the left. But the risks are greater when it presumes to speak for the entire party. "The decibel level that MoveOn can bring is very high," says Bill Carrick, a longtime Democratic strategist.

Like so many other Internet start-ups, MoveOn has raised -- and burned through -- tens of millions of dollars, innovating without producing many concrete results. Any reasonable analysis shows its stock may be dangerously overvalued. Those banking on MoveOn had better hope it is more Google than Pets.com. Because should the group flame out, the Democrats could be in for a fall of Nasdaq proportions.

DrMaddVibe
03-02-2005, 02:57 PM
LOL!!!!!

academic punk
03-02-2005, 02:57 PM
and so what does roling stone "admit"?

This is reporting. You may not be familiar with it, as an avid viewer of FOX News, but Rolling Stone does label their op-eds as such.

The fact that Rollign Stone can take a critical look at one of the 527's that support the same idealogical views as they do (and maybe they don't: they do say that these guys don't seem to understand that in different regions of the country, different values prevail as to party-lines), is pretty applaudable. I've seen Bill O'Reilly do it on occassion, but never Sean Hannity (who just has that walking skull as a side-kick who is supposedly the other side of the argument, but just sits there like the docile little boy he is raking in the cash).

Big Train
03-02-2005, 03:33 PM
Your so lame. I don't watch Fox News, but whatever, more people do.

What are they admitting? The inability, after all the hype and effort, to get any of their basic goals done. Nothing major..

ODShowtime
03-02-2005, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by Big Train

They raised $60 million from 500,000 donors to air countless ads and get out the vote in the battle-ground states -- but George Bush still whupped John Kerry.

yeah, and public opinion really mattered in this election

BigBadBrian
03-02-2005, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
yeah, and public opinion really mattered in this election

By at least 3.5 million votes... ;)

Big Train
03-02-2005, 03:36 PM
Whaaaaaaa...

If your concerned about the outcome of the election, my question to Ford has been for months, and now you:

Why don't the use all that money and influence to do a simple thing: buy a voting machine and demonstrate how the machines can be tampered with? Which would launch a real investigation into the claims the radicals maintain.

Why? Cause they are either too stupid or just don't have anything to back it up. Which means, as an organization, they are a failure.

ODShowtime
03-02-2005, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Whaaaaaaa...

If your concerned about the outcome of the election, my question to Ford has been for months, and now you:

Why don't the use all that money and influence to do a simple thing: buy a voting machine and demonstrate how the machines can be tampered with? Which would launch a real investigation into the claims the radicals maintain.

Why? Cause they are either too stupid or just don't have anything to back it up. Which means, as an organization, they are a failure.

I'm not sticking up for Moveon.org. I could give a shit about them.

I think you're deluded if you think any authorities would be launching any official investigations no matter what proof was presented.

Big Train
03-02-2005, 03:50 PM
Not deluded at all. You think those minority Senators would not have a field day with that? Barbara Boxer alone could go on and on for days about that.

The fact is the should have proved it if they were smart enough. But they weren't. None of the libs were.

FORD
03-02-2005, 03:50 PM
So when are the Republicans going to admit that "USA Next/SwiftBoatLiarsForBush" is a joke?

And yes, it is the same organization.

BigBadBrian
03-02-2005, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by FORD
So when are the Republicans going to admit that "USA Next/SwiftBoatLiarsForBush" is a joke?

And yes, it is the same organization.

Joke? Like it or not, that organization was effective. MoveOn.org really was not for the members they supposedly had. Their members were mostly young and the young didn't vote in any bigger numbers for this election than in previous elections. :gulp:

academic punk
03-02-2005, 04:04 PM
I for one have never said this election was rigged in any way whatsoever. Both sides had more lawyers than voters, if anything out of bounds occurred, it would've been found. public opinion - though not mine - was Bush.

But what is with changing the topic from the Moveon article to this apocryphal voting machine shit? Stay on topic, folks.

The artcile was asking if the democratic party would be wise to maybe not thorw in their life preservers in the Moveon boat. And, again, it was reporting. That RS would do that article - and not just leave it for Hannity - is responsible journalism. Again, JOURNALISM. Not op-eds.

Big Train
03-02-2005, 04:39 PM
Sorry sir, just thought I would point out another way that moveon dropped the ball (actually THE way).

On topic, moveon is not effective and the traditional Dems would only add to that. They were formed as a fringe group remember. The mainstream Dems will do nothing to it except add layers of ineffectiveness, exactly what it doesn't need.

Responsible Journalism=Sources you agree with.

(yes, I am aware you will turn and spin it back in the conservative direction..yadda yadda..)

DrMaddVibe
03-02-2005, 04:40 PM
Rolling Stone...why not go with the National Enquirer?

Same type of rag!

academic punk
03-02-2005, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by Big Train


Responsible Journalism=Sources you agree with.

(yes, I am aware you will turn and spin it back in the conservative direction..yadda yadda..)

I dunno. I remember the cover story on John Kerry in the NY Times magazine, and thinking "I'm saying right on!!! a little too much here for this artcile to be objective journailism.

Responsible journailism is objective and intelligent. It simply reports. Lou Dobbs I think is the best example out there today, though he is no stranger to the op-ed. (and no one seesm to remember that he is a lifelong registered repubilcan).

My local news station is actually pretty good (NY1). Too bad they're not on a national level. (they're a subsidy of CNN, actually)

But, come on, if you open the Times as opposed to the Post or the Daily News...those latter two juts write articlaes about "Bodega robed". Mention of the Pope will occur on page 7!

I subscribe to U.S. News and World Report and the Economist. I think those are pretty non-partisan. Mother Jones is shit.

ELVIS
03-02-2005, 07:12 PM
Moveon.org is a joke, but who cares what Rolling Stone says ??

academic punk
03-02-2005, 07:16 PM
But there, Elvis, is the rub: The left didn't take the evangelical vote seriously, called it - as you do about moveon - a joke, and that's the votes that gave Bush the election.

Moveon can be effective - with the right vision and leadership. Keep your eyeon it...if nothing else, it will play a hand in the shaping of the next several elections..

DrMaddVibe
03-02-2005, 07:22 PM
If you read the article the Dems believe it will play into the hands of the Republicans!

ELVIS
03-02-2005, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by academic punk
Moveon can be effective - with the right vision and leadership. Keep your eyeon it...if nothing else, it will play a hand in the shaping of the next several elections..

I keep my eye on it...;)

ODShowtime
03-03-2005, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by academic punk
But there, Elvis, is the rub: The left didn't take the evangelical vote seriously, called it - as you do about moveon - a joke, and that's the votes that gave Bush the election.

Moveon can be effective - with the right vision and leadership. Keep your eyeon it...if nothing else, it will play a hand in the shaping of the next several elections..

yeah, but even if the dems took the evangelicals seriously, what could they do about it? Rove's been crawling up their ass for years.

ELVIS
03-03-2005, 12:51 AM
God's people always win...

LoungeMachine
03-03-2005, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by ELVIS
God's people always win...

Just another ridiculous statement:rolleyes:

Wayne L.
03-04-2005, 10:53 AM
MoveOn.Org is the biggest joke in politics even though nobody on the far left liberal side of the Democratic Party will admit it. BTW, Rolling Stone magazine should hang it up for good after almost 40 years since it's worthless & has been mostly uncool since the 80's.