Politics explained and the fall of liberalism

[academic punk]

Time after time, Bush administration policies - from Stealth Tax Increases like the Alternative Minum Tax to the recent banruptcy reform bill written essentially by credit card companies - do real economic harm to ordinary people, yet the Democrats can't seem to turn that reality into winning politics. Why not? People understand what Bush is up to.

So why are Democrats failing to turn this into a winning politics? Five reasons.

First, dozens of Democratic legislators vote with Bush, usually to curry favor with organized corporate business interests that write these bills (and campaign checks). Eighteen Senate Dems even voted for the bankruptcy bill. This blurs the distinction between the parties and leaves the impression that Democrats don't know what they stand for. Nobody wants to follow a wimp.

Second, center-right Democrats urge their party to avoid ''populism." But sticking up for the economic interests of ordinary people is not populist in the sense of class warfare. It's the essence of what once made Democrats the majority party. Nor is it ''antibusiness" to defend a fair tax system, adequate social outlays, and regulation to protect consumers and investors.

Third, Bush is a master propagandist, with tame or intimidated media eating out of his hand, while the supposedly liberal press bends over backward to be evenhanded.

Fourth, the cultural conservatism of many moderate-income Americans attracts them to Republicans who don't serve their economic interests. But cultural moderation will not save the souls of Democrats unless they start delivering the goods economically.

Finally, there's a war on, and people generally support a wartime president.

Democrats need to challenge Bush on the best strategies to keep Americans safe, but they are not maximizing their advantage on the pocketbook issues where they should be eating Bush's lunch. The one happy exception is Social Security, where Democrats have managed more unity than usual, and they may prevail. There's surely a lesson here.

[UNCLAX72]

all news besides fox is liberal and by the way i can't wait until the fall of liberalism it will be the day the world

[FORD]

I still think we need a Mandatory IQ test before voting. Or posting in this forum.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by UNCLAX72
all news besides fox is liberal and by the way i can't wait until the fall of liberalism it will be the day the world

Wayne????

[ELVIS]

The day the world ??


:confused:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
The day the world ??


:confused:

Hey, you speak ignerrent neo-con..........

translate it for us:D

[ELVIS]

Not that ignerrent...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by UNCLAX72
all news besides fox is liberal and by the way i can't wait until the fall of liberalism it will be the day the world

Thanks Wayne L.

[academic punk]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Not that ignerrent...


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Solid comeback to a good left-hook!

[Warham]

The day liberalism ends will be a glorious day.

Drinks for everybody!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
The day liberalism ends will be a glorious day.

Drinks for everybody!

The we have a nice snowball fight with SATAN!:p

[steve]

The fall of liberalism can be attributed to a few things:

1. They continue to support affirmative action.

2. There is an anti-intellectual current in American thinking that can be traced back to the mid-eighties.

3. People have been fed this crazy lie from Fox News and spin culture that Democrats are liberal pacifist wimps and won't take up arms to fight.

[DrMaddVibe]

I see it differently.

Their demise is based on the old ways.

1) Race bait to inflame people.

2) Promise everything but deliver nothing.

3) Appealing to a fringe mentality that have never been right in regards to World views.

Now in an effort to stave off extinction they want to go all the way to the left and get the moveon.org's and Dean's of this nation to try and save their eroding party. They've lost the house and senate, the presidency, state and local governments at a pace that would make rational thinking people want to think about what it is they stand for and clarify that message, but instead its only about opposing Bush. That's not a message for the future. Despite their best(snicker)efforts and money they were duped into thinking Kerry could be their savior.

Wonder how much cash Soros could've donated to education or kevlar vests for our police departments? You get what you paid for.

[FORD]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
They've lost the house and senate, the presidency, state and local governments at a pace that would make rational thinking people want to think about what it is they stand for and clarify that message, but instead its only about opposing Bush. That's not a message for the future. Despite their best(snicker)efforts and money they were duped into thinking Kerry could be their savior.

While these facts are somewhat accurate, your conclusion is not. It is not the "left" or the TRUE Democrats who are responsible for these things, but the DLC who are actually neocon moles posing as Democrats. They chose Kerry out of fear that Dean would destroy their corporatist stranglehold on the party, due to his ability to raise massive amounts of money in a short time from ordinary people, not corporations. And they rigged the primary system so Judas would win. The corporate media was only happy to help, as Dean had specifically targeted them as well.

Then the DLC shitbags kept Kerry from fighting back even when he wanted to. Actually the guy's done a decent job of it - AFTER the election :(

The real Democrats got their revenge by vetoing the DLC's chosen candidates for DNC chair and voting in the man of the people this time. The DLC isn't the kind of cancer you can kill overnight, but at least we got the Doctor on the job. The party of FDR, Truman, and JFK will be back, AssVibe. You can bet on that :)

[Big Train]

Ford, C'mon...

Your team is getting it's ass handed to them all of the country and it isn't because of "Moles" or other shadowy things. They need to look in the mirror, realize they have no balls, no drive, no ideas to stand on. The leaders are weak and just as beholden as any "neocon". The most fiery characters in the party and their associates (I'll humor you and say Michael Moore ISN'T central to the party) are not unifers in any way with any mainstream group.

I actually pray for the rise of a third party, but America when it comes down to it just seems afraid to make the decision. That ain't Fox News guys...people here agonized over it and eventually stuck with mainstream parties. The Dems need to get it together, toss out their leadership and start TODAY to get things right.

[DrMaddVibe]

Regardless of where they get their money...it's the same conclusion!

They lost. They will lose. They're sore losers.

Don't formulate a plan from a differing viewpoint, no; that requires effort! Just oppose the current administration, and then do it again when he wins re-election!

That shows me that they had no plan all along and never did!

Your beloved party is like a wounded dog. Whimpering, hiding under the porch licking its deep wounds and proven to not be trusted to be the "Alpha" male of the pack! Give the "dog" a .38 solution and moveon!

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Regardless of where they get their money...it's the same conclusion!

They lost. They will lose. They're sore losers.

Don't formulate a plan from a differing viewpoint, no; that requires effort! Just oppose the current administration, and then do it again when he wins re-election!

That shows me that they had no plan all along and never did!

Your beloved party is like a wounded dog. Whimpering, hiding under the porch licking its deep wounds and proven to not be trusted to be the "Alpha" male of the pack! Give the "dog" a .38 solution and moveon!

You crack me up.

Think you now have a lock on power? Know your US History? Ever see patterns and cycles develop???

Beware the Second Term:cool:

[FORD]

Considering the sick game the GOP is playing at this very moment, I believe it's the Republicans who should worry about their party's future.

Where's the Republican equivalent to Howard Dean? Where's a conservative who will call out the BCE and Tom Delay on their barbaric fascist policies?

I don't see any one out there except Kool Aid drinkers.

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
You crack me up.

Think you now have a lock on power? Know your US History? Ever see patterns and cycles develop???

Beware the Second Term:cool:

Where did I say that the Republicans had total authority? I didn't. I did say that the Dems have lost, will lose and continue to be sore losers.

Patterns and Cycles? Tell that to the Whigs and the Federalists! Where are they now? Gone. Their remanents are visable but for all practical purposes...gone. That's where the Dems are heading too!

Don't try to read something that isn't there.

[academic punk]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe


3) Appealing to a fringe mentality that have never been right in regards to World views.

.


Fringe mentality? Might I remind you that this "fringe" garnered virtually the same number of votes in this past presidential election?

And in terms of the amount of bad will that the past 5 years have given this country with foreign relations, I wouldn't say the dems are the only one who have made errors in terms of world views.

[steve]

here's what the democratic party has to change:

mold an agressive foreign policy - a counter to bush's...something concrete...and get someone to the forefront that can explain it well. Agressive doesn't have to mean MILITARILY agressive. It could, for instance, be EXACTLY like Gephardt's support for a global "worker's bill of rights"...but it's shouldn't come from the mouth of that rosey-cheeked grandma lookin' (although well-intentioned) character.

this should include supporting an 100K ground troops (US, UN, UK, French, Spanish, whatever...) in Sudan NOW. They should have been there a year ago. Omar al-Bashir has slaughtered his people...the supposed hawkish stewards of democracy have done NOTHING. http://archive.parade.com/2005/0213/0213_dictator.html

Crit. Bush for letting Quadafi off the hook. Sure he gave up his "WMD" program, but he still tortures his people JUST LIKE SADDAM!! Hell, how do we know that he didn't FAKE his WMD program, and "giv eit up" just to get the US off his back. He is also supporting Bashir in Sudan.

Draft tough-talking libertarian and Spartan LEANING folk into the party...the Jesse Venturas, Howard Sterns, & Dave Roths of the world. Convince them they have a place in the new D Party.

Give up the afirmative action...it doesn't really affect people either way, but it looks real bad.

Ds have long been the party for social freedoms and equal rights. however, they're being WAY TOO wishy-washy on the gay marriage issue...in the long run, the Repub. confrontation with gay marriage makes them look stupid. Be on the correct side now. So what if you tank a little in the short run.

scream AC/DC loud that the democrats are molding themselves into the party of fiscal disipline. For those about to lower taxes ONLY SLIGHTLY SO WE DON'T BANKRUPT OURSELVES, we salute you.

most folks agree with the D abortion issue...that of, "Nobody WANTS abortions...including us. It's an unfortunate decision, but we will allow abortions prior to pain sensory/brain birth development at aprox 3 months. Life beginning at conception is a religious issue, not science.
As it is 90% of doctors who perform abportions will only do it in the first trimester. Yell this. Late term abortions are irresponsible and should be illegal - unless the health of the mother is risked.
Drop the "PRO CHOICE" slogan...it is too vague compared to "PRO LIFE". Use "PLANNED PARENTHOOD" as a slogan more.

Instead of just complaining about Bush's stem cell research policy and the fact that ALL of his science and medical advisors are Leon Kass mold religious conservatives and he kicked all the liberals (in Clinton's day it was 50/50 becasue it was supposed to be a forum for DEBATE, not an idealogical concensus!). yes, he is wrong, but come up with clear alternatives. Yell about the people that SHOULD be on Bush's medical ethics panel...All the professors that got left off.

Medical costs are starting to hurt business...look at GM. use this as an argument for socialized medicine. Don't use the word "socialize" like I just did.
the kicker would be, this socialized medicine would be mainly preventive...and VERY limited. For instance, folks might get 3 doc visits a year. Any more, they would pay for out of pocket. All the new drugs that just go down a little easier (like the billion and 1 new alergy meds that have the same active ingredients as BENADRYL!) and don't offer any new treatment...NOT COVERED. Simple things like broken legs, child birth... children's doc visits...COVERED. VIAGARA...NOT COVERED. Birth control...covered for teenage girls. old school CHEAP AS SHIT anti-inflamatories like Prednisone...COVERED. fancy new anti-inflamatories...NOT COVERED. Old school barium tests to check your colon...COVERED. 20K a test CAT scans...not covered.

A really bare bones health care system - utter simplicity. It would leave incentive for folks to carry their own health care.
emergency room type visits would have to be covered, of course, but a lot of those would be prevented by regular, twice a year doc visits.
Meanwhile, the folks now that have NOTHING would at least have something to get them started...something

Lower private health care prmiums through prescription drug regulation. It's estimated that 20% of health premium cost rises can be attributed to prescription drug ADVERTISING alone. yet we let the prescription drug companies write the Medicaide bill.

Promote a GLOBAL worker's bill of rights. (did I say that?)

Don't austricise leftist leaning South American, DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED folks. Chavev...he isn't very democratic. but many of the new left leaning Prime Ministers and Presidents are EXTREMELY for free speech...they just aren't as open market after Argentina's world bank influenced CRASH.

[Sarge's Little Helper]

Yeah, I'm a bot. But I ain't no Bushbot!! :cool: