The Not Intelligent Design Thread!

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  • Nickdfresh
    SUPER MODERATOR

    • Oct 2004
    • 49204

    The Not Intelligent Design Thread!

    March 30, 2005

    Not Intelligent, and Surely Not Science

    By Michael Shermer, Michael Shermer is founding publisher of Skeptic magazine and the author of "Science Friction: Where the Known Meets the Unknown" (Times Books, 2005).

    According to intelligent-design theory, life is too complex to have evolved by natural forces. Therefore life must have been created by a supernatural force — an intelligent designer. ID theorists argue that because such design can be inferred through the methods of science, IDT should be given equal time alongside evolutionary theory in public school science classes. Nine states have recently proposed legislation that would require just that.

    The evolution-creation legal battle began in 1925 with the Scopes "monkey" trial, over the banning of the teaching of evolution in Tennessee. The controversy caused textbook publishers and state boards of education to cease teaching evolution — until the Soviets launched Sputnik in the late 1950s and the United States realized it was falling behind in the sciences.

    Creationists responded by passing equal-time laws that required the teaching of both creationism and evolution, a strategy defeated in a 1968 Arkansas trial that found that such a law attempted to "establish religion" in a public school and was therefore unconstitutional. This led to new equal-time laws covering "creation science" and "evolution science." In 1987, the Supreme Court, by a vote of 7 to 2, said teaching creation science "impermissibly endorses religion by advancing the religious belief that a supernatural being created humankind."

    This history explains why proponents of intelligent design are careful to never specify the true, religious nature of their theory and to insist that what they are doing is science. For example, leading ID scholar William Dembski wrote in his 2003 book, "The Design Revolution": "Intelligent design is a strictly scientific theory devoid of religious commitments. Whereas the creator underlying scientific creationism conforms to a strict, literalist interpretation of the Bible, the designer underlying intelligent design need not even be a deity."

    But let's be clear: Intelligent-design theory is not science. The proof is in the pudding. Scientists, including scientists who are Christians, do not use IDT when they do science because it offers nothing in the way of testable hypotheses. Lee Anne Chaney, professor of biology at Whitworth College, a Christian institution, wrote in a 1995 article: "As a Christian, part of my belief system is that God is ultimately responsible. But as a biologist, I need to look at the evidence…. I don't think intelligent design is very helpful because it does not provide things that are refutable — there is no way in the world you can show it's not true. Drawing inferences about the deity does not seem to me to be the function of science because it's very subjective."

    Intelligent-design theory lacks, for instance, a hypothesis of the mechanics of the design, something akin to natural selection in evolution. Natural selection can and has been observed and tested, and Charles Darwin's theory has been refined.

    Intelligent-design theorists admit the difference, at least among themselves. Here is ID proponent Paul Nelson, writing last year in Touchstone, a Christian magazine: "Right now, we've got a bag of powerful intuitions, and a handful of notions such as 'irreducible complexity' and 'specified complexity' — but, as yet, no general theory of biological design."

    If intelligent design is not science, then what is it? One of its originators, Phillip Johnson, a law professor at UC Berkeley, wrote in a 1999 article: "The objective is to convince people that Darwinism is inherently atheistic, thus shifting the debate from creationism versus evolution to the existence of God versus the nonexistence of God. From there people are introduced to 'the truth' of the Bible and then 'the question of sin' and finally 'introduced to Jesus.' "

    On March 9, I debated ID scholar Stephen Meyer at Westminster College in Fulton, Mo. After two hours of debate over the scientific merits (or lack thereof) of IDT, Meyer admitted in the question-and-answer period that he thinks that the intelligent designer is the Judeo-Christian God and that suboptimal designs and deadly diseases are not examples of an unintelligent or malevolent designer, but instead were caused by "the fall" in the Garden of Eden. Dembski has also told me privately that he believes the intelligent designer is the God of Abraham.

    The term "intelligent design" is nothing more than a linguistic place-filler for something unexplained by science. It is saying, in essence, that if there is no natural explanation for X, then the explanation must be a supernatural one. Proponents of intelligent design cannot imagine, for example, how the bacterial flagellum (such as the little tail that propels sperm cells) could have evolved; ergo, they conclude, it was intelligently designed. But saying "intelligent design did it" does not explain anything. Scientists would want to know how and when ID did it, and what forces ID used.

    In fact, invoking intelligent design as God's place-filler can only result in the naturalization of the deity. God becomes just another part of the natural world, and thereby loses the transcendent mystery and divinity that define the boundary between religion and science.

    According to intelligent-design theory, life is too complex to have evolved by natural forces.
  • Nickdfresh
    SUPER MODERATOR

    • Oct 2004
    • 49204

    #2
    Say? Where's Elvis been? Has he left the building?

    Comment

    • Seshmeister
      ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

      • Oct 2003
      • 35192

      #3
      I checked it out a while back and I'm afraid to say Intelligent Design Theory is a pile of shit.

      My quest to find the answer to life the universe and everything cuntinues.

      I'll let you all know when I find it...

      Comment

      • Nickdfresh
        SUPER MODERATOR

        • Oct 2004
        • 49204

        #4
        Originally posted by Seshmeister
        I checked it out a while back and I'm afraid to say Intelligent Design Theory is a pile of shit.

        My quest to find the answer to life the universe and everything cuntinues.

        I'll let you all know when I find it...
        Michael Shermer is an interesting guy. He seems like a bit of a book hawking attention whore, but he has a good mind and an interesting take on things.

        Comment

        • vanzilla
          Veteran
          • Jul 2004
          • 1773

          #5
          Nick - Michael Shermer was on Penn and Teller's Bullshit! Season 2 last year. They did an episode on biblical contradictions. He was great.

          If you're into stuff like this, I highly recommend checking out P&T's Bullshit! on Showtime. Season 3 starts up April 25. It's the most intelligent TV show on the air in my opinion. Journalism the way it was meant to be done.
          Just because the title "moderator" is under my name doesn't mean I have to be nice to cunts like you. - DLR7884 to FPC

          Vanzilla's New "Can't Get This Stuff No More" Video Coming Soon!

          Comment

          • Nickdfresh
            SUPER MODERATOR

            • Oct 2004
            • 49204

            #6
            Originally posted by vanzilla
            Nick - Michael Shermer was on Penn and Teller's Bullshit! Season 2 last year. They did an episode on biblical contradictions. He was great.

            If you're into stuff like this, I highly recommend checking out P&T's Bullshit! on Showtime. Season 3 starts up April 25. It's the most intelligent TV show on the air in my opinion. Journalism the way it was meant to be done.
            I keep forgetting to check the listings for that. I've seen the show show before, the one on cryogenics! They are fucking great!

            Comment

            • Figs
              Crazy Ass Mofo
              • Jun 2004
              • 2942

              #7
              Vanzilla - I just saw that one with Michael Shermer, the one that debunks the Bible. Great episode - remember the "Actual Footage?"

              I have been renting the P&T shows from Netflix recently and I think they are great. In fact, I'm practically a P&T sheep, I agree with their take on pretty much everything, baaaa, baaaa. I've seen all season 2, and one disc from season 1.

              Comment

              • BigBadBrian
                TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                • Jan 2004
                • 10625

                #8
                Originally posted by Seshmeister
                I checked it out a while back and I'm afraid to say Intelligent Design Theory is a pile of shit.

                My quest to find the answer to life the universe and everything cuntinues.

                I'll let you all know when I find it...
                Probably at the bottom of a bottle of Scotch.
                “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

                Comment

                • Cathedral
                  ROTH ARMY ELITE
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 6621

                  #9
                  The HEMI engine, now THAT'S an intelligent design....

                  Comment

                  • Seshmeister
                    ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

                    • Oct 2003
                    • 35192

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Figs
                    In fact, I'm practically a P&T sheep, I agree with their take on pretty much everything, baaaa, baaaa.
                    You do realise they don't drink, smoke or take drugs...?

                    Comment

                    • Cathedral
                      ROTH ARMY ELITE
                      • Jan 2004
                      • 6621

                      #11
                      The Chevy 454 is NOT an intelligent design....

                      Comment

                      • Seshmeister
                        ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

                        • Oct 2003
                        • 35192

                        #12
                        Originally posted by BigBadBrian
                        Probably at the bottom of a bottle of Scotch.
                        You may be onto something...

                        Comment

                        • Figs
                          Crazy Ass Mofo
                          • Jun 2004
                          • 2942

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Seshmeister
                          You do realise they don't drink, smoke or take drugs...?
                          Yes I do - Straight edge!!


                          Actually I might get a little drunk once or twice a year...

                          Comment

                          • vanzilla
                            Veteran
                            • Jul 2004
                            • 1773

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Figs
                            Vanzilla - I just saw that one with Michael Shermer, the one that debunks the Bible. Great episode - remember the "Actual Footage?"

                            I have been renting the P&T shows from Netflix recently and I think they are great. In fact, I'm practically a P&T sheep, I agree with their take on pretty much everything, baaaa, baaaa. I've seen all season 2, and one disc from season 1.
                            Hell yeah Figs! PENN AND TELLER FUCKING RULE! End of debate no questions asked. They fucking rip their opponents apart without even thinking twice and do it so intelligently and efficiently that they don't know what the fuck just hit 'em!!!!


                            God I wish all "news" shows came out with guns a blazin' like these two bad motherfuckers. I'm a total sheep - freely admit it - bought season 2 and will soon own season 1. New Season starts April 25th. I think one of the topics is why a college education is horse shit! I totally agree with that, considering I dropped out and got a job doing exactly what I went to school for in the first place.

                            Rock on Figs, my P&T brother! You kick ass!
                            Just because the title "moderator" is under my name doesn't mean I have to be nice to cunts like you. - DLR7884 to FPC

                            Vanzilla's New "Can't Get This Stuff No More" Video Coming Soon!

                            Comment

                            • Figs
                              Crazy Ass Mofo
                              • Jun 2004
                              • 2942

                              #15
                              Excellent! A lot of college is bullshit, a lot is not, looking forward to that one although I'll have to wait for the disc. They rip fuckers to shreds, and I think they're pretty balanced politically.

                              Sorry, didn't mean to hijack this thread.

                              Back on topic, creationism & "intelligent" design are silly.

                              Comment

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