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BigBadBrian
03-02-2004, 01:05 PM
San Francisco and Islamists: Fighting the same enemy
Dennis Prager


March 2, 2004


America is engaged in two wars for the survival of its civilization. The war over same-sex marriage and the war against Islamic totalitarianism are actually two fronts in the same war -- a war for the preservation of the unique American creation known as Judeo-Christian civilization.

One enemy is religious extremism. The other is secular extremism.

One enemy is led from abroad. The other is directed from home.

The first war is against the Islamic attempt to crush whoever stands in the way of the spread of violent Islamic theocracies, such as al Qaeda, the Taliban, the Iranian mullahs and Hamas. The other war is against the secular nihilism that manifests itself in much of Western Europe, in parts of America such as San Francisco and in many of our universities.

America leads the battle against both religious and secular nihilism and is hated by both because it rejects both equally. American values preclude embracing either religious extremism or radical secularism. As Alexis de Tocqueville, probably the greatest observer of our society, wrote almost 200 years ago, America is a unique combination of secular government and religious (Judeo-Christian) society.

Not only has this combination been unique, it has been uniquely successful. America, therefore, poses as mortal a threat to radical secularism as it does to Islamic totalitarianism. Each understands that America's success means its demise.

This is a major reason why the Left so opposes anti-Islamism (just as it opposed anti-communism). In theory, the Left should be at least as opposed to the Islamists as is the Right. But the Left is preoccupied first with destroying America's distinctive values -- a Judeo-Christian society (as opposed to a secular one), capitalism (as opposed to socialism), liberty (as opposed to equality) and exceptionalism (as opposed to universalism, multiculturalism and multilateralism). So, if the Islamists are fellow anti-Americans, the Left figures it can worry about them later.

All this explains why the passions are so intense regarding same-sex marriage. Most of the activists in the movement to redefine marriage wish to overthrow the predominance of Judeo-Christian values in American life. Those who oppose same-sex marriage understand that redefining the central human institution marks the beginning of the end of Judeo-Christian civilization.

Let us understand this redefinition as clearly as possible:

With same-sex marriage, our society declares by law that mothers are unnecessary, since two men are equally ideal as mothers and as the creators of a family; and that fathers are unnecessary, since two women are equally ideal as parents and as the creators of a family.

With same-sex marriage, our society declares that there is nothing special or even necessarily desirable about a man and a woman bonding. What is sacred to the proponents of same-sex marriage is the number of people marrying (two, for the time being), not that a man and woman bond.

With same-sex marriage, when taught in school about sex, marriage and family, children will have to be taught that male-male and female-female sex, love and marriage are identical to male-female sex, love and marriage. And when asked, "Who do you think you will marry when you grow up?" thanks to the ubiquitous images of media, far more children will consider members of the same sex.

With same-sex marriage, no adoption agency will ever be able to prefer a married man and woman as prospective parents. Aside from the tragedy of denying untold numbers of children a mother and a father, this will lead to a drastic diminution in women placing children for adoption, since most of these women will prefer something that will then be illegal -- that agencies place her child with a man and woman, not with two men or two women.

With same-sex marriage, any media -- films, advertisements, greeting cards -- that only depict married couples as a woman and a man will be considered discriminatory and probably be sued.

With same-sex marriage, those religious groups that only marry men and women will be deemed beyond the pale, marginalized and ostracized.

There have been many Christian countries, and they are no longer. They have been replaced by secular countries, and they are weakening. Only American civilization remains strong, and it does so because of its unique amalgam of values rooted in Judeo-Christian morality.

This civilization is now fighting for its life -- as much here as abroad. Join the fight, or it will be gone as fast as you can say "Democrat."

FORD
03-02-2004, 02:49 PM
That is the most ridiculous arguement I ever heard.

But then Hitler sent the gays to the camps right along witrh the Jews, so why wouldn't the new Hitlers do the same :rolleyes:

BigBadBrian
03-02-2004, 04:01 PM
:stupid:

Pink Spider
03-02-2004, 04:19 PM
Are you implying the myth that this country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles?

A few quotes from the founders:


"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all." -- Thomas Paine

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it." --John Adams

"The Christian God is a being of terrific character -- cruel, vindictive, capricious, and unjust." --Thomas Jefferson

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth." --Thomas Jefferson

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." --Thomas Jefferson

"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people." --Thomas Madison

"Revealed religion has no weight with me." --Benjamin Franklin

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprize, every expanded prospect." --James Madison

Don't they all just sound like Pat Robertson to you?

steve
03-03-2004, 01:36 PM
George W. Bush is the main religious extremist I am worried about right now. He thinks he's on a mission from God - per his answers to questions regarding Afghanistan and gay marriage. He's looney. Bin Laden and folks like him a a million times worse, of course, but GW is still a religious nutcase nonetheless.

Hopefully, Howard Stern will win the Presidency, put the pope in jail where he belongs, and put a clamp down on some of the craziness :). Wow...I am only half joking.

FORD
03-03-2004, 02:23 PM
Here's reality for the Busheep...

Teachers are not terrorists. Homosexuals are not terrorists. War protestors and those otherwise opposed to the BCE's fascist agenda are not terrorists.

Here's two clues for you...

1) Oklahoma City, 4-19-95

2) Abortion clinic bombings and assassinations.

These crimes were committed by WHO, again?

Conservative religious fanatics. Which is exactly what the Muslim terrorists are.

Seems like the right wing media should be looking in the mirror, not at us.

BigBadBrian
03-03-2004, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by Pink Spider

A few quotes from the founders:



"A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus" Thomas Jefferson


Finding quotes is easy to suit your purpose, E.S. Your arguments are unconvincing and, in fact, downright silly. :gulp:

FORD
03-03-2004, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
"A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus" Thomas Jefferson


Finding quotes is easy to suit your purpose, E.S. Your arguments are unconvincing and, in fact, downright silly. :gulp:

What's even sillier is that you don't have the slightest idea of what Jefferson meant by that quote. Here's a historical fact: Jefferson actually took a razor blade and physically cut the Scriptures out of his Bible which he didn't think were the true word of God. So you certainly can't put him in the organized religion box.

And if he was indeed "a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus" then you wouldn't consider him a "Christian" by your standards, as you have often condemned me for saying the same thing (though admittedly I've never felt the need to physically alter the Bible)

ELVIS
03-03-2004, 02:42 PM
Being a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus has nothing to do with religion...

What scriptures did he cut out ?? Do you know ??

Pink Spider
03-03-2004, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
"A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus" Thomas Jefferson

If you're going by quotes, Jefferson flip-floped more than Kerry. :D

Jefferson was a Christian to the extent of beliving in the whole Jesus thing. But, he described himself as "Unitarian", the most liberal of Christian denominations. And after all, he was the one that came up with the term "Seperation of Church and State".


Finding quotes is easy to suit your purpose, E.S. Your arguments are unconvincing and, in fact, downright silly. :gulp:

Is that the best insult you have?

You've used that one before, remember?

FORD
03-03-2004, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Pink Spider
If you're going by quotes, Jefferson flip-floped more than Kerry.

My God, is that humanly possible??

BigBadBrian
03-03-2004, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by FORD
What's even sillier is that you don't have the slightest idea of what Jefferson meant by that quote. )

Actually, I do. I feel I can be relatively safe in saying I've studied the issue far more than most people. The vast majority of the "founding fathers" were not deists as the Liberal Loonies teach.

BigBadBrian
03-03-2004, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Pink Spider
If you're going by quotes, Jefferson flip-floped more than Kerry. :D

Jefferson was a Christian to the extent of beliving in the whole Jesus thing. But, he described himself as "Unitarian", the most liberal of Christian denominations. And after all, he was the one that came up with the term "Seperation of Church and State".



Is that the best insult you have?

You've used that one before, remember?

Same shit, different day. Why not recycle a response when it still applies? :gulp:

FORD
03-03-2004, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
Being a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus has nothing to do with religion...

What scriptures did he cut out ?? Do you know ??

You can read Jefferson's Bible here (http://www.narcosislabs.org/TheJeffersonBible.html)

lucky wilbury
03-03-2004, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Here's reality for the Busheep...

Teachers are not terrorists. Homosexuals are not terrorists. War protestors and those otherwise opposed to the BCE's fascist agenda are not terrorists.


as opposed to when kerry called republican terrorists.


Originally posted by FORD
Here's two clues for you...

1) Oklahoma City, 4-19-95

2) Abortion clinic bombings and assassinations.

These crimes were committed by WHO, again?

Conservative religious fanatics. Which is exactly what the Muslim terrorists are.

what about the lefties that burn medical labs? what about the lefties that burn down starbucks? what about the lefties who burn down houses they don't like? what about the lefties who target car dealerships? what about the lefties that riot at every protest? et etc etc


Originally posted by FORD
Seems like the right wing media should be looking in the mirror, not at us.

see above

ELVIS
03-03-2004, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by FORD
You can read Jefferson's Bible here (http://www.narcosislabs.org/TheJeffersonBible.html)


Nothing wrong with that...

FORD
03-03-2004, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
Nothing wrong with that...

Well, there is one thing wrong with it. You'll notice that the story ends with Jesus being laid in the tomb. So apparently Tom Jefferson believed that the story ended there. If you claim to believe in the teachings and doctrines of Jesus Christ, one of those teachings was that He would rise again on the third day. But with Jefferson cutting off the story at Christ's burial, then clearly he doesn't believe in that teaching, nor in the Resurrection, and therefore, probably doesn't believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God :(

Therefore, it wouldn't be accurate to describe him as a Christian, but as a deist who believed in good teachings from a moral leader, but nothing more. Clearly Jefferson believed in a Creator, but that's about the extent of his religion apparently.

ELVIS
03-03-2004, 08:45 PM
"So apparently Tom Jefferson believed that the story ended there."

That's a stretch...

FORD
03-03-2004, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
"So apparently Tom Jefferson believed that the story ended there."

That's a stretch...

Why would you choose to end your own "custom edition" of the Bible with the burial of Jesus Christ, unless you actually believed that was the end of the story?

diamondD
03-04-2004, 07:42 AM
Why would you keep Howard Dean in your sig if the man has dropped out of the race?

At least he accepts it. But then again, Gore accepts that he isn't president either, but that doesn't stop some people from calling him that.

Perception is one thing, delusion is another.;)

Hecubus
03-04-2004, 11:30 PM
Yeah....same sex marriages are as dangerous to American society as Al-Qaeda....

What color is the water in the shallow pool you live in?!?

Annoying? Yes. I wish they'd go the fuck away. Yes. They are giving the rest of us level headed folks here in Cali a bad name. Yes. I would like to hit Rosie O'Donnel in the face with a brick....

But that comparison is utterly ludicrous.

President Cheney & Vice Pres Bush should be concentrating on other things than trying to run the lives of every last person in this country....