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View Full Version : Why our German "Friends" Really Don't Want to Get Involved In Iraq



BigBadBrian
06-12-2005, 06:53 PM
German troops 'hid like rabbits' in Kosovo riots
By Tony Paterson in Berlin
(Filed: 09/05/2004)

German troops serving with the Kfor international peacekeeping contingent in Kosovo have been accused of hiding in barracks "like frightened rabbits" during the inter-ethnic rioting that erupted in the province in March.

A hard-hitting German police report sent to the Berlin government last week criticises the troops for cowardice and for their failure to quell the rioting in which 19 people died and about 900 others were injured.


German soldiers board a transport aircraft bound for Kosovo at the military airport of Wunstorf, Hanover

The charges - the most serious made against the German army since the Second World War - have been levelled by police officers serving with Unmik, the United Nations civil administration in Kosovo.

During the two-day riots between Albanian and Serbs, an Albanian mob burnt and looted 29 Serb churches and monasteries in the southern city of Prizren, and caused several thousand Serbs to flee their homes.

Leaked excerpts from the report on the conduct of the 3,600-strong German contingent based in Prizren disclose that Unmik police were left to fend for themselves at the height of the rioting.

"Despite continuous appeals for help from Kfor, nobody from the military appeared to back up the police," the report said. "Kfor proved to be incapable of carrying out the duties to which it has been assigned."

Further damning evidence, based on interviews with Unmik officers, Serb church leaders and unnamed UN officials in Prizren, was published in Der Spiegel magazine.

The magazine concluded: "The German soldiers ran away and hid like frightened rabbits in their barracks. They only reappeared in armoured vehicles after the Albanian mob had wreaked its havoc and left a trail of destruction."

Col Dieter Hintelmann, who heads the German Kfor contingent in Prizren, insisted that his men had simply obeyed Kfor rules of engagement. They prohibit troops from protecting buildings and allow the use of firearms only in self-defence. "We were acting exactly according to the rules," he said.

However, the Unmik officers claim that the Kfor troops had breached their rules of engagement because they failed to protect them even though they were legally bound to do so.

The allegations have come as a severe embarrassment to Gerhard Schroder's government, which in the past has gone out of its way to praise the German Kfor contingent for the role it played in the troubled province through its excellent contacts with local people.

After the rioting, Serb Orthodox church leaders in Kosovo described the German deployment in the region as a mistake, and demanded the troops withdraw.

So far, the German government has refused to acknowledge publicly the complaints made in the police report. However, the defence ministry is believed to be recommending that the law be changed, allowing soldiers to use tear gas grenades for riot control.

28 March 2004: Albanians posed as Serbs to stoke ethnic fires in Kosovo

Link (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/05/09/wkos09.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/05/09/ixworld.html)

DrMaddVibe
06-12-2005, 07:22 PM
"See how they run like pigs from a gun!"

LoungeMachine
06-12-2005, 07:49 PM
'Good and honest' Iraqis fighting US forces
Phil Sands



Tikrit, June 9, 2005 - A senior US military chief has admitted "good, honest" Iraqis are fighting American forces.

Major General Joseph Taluto said he could understand why some ordinary people would take up arms against the US military because "they're offended by our presence".

In an interview with Gulf News, he said: "If a good, honest person feels having all these Humvees driving on the road, having us moving people out of the way, having us patrol the streets, having car bombs going off, you can understand how they could [want to fight us]."

General Taluto, head of the US 42nd Infantry Division which covers key trouble spots, including Baquba and Samarra, also said some Iraqis not involved in fighting did support insurgents who avoided hurting civilians.

He said: "There is a sense of a good resistance, or an accepted resistance. They say 'okay, if you shoot a coalition soldier, that's okay, it's not a bad thing but you shouldn't kill other Iraqis.'"

However General Taluto insisted the US and other foreign forces would not be driven out of Iraq by violence. "If the goal is to have the coalition leave, attacking them isn't the way," he said. "The way to make it happen is to enter the political process cooperate and the coalition will be less aggressive and less visible and eventually it'll go away."

His comments come in stark contrast to the assertions of other top US figures, who persist in claiming all insurgents are either Baathists or Al Qaida terrorists.

General Taluto also admitted he did not know how many insurgents there were. "I stay away from numbers how can I quantify this? We can make estimates by doing some kind of guesswork," he said.

"I think there is a small core of foreign fighters. I don't know how big that is but there is some kind of capability here, and it's being replenished.

"Then there is a group of former regime personnel they're the facilitators. They make all the communications, move the money, they enable things to happen. Their goal isn't the same as the foreign fighters but they're using them to do what they want to do.

"Then we have the foot soldiers. Some are doing it for the money. Some are doing it because they're offended by our presence and believe we are a threat to their way of life. There are various levels."

He added: "Who knows how big these networks are, or how widespread? I know it's substantial enough to be a threat to the government and it will be for some time."

General Taluto said "99.9 per cent" of those captured fighting the US were Iraqis, but was also adamant most people in Iraq wanted a free, democratic and independent country.

He predicted attacks would continue to surge in intensity, as key milestones were reached, including the upcoming constitutional referendum.

kentuckyklira
06-13-2005, 03:49 AM
You know what, I was in Kosovo 3 years ago. The people there agreed on one thing, that the US forces would do anything to stay out of trouble.

The only troops the KLA showed any respect for and ran off from were the Germans, French and for whatever reason the Portuguese.

But, you have read a newspaper article, so you must be right!

DavidLeeNatra
06-13-2005, 05:55 AM
so you want the germans to march through the world again?

I was in sarajevo, too and there is a whole lot of respect for the germain soldiers (and for the american soldiers)

but they hate the british and the french who collaborated with the serbs in many ways...but as klira said...it's written so it must be true...

Nitro Express
06-13-2005, 01:17 PM
The KLA were the middlemen in the Taliban herione trade. The KLA are terrorists. We should have just let the Serbs take care of them.

The problem with the US these days is we don't know who the enemy is. We support one terrorist faction in one part of the world but then attack another. Go figure.

I lived in the middle east. The big point the Bush Administration missed is borders in the middle east don't mean much. Islam is stronger than any one country there. People would rather have an islamic dictator than to have a non-muslim occupying army in their land. Gee, didn't we learn anything from Somolia? The majority of the people don't want us there. When push comes to shove, a muslim will support another muslim they don't like over a non-muslim everytime. Good going Bush, nice you took the time to study your enemy before engaging.

Mr Grimsdale
06-13-2005, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
The KLA were the middlemen in the Taliban herione trade. The KLA are terrorists. We should have just let the Serbs take care of them.

I totally agree. It was a little internal conflict, if they want to go around settling scores let them, they weren't causing problems outside of their own borders.

Nickdfresh
06-13-2005, 03:26 PM
I don't! The SERBS were slaughtering villages and acting like NAZI savages. Of course the KLA used terrorism, but the state terrorists where trying to "ethnically cleanse" an area where the population was like 90% Muslim so the remaining 10% of SERBS could take over their lands. The resulting military action caused the SERBS to overthrow their own dictator! Tell me how that went wrong, this current Administration ought to take notes!

And, actually the TALIBAN was beginning to eradicate opium production before we invaded, it's now skyrocketing under the current KABUL gov't.

Nitro Express
06-14-2005, 03:06 AM
The KLA was actually attacking their own fellow Muslims and blaming it on the Serbs. Forensic evidence has proven this. Comparing the Serbs to the Nazis is an interesting point since the Serbs fought the Nazis during WWII. It might also be noted that there was a Muslim branch of the SS who were battling the Serbs during World War II.

I just find it interesting that people here in America think the Serbs are Nazis committing genocide against the poor KLA supporters but hate Al Quaida and The Taliban. Excuse me but the KLA were running the drugs for both organizations. Serbs never flew airliners into office buildings or cry "Death to America". Just funny how people take what they see in the news for face value and cannot connect the dots.

All I can say is war is hell. Most of us have had the luxery not to live in a warzone. All I can say is war is an eye for an eye. Read about Guadalcanal. Nice American boys from Mayberry were soon cutting off Japanese heads and keeping them as trophies. Attrocities generated by the enemy have a way of generating the same kind of payback. That's war.

Nickdfresh
06-14-2005, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
The KLA was actually attacking their own fellow Muslims and blaming it on the Serbs. Forensic evidence has proven this.

Um...Satellite imagery "proved" SERB military units were slaughtering and raising villages...:rolleyes:


[b]Comparing the Serbs to the Nazis is an interesting point since the Serbs fought the Nazis during WWII. It might also be noted that there was a Muslim branch of the SS who were battling the Serbs during World War II.

I just find it interesting that people here in America think the Serbs are Nazis committing genocide against the poor KLA supporters but hate Al Quaida and The Taliban. Excuse me but the KLA were running the drugs for both organizations. Serbs never flew airliners into office buildings or cry "Death to America". Just funny how people take what they see in the news for face value and cannot connect the dots.


Well, maybe you missed this thread (http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22305)...They've been doing their best impression, until MILOSEVIC was toppled that is...

STALIN fought the NAZIs too. I don't recall him being nominated for humanitarian of the year status.