Hagel [R] Says Were Losing in Iraq

[LoungeMachine]

Give truth a try




Chuck Hagel is a conservative Republican senator from the thoroughly red state of Nebraska.

He is also apparently sick and tired of White House efforts to mislead the American people about the Bush administration's reckless and inept handling of the war in Iraq.

The latest egregious example was Vice President Dick Cheney's recent assertion that the Iraqi insurgency is in its "last throes."

The facts, of course, are that Iraq is racked by daily bombings and terrorist mayhem. More than 1,700 American military personnel have been killed, and almost 13,000 have been wounded. The cost of the war is nearing $250 billion.

"Things aren't getting better; they're getting worse," Sen. Hagel told U.S. News and World Report magazine. "The White House is completely disconnected from reality. It's like they're just making it up as they go along. The reality is that we're losing in Iraq."

Sen. Hagel isn't the only disillusioned Bush supporter. Republican Sens. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island have expressed concern. Two GOP House members co-sponsored a bill calling for a quick withdrawal plan. And polls show public support for Mr. Bush's handling of the war sliding toward 40 percent.

This is dangerous. Even those who think the war was a mistake should realize that a precipitous U.S. departure would be a disaster -- plunging Iraq into civil war and creating a chaotic haven for terrorists.

Yet, this could happen if political and public support for a U.S. role in Iraq collapses.

The President is said to be preparing a public relations blitz on Iraq.

But if he wants Americans to understand the urgency of staying the course, he must level with them about the mistakes of the past and the perils of the present.

It will be hard for the President to tell the truth. But he has already tried everything else.

[ODShowtime]

nah, the truth is overrated

[ct2kc1111]

Hollywood, Ca.- Exterior-Day- A TV station with a pretty boy sitting in a makeup chair.

(Voice-over on intercom)

"Senator HAGEL, We're ready for your closeup!"

Chuck Hagel a "Conservative"!?

I'll trade ya Joe Lieberman straight up for him and we'll throw in Linc Chafee for good measure... no wait, Chafee about to get his ass handed to him in The GOP primary in RI.... never mind

[FORD]

Originally posted by ct2kc1111
Hollywood, Ca.- Exterior-Day- A TV station with a pretty boy sitting in a makeup chair.

(Voice-over on intercom)

"Senator HAGEL, We're ready for your closeup!"

Chuck Hagel a "Conservative"!?

I'll trade ya Joe Lieberman straight up for him and we'll throw in Linc Chafee for good measure...

As long as we get Hagel's ES&S voting machines, it's a deal.

[Cathedral]

We need a "deadline" on the table that says the troops leave within a year.
If the Iraqi's don't step up their own progress in that period then they're on their own, and we send them a bill for services rendered.

If that doesn't get them focused nothing will and we'll save a lot of our soldiers lives in the process.

1 year, then that's it, we're gone and let fate take over.

[ct2kc1111]

As much as putting a deadline for pulling all the troops out would be great in a perfect world, we don't live in a world that operates that way. If we did that, all Al-Quaeda and the terrorists/insurgents would do is go underground and wait it out and tear them up as soon as our troops exit. Ask the Israelis, Arafat made a career that way, may he rest/burn in Hell! We lost VietNAm because the Communists saw the unrest back home and used that to divide and conquer. Effectively, it worked and if we want a similar outcome, then pull out.

[FORD]

Originally posted by ct2kc1111
We lost VietNAm because the Communists saw the unrest back home and used that to divide and conquer.

Bullshit.

We "lost" Vietnam because there was nothing to win, and no way to win it.

Exactly the same as Iraq.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by ct2kc1111
As much as putting a deadline for pulling all the troops out would be great in a perfect world, we don't live in a world that operates that way. If we did that, all Al-Quaeda and the terrorists/insurgents would do is go underground and wait it out and tear them up as soon as our troops exit. Ask the Israelis, Arafat made a career that way, may he rest/burn in Hell! We lost VietNAm because the Communists saw the unrest back home and used that to divide and conquer. Effectively, it worked and if we want a similar outcome, then pull out.


I disagree, what we can't afford is the blood and monetary cost of this war at this point.
If our Generals had been allowed to do their job from day 1, then we wouldn't even be in the position we are today...and I believe that 100%.

It was thought that this war would be a cakewalk, and that was a grave error from the start.

Unless we want to double up the troops now and do a clean sweep from one end to the other, a deadline is the only way to salvage this war and bring it to an quick end.
Understand that i don't believe a clean sweep is possible to begin with, not at this juncture.

I supported removing Saddam, i believe we owed the Iraqi's that much. but they haven't taken full advantage of their opportunity and that just sucks.
Thing is, unless they do stand up for themselves in larger numbers it won't matter how long the troops are there, they will still get over run by the insurgents the moment they leave.

A deadline would save lives because it eliminates the bubble that the troops will be there indefinately.
And if they still don't stand up for themselves then fuck 'em.

I consider our debt to them paid in full...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Cathedral
We need a "deadline" on the table that says the troops leave within a year.
If the Iraqi's don't step up their own progress in that period then they're on their own, and we send them a bill for services rendered.

If that doesn't get them focused nothing will and we'll save a lot of our soldiers lives in the process.

1 year, then that's it, we're gone and let fate take over.


We've been saying the exact same thing in here for months, Cat.

And there is no argument against it anymore.

Too bad Chimpy told the world we'll be there past 2008.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ct2kc1111
As much as putting a deadline for pulling all the troops out would be great in a perfect world, we don't live in a world that operates that way. If we did that, all Al-Quaeda and the terrorists/insurgents would do is go underground and wait it out and tear them up as soon as our troops exit. .

Utter bullshit.

But let's for the sake of argument, weak as it is, go by your scenario.......

Then the ONLY way we can "win" is to stay until we have killed and/or captured EVERY single "terrorist"

Why don't you ask Israel how that theory pans out :rolleyes:

Besides, mensa........they're recruiting and arming "terrorists" faster than even we can kill them.

In a war of attrition, we lose.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
We've been saying the exact same thing in here for months, Cat.

And there is no argument against it anymore.

Too bad Chimpy told the world we'll be there past 2008.

But on the other hand, it may not be too bad.
It may well add steam to the train that yanks his ass out of office.
Especially with his Patriot Act addendum.

I can't help but think he became a Dictator with that move.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ct2kc1111
Hollywood, Ca.- Exterior-Day- A TV station with a pretty boy sitting in a makeup chair.

(Voice-over on intercom)

"Senator HAGEL, We're ready for your closeup!"

...

Welcome to the wonderful world of pre-satellite feeds....

If only you knew what those politicians did before they knew the cameras were rolling, and before their cue to look at the camera, and be stately...

I've seen William Jefferson CLINTON raving and act as if he was about to beat the shit out of a studio crew member. I've heard George H.W. Bush talk about taking enough prescription medication to put down a race horse (with Larry KING), and I've seen Ronald REAGAN act bewildered and also (in different, earlier film) crack some pretty raw, and funny, jokes....

Oh, if they could legally get away with making a DVD of all the "pre-feeds" that politicians of all parties don't want you to see...

[vheddyrmv8]

You know, maybe leaving them alone isn't the worst thing. America wouldn't be here if we didn't have the Revolutionary and Civil wars.

America tries to play God too much and they invade countries like Iraq and Vietnam when they didn't do anything to us. If countries are gonna fight, we have to let them. People will die, it's sad, but OUR people will die for a war we shouldn't even be involved in.

While we try to "win" in Iraq, a man lurks out there who killed thousands of Americans on 9/11. That's just not right. If we could find Saddam, we can find Bin Laden.

[stringfelowhawk]

we can find Bin Laden.


That would be bad for business. Ask Haliburton how they feel about losing all that money they don't earn not supporting the efforts in Cheneyland which we now call "Iraq". Why don't we just call it Mesopatamia and make these two assclowns that run our government king and queen of that "new, old" country and just cut our ties? That's 3 birds right there. Of course, if we did that they would just lie to the "Mesopatamians" and convince them to invade America so they could secure their future without having to worry about American agression but what they'd really mean is they want our economical riches for themselves.

Say, now there's a thought!


"STRINGFELLOW HAWK FOR PRESIDENT IN 08"
I'll choose Jon Stewart as my V.P. and we'll fix social security in two weeks. We'll fix medical care by the end of the first month we are in office. We'll re-write this un-godly tax code to favor the people who deserve it. We'll outlaw lobbying to anybody on anything regarding everything. Haliburton will be sanctioned like a third world country trying to steal food. Government contractors who don't live up to their bids like Northrup Gruman, Boeing, Raytheon, etc, especially the ones with long term R&D contracts for futuristic weapons like ships etc will be held accountable. We will not tolerate paying $11,000 for a laptop that's worth $500 anymore. Folks, don't ask. I can't tell you but I saw this with my own two eyes. Anybody involved with that money pit that is known as the Consolidated Automated Support System (CASS) or as we "in the know call it" "CAN'T ACTUALLY SUPPORT SHIT"! We could have paid off even Bush's inflated national debt with the money spent on that pile of "politically connected, green lit peice of shit"!
We will go door to door to collect votes. You will no longer have to stand in line for 4 years to cast your vote on a machine that's gonna change it for you anyway.
We'll legalize M.J. for medicinal and recreational purposes but if you're busted with other drugs you're through. We'll leave special interests with the special people who think they matter. They won't be heard. Any questionable donation will be returned. We'll make sure that vets promised med care for life actually gets it. We won't buy supplies from companies with exclusive contracts that makes them the only supplier which they believe gives them the right to mark up profit by 1000%. (Don't ask. I could boggle your mind on the price we have to pay for things like printer paper or pens) We'll make sure any politician caught breakin the law goes to jail and is forced to resign. I don't care if its jay walkin. Our first order of business will be prosecuting everyone in the current administration for every crime they've committed. Can't freak the Busheep out so we'll make sure he gets his noon banana and nap on time. Oil will be a thing of the past. We'll put Bin Laden in the cell next to him so they can be close to each other being old friends and all. If you're here illegally then you're going home. Wanna be a citizen? Learn our language and enlist for 2 years. Then you've earned it. Mexico is on its own. Their army crosses our border again and it's considered an act of war. We sell Canada to France to fund our border patrol police force. Turn Israel over to fend for itself. We bring every body home. We'll trade fairly with the world but keep our nose out of worldly affairs unless it directly affects our economy or security. Then when everyone sees we're tired of being begged to help and spit on for doing it, we'll ever so eloquently say, "FUCK YOU!"

"WAIT! WHAT'S THAT YOU SAY FRANCE? YOU'RE BEING ATTACKED BY AN UNRULY 9 YEAR OLD WITH A SLINGSHOT? TELL ME AGAIN HOW TO SAY, I SURRENDER, IN FRENCH!"

Yeah! Our foreign policy needs a little work but I think we're on to something here. Hey at least our "State Of The Union" address would be entertaining and sarcastic. We'll stop being so bleak and use our "Fire side Chats" for interesting shit like telling ghost stories and making smores. We'll paint the White House like the Rolling Stones "Pain It Black". I'll film myself banging Madonna on the presidential desk and sell it to fund AIDS research or we'll just take some of her blood for antibodies. We'll even get Classic Van Halen to play the inauguration party! Of course we'd also abolish the "two party" rule which is the reason our country is in such shit now.

Our campaign motto could be something cheesy like all the rest are:

"Impeach this incompetent king!"
"Foreward progress starts with String!"

[FORD]

You got my vote, if you drop the "Sell Canada to France" thing. Sell them Quebec if you have to, but I don't want to learn to speak French just to go to BC

[Angel]

Originally posted by FORD
You got my vote, if you drop the "Sell Canada to France" thing. Sell them Quebec if you have to, but I don't want to learn to speak French just to go to BC

FUCK YOU FORD. For one thing, you can't sell what you don't own, and two... Quebec is the most important province in the history of this fucking country... :(

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Angel
FUCK YOU FORD. For one thing, you can't sell what you don't own,

Ohhh.....we own you. You just don't know it.

Maybe we'll sell you to Mexico.

:D