France gets nuclear fusion plant

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  • Mr Grimsdale
    ROTH ARMY SUPREME
    • Jan 2004
    • 9485

    France gets nuclear fusion plant

    France gets nuclear fusion plant
    France will get to host the project to build a 10bn-euro (£6.6bn) nuclear fusion reactor, in the face of strong competition from Japan.
    The International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (Iter) will be the most expensive joint scientific project after the International Space Station.

    The Iter programme was held up for over 18 months as parties tried to broker a deal between the two rivals.

    Nuclear fusion taps energy from reactions like those that heat the Sun.

    Nuclear fusion is seen as a cleaner approach to power production than nuclear fission and fossil fuels.

    Officials from a six-party consortium signed the deal in Moscow on Tuesday, for the reactor's location at the Cadarache site in southern France.

    Janez Potocnik, EU commissioner for science and research, said that Iter "marks a major step forward in international science cooperation".

    He added: "Now that we have reached consensus on the site for Iter, we will make all efforts to finalise the agreement on the project, so that construction can begin as soon as possible."

    Rich reward

    The European Union, the United States, Russia, Japan, South Korea and China are partners in the project.

    Japan earlier withdrew its bid, after a deal was worked out for the "runner-up" to receive a generous concessions package.

    According to the package, Japan will get 20% of the project's 200 research posts while providing only 10% of the expenses, and host a related materials research facility - of which half the construction costs will be shouldered by the EU.

    French President Jacques Chirac thanked member countries of the European Union, as well as Russia and China, who crucially lent their support to the French bid: "It is a big success for France, for Europe and for all the partners of Iter," he said in a statement.

    Prof Sir Chris Llewellyn Smith, director of UK Atomic Energy Authority's (UKAEA) Culham division, which is responsible for the UK's thermonuclear fusion programme, called the decision "wonderful news".

    "Rapid construction of Iter will be a major step in the development of fusion as a potential large-scale source of electricity that will not contribute to climate change," he added.

    Earthbound star

    The Cadarache site lies about 60km (37 miles) inland from Marseille, and has been a nuclear research centre ever since president Charles de Gaulle launched France's atomic energy programme in 1959.

    Local politicians were delighted by the announcement, because it will guarantee thousands of jobs over the coming years.

    However, some environmental groups are doubtful about the viability of nuclear fusion, and have warned that Cadarache lies on a known earthquake faultline. The management at Cadarache insists there is no risk to existing or future installations.

    In terms of the physics and huge amounts of energy involved, the Iter project would be akin to building a star on Earth.

    It would be the first fusion device to produce thermal energy at the level of conventional electricity-producing power stations, and would pave the way for the first prototype commercial power station.

    In a fusion reaction, energy is produced when light atoms - the hydrogen isotopes deuterium and tritium - are fused together to form heavier atoms.

    To use controlled fusion reactions on Earth as an energy source, it is necessary to heat a gas to temperatures exceeding 100 million Celsius - many times hotter than the centre of the Sun.

    The technical requirements to do this, which scientists have spent decades developing, are immense. But the rewards, if Iter can be made to work successfully, are extremely attractive.

    One kilogram of fusion fuel would produce the same amount of energy as 10,000,000 kg of fossil fuel.

    Fusion does produce radioactive waste but not the volumes of long-term high-level radiotoxic materials that have so burdened nuclear fission.
    Originally posted by flappo
    i'm sure grimsdale's on drugs

    Originally posted by Cato
    translating your Japanese.


    "Master Cato is...I order, it's yours. don't ask me to do gay material for the life of me because you kick my bat."

    omae baka dana?
  • BigBadBrian
    TOASTMASTER GENERAL
    • Jan 2004
    • 10625

    #2
    Good for France. Let's hope this works out.

    “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

    Comment

    • Mr Grimsdale
      ROTH ARMY SUPREME
      • Jan 2004
      • 9485

      #3
      Hey, it's good for everyone that finally something is getting done on this. A fusion plant that generates more energy than it uses will be a big achievement for the world.
      Originally posted by flappo
      i'm sure grimsdale's on drugs

      Originally posted by Cato
      translating your Japanese.


      "Master Cato is...I order, it's yours. don't ask me to do gay material for the life of me because you kick my bat."

      omae baka dana?

      Comment

      • Seshmeister
        ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

        • Oct 2003
        • 35196

        #4
        What happens to a fusion reactor when all the people running it go on strike?

        Comment

        • knuckleboner
          Crazy Ass Mofo
          • Jan 2004
          • 2927

          #5
          Originally posted by Seshmeister
          What happens to a fusion reactor when all the people running it go on strike?
          you split everything up and turn it fission...



          this is good. i'm fine with old school nuclear reactors. yes, you have to deal with the waste. but they don't kill people like the air pollutants in coal-fired reactors.

          but there's much less of an argument against a workable fusion reator.

          Comment

          • Mr Grimsdale
            ROTH ARMY SUPREME
            • Jan 2004
            • 9485

            #6
            Originally posted by Seshmeister
            What happens to a fusion reactor when all the people running it go on strike?
            oops, so maybe it should have been built in japan
            Originally posted by flappo
            i'm sure grimsdale's on drugs

            Originally posted by Cato
            translating your Japanese.


            "Master Cato is...I order, it's yours. don't ask me to do gay material for the life of me because you kick my bat."

            omae baka dana?

            Comment

            • Nickdfresh
              SUPER MODERATOR

              • Oct 2004
              • 49205

              #7
              Originally posted by knuckleboner
              you split everything up and turn it fission...



              this is good. i'm fine with old school nuclear reactors. yes, you have to deal with the waste. but they don't kill people like the air pollutants in coal-fired reactors.

              but there's much less of an argument against a workable fusion reator.
              The only problem here is, what happens if one of these things goes up?

              From what I've read, it would make CHERNOBYL and THREE MILE ISLAND look like trash fires.

              Comment

              • DLR'sCock
                Crazy Ass Mofo
                • Jan 2004
                • 2937

                #8
                This is good news.

                Comment

                • knuckleboner
                  Crazy Ass Mofo
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 2927

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Nickdfresh
                  The only problem here is, what happens if one of these things goes up?

                  From what I've read, it would make CHERNOBYL and THREE MILE ISLAND look like trash fires.
                  eh...three mile island killed no one.

                  pollution from coal-fired plants does kill people each year.

                  nuclear power (fission) currently supplies like 20% of the U.S.'s power. with zero deaths attributed to it, as long as we keep (and ideally improve) our current level of safety, i'm happy.

                  same should hold true for fusion plants.

                  Comment

                  • Mr Grimsdale
                    ROTH ARMY SUPREME
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 9485

                    #10
                    From what I understand if a fusion reactor "goes up" I wouldn't expect anything other than localised damage (probably anything within 1000km hahaah just kidding). The fusion reaction is only sustained because the plasma is contained within a strong magnetic field at a very high temperature, as soon as either or both of those move away from their optimum value the process stops. That is essentially why the worlds scientists have found it so difficult to achieve.

                    That's just my understanding so if any of you know different let me know!
                    Originally posted by flappo
                    i'm sure grimsdale's on drugs

                    Originally posted by Cato
                    translating your Japanese.


                    "Master Cato is...I order, it's yours. don't ask me to do gay material for the life of me because you kick my bat."

                    omae baka dana?

                    Comment

                    • knuckleboner
                      Crazy Ass Mofo
                      • Jan 2004
                      • 2927

                      #11
                      but think of the potential deuterium release!!!

                      Comment

                      • DLR'sCock
                        Crazy Ass Mofo
                        • Jan 2004
                        • 2937

                        #12
                        FUSION would solve the worlds energy problems, and I don't think the oil companies would like that....

                        Comment

                        • Nickdfresh
                          SUPER MODERATOR

                          • Oct 2004
                          • 49205

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Mr Grimsdale
                          From what I understand if a fusion reactor "goes up" I wouldn't expect anything other than localised damage (probably anything within 1000km hahaah just kidding). The fusion reaction is only sustained because the plasma is contained within a strong magnetic field at a very high temperature, as soon as either or both of those move away from their optimum value the process stops. That is essentially why the worlds scientists have found it so difficult to achieve.

                          That's just my understanding so if any of you know different let me know!
                          You may be correct; but I thought I heard one of the reasons fusion reactors have not been pushed harder in the passed is that they can take out the neighborhood, and most of the city around it, if they go tits-up.

                          Comment

                          • Nitro Express
                            DIAMOND STATUS
                            • Aug 2004
                            • 32798

                            #14
                            My uncle spent his whole adult life studying fusion at the Los Alamos labs in New Mexico. He graduated in the top 1% at MIT then eventually got his PHD. He taught at both Harvard and MIT but didn't like teaching much. He hired on at Los Alamos and spend almost 40 years there.

                            He said containing the imense heat was the huge problem and I remember years ago, he mentioned they were trying to use a magnetic field to contain the reaction.
                            No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                            Comment

                            • Mr Grimsdale
                              ROTH ARMY SUPREME
                              • Jan 2004
                              • 9485

                              #15
                              They still use a magnetic field (unless it's any of the cold fusion nonsense), check out the work at the Joint European Torus (near Oxford) or Princeton, there's another facility in Japan somewhere. The difference is that this new reactor should generate more energy than it uses to maintain the temperatures and magnetic field.
                              Last edited by Mr Grimsdale; 06-29-2005, 02:53 PM.
                              Originally posted by flappo
                              i'm sure grimsdale's on drugs

                              Originally posted by Cato
                              translating your Japanese.


                              "Master Cato is...I order, it's yours. don't ask me to do gay material for the life of me because you kick my bat."

                              omae baka dana?

                              Comment

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