4th of July is Independence Day

[Steve Savicki]

What is independence for those Americans in Iraq? Is what they're doing over them symbolizing what the United States stands for?

Sorry, my mind is so full of thoughts that even I don't know how to answer this own question of mine at the moment.

I just hope everyone can enjoy their weekend despite the president's speech which may ruin it for some.
And a "stay safe" to all those in Iraq, especially Sarge... 2006 keeps getting closer by the moment.

[DrMaddVibe]

That is a quandry.

I'd really like to know when the Iraqis are going to jump in and start cleaning their own streets of the rubbish that think its fine to set up roadside bombs!

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
That is a quandry.

I'd really like to know when the Iraqis are going to jump in and start cleaning their own streets of the rubbish that think its fine to set up roadside bombs!

Don't hold your breath...

[bueno bob]

Re: 4th of July is Independence Day

Originally posted by Steve Savicki
What is independence for those Americans in Iraq? Is what they're doing over them symbolizing what the United States stands for?

And what exactly DOES the U.S. stand for? Once that's been answered, I'll probably have a better response...

[Steve Savicki]

The United States symbolizes a country where European settlers would immigrate and start their own business, hence the word "independence."
Do you think that if you work for someone else that you get payed more than your employer? The answer is probably no. The answer is no because nobody makes more than the business owner because that's what America was founded on, that colonists would establish their own independence.

But going into Iraq isn't about the United States at all. In fact, Iraq is another country altogether.

[Big Train]

Interesting...but I counter that via economics, we "own" several other countries, for example Labor (Mexico) and Raw Materials (Canada...I know you Canucks will have something to say, I'm speaking SOLELY in economic terms here).

If your question is the 4th's equivalent of "the true meaning of Christmas", you'll get a thousand different responses with a thousand different points. Is this the question?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Big Train
Interesting...but I counter that via economics, we "own" several other countries, for example Labor (Mexico) and Raw Materials (Canada...I know you Canucks will have something to say, I'm speaking SOLELY in economic terms here).

If your question is the 4th's equivalent of "the true meaning of Christmas", you'll get a thousand different responses with a thousand different points. Is this the question?

We're also largely exporting our natural resources, not so much finished products.

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
That is a quandry.

I'd really like to know when the Iraqis are going to jump in and start cleaning their own streets of the rubbish that think its fine to set up roadside bombs!

They´re trying to keep their country from being robbed of its resources. If roadside bombs is all they´ve got, so be it!

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
That is a quandry.

I'd really like to know when the Iraqis are going to jump in and start cleaning their own streets of the rubbish that think its fine to set up roadside bombs!

That's why i think we should start talking of pulling out.
I expected more fight from the citizens by this point in time and it just hasn't materialized at all.
All the Iraqi's that turned out to vote needed to pick up a gun after getting the "Blue Thumb" and start taking care of business.

But they didn't, and i don't see it happening anytime soon, either.

If they don't care any more than what i have seen, Fuck Them!

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Cathedral
That's why i think we should start talking of pulling out.
I expected more fight from the citizens by this point in time and it just hasn't materialized at all.
All the Iraqi's that turned out to vote needed to pick up a gun after getting the "Blue Thumb" and start taking care of business.

But they didn't, and i don't see it happening anytime soon, either.

If they don't care any more than what i have seen, Fuck Them!

Yeah, but you also have to watch out that shit doesn't explode over there and someone/some group worse than Saddam grabs power of the country.

It's a damned if we do, damned if we don't situation right now and I wonder if many people actually realize that. We just can't leave and likewise we can't stay there forever.

I say ween them off, but still keep an overall watch and work in the areas where the insurgents are strong -- if that makes any sense.

Another thing I would say is to get some undercovers to try to work into these networks that are attacking to gather info and the like. I'm sure we prob have something like that going on being kept on the d/l, at least i hope.

[Steve Savicki]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
It's a damned if we do, damned if we don't situation right now

Yeah, "right now" are the key words. Did it have to be that way?

[Ally_Kat]

steve, it was that way even before anyone mentioned WMDs or invading Iraq.

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
steve, it was that way even before anyone mentioned WMDs or invading Iraq.

You mean back when Rummy and Saddam were happily in bed together?

[Redballjets88]

hey germany has always been in bed with saddam

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Yeah, but you also have to watch out that shit doesn't explode over there and someone/some group worse than Saddam grabs power of the country.

It's a damned if we do, damned if we don't situation right now and I wonder if many people actually realize that. We just can't leave and likewise we can't stay there forever.

I say ween them off, but still keep an overall watch and work in the areas where the insurgents are strong -- if that makes any sense.

Another thing I would say is to get some undercovers to try to work into these networks that are attacking to gather info and the like. I'm sure we prob have something like that going on being kept on the d/l, at least i hope.

If the Iraqi's don't stand up for themselves like they did on election day, everyday, we will be there forever.
They have got to be made to understand that, so if we really start talking "EXIT" strategy, they will begin to see the need to seize the opportunity in perhaps a more desperate fashion.

They understand the nature of an opressive regime way better than we do, it's up to them to decide their future because even with all our might, we can't insure what they won't fight for.
No government that rises will stand if the people don't fight to protect it anyway.
You're right though, it is damned if we do, damned if we don't.
But staying there forever is NOT an option, so we need to light a fire under the Iraqi's and give them a "The Time Is Of The Essence" kind of mental thought pattern to digest.

Our soldiers are doing way more great things than any of us learn about from our media, that much i know to be fact. the details about those are few because good news doesn't get ratings or sell papers.

Bush said, as they stand up, we'll stand down....That is EXACTLY what needs to happen, and it's very late in coming to pass.