The Left doesn't support the troops and should admit it

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  • BigBadBrian
    TOASTMASTER GENERAL
    • Jan 2004
    • 10625

    The Left doesn't support the troops and should admit it

    The Left doesn't support the troops and should admit it
    Dennis Prager


    July 12, 2005


    Liberals, Democrats and others on the Left frequently state that they "support the troops." For most of them, whether they realize it or not, this is not true. They feel they must say this because the majority of Americans would find any other position unacceptable. Indeed, for most liberals, the thought that they really do not support the troops is unacceptable even to them.

    Lest this argument be dismissed as an attack on leftist Americans' patriotism, let it be clear that leftists' patriotism is not the issue here. Their honesty is.

    In order to understand this, we need to first have a working definition of the term "support the troops." Presumably it means that one supports what the troops are doing and rooting for them to succeed. What else could "support the troops" mean? If you say, for example, that you support the Yankees or the Dodgers, we assume it means you want them to win.

    But most of the Left does not want the troops to win in Iraq. The Left's message is this: "You troops may think you are winning; you may think you are doing good and moral things in Iraq; you may believe you are fighting the worst human beings of our age and protecting us against the scourge of Islamic terror. But we on the Left believe none of that. We believe this war is being fought for oil and for Halliburton and other corporations; we believe you are waging a war that is both illegal and immoral; we believe you have invaded a country for no good reason and have killed a hundred thousand Iraqis [the Left's generally mentioned number] for no good reason; but, hey, we sure do support you."

    Honest people on the Left need to understand that the two positions are not reconcilable. A German citizen during World War II could not have argued: "The Nazi regime's army is engaged in an evil war of aggression and is slaughtering millions of innocent people, and I therefore completely oppose this war, but I sure do support the Nazi troops."

    One example is the claim made by Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry and almost all other Democrats and liberals that the war in Iraq is "the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time." How does one support troops that are fighting a wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time? A few leftist writers have been honest enough to say, "Nothing personal, guys, but I sure don't support you." But the vast majority of the Left and all Democratic politicians have not been honest on this matter.

    A second example is the oft-repeated line, found on liberal bumper stickers, "War is not the answer." Aside from the idiocy of this claim -- war has solved slavery, ended the Holocaust, destroyed Japanese Fascism, preserved half the Korean peninsula from near-genocide, and saved Israel from extinction, among other noble achievements -- the claim offers no support to those who do engage in war.

    How could one believe that "war is not the answer" and also claim to "support the troops," the very people waging what is "not the answer"? The answer is, by being dishonest.

    A third example is the Left's opposition to military recruitment on most of the elite and many other college campuses. So deep is leftist disdain for troops that most on the Left regard the mere presence of military personnel on a university campus as a form of contamination. Yet, the Left claims to "support the troops."

    Many on the Left express far more contempt than support for the troops.

    A Democratic senator compares our interrogators to the Nazis and Communist torturers; the head of Amnesty International in America defends likening Guantanamo Bay to the Gulag; and liberals routinely speak of troops as coming from the lowest socio-economic rungs of society (maybe that's one reason they oppose recruiters on campuses, lest the best educated actually join the military). But, hey, the Left supports the troops.

    An honest leftist would say: "Because I view this war as immoral, I cannot support our troops." What is not honest is their saying, "Support the troops -- bring them home." Supporting people who wish to fight entails supporting their fight; and if that fight is opposed, those waging it are also opposed.

    Many on the Left angrily accuse the Right of disparaging their patriotism. That charge, too, is false. I have never heard a mainstream conservative impugn the patriotism of liberals. But as regards their attitude toward our troops, the patriotism of those on the Left is not the issue. The issue is their honesty.

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    “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush
  • LoungeMachine
    DIAMOND STATUS
    • Jul 2004
    • 32576

    #2
    Re: The Left doesn't support the troops and should admit it

    Originally posted by BigBadBrian



    But most of the Left does not want the troops to win in Iraq. The Left's message is this: "You troops may think you are winning; you may think you are doing good and moral things in Iraq; you may believe you are fighting the worst human beings of our age and protecting us against the scourge of Islamic terror. But we on the Left believe none of that. We believe this war is being fought for oil and for Halliburton and other corporations; we believe you are waging a war that is both illegal and immoral; we believe you have invaded a country for no good reason and have killed a hundred thousand Iraqis [the Left's generally mentioned number] for no good reason; but, hey, we sure do support you."

    Yeah.

    Why must this be mutually exclusive?

    I wholeheartedly wish them success, and a safe speedy return, AND I think they are there for oil and profits....not by THEIR choice.

    I can only speak for myself though. I dont wish them failure, however I do wish the demise of the people who sent them there under false pretenses.

    I support the troops, just not the administration, nor it's corporate profieers.

    Having said that, I also don't feel they CAN "win" this thing. They COULD have if they had planned it right perhaps, but we've now put our troops in a situation where "winning" is almost impossible. The "insurgents" are recruiting and importing faster than we can kill and/or incarcerate.

    Originally posted by Kristy
    Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
    Originally posted by cadaverdog
    I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

    Comment

    • LoungeMachine
      DIAMOND STATUS
      • Jul 2004
      • 32576

      #3
      Re: The Left doesn't support the troops and should admit it

      Originally posted by BigBadBrian


      Many on the Left angrily accuse the Right of disparaging their patriotism. That charge, too, is false. I have never heard a mainstream conservative impugn the patriotism of liberals.



      BULLSHIT.

      Ann The Man, Rush, Hannity, they have ALL impugned the patriotism of the "Left"

      What a crock of shit
      Originally posted by Kristy
      Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
      Originally posted by cadaverdog
      I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

      Comment

      • Nickdfresh
        SUPER MODERATOR

        • Oct 2004
        • 49205

        #4
        I support the troops by not wanting them to die in a stupid oil war...

        Now here's a Neo CON asshole who doesn't support the troops...

        Comment

        • thome
          ROTH ARMY ELITE
          • Mar 2005
          • 6678

          #5
          Re: Re: The Left doesn't support the troops and should admit it

          Originally posted by LoungeMachine
          Yeah.

          Why must this be mutually exclusive?

          I wholeheartedly wish them success, and a safe speedy return, AND I think they are there for oil and profits....not by THEIR choice.

          I can only speak for myself though. I dont wish them failure, however I do wish the demise of the people who sent them there under false pretenses.

          I support the troops, just not the administration, nor it's corporate profieers.

          Having said that, I also don't feel they CAN "win" this thing. They COULD have if they had planned it right perhaps, but we've now put our troops in a situation where "winning" is almost impossible. The "insurgents" are recruiting and importing faster than we can kill and/or incarcerate.

          There are noble causes to Fight for i believe this action is. My OP

          You are mature enough to know nothing takes place anywhere in
          THIS WORLD with out Money (in the hugest way you can think of) completely dominating all scenarios.
          So you are correct yet somewhat nieve to the justification .My OP

          Comment

          • ODShowtime
            ROCKSTAR

            • Jun 2004
            • 5812

            #6
            Re: Re: The Left doesn't support the troops and should admit it

            Originally posted by LoungeMachine
            Having said that, I also don't feel they CAN "win" this thing. They COULD have if they had planned it right perhaps, but we've now put our troops in a situation where "winning" is almost impossible. The "insurgents" are recruiting and importing faster than we can kill and/or incarcerate.
            BBB is one person who should understand that it's the politicians' fault for starting the war, and for conducting it in an incompetent manner. Given our firepower, it was obvious we could destroy the Iraqi Army. But we let them melt back into society. Whose fault was that? Not the soldiers' fault. And anyone with common sense knows that. We never even trained these guys for anti-insurgency! Hell, Marines were patrolling for the first year. That's retarded!

            These are my favorite kind of articles you post. Where some idoit tries to pidgeon hole anyone who isn't in lockstep with The Party. It's bullshit as usual. And I'm sure you don't have anything worthwhile to say about it.
            Last edited by ODShowtime; 07-12-2005, 10:53 AM.
            gnaw on it

            Comment

            • knuckleboner
              Crazy Ass Mofo
              • Jan 2004
              • 2927

              #7
              i definitely don't find it hard to support the troops and oppose the war.

              here's how it goes:

              i respect the all volunteer army. these are men and women that have volunarially taken jobs that place their own lives at risk so that they can protect me. that alone deserves my unqualified support.

              i understand, and agree with the principal that we don't let the military personnel make the decisions about which actions they should partake in and which they don't want to. there is a civilian command structure, accountable to the electorate, that makes the decisions.

              i can choose to disagree with the decision that the command structure makes, without openly opposing the troops.

              do i wish the troops didn't invade iraq? yes. do i hope they are "beaten" by the insurgants? of course not. i hope every single one of our troops makes it back here safely.

              for the vietnam war, people opposed the war and opposed the troops. called them names. spat on them; gave them absolutely no respect.

              my mom was a navy intensive care nurse in the states. she got the now-maimed teenagers coming back. she was told by her superiors NOT to wear her uniform to work, because of the general discord towards the military.

              today, most people, liberals and conservatives alike, look admiringly at the troops. any sporting event that recognizes military personnel gets resounding standing ovations.

              we may not all agree that particular sacrifices were necessary. yet most of us (from both sides of the aisle) understand how lucky America is to have people willing to sign up for a job that may require that sacrifice.

              Comment

              • UGS
                Head Fluffer
                • Jan 2005
                • 491

                #8
                Supporting the troops as human beings is much different from supporting their mission. Only a complete moron is unable to distinguish the two.

                It's like that old saying "I love my country, not my government"
                Keep on Rothing in the Free World

                Comment

                • academic punk
                  Full Member Status

                  • Dec 2004
                  • 4437

                  #9
                  This theory is built on a false premise. Right here:

                  Originally posted by BigBadBrian


                  In order to understand this, we need to first have a working definition of the term "support the troops." Presumably it means that one supports what the troops are doing and rooting for them to succeed. What else could "support the troops" mean? If you say, for example, that you support the Yankees or the Dodgers, we assume it means you want them to win.


                  Link
                  The presumption is wrong (or, if not wrong, built on a matter of opinion on what "success" means).

                  What else could "support the troops" mean? It could mean that they are ordered to fight in and for noble causes, that they uphold the best standards emerging from our political appointees, that they are led by able and a caring secretary of defense who will equip them with the best armor, and the safest ammunition that won't wind up getting them sick upon their return (google "depleted uranium").

                  The very next sentence compares the reponsibilities of our troops to baseball teams. That to me SCREAMS that the writer of this op-ed is the one who has a fundamental flaw in their understanding of what is happening half the world away. This is not a game. There is no next season for our troops who die. This is not about winning the World Series and having a big fucking parade for the champions.

                  It's about realizing that these are human lives, and appreciating that even for the survivors, their lives will forever be altered from their experieinces fighting for a war that had its intelligence designed and built aftre the fact.

                  Comment

                  • LoungeMachine
                    DIAMOND STATUS
                    • Jul 2004
                    • 32576

                    #10
                    Let me paint a picture for you.

                    Brian saw this piece, KNEW it was neo-con bullshit, and sat back with a wide ass grin.

                    "God", sad Brain to himself, "this will have Lounge, A/P, Nick, and the rest of 'em frothing at the mouth"

                    He posted this to push our buttons for HIS amusement.

                    And as always, we took the bait.


                    Well Done, Bri.
                    Originally posted by Kristy
                    Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
                    Originally posted by cadaverdog
                    I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

                    Comment

                    • academic punk
                      Full Member Status

                      • Dec 2004
                      • 4437

                      #11
                      I don't feel like I took the bait. I rejected it.

                      It was a lousy piece written by some Hannity-wanna-be. I don't go for "worms". Bait me with a valid premise and argument, and I'll appreciate the challenge, as well as maybe learn of a valid new perspective.

                      Comment

                      • Va Beach VH Fan
                        ROTH ARMY FOUNDER
                        • Dec 2003
                        • 17913

                        #12
                        Once again, there's a difference between supporting the troops and disagreeing with the policy....
                        Eat Us And Smile - The Originals

                        "I have a very belligerent enthusiasm or an enthusiastic belligerence. I’m an intellectual slut." - David Lee Roth

                        "We are part of the, not just the culture, but the geography. Van Halen music goes along with like fries with the burger." - David Lee Roth

                        Comment

                        • LoungeMachine
                          DIAMOND STATUS
                          • Jul 2004
                          • 32576

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
                          Once again, there's a difference between supporting the troops and disagreeing with the policy....
                          THIS from a VET

                          Thanks VA.

                          It's nice to know some of us Libs aren't painted with the same brush.



                          Originally posted by Kristy
                          Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
                          Originally posted by cadaverdog
                          I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

                          Comment

                          • Serling
                            Groupie
                            • Jul 2005
                            • 62

                            #14
                            A well spun piece of Propaganda.

                            Wouldn't "supporting" the troops include:

                            A.) Seeing that they have the proper armaments & protection.

                            B.) Making sure the brave Men & Women of the armed services get the best possible medical care and insurance coverage possible, especially those maimed &/or disabled in service to their country.

                            Now, who's "really" not supporting the troops?

                            Comment

                            • LoungeMachine
                              DIAMOND STATUS
                              • Jul 2004
                              • 32576

                              #15
                              Originally posted by academic punk


                              I don't go for "worms". Bait me with a valid premise and argument, and I'll appreciate the challenge,

                              We all know what "bait" you go for

                              Anything with a hardshell over 90 years old
                              Originally posted by Kristy
                              Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
                              Originally posted by cadaverdog
                              I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

                              Comment

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