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LoungeMachine
07-26-2005, 08:05 PM
Pentagon Creating Student Database
Recruiting Tool For Military Raises Privacy Concerns

By Jonathan Krim
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, June 23, 2005; Page A01

The Defense Department began working yesterday with a private marketing firm to create a database of high school students ages 16 to 18 and all college students to help the military identify potential recruits in a time of dwindling enlistment in some branches.

The program is provoking a furor among privacy advocates. The new database will include personal information including birth dates, Social Security numbers, e-mail addresses, grade-point averages, ethnicity and what subjects the students are studying.


Pentagon Says It Wants Accurate Student Data
The Pentagon yesterday released additional details about a program to compile a database of personal information on U.S. students to help bolster recruitment, saying that 12 million names currently are on file and that collection efforts have been going on for some time.


Privacy
An entire industry has mushroomed during the past decade because of the ability of companies to gather and make sense of public records, criminal histories and other electronic details. What are they doing with it?


The data will be managed by BeNow Inc. of Wakefield, Mass., one of many marketing firms that use computers to analyze large amounts of data to target potential customers based on their personal profiles and habits.

"The purpose of the system . . . is to provide a single central facility within the Department of Defense to compile, process and distribute files of individuals who meet age and minimum school requirements for military service," according to the official notice of the program.

Privacy advocates said the plan appeared to be an effort to circumvent laws that restrict the government's right to collect or hold citizen information by turning to private firms to do the work.

School systems that fail to provide that information risk losing federal funds, although individual parents or students can withhold information that would be transferred to the military by their districts. John Moriarty, president of the PTA at Walter Johnson High School in Bethesda, said the issue has "generated a great deal of angst" among many parents participating in an e-mail discussion group.

Under the new system, additional data will be collected from commercial data brokers, state drivers' license records and other sources, including information already held by the military.

"Using multiple sources allows the compilation of a more complete list of eligible candidates to join the military," according to written statements provided by Pentagon spokeswoman Lt. Col. Ellen Krenke in response to questions. "This program is important because it helps bolster the effectiveness of all the services' recruiting and retention efforts."

The Pentagon's statements added that anyone can "opt out" of the system by providing detailed personal information that will be kept in a separate "suppression file." That file will be matched with the full database regularly to ensure that those who do not wish to be contacted are not, according to the Pentagon.

But privacy advocates said using database marketers for military recruitment is inappropriate.

"We support the U.S. armed forces, and understand that DoD faces serious challenges in recruiting for the military," a coalition of privacy groups wrote to the Pentagon after notice of the program was published in the Federal Register a month ago. "But . . . the collection of this information is not consistent with the Privacy Act, which was passed by Congress to reduce the government's collection of personal information on Americans."

Chris Jay Hoofnagle, West Coast director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, called the system "an audacious plan to target-market kids, as young as 16, for military solicitation."

He added that collecting Social Security numbers was not only unnecessary but posed a needless risk of identity fraud. Theft of Social Security numbers and other personal information from data brokers, government agencies, financial institutions and other companies is rampant.

"What's ironic is that the private sector has ways of uniquely identifying individuals without using Social Security numbers for marketing," he said.

The Pentagon statements said the military is "acutely aware of the substantial security required to protect personal data," and that Social Security numbers will be used only to "provide a higher degree of accuracy in matching duplicate data records."

The Pentagon said it routinely monitors its vendors to ensure compliance with its security standards.

Krenke said she did not know how much the contract with BeNow was worth, or whether it was bid competitively.

Officials at BeNow did not return several messages seeking comment. The company's Web site does not have a published privacy policy, nor does it list either a chief privacy officer or security officer on its executive team.

According to the Federal Register notice, the data will be open to "those who require the records in the performance of their official duties." It said the data would be protected by passwords.

The system also gives the Pentagon the right, without notifying citizens, to share the data for numerous uses outside the military, including with law enforcement, state tax authorities and Congress.

Some see the program as part of a growing encroachment of government into private lives, particularly since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

"It's just typical of how voracious government is when it comes to personal information," said James W. Harper, a privacy expert with the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank. "Defense is an area where government has a legitimate responsibility . . . but there are a lot of data fields they don't need and shouldn't be keeping. Ethnicity strikes me as particularly inappropriate."

Yesterday, the New York Times reported that the Social Security Administration relaxed its privacy policies and provided data on citizens to the FBI in connection with terrorism investigations.

Some information on high school students already is given to military recruiters in a separate program under provisions of the 2002 No Child Left Behind Act. Recruiters have been using the information to contact students at home, angering some parents and school districts around the country

academic punk
07-26-2005, 10:26 PM
With all of the non-stop pressure and harrasment that recruiters will now employ, maybe they should change the name of the program to "No Child Left Alone"?

Seshmeister
07-26-2005, 11:26 PM
Well if this doesn't work it'll be the draft.

ODShowtime
07-27-2005, 07:45 AM
I was at the beach the other day and air force recruiters were walking around and annoying the shit out of people.

What do you expect? They're desperate. That's what happens when you break commitments to people and no one trusts you anymore. It's as simple as that. Integrity is an important commodity.

Seshmeister
07-27-2005, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
I was at the beach the other day and air force recruiters were walking around and annoying the shit out of people.


Do they have any power?

Can you just say "Fuck off" to them?

academic punk
07-27-2005, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
I was at the beach the other day and air force recruiters were walking around and annoying the shit out of people.

What do you expect? They're desperate. That's what happens when you break commitments to people and no one trusts you anymore. It's as simple as that. Integrity is an important commodity.


What the hell beach were you at??? Normandy???

FORD
07-27-2005, 10:14 AM
Next time you see those recruiters on the beach, send em to a college campus and tell them to look for the "College Republicans".

If those little fucks are "man enough" to rough up protestors in a crowd on the orders of Ann the Man, then they should have no problem putting their rich spoiled asses on the line for PNAC's war.

academic punk
07-27-2005, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by FORD
Next time you see those recruiters on the beach, send em to a college campus and tell them to look for the "College Republicans".

If those little fucks are "man enough" to rough up protestors in a crowd on the orders of Ann the Man, then they should have no problem putting their rich spoiled asses on the line for PNAC's war.


Unfortunately, FORD, like our esteemed VP, odds are these individuals will have "other priorities" to attend to.

Guitar Shark
07-27-2005, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by academic punk
Unfortunately, FORD, like our esteemed VP, odds are these individuals will have "other priorities" to attend to.

Yes. It can often take months, even years, to find the right bow tie.

academic punk
07-27-2005, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Yes. It can often take months, even years, to find the right bow tie.

And sneer! Don't forget the condescending, smug sneer!

FORD
07-27-2005, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Yes. It can often take months, even years, to find the right bow tie.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/ALLPOLITICS/blog/10/05/carlson.blog/story.carlson.jpg
Apparently, Tucker Carlson is still looking....

Guitar Shark
07-27-2005, 11:35 AM
He's exactly who I had in mind when I wrote that. :D

Guitar Shark
07-27-2005, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Do they have any power?

Can you just say "Fuck off" to them?

No power and yeah you can tell them to fuck off.

Nickdfresh
07-27-2005, 11:42 AM
They certainly have no problem sacrificing other peoples' asses. It's funny how supporting our troops means supporting the peons in the middle classes to those tools.

You can just feel the seething smugness and sense the thinly veiled condescending attitude behind the phoney, pseudo-patriotic mask.

worldbefree
07-27-2005, 11:51 AM
Bush should set an example for the nation and the world that he's serious about about all americans being involved in fighting the war on terror and encourage his two daughters to enlist in the service.

Cathedral
07-27-2005, 12:30 PM
I don't see a problem here.
I got calls out the ass until they turned me down when i was 18.

So what, parents are pissed off that their kids are getting calls from recruiters?
Last i checked, it was still a volunteer service and everyone still has the right to say, NO THANKS!

As far as personal information goes, they had it all on me in the late 70's so what is different now?

I think the service is a great way to get spoiled kids heads out of their asses and teach them responsibility.
Of all the friends i have that have served and are serving, it was the one thing they did to get their lives on track, and i needed it just as bad.

It seems to me that parents are just scared of the possible decision their kids will make, but at age 18, it becomes their life to guide and the parents no longer have a voice.

If recruiters were yanking kids off the street and throwing them into a bus headed for boot camp against their will, that's one thing.

But that isn't the case, they can just say No Thanks and persue their own destiny as they wish.

Bluto Blutarsky
07-27-2005, 12:37 PM
The spoiled kids don't join. I bet the recruiters don't even waste their time with the monied brats. They're after the penniless and desperate for college money demographic. Speaking of profiling.

LoungeMachine
07-27-2005, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by Bluto Blutarsky
The spoiled kids don't join. I bet the recruiters don't even waste their time with the monied brats. They're after the penniless and desperate for college money demographic. Speaking of profiling.

Hello Senator

Seshmeister
07-27-2005, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by Cathedral
I don't see a problem here.
I got calls out the ass until they turned me down when i was 18.

So what, parents are pissed off that their kids are getting calls from recruiters?
Last i checked, it was still a volunteer service and everyone still has the right to say, NO THANKS!

As far as personal information goes, they had it all on me in the late 70's so what is different now?

I think the service is a great way to get spoiled kids heads out of their asses and teach them responsibility.
Of all the friends i have that have served and are serving, it was the one thing they did to get their lives on track, and i needed it just as bad.

It seems to me that parents are just scared of the possible decision their kids will make, but at age 18, it becomes their life to guide and the parents no longer have a voice.

If recruiters were yanking kids off the street and throwing them into a bus headed for boot camp against their will, that's one thing.

But that isn't the case, they can just say No Thanks and persue their own destiny as they wish.

So you'd be pleased if they pursuaded your daughter to go to Iraq?

BigBadBrian
07-27-2005, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
No power and yeah you can tell them to fuck off.

True enough, but usually a simple no will do. They have tons of leads to chase.

I've known a few recruiters in my time. Incredible pressure. Deadlines. Quotas. Your career is on the line.

Amazingly enough, these recruiters are on their "easy" duty. That would be shore duty for Navy guys and stateside easy duty for Marines, Army, and Air Force guys.

So much for "Support the Troops" when you tell them to "Fuck Off."
A month or two later that sergeant you told to go piss off could be dodging bullets in the Sunni Triangle.

:gulp:

Guitar Shark
07-27-2005, 05:45 PM
Brian I was only answering the specific question asked. I would never actually say that.

Nickdfresh
07-27-2005, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
True enough, but usually a simple no will do. They have tons of leads to chase.

I've known a few recruiters in my time. Incredible pressure. Deadlines. Quotas. Your career is on the line.

Amazingly enough, these recruiters are on their "easy" duty. That would be shore duty for Navy guys and stateside easy duty for Marines, Army, and Air Force guys.

So much for "Support the Troops" when you tell them to "Fuck Off."
A month or two later that sergeant you told to go piss off could be dodging bullets in the Sunni Triangle.

:gulp:

Yeah well, I've known some recruiters that were incredible scumbags, like one thirty-something ARMY SGT. that knocked up the girl he recruited (into the Army Reserve) fresh out of highschool, then used her as his maid and squaw (after getting her thrown out of her house)...

A lot of these guys needed Ethics Training for a reason.

BigBadBrian
07-27-2005, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Brian I was only answering the specific question asked. I would never actually say that.

I didn't think you would.

:gulp:

BigBadBrian
07-27-2005, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Yeah well, I've known some recruiters that were incredible scumbags, like one thirty-something ARMY SGT. that knocked up the girl he recruited (into the Army Reserve) fresh out of highschool, then used her as his maid and squaw (after getting her thrown out of her house)...

A lot of these guys needed Ethics Training for a reason.

OK, the dude was a scumbag. Punish accordingly.

Seshmeister
07-27-2005, 06:50 PM
Maybe if the troops were treated decently, had reasonable lengths of tours and weren't used in illegal wars self serving to tiny minority of the rich, then it wouldn't be so hard to find recruits.

ODShowtime
07-27-2005, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Maybe if the troops were treated decently, had reasonable lengths of tours and weren't used in illegal wars self serving to tiny minority of the rich, then it wouldn't be so hard to find recruits.

The bottom line is these people signed contracts that are being broken by the government. These people put their lives on hold and now after having their tours extended, they have nothing to come back to! Job gone, maybe wife gone...

Who would you sign a contract when you can see the same contract is being broken? Only a fool would! Or someone who desperately needs money.

I'm all for recruitment, and I agree with Cat that some people get a hell of a lot out of the armed forces. I also understand what BBB said about the pressure these guys face. It's best to just blame this mess on gw&friends since it's their fault.

Seshmeister
07-28-2005, 01:24 AM
The US has far too many troops and spends way to much on 'defense'.

You need some politicians to have the guts to say that before you end up owned by China.

Cathedral
07-28-2005, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
So you'd be pleased if they pursuaded your daughter to go to Iraq?

I may have been the wrong person to ask that question, Sesh.

I wanted to join real bad when they turned me down, and i've been pissed ever since because it was the end of a family legacy that every generation of my family served in the military.

Neither of my two brothers joined so it fell on me, and it was by choice.

Now as far as my daughter is concerned, she can direct her own life however she chooses.
If she wanted to join i certainly wouldn't like the idea, but i'd support HER decision to do so.

We have discussed this too, and right now she has no intentions of joining any service. But she termed it as "I'm not joining any war where i have to hurt people".

That may change, but i can guarentee that she isn't the military type at present.
Her friend up the street though, she wants to serve because her Daddy is in Iraq right now.

But, I would support whatever she wants to do with her life.
I didn't care for people guiding my life for me so i won't ever do that to her.
As long as she is happy with her choices i will be there for her however i possibly can.

What else can i do?
I know all too well that kids do the exact opposite of what their parents want them to do, i did.
So if i try telling her what to do when she is of legal age that will only push her to rebell.

I won't like it, but i know my place in my childs life and i'll know it when she is old enough to make decisions like this.

Our kids are our children, not our possessions.

Cathedral
07-28-2005, 02:03 AM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
The bottom line is these people signed contracts that are being broken by the government. These people put their lives on hold and now after having their tours extended, they have nothing to come back to! Job gone, maybe wife gone...

Who would you sign a contract when you can see the same contract is being broken? Only a fool would! Or someone who desperately needs money.

I'm all for recruitment, and I agree with Cat that some people get a hell of a lot out of the armed forces. I also understand what BBB said about the pressure these guys face. It's best to just blame this mess on gw&friends since it's their fault.

It's true, some people need the discipline and direction a life of service provides.

It just isn't everyone's cup of tea.

For instance, of all the friends i have that have been and gone from the service, 1 guy didn't have the mustard.

He was a discipline problem from day 1.
He couldn't get out of bed in the morning, had to be woken by the Sarge, lol.
He was always last in line and a slacker.

He made it through 8 weeks of Basic before they sent him home because he just wasn't a soldier.

But i give the guy a hell of a lot of credit for trying, because he did try very hard to make it.
He manages a Burger King today, been divorced twice, 4 kids and a new wife that is a total cunt.

Then there is Chris...
Total druggie, stealing shit at night out of cars, sleeping with anything and everything, just a total waste of youth and he had no ambition in life at all.
Then he got busted breaking into a car and was faced with a decision the judge gave him to make.
5 years for B&E, or join the service.

In one year that boy was transformed into the most disciplined and honorable person i think i have ever met.
He's done absolutely awesome since then and he owes it to the service that saved him from who knows what.

It isn't for everyone, but for some it is a life saver.

Seshmeister
07-28-2005, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by Cathedral
Then there is Chris...
Total druggie, stealing shit at night out of cars, sleeping with anything and everything, just a total waste of youth and he had no ambition in life at all.
Then he got busted breaking into a car and was faced with a decision the judge gave him to make.
5 years for B&E, or join the service.

In one year that boy was transformed into the most disciplined and honorable person i think i have ever met.
He's done absolutely awesome since then and he owes it to the service that saved him from who knows what.



The judge obviously recognised he had the perfect credentials for stealing oil in Iraq...:)

Nickdfresh
07-28-2005, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
The US has far too many troops and spends way to much on 'defense'.

You need some politicians to have the guts to say that before you end up owned by China.

Actually, as far as sheer numbers of soldiers' ratio to the overall population, we don't have that many troops. What we do have is a huge budget and massive waste due to Rumsfeld's pet project "Reorganization." This is because RUMMY has switched many duties that were on once cheaply performed by ordinary soldiers to highly payed civilian cuntractors.

Also, the huge black budget we are spending billions on for the control of space seems to be a bit of a waste if China cuntrols terra firma, eh?

ODShowtime
07-28-2005, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
This is because RUMMY has switched many duties that were on once cheaply performed by ordinary soldiers to highly payed civilian cuntractors.


gw&friends 101: reduce the number of troops on the ground that they have to report, at the same time raise costs going to Halliburton&friends. PERFECT

I'm sorry I'm such an asshole, but if you don't see what's going on, you're an idiot!

Cathedral
07-28-2005, 09:01 PM
You're not an asshole, OD.
It's just hard to see the forest through the Bush, lmmfao.

Where did that come from?

ODShowtime
07-28-2005, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by Cathedral
You're not an asshole, OD.
It's just hard to see the forest through the Bush, lmmfao.

Where did that come from?

:D

The asshole comment? I'm always calling people stupid, and I know it alienates people, but I can't help it!!!!