PDA

View Full Version : Shuttle Fleet is Grounded



worldbefree
07-27-2005, 06:37 PM
The new directive doesn't do much good for the astronauts in orbit.

NASA Says Foam Insulation Flew Off Shuttle

By MARCIA DUNN, AP Aerospace Writer 45 minutes ago

NASA said Wednesday that the mysterious object that came flying off the shuttle Discovery's fuel tank during liftoff was a sizable chunk of foam insulation — the very thing that doomed Columbia.

But this time, fortunately, it didn't hit the spacecraft.

Space agency officials also said that a chipped thermal tile on Discovery's belly does not appear to be a danger, and it cautioned the public against overreacting to every speck of damage sustained by the shuttle during liftoff.

NASA expected some debris to fall off during launch. The big question is whether any of it will mean a risk to the crew. The answer is still a few days away, NASA said one day after the ship blasted off on the first shuttle mission since the Columbia tragedy 2 1/2 years ago.

Flight director Paul Hill said it is understandable that people inside and outside the space agency might be alarmed by any hint of damage to Discovery's thermal shielding.

"The last flight ended in catastrophe and we lost seven friends of ours because of damage," Hill said at a news conference. But he added: "We don't make decisions in spaceflight based on that type of emotion. We make decisions in spaceflight based on the data, and we're looking at the data."

And based on what they have seen so far, NASA engineers believe the broken tile is "not going to be an issue," Hill said.

Imagery experts and engineers expect to know by Thursday afternoon whether the gouge left by the missing 1 1/2-inch piece of thermal tile needs a second look or, in the worst case, a repair, Hill said. The astronauts have a 100-foot, laser-tipped crane on board that could determine precisely how deep the gouge is.

The tile fragment broke off less than two minutes after liftoff Tuesday and was spotted by a camera mounted on the external fuel tank. It fell off a particularly vulnerable spot, near the set of doors for the nose landing gear.

Multiple cameras also captured the chunk of foam flying off the tank but missing the shuttle. It broke away from a different part of the tank than the piece that mortally wounded Columbia by striking its wing. After the accident, the tank was redesigned to reduce the risk of foam insulation falling off.

If NASA decides to use its new inspection tool to get a 3-D view of the tile damage, the astronauts will examine the spot on Friday, a day after docking with the international space station.

On Wednesday, Discovery's astronauts spent nearly six hours using the boom to inspect Discovery's wings and nose cap for launch damage. The wings and nose are protected by reinforced carbon panels capable of taking the brunt of the searing re-entry heat.

Hill said he saw nothing immediately alarming during the laser inspection, which had been planned long before any damage to Discovery was detected. But NASA's experts have yet to fully analyze the images.

The inspection was conducted in extra-slow motion, a mere three feet per minute, to give engineers a good long look. The boom came within five feet of the shuttle's wings and nose cap.

The astronauts had to be careful not to bang the equipment into the fragile thermal panels and cause the kind of disaster the boom was designed to prevent. The task required such precision that three of the astronauts took turns performing the grueling job.

NASA should have a better grasp of the tile damage after the two space station residents photograph the approaching Discovery on Thursday. Discovery will do a slow back flip 600 feet out, so the station astronauts can zoom in on the shuttle's belly. This unprecedented maneuver was also planned long before the flight.

The photos taken from the space station should be so good that "you will almost be able to read the serial numbers on the tiles," Hill said.

After that, if the imagery experts and engineers want even more data on the broken tile, Hill said, "then by God we're going to take the (boom) down and we're going to get them more data and that data are going to look like they were sitting right there in front of the tile with their hands on it, it's going to be so good."

NASA does not expect to make a final decision until Sunday or so on whether Discovery can safely return to Earth. That is how long it will take to analyze all the data from the more than 100 cameras that tracked the liftoff, scores of sensors embedded in the shuttle wings, the laser inspection, and pictures from space.

Top NASA managers have stressed for months that they would probably see more debris than usual falling from Discovery simply because they would be looking harder this time.

Hill also reminded reporters that space shuttles have frequently landed with tile damage over the past 24 years. The seriousness depends on how deep the gouges are and how thick the tile is in the affected area, he said.

Deputy shuttle program manager Wayne Hale portrayed the current analysis as vastly superior to what took place during Columbia's mission in 2003. A chunk of fuel-tank foam insulation pierced Columbia's wing at liftoff and left a plate-size hole that proved fatal during re-entry two weeks later.

"A few people looked at the pictures, a few people ran some small analysis that wasn't grounded in much real science and came to the wrong conclusion," Hale said. This time, he said, hundreds of people are examining every frame of the video, and NASA management is focusing on whether the shuttle is safe to return.

___

On the Net:

NASA: http://spaceflight.nasa.gov

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050727/ap_on_sc/space_shuttle_77&printer=1;_ylt=AkbxtOZkAvamCWPL66L1rIVxieAA;_ylu=X 3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-

Seshmeister
07-27-2005, 06:57 PM
Why can't they do it anymore?

worldbefree
07-27-2005, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Why can't they do it anymore?

They just announced that NASA has grounded the shuttle fleet until they can determine why shit keeps falling off on take-off..

Cathedral
07-27-2005, 09:53 PM
If Discovery burns up returning home NASA will be history, or at least major portions of the funding will be gone for sure.

What freaks me out is how the crew is taking all of this in.
They know what happened last time, they know why it happened last time.
But what they don't know is what is going to happen to them at this point.

That has got to be playing on their minds a little, and will more and more as the return trip gets closer and closer.

I just hope and pray things go well, because with the way NASA has been acting the entire last week with this launch, i started to get the impression that they were growing impatient and just wanted to get the thing launched.

Tragedy this time around will devastate the entire program.

I do however find it ironic that the fleet has been grounded at this point. Almost as if the Discovery isn't flying around up there.

Go figure!

worldbefree
07-27-2005, 11:27 PM
They supposedly have a contingency plan although they aren't saying what it is.. I can't imagine what that is other then leaving the astronauts on the space station, even there is even enough room for all of them. forget about supplies.

Not a good day to be in orbit...

diamondD
07-27-2005, 11:50 PM
I don't think it's as bad as it seems. They've all been hit on takeoff before. It's just so much more magnified with the cameras.

Unchainme
07-28-2005, 12:14 AM
http://members.nova.org/~sol/station/x33-comp.jpg

This is The Next Gen Shuttle proposed and being tested at Lockheed Martin. This is what NASA needs to get this ASAP, The Shuttles are Waaayyyy to old.

Seshmeister
07-28-2005, 01:19 AM
But they rebuild them every 10 years...

Cathedral
07-28-2005, 01:23 AM
I'm just thinking that it has to play into their psychology a little bit.
Now that they are there, they have to come home.

I personally don't think there will be any problems, but i do wonder about what the crew is thinking after examining the shuttle with that boom and finding a broken plate near the front wheel opening.

That has to make them nervous, whether they are showing it or not.

I just dug out an old model kit i bought a long fucking time ago of the Challenger.
When this kit was made, Challenger was still in the rotation, so fuck yeah, the shuttles are out dated and old as fuck for doing what they have been doing with them.

Even still, I'd love to take the trip into orbit so i can look back at the earth in awe.

Cathedral
07-28-2005, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
But they rebuild them every 10 years...


Isn't that like using a condom 10 times before getting a new one?

LMMFAO...............

Nickdfresh
07-28-2005, 11:21 AM
Discovery docks with space station
Future shuttle flights on hold

Thursday, July 28, 2005; Posted: 9:55 a.m. EDT (13:55 GMT)
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/TECH/space/07/28/space.shuttle/story.onboard.jpghttp://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/TECH/space/07/28/space.shuttle/top.shuttle.tile.view.jpg
(CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/space/07/28/space.shuttle/index.html)) -- Discovery docked with the international space station Thursday as NASA tried to determine why insulating foam fell off the shuttle's external fuel tank during its launch.

The shuttle-station rendezvous at 7:18 a.m. ET was the first since November 2002, NASA said. Shortly afterward, a connecting hatch was opened and both crews greeted each other with hugs and smiles.

Discovery flew in an unusual upside-down maneuver before it docked so space station cameras with special lenses could take pictures of it, looking for possible damage.

The images were sent from the station to NASA engineers on Earth, who will scrutinize Discovery's surface tiles and its thermal-protection system, explained Wayne Hale, deputy shuttle program manager.

"Any damage will not escape our detection," Hale said at a Wednesday news conference. NASA said that during launch, a piece of tile also fell from Discovery's underside near the forward landing gear -- an area that has a redundant thermal barrier.

Falling foam from Columbia's external fuel tank during launch in 2003 was blamed for damaging the spacecraft, which led to the deaths of seven crew members when Columbia attempted to return to Earth. Discovery is the first shuttle launch since that tragedy.

The piece of foam fell from Discovery's fuel tank during the shuttle's ascent into orbit on Tuesday. But unlike the Columbia incident, it did not strike the orbiter. Several smaller pieces also tore away, a NASA spokesman said.

Discovery's crew is in no apparent danger, but NASA said Wednesday it won't launch any more shuttles until engineers solve the problem of foam falling from the fuel tank.

NASA Administrator Michael Griffin said Thursday that the foam problem will be solved.

"We're very fortunate that Discovery appears not to have been damaged by this piece of foam and we're going to fix that before we fly the shuttle again," Griffin said on CNN's "American Morning."

"The team has worked hard, very hard, for two-and-a-half years to get the tank to be absolutely as clean is it can be. We missed this one."

Hale said the foam that fell off the tank is from 24 to 33 inches long, 10 to 14 inches wide, and 2.5 to almost 8 inches thick -- only slightly smaller than the piece of foam that damaged Columbia's wing.

Over the next four to five days, engineers "will come up with a fly-home as-is recommendation, or a repair recommendation, as required," Hale said.

Shuttle crew members plan to test repair techniques during three space walks by astronauts Steve Robinson and Soichi Noguchi of Japan. The two also plan to service the space station.

Since Columbia, NASA has developed contingency plans for astronauts to try to repair damaged shuttles so they can return to Earth. If a spacecraft cannot be repaired, plans call for the crew to take refuge in the space station until a rescue mission can be launched.

Discovery is due to return to Kennedy Space Center August 7.

CNN's Miles O'Brien, Marsha Walton and Kate Tobin contributed to this report.

bobgnote
07-28-2005, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by Unchainme
http://members.nova.org/~sol/station/x33-comp.jpg

This is The Next Gen Shuttle proposed and being tested at Lockheed Martin. This is what NASA needs to get this ASAP, The Shuttles are Waaayyyy to old.

What is WORSE, I had a candidate for the Rutan-style piggyback type thing way back in 1986, THAT WORKS BETTER THAN RUTAN'S 2004 CRAFT, and I couldn't get the locals OR the national level agancies and companies to talk to me.

Something's rolling around on the deck, re this.

And Americans can DIE, for ignoring this problem. But hey, you guys seem to think you can bleed all over DAVID LEE ROTH to get him back with Ed the Organist, and that will somehow make rock music.

NEVER DID, NEVER WILL MAKE ROCK MUSIC, WITH THOSE FAKES.

Dave can work it, but he needs to bust out of his pocket. You know what that takes, don't you? IT TAKES RESOLVE, to go back on Dave's Bill and Ted days, and all the punks he's had to put up with.

Seems like a no-brainer to me, but Dave has a club-tour going. He could go right back to stadia and shut Ed and Alex and Sam and whoever right up, for good. But Dave is the guy with the corporate agenda. Those are more COMPLICATED than you guys admit.

NASA likes to run missions in Dec. and Jan., never mind Morton-Thiokol's STANDING operating instructions, to scrub below 40 degrees.

HEY. The foam can loosen if water freezes, melts, shifts, refreezes. NASA just uses this to kill sheep now and then.

The NEW foam on the tank was supposed to work. Sorry. The airflow involved in shoving all that old crap into space so the takeoffs can do hokeypokey science non-tasks or military-corporate surveillance tasks rips foam off the tank, apparently, even the NEW type foam.

The shuttle design is bogus, to keep rocket-punks in punk jobs, when something better was all good to go, LONG AGO. O'Keefe was another Catholic over-extension, that shows how 'Catholic' has got to GO, now, so we can get rid of 'KLEPTO' creed, that spins off this false faith, in the US and everywhare it invades and spawns, without fail.

Rock ripoffs, carthieves in NY getting whacked, NASA, the kid sees dead people, I see those too, but meanwhile, checkout the RIPOFFS, wherever, and the way that NASA foam just tears right off and hurtles.

LoungeMachine
07-28-2005, 08:04 PM
How fucked up is it to be UP THERE and hear....." oh by the way, we're not sending anyone else up until further notice, it's just too fucking risky"

HOLY SHIT

Why not wait until I LAND before you announce to the world we're grounded?????

It's not like anyone was warming up on the launchpad for Christ's sake

Nickdfresh
08-01-2005, 08:48 AM
August 1, 2005

Shuttle May Get Repair in Space
Protruding 'gap fillers' on Discovery could cause excessive heating during reentry. Any fix would have to be made during a spacewalk.

By John Johnson Jr., Times (http://www.latimes.com/la-sci-shuttle1aug01,0,5823180.story?page=1&coll=la-home-headlines) Staff Writer

HOUSTON — Concern over two protruding pieces of heatresistant fabric on the underside of Discovery prompted NASA on Sunday to consider a first-ever in-flight shuttle repair that would require a spacewalk.

Paul Hill, flight director for the 114th shuttle mission, said an engineering team of aeroheating specialists expected to have a recommendation today on whether an astronaut would be sent out with a hacksaw to trim off the pieces of fabric, known as "gap fillers."

"We have viewed the options from pulling the gap fillers out to trimming the gap fillers to putting [them] back down into the gap," Hill said.

Thousands of gap fillers — made of a flexible, ceramic-coated material about as thick as a credit card — are placed between the heat-resistant tiles covering the shuttle.

Two of them near the front landing-gear door are sticking out as much as 1.1 inches, well beyond the quarter-inch allowed by engineers.

The concern is that even a small protrusion could disrupt airflow under the extreme conditions of reentry, increasing the heating just behind the protrusions by nearly 600 degrees Fahrenheit. That could render the surface hot enough to threaten the integrity of tiles protecting the spacecraft.

Protruding gap fillers have been observed on previous flights, but always after the shuttle has landed. This time, dozens of new sensors and cameras installed after the destruction of the shuttle Columbia on reentry 2 1/2 years ago have allowed engineers to see damage while the craft is in orbit.

If NASA managers decide to fix the problem, an astronaut will have to be carried on Discovery's or the space station's robotic arm to the underside of the shuttle.

The repair itself would not be difficult. Since the gap fillers are bonded to the vehicle with glue, they could be pulled out.

The problem is that no spacewalk procedure is completely safe. One to perform this kind of repair was not practiced during the years that the crew trained for the mission, although Discovery does carry "EVA scissors," a special hacksaw-like device provided for this eventuality.

Engineers and aerodynamicists are working overtime to come up with a recommendation. "They're pressing decades of study into two days," said N. Wayne Hale Jr., deputy shuttle program manager.

He said engineers were keeping in mind the famous remark by former astronaut John Young: "There's not anything that happens to the shuttle that you can't make worse by trying."

The protruding gap fillers are in a particularly sensitive area. Temperatures can reach 2,300 degrees in that area as the craft uses the Earth's atmosphere to brake from 17,500 mph to a safe landing speed.

The silica tiles that cover most of the aircraft are not designed to withstand the most extreme heating, which is why the nose and leading edges of the wings are covered with expensive reinforced carbon panels.

The engineers could well decide to leave the craft as it is. "My immediate reaction is we can live with this," Hale said.

But if the engineers are unable to assure him that there will be no dangerous excess heating, the management team might decide to err on the side of caution and fix the problem. "Why should I lose sleep over gap fillers?" Hale said.

Hill said an unplanned fourth spacewalk to fix the gap fillers was a possibility, but he added, "I think that's a very low-likelihood case."

The more likely scenario, he said, was to repair the damage during the third spacewalk, scheduled for Wednesday. The principal job scheduled on that walk is installing a stowage platform, a kind of heated toolshed, on the space station.

There is one historical precedent for the gap filler problem on Discovery: On the STS 73 mission in 1995, a gap filler in the same general area on Columbia bulged out about 1.4 inches.

"There was some noticeable additional heating, but nothing that ultimately became a concern," said Steve Poulos, manager of the orbiter project office.

Discovery's flight has been dogged by problems, beginning the day of launch when a large piece of foam fell off the external fuel tank. Even though the foam did not hit Discovery, NASA quickly grounded the shuttle fleet pending resolution of the problem.

In succeeding days, one problem after another — from tile damage to blemishes on the reinforced carbon panels — have raised concerns. Each one, until now, was ultimately found not to be a threat to the vehicle.

The new sensors and imagers on Discovery have "literally put the orbiter thermal protection system under a microscope," Hale said.
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2005-07/18695155.jpg
This image released by NASA and taken by the crew of the International Space Station shows Discovery as it performed a back flip. The operation allowed the space station crew to photograph the underside of the orbiter to check for damage.
(NASA AFP/Getty Images)
July 28, 2005

While space agency managers on the ground debated Sunday what to do about the gap fillers, the crew had its lightest day of work so far.

The astronauts continued moving food and water to the space station in anticipation of what could be a long time before the next visit from the shuttle fleet.

Discovery's seven crew members had enough spare time to make the rounds of the morning television talk shows, where they defended the space program but also voiced concern about NASA's engineering decisions.

Some of the astronauts said they were disappointed and surprised to learn that a 3-foot piece of foam, weighing about 1 pound, had broken away from the fuel tank during liftoff.

Crew member Andrew Thomas said the engineering decisions approving liftoff must now be questioned.

"The area where the foam came up is an area that was not examined, or decisions were made not to look at it and not to test the foam there," Thomas, 53, said during an interview with NBC's "Meet the Press."

"I think we do need to address why that decision was made," added Thomas, who holds a doctorate in mechanical engineering and has been a part of three previous space missions. "Was there some technical reason why they made that decision — or was it subject to cost pressures and schedule pressures?"

The commander of Discovery, Eileen Collins, said she was aware before launch that NASA officials had decided not to retrofit the surface area from which the foam broke loose.

Both Collins and NASA Administrator Michael D. Griffin said the decision not to retrofit the area was based on X-ray and other noninvasive testing that found nothing suspicious.


Times staff writer David Willman contributed to this report.