Dean's distortions

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  • BigBadBrian
    TOASTMASTER GENERAL
    • Jan 2004
    • 10620

    Dean's distortions

    Dean's distortions
    Robert Novak


    August 18, 2005


    WASHINGTON -- Dr. Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, arrived at CBS's Washington studios Sunday with one unusual talking point for his "Face the Nation" interview clearly in mind. He claimed Iraqi women were better off under Saddam Hussein's barbarous regime than they are likely to be under the nascent democracy. In fact, he said it three times.

    "That's a terrible thing to say," one old-line Democratic loyalist told me. "But what are we going to do about him? We're stuck with him." The answer by this Democrat and many others is to ignore him, which is not easy when he is on national television.

    Iraq seems a major political liability for Republicans and an asset for Democrats. But Dean cannot resist employing the tactics that propelled a little-known former governor of Vermont to front-runner presidential nominee status in 2004 and then produced such a negative reaction that he lost every primary except Vermont's. To suggest that Saddam Hussein's rule is preferable to anything in Iraq is repellent.

    In answer to host Bob Schieffer's first question on "Face the Nation," he replied that "it looks like women will be worse off in Iraq than they were when Saddam Hussein was president of Iraq. That's a pretty sad commentary on this administration's ability to do anything right." A few moments later, he said: "If it turns out that this constitution really does take away the rights that women have enjoyed in Iraq before, then I can't imagine why we're there."

    "Well," said Schieffer, "I'll go back and ask you about that in a minute." He did not, as the interview moved to other things. But Dean went back a third time to his talking point: "The constitution looks like it may take away freedom from the Iraq people, at least half of them, instead of add it to them."

    Dean was simplifying and distorting reality. In the complicated, delayed process of drafting an Iraqi constitution, Islam surely will be recognized as the state religion. How that conflicts with women's rights is one issue being hashed out.

    The drafters last weekend were described by Shiite negotiator Jalel Aldin Saghir as agreeing that the constitution, while based on Islam, would guarantee women's rights. "There isn't anything in the constitution to impose religious teachings or religious laws in Iraq," Sheik Humam Hamoudi, chairman of the constituent assembly's constitutional committee, said in a news conference last week. Contrary to Dean, U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad is pressing Iraqis to protect women's rights in their constitution.

    What is so demagogic about Dean's stance is his insinuation that women were better off under the Saddam dictatorship. He is following the lead taken by Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton at the Brookings Institution on Feb. 25 last year. She quoted Iraqi women leaders as "starting to express concerns about some of the pullbacks in the rights they were given under Saddam Hussein. He was an equal opportunity oppressor, but on paper, women had rights." She contended that "as long as they stayed out of his way, they had considerable freedom of movement."

    Clinton in 2004 was not nearly so over the top as Dean in 2005, but both are contradicted by people who know the situation better than they and are not driven by partisan concerns. Nina Shea, director of the religious freedom center at Freedom House, responded to Clinton's claim: "Women's rights [under Saddam] were largely an illusion." In 1989 when the dictator was at full power, Iraqi dissident and intellectual Kanan Makiya said: "Male domination has not been done away with. It has found a substitute in the all-male Revolutionary Command Council, the higher army command and the ever-so-male person of Saddam Hussein."

    Howard Dean is not the first politician to distort facts in his own interests. But many activists in the party he now leads are puzzled over what he thinks he is accomplishing politically. Is it good politics to contend that Iraq was better off under Saddam Hussein than even a flawed Islamic republic? Does it make sense politically to tell Americans that more than 1,800 troops have died to make life worse for half of Iraq's population?

    LINK
    “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush
  • BigBadBrian
    TOASTMASTER GENERAL
    • Jan 2004
    • 10620

    #2
    Re: Dean's distortions

    Originally posted by BigBadBrian


    "That's a terrible thing to say," one old-line Democratic loyalist told me. "But what are we going to do about him? We're stuck with him." The answer by this Democrat and many others is to ignore him, which is not easy when he is on national television.

    “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

    Comment

    • Warham
      DIAMOND STATUS
      • Mar 2004
      • 14589

      #3
      Ha ha.

      Comment

      • FORD
        ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

        • Jan 2004
        • 58759

        #4
        Robert "That's Bullshit" Novak, Traitorous Douchebag that he is, has about the equivalent credibility of a Milli Vanilli album at this point.
        Eat Us And Smile

        Cenk For America 2024!!

        Justice Democrats


        "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

        Comment

        • BigBadBrian
          TOASTMASTER GENERAL
          • Jan 2004
          • 10620

          #5
          Originally posted by FORD
          Robert "That's Bullshit" Novak, Traitorous Douchebag that he is, has about the equivalent credibility of a Milli Vanilli album at this point.
          This article is dead-on correct.

          “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

          Comment

          • FORD
            ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

            • Jan 2004
            • 58759

            #6
            Originally posted by BigBadBrian
            This article is dead-on correct.

            Actually it isn't. Fact is that neither this country OR Iraq are safer now than they were when Saddam Hussein was in power.

            Not that Saddam Hussein was a threat to this country. But the BCE fucking up so badly and pissing off the entire world certainly is.

            And as for Iraq, while Saddam himself wasn't exactly a great humanitarian, the fact is that there weren't random terrorists running around and IED's going off in the street.

            Like Yugoslavia under the Communists, it was hardly paradise, but at least it was stable. And what followed was much worse.

            Poppy Bush saw it coming, and if he wrote it in a book, you know he said it to his idiot son.

            While we hoped that popular revolt or coup would topple Saddam, neither the U.S. nor the countries of the region wished to see the breakup of the Iraqi state. We were concerned about the long-term balance of power at the head of the Gulf. Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in midstream, engaging in "mission creep," and would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible. We had been unable to find Noriega in Panama, which we knew intimately. We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting it in anger and other allies pulling out as well. Under those circumstances, furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-cold war world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the U.N.'s mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the U.S. could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different--and perhaps barren--outcome.
            Eat Us And Smile

            Cenk For America 2024!!

            Justice Democrats


            "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

            Comment

            • academic punk
              Full Member Status

              • Dec 2004
              • 4437

              #7
              Originally posted by BigBadBrian
              Dean's distortions
              Robert Novak


              August 18, 2005

              "That's a terrible thing to say," one old-line Democratic loyalist told me. "But what are we going to do about him? We're stuck with him." The answer by this Democrat and many others is to ignore him, which is not easy when he is on national television.
              Well, just who is this "old-line Democratic loyalist anyway? Or did he only speak to Novak - and isn't he a reliable source - on double super secret background??

              Or maybe it's one of the many members here who post under aliases when they have something to critical to say? Same thing: whoever this is - if he even exists - is a pansy.

              Come on. This is dumb. You can find plenty of Republicans who would say the same/similar towards Bush and his policies.
              Last edited by academic punk; 08-18-2005, 08:39 PM.

              Comment

              • FORD
                ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                • Jan 2004
                • 58759

                #8
                I was thinking it was probably Biden.

                That plagarizing, hair plug wearing, MBNA fraud enabling DLC piece of shit slams Dean at any given opportunity.
                Eat Us And Smile

                Cenk For America 2024!!

                Justice Democrats


                "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                Comment

                • academic punk
                  Full Member Status

                  • Dec 2004
                  • 4437

                  #9
                  Originally posted by FORD
                  I was thinking it was probably Biden.

                  That plagarizing, hair plug wearing, MBNA fraud enabling DLC piece of shit slams Dean at any given opportunity.
                  Dude, calling the person a "long time Democrat"...it could some buck tooth woman in Idaho with a 37 IQ!!

                  I'm supposed to give creedence to this kind of ambiguity??? FROM NOVAK OF ALL SOURCES???????

                  Comment

                  • FORD
                    ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                    • Jan 2004
                    • 58759

                    #10
                    Originally posted by academic punk
                    Dude, calling the person a "long time Democrat"...it could some buck tooth woman in Idaho with a 37 IQ!!

                    I'm supposed to give creedence to this kind of ambiguity??? FROM NOVAK OF ALL SOURCES???????
                    Katydid is a democrat? :confused:
                    Eat Us And Smile

                    Cenk For America 2024!!

                    Justice Democrats


                    "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                    Comment

                    • academic punk
                      Full Member Status

                      • Dec 2004
                      • 4437

                      #11
                      Originally posted by FORD
                      Katydid is a democrat? :confused:
                      heh heh!

                      Comment

                      • BigBadBrian
                        TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                        • Jan 2004
                        • 10620

                        #12
                        Originally posted by FORD
                        I was thinking it was probably Biden.

                        That plagarizing, hair plug wearing, MBNA fraud enabling DLC piece of shit slams Dean at any given opportunity.
                        Yeah.

                        He's looking better all the time.
                        “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

                        Comment

                        • BigBadBrian
                          TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                          • Jan 2004
                          • 10620

                          #13
                          Originally posted by academic punk
                          Dude, calling the person a "long time Democrat"...it could some buck tooth woman in Idaho with a 37 IQ!!

                          I'm supposed to give creedence to this kind of ambiguity??? FROM NOVAK OF ALL SOURCES???????

                          We wouldn't want to interrupt you worshipping at the altar of Maureen Dowd.
                          “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

                          Comment

                          • FORD
                            ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                            • Jan 2004
                            • 58759

                            #14
                            Originally posted by BigBadBrian
                            We wouldn't want to interrupt you worshipping at the altar of Maureen Dowd.
                            She's not bad for her age
                            Eat Us And Smile

                            Cenk For America 2024!!

                            Justice Democrats


                            "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                            Comment

                            • Warham
                              DIAMOND STATUS
                              • Mar 2004
                              • 14589

                              #15
                              Dean still said it (Iraqi women comment), otherwise FORD wouldn't have said the same thing in another thread. His talking points are all based on Deanisms.

                              Comment

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